Are you actually Protestant?

[Bob Carabbio]

All God's chilluns got some pagan practices they need to work on.

You might start with your imaginary "PURGATORY", and your Phony "Blessed Virgin" thing. And of course your BIGGEST lie: Salvation by WORKS + the "Catholic version of Faith".

 

[Diserner]

You might start with your imaginary "PURGATORY", and your Phony "Blessed Virgin" thing. And of course your BIGGEST lie: Salvation by WORKS + the "Catholic version of Faith".

Yeah, you're real good at seeing the other guy's sins.

Want a scratch n' sniff sticker to smell how pious you are?

I'm not even a Catholic, but who cares, right.

 

[Brakelite]

I have no reason to trust in the teachings of Antichrist. I have every reason to trust in the Spirit of God to teach me through His word.
Giving up sola scriptura due to different interpretations is akin to giving up free will on account of different lifestyles and worldviews.

 

[mikepec]

It's not how I know they are Scripture, I promise you that.

Scriptures say they are self-attesting, and they are.

I know they are Scripture because God meets me there.

completey disprovable , not historical, but protestants do love their man made tradition!

 

[mikepec]

i follow the Truth of the LORD Jesus Christ who admonishes you to believe His words that you might escape judgment.
Many, many catholics are involved in idolatry.
God warns us to run from it.

No one can receive the LORD Jesus Christ by the falsehood of transubstantiation.


John chapter 6

Therefore many of His disciples, when they heard this, said, “This is a hard saying; who can understand it?”

61When Jesus knew in Himself that His disciples [n]complained about this, He said to them, “Does this [o]offend you? 62What then if you should see the Son of Man ascend where He was before? 63It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life. 64But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him. 65And He said, “Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father.”

If you want to know what John 6 means, johns disciples tell you. Ask ignatius.

 

[mikepec]

Yeah, you're real good at seeing the other guy's sins.

Want a scratch n' sniff sticker to smell how pious you are?

I'm not even a Catholic, but who cares, right.

It’s an important issue.

The fact of sinners in a church doesn’t alter veracity of teaching.

paul once murdered Christian’s , and later lamented the evil he would not do, he did.
But Jesus still used him as infallible channel of communication.

Jesus condemned the Pharisees but said all should listen and obey when they teach from “ Moses seat”, which shows tradition and authority existed even pre crucifixion.
He also cndemns the Pharisees for looking for the speck in others eyes, not the beam in their own as Bob seems to do. He should worry about his salvation, not mine.

So when people point at the sins of any members of any church, it proves only that they are human. It’s why Christ came.
Jesus says he is there in all churches when they gather in his name . I firmly believe, since I met many holy people on my way from protestant to evangelical then home to Rome

But To determine who has the truth, Jesus is in control.
He says “ listen to those Sent to preach “ so the true faith is handed down By succession.
And he gave the power to resolve disoutes the power to “ bind and loose” which is why The church is the pillar of truth.

All believe in infallibility, God speaking through men,
it’s the only way scripture is inspired. like Paul it doesn’t mean they are sinless,

So the idea popes and councils have the inspired power to decide disputes , does not make them superhuman . all are sinners. Jesus sometimes speaks through men. As he did in deciding what is scriptpure in a council decision.

 

[DavidTree]

If you want to know what John 6 means, johns disciples tell you. Ask ignatius.

No need to ask them since i have God's Word.

Everyone else takes a back seat.

 

[Diserner]

completey disprovable , not historical, but protestants do love their man made tradition!

This is a kind of secular and intellectual definition of proof that really ends up bypassing direct faith in God, to establish some logical path to externally justified belief, when there clearly is none.

You are justified in believing things you cannot prove to me; you are justified in believe you experience self-awareness, even though nothing you possibly do could absolutely prove it to me.

I know what it's like to feel the need to confirm my faith, to find some alternate support and crutch to bolster my faith other than God himself; we still see verse, "cursed is the man who trusts in man."

I am not hard hearted. We've all looked to the wrong thing for security somewhere. I challenge you to pray to the Lord with an open heart to see any false securities, and that he waits with open arms to walk on the water with you.

Peace in Christ.

 

[Brakelite]

If you want to know what John 6 means, johns disciples tell you. Ask ignatius.

We don't need experts to tell us what scripture means. What makes them trustworthy? Some may be helpful, some might be utterly and helplessly useless. The Bereans didn't go to the experts... The Parisees and lawyers... To get their interpretation of scripture. Not did they accept Paul at face value. They went to the word itself. The word itself was made for everyone... Not just a select few who claim degrees and honours granted them by institutions that
A. Murdered Jesus and
B. Murdered His disciples and
C. Coveted the scriptures for themselves and their meaning, in order to sustain their popularity and power.
The above applies particularly to Rome. First in its pagan form, then in the dark ages it's papal form. But still Rome. Hence the little horn growing from the Roman beast, and inheriting it's characteristics.

 

[Brakelite]

The fact of sinners in a church doesn’t alter veracity of teaching.

That's just a diversionary tactic and isn't the issue. The real issue is not that there are sinners in the church... We are all sinners to one extent or the other, but all redeemed by the blood of the Lamb should we choose to accept it... And no church is disqualified as a result. So none would argue with that.
The real issue with Rome is that oscillation, the prosecuting of heresy, the use of the state to war against those who teach the Bible as opposed to tradition such as the Waldenses and the Hussites... Just 2 examples of hundreds...was not because there were singers in the church, but that those wicked practises were policy. They were entrenched into canon law, written and decided by so called infallible church councils and approved by so called infallible popes, and still are to this day.

 

[mikepec]

We don't need experts to tell us what scripture means. What makes them trustworthy? Some may be helpful, some might be utterly and helplessly useless. The Bereans didn't go to the experts... The Parisees and lawyers... To get their interpretation of scripture. Not did they accept Paul at face value. They went to the word itself. The word itself was made for everyone... Not just a select few who claim degrees and honours granted them by institutions that
A. Murdered Jesus and
B. Murdered His disciples and
C. Coveted the scriptures for themselves and their meaning, in order to sustain their popularity and power.
The above applies particularly to Rome. First in its pagan form, then in the dark ages it's papal form. But still Rome. Hence the little horn growing from the Roman beast, and inheriting it's characteristics.

They are not "experts" they are those SENT to preach to whom you are told to listen.
They are those taught by John who was taught by our Lord - so unlike you - they KNOW what Jesus meant and were sent to preach it.
For the bereans scripture was the Old testament. Protestants even messed with that without authority.

What I tell you is what scripture says!.
The power to bind and loose. To listen to those who were sent. To take disputes to the Church, the "pillar of truth"
It is precisely because the Jews of the time looked to scripture for explanation, Jesus was careful to explain (for example) the powers of Peter in terms of the OT " the keys of the kingdom" . Just so the bereans might respect that he is in charge whilst the king is away, the inherited role.
We are catholics because we revere scripture. Our mass is wall to wall scripture (unlike any protestant or evangelical service)

 

[Brakelite]

they KNOW what Jesus meant and were sent to preach it.

You don't know what Jesus meant without them? Why not? Was Jesus' speeches so unintelligible that they need an interpreter? If you have any difficulty at all, what is wrong with prayer and the work of the holy Spirit? "Shall your earthly father give you a scorpion when you ask for bread?" How much more will your heavenly Father give the holy Spirit to those who ask".

 

[mikepec]

You don't know what Jesus meant without them? Why not? Was Jesus' speeches so unintelligible that they need an interpreter? If you have any difficulty at all, what is wrong with prayer and the work of the holy Spirit? "Shall your earthly father give you a scorpion when you ask for bread?" How much more will your heavenly Father give the holy Spirit to those who ask".

Let protestants answer that. They disagree on almost every aspect of doctrine, polar opposites on much.
So YOU have difficulty accepting that your personal opinion of what scripture means is irrelevant.
So Jesus' speeches were clearly unintelligble to protestants.

You also deny history. The many outing of heresies such as arianism, were precisely BECAUSE scripture was not written as a manual of faith, and there are many "hard sayings" in it. Thankfully Jesus appointed interpreters given the power to bind and loose.

John 6 Jesus says that the eucharist IS his body and blood. Not represents but is. And you are told to "gnaw" it not consume it.
Ignatius and other disciples taught by apostles repeat just that. IS the flesh. Also that it needs a bishop in succession to be valid.
That profaning it can kill you says Paul. Nothing symbolic about it. What was bread becomes flesh whether or not it appears as such to your senses.

So if you do not think any of that, you are leaning on your own understanding , and not listening to those who were SENT to preach.
Nor are you listening to the "pillar of truth". Given the power to BIND AND LOOSE meaning.

