Zero proof for that
Wrong, because as I have already pointed out from the text, Peter was equating what Simon was asking with the Holy Spirit Himself in Acts 8:20.
Baptism "en" the Holy Ghost
- Thread starter TomL
- Start date
Zero proof for that
Wrong, because as I have already pointed out from the text, Peter was equating what Simon was asking with the Holy Spirit Himself in Acts 8:20.
Doug Brents
Well-known member
And the Holy Spirit can be manifest in many different ways. As pointed out many times already, the Holy Spirit indwells EVERYONE who is in Christ, and everyone who is baptized into Christ is IN CHRIST. These men had the indwelling of the Spirit. You may not want to admit it because it does not fit your narrative, but it is the TRUTH.
Doug Brents
Well-known member
Yes, it is boring that you refuse to see what is in Scripture.
Post 11 refutes your confusion.
Doug Brents
Well-known member
No, it does not. There are multiple "gifts of God", and there are multiple gifts that the Spirit can give. One of the gifts of the Spirit is His indwelling the hearts of every single person who is baptized into Christ. There is no one who is in Christ who does not have the indwelling. So these men who had been baptized into Christ had the indwelling. This cannot be disputed (2 Cor 1:22, Eph 1:11-14, Rom 8:9, 16, Acts 2:38, 1 John 5:1).
Rockson
Well-known member
If I'm understanding you correctly Tom (reading from your other post too) it seems to me you're saying born again is the receiving of the Holy Spirit. Of course all Pentecostal do believe being born again is the Holy Spirit regenerating the sinner no question about that. The idea though is there's a secondary infilling for service. No offence and we can maybe agree to disagree but I think if we look at the verses right before what you quoted, from 14-16 I think we see it can't be the same thing. (I'll provide commentary in blue below)
Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God,
(OK so these people heard and received the word of God. That being something they did do I'd say must mean at that time they received eternal life) they sent unto them Peter and John: 15Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost: 16(For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.) (Now being baptized in the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ there had to be the inward grace of eternal life that was imparted. To be baptized would mean the death of the old man and the rising to life had taken place) 17Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.
So I'd say that's the secondary filling for service that the church you go to does say. God Bless!
Acts 8:20 refers to the Holy Spirit Himself.
Yes. Pentecostalism does generally believe the baptism en the holy Ghost is a second act of the Spirit. My church affiliation does not determine my belief in this regard however.
no offense will be taken
and I would say the term receiving the Spirit refers to the reception of the spirit himself - the indwellingNow when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God,
(OK so these people heard and received the word of God. That being something they did do I'd say must mean at that time they received eternal life) they sent unto them Peter and John: 15Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost: 16(For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.) (Now being baptized in the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ there had to be the inward grace of eternal life that was imparted. To be baptized would mean the death of the old man and the rising to life had taken place) 17Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.
So I'd say that's the secondary filling for service that the church you go to does say. God Bless!
John 7:37–39 (KJV 1900) — 37 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. 38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. 39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
this is indwelling
John 14:17 (ESV) — 17 even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be in you.
this is indwelling
Acts 2:38 (KJV 1900) — 38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
the gift is the Spirit himself
The gift of the spirit himself was attested to by supernatural manifestations as first the Jews had received the spirit (Acts 2), then the Samaratans (Acts 8), finally the Gentiles Acts 10).
There may in fact have been additional infillings of the Spirit, but the initial reception of the Spirit came with confirmation affirming all were to receive this gift.
