C&A debate distracts from the gospel.

[Diserner]

They are right on with PSA. They predate the reformation

Yeah, they have all that bad fruit but your ONE BAD APPLE is just precious.

Isn't it.

 

[civic]

As all know I'm not a Calvinist but I still would like to believe ones like White are still precious brothers in the Lord. I have to agree with you though. It is of super great importance to be preaching the gospel properly. If it wasn't why would James 3:1 state,

"My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation." James 3:1

Not many of you should become teachers, my brothers, for you know that we who teach will be judged with greater strictness. James 3:1

I think as well there are many Bible subjects one might be wrong on but I most certainly would never want to be wrong in the way of saying God is not willing to save all sinners...I mean one is talking about potentially discouraging another that God might not even love them.....NO, no, let us never be wrong on that. God is not willing that any should perish and that's every single member of the human race.

I’m sure glad the Lord showed me the errors in my beliefs the past couple of years .

 

[civic]

Yeah, they have all that bad fruit but your ONE BAD APPLE is just precious.

Isn't it.

 

[synergy]

My biggest beeef is they claim to be the only true church and no one else outside can be saved, but also tend to hide that doctrine from people (big red flag always).

You're talking about a common human frailty. Many people, upon discovering something substantial or what they think is substantial, will automatically think that they possess the keys to salvation. It has happened to many different churches throughout man's entire history. It's God who decides who is saved and who isn't. No one else.

Weak on the sin nature—it's kinda there, but very weak.

EO could do a better job there. The early chapters of Romans shows the dire state of man and Rom 10:8-18 focuses in on the remedy.

Weak on PSA—again, it's kinda there, but very weak.

I believe that Christ's Atonement was an expiation, not a propitiation. It was out of God's love that Christ died for us and it is we who need to be changed, not God.

Strange beliefs—only triple dunked baptism saves,

I think that the EOs are emphasizing the Trinitarian nature of baptism but I agree with you that it shouldn't be the only valid form of baptism.

spiritual "toll" houses on the way to heaven,

This is not a church-wide belief. Also, I see no evidence of that in Scripture so it is a strange belief to me too.

prayer to saints, etc.

Do you mean us asking for the intercession of saints?

I think EO can be within the pale of salvation, but has very serious errors.

Even pre-Christian Gentile nations will be favorably judged by God in their zest for His laws even though they were never formerly introduced to them by anyone. (Rom 2:14-16).

 

[civic]

You're talking about a common human frailty. Many people, upon discovering something substantial or what they think is substantial, will automatically think that they possess the keys to salvation. It has happened to many different churches throughout man's entire history. It's God who decides who is saved and who isn't. No one else.

EO could do a better job there. The early chapters of Romans shows the dire state of man and Rom 10:8-18 focuses in on the remedy.

I believe that Christ's Atonement was an expiation, not a propitiation. It was out of God's love that Christ died for us and it was we who needed to be changed, not God.

I think that the EOs are emphasizing the Trinitarian nature of baptism but I agree with you that it shouldn't be the only valid form of baptism.

This is not a church-wide belief. Also, I see no evidence of that in Scripture so it is a strange belief to me too.

Do you mean us asking for the intercession of saints?

Even pre-Christian Gentile nations will be favorably judged by God in their zest for His laws even though they were never formerly introduced to them by anyone. (Rom 2:14-16).

Amen

 

[praise_yeshua]

As all know I'm not a Calvinist but I still would like to believe ones like White are still precious brothers in the Lord. I have to agree with you though. It is of super great importance to be preaching the gospel properly. If it wasn't why would James 3:1 state,

"My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation." James 3:1

Not many of you should become teachers, my brothers, for you know that we who teach will be judged with greater strictness. James 3:1

I think as well there are many Bible subjects one might be wrong on but I most certainly would never want to be wrong in the way of saying God is not willing to save all sinners...I mean one is talking about potentially discouraging another that God might not even love them.....NO, no, let us never be wrong on that. God is not willing that any should perish and that's every single member of the human race.