Its why the protestant church fractured into thousands of bits. Those who think their own opinion trumps those Jesus SENT to preach.
Even more heinous than that are such as Luther who redefined what scripture was. He hand no authority to do so. Maccabees is in. Like it or not.

 

[Brakelite]

Let protestants answer that. They disagree on almost every aspect of doctrine, polar opposites on much.
So YOU have difficulty accepting that your personal opinion of what scripture means is irrelevant.
So Jesus' speeches were clearly unintelligble to protestants.

You also deny history. The many outing of heresies such as arianism, were precisely BECAUSE scripture was not written as a manual of faith, and there are many "hard sayings" in it. Thankfully Jesus appointed interpreters given the power to bind and loose.

John 6 Jesus says that the eucharist IS his body and blood. Not represents but is. And you are told to "gnaw" it not consume it.
Ignatius and other disciples taught by apostles repeat just that. IS the flesh. Also that it needs a bishop in succession to be valid.
That profaning it can kill you says Paul. Nothing symbolic about it. What was bread becomes flesh whether or not it appears as such to your senses.

So if you do not think any of that, you are leaning on your own understanding , and not listening to those who were SENT to preach.
Nor are you listening to the "pillar of truth". Given the power to BIND AND LOOSE meaning.

Its why the protestant church fractured into thousands of bits. Those who think their own opinion trumps those Jesus SENT to preach.
Even more heinous than that are such as Luther who redefined what scripture was. He hand no authority to do so. Maccabees is in. Like it or not.

All according to an institution that murdered millions in order to validate and enforce those very opinions you are espousing above.

 

[Brakelite]

Those who think their own opinion trumps those Jesus SENT to preach

You have to prove... From scripture... Without preconceived ideas... That the same holy Spirit that taught Christians for over 1000 years from the scriptures and sustained the church for that period until they were destroyed by persecutions... The church in the wilderness (see Revelation 12:14,15)... Was unable to teach the church today. Yes, the protestant church is divided, and are holding onto every wind of doctrine, but they do have most things right, with a few variables, but before Christ comes His church will be without spot and wrinkle. So long as God's people are searching and thirsting for truth, God will lead them and perfect them, filling them with righteousness. That is a promise to individuals... Seek ye first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things will be added (Matt.5:6; 6:33). This is not a corporate promise. As you said, there are sinners in the church who are unrepentant, dressed as sheep but misleading the flock, even Antichrist sits in the church masquerading as Christ pretending he has the same prerogatives as Christ: such as the power to forgive sin, replace Christ as High Priest, permit idolatry in the sanctuary, claim the right to control the consciences of men, and the authority to change God's laws. Such an institution, even though it calls itself Christian, does not, can not, speak for God or presume to teach God's people with any authority or correctness. Such claims are blasphemy, and are a part of the cup of abominations held by the harlot.

 

[mikepec]

All according to an institution that murdered millions in order to validate and enforce those very opinions you are espousing above.

Protestants do love their myths. The number goes up every time they repeat it. The lens of hate blinds them.
Meanwhile millions of catholics were provably actually murdered for being catholics.
Try the vendee in france. Do you know what happened to catholics in the UK for refusing to sign up to Henrys apostasy to protestantism?
Read the stories of the english martyrs.

Thats not to say the members of the church did not do heinous things. There are many sinners at all levels in the catholic church and all churches. We have more people so we have more sinners! It is why Jesus came.

But then Paul was a christian murderer, who "did the evil he would not do" but still Jesus used him infallibly. Pauls wickedness did not altar the veracity of his teaching. He was SENT to preach. Jesus has a choice of imperfect people to choose.

And whatever your myths you cannot altar what scripture says .

Which is Jesus told you to listen to those who were SENT to preach, not reintepreters of scripture from the reformation on who cannot even agree with each other on what it means .
Jesus gave the power to bind and loose to infallibly interpret scripture. One of those was the pope in very llimited situations , and before you disagree, even Calvin agreed - read his commentary on Matthew. Jesus told you the pillar of truth was THE church to where you must take disputes.

Why do NONE of you EVER answer.

If your own opinion of scripture was infallible, why do you all disagree with each other?
So when you claim the "holy spirit guided you" , do you claim there are 10000 holy spirits who all disagree which is why you all disagree with each other?

So for the first time one of you answer that.
So my advice is go back to scripture and see the sources JESUS gave you on how to know what is true. Do the Berean thing.

 

[Wrangler]

Yup. I ain't Catholic. The rest is "Word games".