And so there is no confusion all now receive the holy Spirit and are baptised into the body of Christ upon faith
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Well the term receive the spirit refers to the reception of the Spirit himself as per scriptures quoted
John 7:38–39 (KJV 1900) — 38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. 39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
this reception is the indwelling
John 14:16–17 (KJV 1900) — 16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
as is this reception
i am aware you believe water baptism is necessary for salvation but I believe the baptism en the Spirit is necessary for salvation
This baptism is what places us in the body of Christ
1 Corinthians 12:13 (KJV 1900) — 13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
The gentiles received this previous to water baptism and the Samaritans had received water baptism but had not received the spirit himself
Note the apostles came down to Samaria that they might receive the Spirit not supernatural gifts
Yes
Acts 10:47–48 (KJV 1900) — 47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
Acts 11:15–18 (KJV 1900) — 15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning. 16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost. 17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God? 18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.
This baptism en the Spirit had convinced the Jews that the gentiles were granted life
Acts 15:8–9 (KJV 1900) — 8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; 9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
The gentiles were given the Spirit
It's with the holy Spirit that one is baptized into Christ
1 Corinthians 12:13 (KJV 1900) — 13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
Can anyone seriously believe Simon was regenerate and indwelt
Acts 8:8–13 (KJV 1900) — 8 And there was great joy in that city. 9 But there was a certain man, called Simon, which beforetime in the same city used sorcery, and bewitched the people of Samaria, giving out that himself was some great one: 10 To whom they all gave heed, from the least to the greatest, saying, This man is the great power of God. 11 And to him they had regard, because that of long time he had bewitched them with sorceries. 12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. 13 Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.
Acts 8:18–23 (KJV 1900) — 18 And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles’ hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money, 19 Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost. 20 But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money. 21 Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God. 22 Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee. 23 For I perceive that thou art in the gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity.
He was water baptised
Rockson
Well-known member
There is a possibility of a few things here though. Two things. He believed and in the way we say it he did actually receive the grace of God, being born again.....on the level God could have honored his believing, so born again possibility. Out of his fleshly carnality's however he did not appreciate the horrendous statement he was making and he was rebuked sharply. On the day one is born again one can still think a lot of crazy things, and this statement of his was a GREAT ERROR.
We all might agree we've seen others we'd assess are saved for they've asked Jesus to be Lord over their lives and what do they do....they go out and commix some horrendous sin.
So I will say it is possible he was born again and the bible doesn't lead us to believe if he was it was any great length of time. Or another possibility. He believed only as far as mental assent yes and was baptized too but believing means repentance as well. . How many in our day have been baptized and YES they believed but not in a biblical sense. Water baptized? Yes. Other may have been born again who received the word of God but not necessarily him.
Grace ambassador
Well-known member
op: Baptism 'en' The Holy Spirit?:
borrowed from: Three Baptisms Rightly Divided:
In God's Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided, HE Teaches ( among others ), these:
In God's Context Of Prophecy/Covenants/Law for ISRAEL, Yesterday!:
►►► The Twelve Were Sent to {water} baptize! ◄◄◄
The TWO Main ( of 12 ) baptisms [ available upon request ]
A) water, For remission of sins/induction into Israeli "priesthood!":
(Matthew_3:5-6; Mark_1:4; Luke_3:3; John_1:31; Luke 7:29-30; Acts_10:37)
(Matthew_28:19; Mark_16:16; Acts_2:38, 22:16; Ezekiel_36:25; Isaiah 52:15)
+ [ Correct, "Christ is the baptizer" ] here:
B) WITH The Holy Spirit, Poured Out By CHRIST, for power, signs And wonders!
(Isaiah_44:3; Matthew_3:11; Mark_1:8, 16:17-18;
Luke_24:49; Acts_2:17-18, 38, 8:15-17, 11:16)
Prophecy / Covenants / Law for twelve tribes of Israel!
Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That Differ!” (online):
In God's Other Distinctive Context Of Mystery / GRACE! (Romans - Philemon) =
our "One apostle to the Gentiles" for The One Body Of CHRIST, Today!:
►►► Paul Was Not Sent to {water} baptize! Why Not?: ◄◄◄
Today:
[ Disagree: "Christ is the baptizer" ], as Christ Is The Recipient here:
Only One Baptism = "BY" The One Spirit = God's Operation, Spiritually
Identifying members/Translating them Into (The One Body Of) Christ!