Absolutely. I don't push damnation on anyone that names the wonderful name of Jesus Christ.

 

[Diserner]

Even pre-Christian Gentile nations will be favorably judged by God in their zest for His laws even though they were never formerly introduced to them by anyone. (Rom 2:14-16).

I disagree that is what Romans 2 is saying.

Romans 2 leads to Romans 3 as a logical conclusion: all are guilty, whether with Law or without.

Romans 3 leads to Romans 4 as a logical conclusion: we are justified by faith not our personal holiness.

I take this passage to be talking about the role of the conscience, not a method of self-righteous Law-keeping.

 

[Diserner]

You're talking about a common human frailty. Many people, upon discovering something substantial or what they think is substantial, will automatically think that they possess the keys to salvation. It has happened to many different churches throughout man's entire history. It's God who decides who is saved and who isn't. No one else.

You're making excuses for people, it shows a strong bias.

Just a tip.

 

[synergy]

You're making excuses for people, it shows a strong bias.

Just a tip.

You just eliminated all churches. Do you go to any church?

 

[synergy]

I disagree that is what Romans 2 is saying.

Romans 2 leads to Romans 3 as a logical conclusion: all are guilty, whether with Law or without.

Romans 3 leads to Romans 4 as a logical conclusion: we are justified by faith not our personal holiness.

I take this passage to be talking about the role of the conscience, not a method of self-righteous Law-keeping.

Who said anything about justification or self-righteousness? I didn't. I said that God will judge favorably those who heartfully or conscientiously follow his commandments even though they were never formally introduced to them.

14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves,
15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them)
16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.

 

[Rockson]

I’m sure glad the Lord showed me the errors in my beliefs the past couple of years .

I'm sure God with all of us is moving on us perhaps about other Bible subjects that we need to be open to always examine what we believe and why.

 

[civic]

I'm sure God with all of us is moving on us perhaps about other Bible subjects that we need to be open to always examine what we believe and why.

Amen to that me friend

 

[praise_yeshua]

Who said anything about justification or self-righteousness? I didn't. I said that God will judge favorably those who heartfully or conscientiously follow his commandments even though they were never formally introduced to them.

14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves,
15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them)
16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.

I desire to believe this. I do. I don't know if we can accurately state this to be true.

To understand the Book of Romans.... one must understand Paul's appeal in Romans 1 to those "who knew Him as God"........ God was not kind to them. He went so far as to darken their hearts even more. Even among those who call upon the name of the Lord.... He has separated man from Himself to the degree of leaving even His own to suffer in seemingly endless weakness. It puts us in a place wherein we are endless challenged to know the sincerity of our commitment to Him.

If you start the journey of answering the question "why", I believe you will come to the conclusion that is for our own learning. We must learn our place. We must learn our frailty. We must learn that we don't know what we think we know.

In this process, those that take the position to reject God entirely ultimately become the majority of those upon the earth. When that happens, the end will come.

 

[synergy]

I desire to believe this. I do. I don't know if we can accurately state this to be true.

To understand the Book of Romans.... one must understand Paul's appeal in Romans 1 to those "who knew Him as God"........ God was not kind to them. He went so far as to darken their hearts even more. Even among those who call upon the name of the Lord.... He has separated man from Himself to the degree of leaving even His own to suffer in seemingly endless weakness. It puts us in a place wherein we are endless challenged to know the sincerity of our commitment to Him.

If you start the journey of answering the question "why", I believe you will come to the conclusion that is for our own learning. We must learn our place. We must learn our frailty. We must learn that we don't know what we think we know.

In this process, those that take the position to reject God entirely ultimately become the majority of those upon the earth. When that happens, the end will come.

Their foolish hearts were darkened because they did not glorify God even though God had revealed Himself to them in tangible ways. God was very kind to them but it was their foolish obstinence that caused their hearts to be darkened.

21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened.