Are you actually Protestant?

[Dizerner]

“lean on your own understanding “

It is a bit interesting how you change trust in the Lord to trust in the Church.

I'm not antagonistic on this, and even Protestants fall for that mistake—we all do.

Can't be just God. Anything but just God. You might get it WRONG. Look at all those people who got it WRONG!

I had to come to a point feeling the spirits wrestle with my mind, that even if every other human being said they trusted in God and ended up misled, I would still trust in God and believe that somehow those people weren't as trustful as they thought they were, or else they did the best they could, but the one thing I couldn't allow myself to believe was that God was a liar when he said to trust in him.

It wasn't easy.

I've been through some deep waters.

 

[mikepec]

It is a bit interesting how you change trust in the Lord to trust in the Church.

I'm not antagonistic on this, and even Protestants fall for that mistake—we all do.

Can't be just God. Anything but just God. You might get it WRONG. Look at all those people who got it WRONG!

I had to come to a point feeling the spirits wrestle with my mind, that even if every other human being said they trusted in God and ended up misled, I would still trust in God and believe that somehow those people weren't as trustful as they thought they were, or else they did the best they could, but the one thing I couldn't allow myself to believe was that God was a liar when he said to trust in him.

It wasn't easy.

I've been through some deep waters.

But here’s the oddity.
We do trust in God , enough to trust what He says are the sources of truth In scripture!!


I don’t doubt the sincerity of those involved in the early heresies till the church spoke on them.
Take arians or donatists. Both believed scripture supported them. And only one side of each argument had the truth. It mattered.

so God in Scripture tells you to that true Faith is handed down by those who are sent to preach..
Disputes must be taken to THE church , the “ pillar of truth” with the power to bind and loose.
We trust Him. God never said scripture alone or faith alone! God alone presumes you know the mind of God without a source for God to correct misunderstandings. “Hard sayings “ as Peter said.

Christ foresaw the need to resolve disputes.

Or take infant baptism valid or not? It either is or isnt and it really matters to salvation..
Scripture is not definitive. So that is the reason a dispute settlement mechanism is in place,
So the church speaks.

Do you believe God lied when he said trust the power to bind and loose?


The only ones whose sincerity I consider is suspect are anti Catholics like Bob , who reel out all the anti Catholic tropes
Like “ salavation by works” or someone else said “ goddesses” of orthodox , when even minimal study would reveal it is not true.

Yet because of people who echo false tropes, the next generation believe them without study too.

He reminds me of the parable of the synagogue - as a Pharisee saying “ I’m not like him, Im a true believer “ of the Catholics who acrept we are the publican, we know we are sinners and have no defence , hope for mercy , , other than to say “ we will keep trying”

We know what Jesus thought of the “ bobs” who spend all their time criticising others, but never themselves.
he never once spends time saying what he believes, his Entire time analysing the beam in others Eyes.

 

[Dizerner]

Do you believe God lied when he said trust the power to bind and loose?

Can you please quote me the verse that says "trust the power to bind and loose," lol.

That's just—an irresponsibly loose paraphrase not befitting anyone who takes Scripture seriously.

I can give you 100 verses—with relative ease—that say to trust in God and not men.

Seems like something "lost in translation."

 

[synergy]

Helpful video.

If anything, "Church history" preceeds "Biblical history" by at least 2 decades. It's back to the drawing board for this presenter.

 

[mikepec]

Can you please quote me the verse that says "trust the power to bind and loose," lol.

That's just—an irresponsibly loose paraphrase not befitting anyone who takes Scripture seriously.

I can give you 100 verses—with relative ease—that say to trust in God and not men.

Seems like something "lost in translation."

Jesus said to Peter
“I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”

Simple logic
-binding and loosing is a power
- Jesus gave it to Peter.

So by simple logic, if you don’t trust Peter has the power , or that it is effective as Jesus stated, you don’t trust Jesus.

It seems you are losing sonething in translation!! Or do you only trust Jesus if he says something you like?

in more general terms, Sola scriptura believers can make the Bible say anything they like by cherrypicking bits they like, disregarding others , and disregarding those sent to preach the true faith Of what scriptire MEANS. It’s why protestants all disagree With each other on almost every significant aspect of doctrine, then have no means to resolve disagreement so schism .
And the travesty is , the Bible nowhere says sola scriptura, which is logically, historically and scripturally false.
you should listen to those SENT to preach.

 

[Frank Russell]

There are no goddesses in orthodox.

They say that, but when questioned if they believe the same things as the Catholic Church, they dance around it, and then agree when the subject has changed.

One especially weird idea is the role mary has in salvation.

Since the scripture takes an opposite direction of their tenor, it's hard not to disagree or see their adoration as a form of worship of a crafted mary that did not exist.

 

[mikepec]

They say that, but when questioned if they believe the same things as the Catholic Church, they dance around it, and then agree when the subject has changed.

One especially weird idea is the role mary has in salvation.

Since the scripture takes an opposite direction of their tenor, it's hard not to disagree or see their adoration as a form of worship of a crafted mary that did not

Your opinion of scripture.
And thats the problem With the false doctrine of sola scriptura, you all have Different opinions.

But since you claim orthodox had “ goddesses” you either refuse to study, copy myths or you are wilfully disingenuous . So it is pointless discussing. Worry about your own salvation, not theirs. You should rely on the sources of truth Jesus identified , not your own understanding.