(Ephesians 4:5; Colossians_2:12; Galatians_3:27;
Romans_6:3-4; 1 Corinthians 12:13 KJB)
Conclusion1: God's ONE Baptism Today? = ONE
Or, Equals two? = water problem with God's Math! Correct?
Conclusion2: There is neither 'water' Nor "second blessing" baptisms today, Because, at
the Very moment of faith/trust/belief, this part Of God's Operation Was Executed:
ONE Baptism
Also helpful: UnScriptural or UNdispensational?
Precious friend:
borrowed from: Three Baptisms Rightly Divided:
In God's Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided, HE Teaches ( among others ), these:
Three Bible Baptisms:
In God's Context Of Prophecy/Covenants/Law for ISRAEL, Yesterday!:
►►► The Twelve Were Sent to {water} baptize! ◄◄◄
The TWO Main ( of 12 ) baptisms [ available upon request ]
A) water, For remission of sins/induction into Israeli "priesthood!":
(Matthew_3:5-6; Mark_1:4; Luke_3:3; John_1:31; Luke 7:29-30; Acts_10:37)
(Matthew_28:19; Mark_16:16; Acts_2:38, 22:16; Ezekiel_36:25; Isaiah 52:15)
+ [ Correct, "Christ is the baptizer" ] here:
B) WITH The Holy Spirit, Poured Out By CHRIST, for power, signs And wonders!
(Isaiah_44:3; Matthew_3:11; Mark_1:8, 16:17-18;
Luke_24:49; Acts_2:17-18, 38, 8:15-17, 11:16)
Prophecy / Covenants / Law for twelve tribes of Israel!
Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That Differ!” (online):
In God's Other Distinctive Context Of Mystery / GRACE! (Romans - Philemon) =
our "One apostle to the Gentiles" for The One Body Of CHRIST, Today!:
►►► Paul Was Not Sent to {water} baptize! Why Not?: ◄◄◄
Today:
[ Disagree: "Christ is the baptizer" ], as Christ Is The Recipient here:
Only One Baptism = "BY" The One Spirit = God's Operation, Spiritually
Identifying members/Translating them Into (The One Body Of) Christ!
(Ephesians 4:5; Colossians_2:12; Galatians_3:27;
Romans_6:3-4; 1 Corinthians 12:13 KJB)
Conclusion1: God's ONE Baptism Today? = ONE
Or, Equals two? = water problem with God's Math! Correct?
Conclusion2: There is neither 'water' Nor "second blessing" baptisms today, Because, at
the Very moment of faith/trust/belief, this part Of God's Operation Was Executed:
"Blessed be The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, Who Hath blessed
us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ" (Ephesians 1:3)
----------------------------------ONE Baptism
Also helpful: UnScriptural or UNdispensational?
Bob Carabbio
Well-known member
True - Jesus used the word "ENDUED" (Luke 24:29) with power, Enduement is EXTERNAL - a "Clothing with". John 20:22 is when the Holy Spirit INDWELLED the disciples.
Many hold that to be a temporary filling
I would say Christ is the baptizer and the medium is the Holy Spirit
Matt 3:11I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
Mark 1:8I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.
Luke 3:16John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:
Acts 11:16 (ESV) — 16 And I remembered the word of the Lord, how he said, ‘John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’
Man is united with the spirit for his effect which is to make us more like Christ
Christ the baptizer
The Spirit the investing medium
I see this as precluding that
Acts 8:21–23 (ESV) — 21 You have neither part nor lot in this matter, for your heart is not right before God. 22 Repent, therefore, of this wickedness of yours, and pray to the Lord that, if possible, the intent of your heart may be forgiven you. 23 For I see that you are in the gall of bitterness and in the bond of iniquity.”
Historically Simon proved himself to be a bane to the church -, so I have read
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