Not quite.

Your answer presupposes a binary dichotomy. In the West, we often forget about our Eastern Orthodox brothers.

 

[mikepec]

Not quite.

Your answer presupposes a binary dichotomy. In the West, we often forget about our Eastern Orthodox brothers.

It’s sad that someone identifies by what “they are not.”

And sadly there are so many disagreements on every aspect of doctrine between protestants that almost all that unites many of them is dislike of Catholicism , or aguably dislike of authority.

I suggest to such as Bob they start defining what they are instead, and try to sell us the reasons why their version of protestantism is right against all others , including many protestants that disagree with him.

 

[Diserner]

Why do NONE of you EVER answer.

If your own opinion of scripture was infallible, why do you all disagree with each other?
So when you claim the "holy spirit guided you" , do you claim there are 10000 holy spirits who all disagree which is why you all disagree with each other?

So for the first time one of you answer that.

Now, now, let's deal honestly.

I did answer that.

And in fact, it's not even a hard question; it is our sin nature and bad influences that lead us to believe wrong things.

Let's say that only one Protestant ever heard the correct answer on a certain doctrine, out of all of them. Does that logically invalidate the truth that a person can receive this revelation from God? Your argument would have to be altered to "God wouldn't let the majority be wrong." And try defending that from Scripture itself, as it displays the majority as wrong in quite a lot of cases.

But what happens when you try to make the source of security transferred from God into men instead, is you want to buttress up a system that looks good to the external eye. This is a Muslim and atheist favorite argument, "If Christianity were true, why would God allow so many factions and disagreements?" And the Muslims handled it quite simply, just eliminate the competition—not exactly a divine solution.

No, God allows for sinful believers, for Christians to make mistakes, and we all are each individually responsible for our own depth of prayer and sincerity of heart. This way, every true believer will be guided into the essentials, and for whatever else mistakes we make, we simply must trust in the atoning power of Christ. There is no fixing this with a man-made band-aid and being unwilling to trust God to build his church, even if messy.

Even Catholics allow for "lesser light" and such things, as most other "one true church" organizations do. So gracious of them to allow God outside of their self-declared authority, lol. It might seem "scary" to let God's church be a mess, but then all the glory really goes to God, and all the fault is actually man's, just as Scripture tells us. And we can pray for those we consider in the wrong, to "complete what is lacking in Christ's afflictions."

And the beautiful irony in your appeal to look to Scripture to verify the Roman Catholic church... oughtn't you appeal the other way around? It just shows how deep our spiritual intuitions run that God's Word should be in some sense our ultimate guide.

Peace in Christ.

 

[Brakelite]

It’s sad that someone identifies by what “they are not.”

And sadly there are so many disagreements on every aspect of doctrine between protestants that almost all that unites many of them is dislike of Catholicism , or aguably dislike of authority.

I suggest to such as Bob they start defining what they are instead, and try to sell us the reasons why their version of protestantism is right against all others , including many protestants that disagree with him.

A number of points.
First, Paul was not a Christian murderer.
Second, while Jesus did say we ought to listen to those who teach, He didn't say obey them if they taught contradictions to scripture, such as commandments that nullified the commandments of God
Thirdly, this isn't about a simple 'dislike' of Catholicism, and certainly isn't a dislike off Catholics. It's about an unarguable scriptural inspired identification of the papacy as being the Antichrist, elsewhere described as the great harlot, Babylon. An institution which today more than at any time previously, is working to join together all religions, all governments, and all financial entities into one conglomerate...
If you are a true child of God, God is calling you out of Babylon. It is full of demons and is fallen. And she has not changed since Luther's day. She still sells indulgences. And does so at the same time as boasting that protestants are now coming home to Mother. The daughters of the harlot are returning. The Lutherans. The Presbyterians. The evangelicals. The charismatics and Pentecostals. The Episcopalians. And more.

Not me. I am a fundamentalist Protestant and I still uphold the Bible as my only authority in faith and practise. I deny the authority of the Pope as granted to him by the dragon. I do not recognise his blasphemous seat,. Nor do I wonder after him. I wait in full expectation of the second coming, and am saved and assured of that salvation through the grace of God and the shed blood of Christ.
In the eyes of the current Pope, that makes me a terrorist. So be it.



The above is a picture, a stark revelation of who the Pope claims to be. Seated on a great white throne between 2 cherubim, and 4 living creatures.

KJV 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.