 

[MatthewG]

If anything, "Church history" preceeds "Biblical history" by at least 2 decades. It's back to the drawing board for this presenter.

Idk. Early church Father they call them, and then you have the biblical church in the gospels and letters.

 

[mikepec]

Idk. Early church Father they call them, and then you have the biblical church in the gospels and letters.

You don’t get it do you. Study history, then discuss it,
1/ the Faith was handed down by word of mouth and letter by those SENT to preach. Read scripture. .
2/ you all disagree on the meaning of scripture, it’s why protestants DISAGREE on every matter of doctrine
3/ the early fathers taught by apostles TELL you what scripture means.
4/ take John taught a Eucharist of the real flesh valid only if presided by a bishop in succession
5/ it doesn’t matter what YOU think scripture means , that is the real faith.
6/ Jesus also gave the church the power to resolve disputes , with the power to bind and loose.
7/ so scripture says take disputes to the church which it calls the pillar of truth

Neither history, logic, nor scripture supports sola scriptura. Protestants were sold a lie.sola scriptura was a man Made tradition that launched 10000 schisms, where you all make up your own mind what doctrine is. And you all disagree.

 

[MatthewG]

I just like the reading and learning.

 

[Brakelite]

Or maybe it’s we study actual history in church father writings

Like the donation of Constantine?

 

[Brakelite]

the Faith was handed down by word of mouth and letter by those SENT to preach

True. One would then have to ask, why did the Catholic church so often then attempt to destroy those churches established by those sent to preach?

Study history, then discuss it,

Great idea. Innumerable churches and communities turning to Christ in nations and territories not known by nor visited by Rome until many decades, even centuries later. Then either claiming them as Catholic by forcing them to surrender to papal authority, or destroying them when they didn't.

 

[mikepec]

True. One would then have to ask, why did the Catholic church so often then attempt to destroy those churches established by those sent to preach?

Great idea. Innumerable churches and communities turning to Christ in nations and territories not known by nor visited by Rome until many decades, even centuries later. Then either claiming them as Catholic by forcing them to surrender to papal authority, or destroying them when they didn't.

I know you want to believe it.
Even a cursory study of early writings proves you are completely wrong .

Suggestion : study church history not anticatholic hate writers twisting it all to false narrative.

You forget I was a Protestant for 20 years , I know all the arguments and why they do not stand scrutiny .

As Newman said : to be deep in history is to cease to be Protestant

 

[Frank Russell]

Your opinion of scripture.
And thats the problem With the false doctrine of sola scriptura, you all have Different opinions.

But since you claim orthodox had “ goddesses” you either refuse to study, copy myths or you are wilfully disingenuous . So it is pointless discussing. Worry about your own salvation, not theirs. You should rely on the sources of truth Jesus identified , not your own understanding.

Not opinion of scripture.

I studied it extensively by actually asking orthodox people what they believe, actually asking catholic people what they believe. The aspect I am referring to is in the catechism and the orthodox liturgy.

There is no scripture speaking of Mary saving anyone. Salvation is about Jesus.

 

[mikepec]

Not opinion of scripture.

I studied it extensively by actually asking orthodox people what they believe, actually asking catholic people what they believe. The aspect I am referring to is in the catechism and the orthodox liturgy.

There is no scripture speaking of Mary saving anyone. Salvation is about Jesus.

No orthodox or catholic ever refers to “ goddesses”.
you just see what you want to see, you make it up.
Your posting is both false and offensive.

 

[Brakelite]

You forget I was a Protestant for 20 years

And I was Catholic for 23 years. Born of Irish Catholic ancestors going back a long way. But also born of Protestant ancestors...Hugenot ancestors who escaped Catholic persecutions in France, and had to survive under a false name and new identity in Catholic Britain. All of which is ultimately meaningless without a relationship with Jesus. We can boast all day long of knowledge, history, heritage, but all of it is vanity without Jesus being able to say in the end. I knew this one, and I died to redeem him.

 

[Frank Russell]

No orthodox or catholic ever refers to “ goddesses”.
you just see what you want to see, you make it up.
Your posting is both false and offensive.

They both refer to Mary as contributing to our salvation.

Salvation only comes from God.

Therefore, it is goddess worship.

 

[360watt]

If protestant means 'coming out of the reformation'... a reformation movement.. then no. Independent baptists have teaching that goes before the reformation. The baptists then did help the protestant reformation.. but didn't need to reform their own doctrine.

There is a book on this titled 'The Non-Protestant Baptists'

 

[mikepec]

They both refer to Mary as contributing to our salvation.

Salvation only comes from God.

Therefore, it is goddess worship.

Wrong and offensive, and completely illogical.
If you must insult others do so on facts.
That’s the problem with anti Catholics. They neither know nor care.


And it isn’t just us that is offended . God himself is offended by your insults of Mary.
he said so in 1917.

what cult do you belong to?

 

[Dizerner]

And it isn’t just us that is offended . God himself is offended by your insults of Mary.
he said so in 1917.

It seems pretty common in my experience for many to think other's doctrines are idolatry.

Calvinists always accuse Arminians of "worshiping the man-made idol of free will."

I think—sometimes a person doesn't really intend for a thing to be an idol, but it kind of fits the definition.