Are we under any covenants?

[dwight92070]

Paul said, " ... our adequacy is from God, who also made us adequate as servants of a NEW COVENANT, ..." 2 Cor. 3:5-6

So some here would have us believe that Paul was under the New Covenant, but the Gentiles to whom he was sent could not enter into the New Covenant. In other words, the wall between him and the Gentiles he preached to, could not be torn down. How foolish!

 

[TomL]

Paul said, " ... our adequacy is from God, who also made us adequate as servants of a NEW COVENANT, ..." 2 Cor. 3:5-6

So some here would have us believe that Paul was under the New Covenant, but the Gentiles to whom he was sent could not enter into the New Covenant. In other words, the wall between him and the Gentiles he preached to, could not be torn down. How foolish!

How unbiblical

Ephesians 2:14–19 (KJV 1900) — 14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; 15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; 16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: 17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. 18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. 19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

A mad attempt to put aside the work of Christ

 

[dwight92070]

Amen! Thank you TomL. Those powerful verses describe the true Israel of God. And to think that Jews are still under the Mosaic law directly contradicts Paul's words in those verses.

Even the Lord Himself in Jer. 31:31-32 said that the "new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, (who believing Gentiles ARE SPIRITUALLY) is NOT LIKE THE COVENANT WHICH I MADE WITH THEIR FATHERS IN THE DAY I TOOK THEM ... OUT OF ... EGYPT." Jews are no longer under the law of Moses. Actually, nobody is - that law ceased to exist when Jesus was crucified.

Those who don't believe that don't want one new man. They prefer that the dividing wall stay up. They prefer that the Jews and the Gentiles would forever be separated. They don't want "one body by the cross". They prefer that the Jews and the Gentiles would forever be two separate bodies. They prefer that only they have access to the Father by the Spirit. They don't want Gentiles to be fellowcitizens with them and part of the household of God. That is prejudice and racism, one of the sins that Jesus died to eradicate.

We also see here the utter falsehood of the Dispensationalists, who say that the church (consisting primarily of believing Gentiles but also some believing Jews who missed the rapture), will forever be God's heavenly people and the believing Jews (consisting primarily of Jews but also some Gentiles who converted to Judaism), will forever be God's earthly people. In other words, the division of the Jews and the Gentiles will go on into eternity!! What a mockery of the true Word of God!!

 

[TomL]

Amen! Thank you TomL. Those powerful verses describe the true Israel of God. And to think that Jews are still under the Mosaic law directly contradicts Paul's words in those verses.

Even the Lord Himself in Jer. 31:31-32 said that the "new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, (who believing Gentiles ARE SPIRITUALLY) is NOT LIKE THE COVENANT WHICH I MADE WITH THEIR FATHERS IN THE DAY I TOOK THEM ... OUT OF ... EGYPT." Jews are no longer under the law of Moses. Actually, nobody is - that law ceased to exist when Jesus was crucified.

Those who don't believe that don't want one new man. They prefer that the dividing wall stay up. They prefer that the Jews and the Gentiles would forever be separated. They don't want "one body by the cross". They prefer that the Jews and the Gentiles would forever be two separate bodies. They prefer that only they have access to the Father by the Spirit. They don't want Gentiles to be fellowcitizens with them and part of the household of God. That is prejudice and racism, one of the sins that Jesus died to eradicate.

We also see here the utter falsehood of the Dispensationalists, who say that the church (consisting primarily of believing Gentiles but also some believing Jews who missed the rapture), will forever be God's heavenly people and the believing Jews (consisting primarily of Jews but also some Gentiles who converted to Judaism), will forever be God's earthly people. In other words, the division of the Jews and the Gentiles will go on into eternity!! What a mockery of the true Word of God!!

You are welcome

 

[e v e]

The covenant is to return to God and our eden paradise.

We have been in a foreign land for thousands of years.

 

[TomL]

The Holy Spirit of Promise was PROMISED TO ISRAEL. NOT Gentiles.

Galatians 3:14 (KJV 1900) — 14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

 

[dwight92070]

Israel never was all Jewish. From the very beginning there were proselytes. Some Egyptians even crossed the Red Sea with the Israelites. In fact, all of God's promises in the Old Testament were either for individuals or the remnant of Israel. The remnant was those Israelites and Gentile proselytes who remained true to the Lord, even when other Jews did not. Those proselytes became part of Israel, the remnant of Israel.
So even when the Lord through Jeremiah gave the New Covenant to the house of Israel and the house of Judah, He was speaking to the remnant of Israel, including some Gentiles. So once again, we see faithful Gentiles being given the New Covenant right along with the Jewish remnant.

 

[dwight92070]

Paul was made an "adequate" ... "servant of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life." 2 Corinthians 3:6

Being an "apostle to the Gentiles", Paul was definitely including them in the New Covenant, especially since they were believing Gentiles - they were in Christ, who Himself was the New Covenant.

"And I will appoint You as a covenant to the people, ..." Isaiah 42:6 Who are the people? The REMNANT OF ISRAEL, which includes Jewish believers AND Gentile proselytes, also believers. Today, ALL believers, Jew or Gentile are THE REMNANT OF ISRAEL, which Paul called the olive tree in Romans 11:16-24. We are still THE REMNANT OF ISRAEL. We are also called "chosen" and "elect" in the New Testament.

Isaiah 49:8 " ...And I will keep You and give You for a covenant of the people." Who are the people? THE REMNANT OF ISRAEL - Jews and Gentiles who are believers.

 

[Peterlag]

Precious friends, for your prayerful and Careful consideration:

"When the Bible speaks of covenants in the specific sense, it is speaking of the covenants given to God’s chosen nation Israel. No one today in the dispensation of Grace is a partaker of the covenants which are made between Israel and God.

Hebrews 8:7 speaks of the first covenant and the second covenant given to Israel. The first covenant describes the Law as given to Israel at Horeb:


The second covenant, or ‘better covenant’, is the ‘new covenant’ also given to Israel (Heb 8:13, 12:24).


And again in Jeremiah:


Knowing that the covenants were given to Israel and Judah, Paul stated concerning his brethren according to the flesh, Israel,


Gentiles and the Body of Christ

The covenants were between God and Israel regarding their future redemption as spoken of by the prophets since the world began. However, Gentiles in time past as well as those in the body
of Christ today are not a part of the covenants.

Paul says,


In order for a Gentile in time past to get the blessings of God they had to follow the provisions of the covenant. (See “Did Gentiles in the Old Testament get saved?” for more.) However, they were estranged from the covenants given to Israel.

During the dispensation of Grace, believers receive the benefits of the redemptive work of Christ
on the cross outside of any covenant relationship. It was purely by God’s grace that we receive
eternal life and the blessings associated with salvation. Otherwise grace would not be grace
(Romans 11:6).

Today there is neither Jew nor Gentile. There is no special status before God for any nation today.


Instead of a covenant providing the necessary terms of redemption, believers today are
of the same body and partakers of the promise in Christ by the gospel of the grace of God
(Eph 3:6, Titus 1:2-3). We receive the mercy and the grace of God apart from our adherence
to any covenant given in time past, we receive it by faith (Romans 5:1, 8-10)."

(J Johnson, a fellow Grace ambassador)

Amen.

View attachment 602

However, when it comes to the faith of Jesus Christ, we must understand the relationship Jesus Christ has with God to have this faith. It's beyond just trusting God because of the acceptance of the new established covenant that demands obedience to God’s testimony. Faith is not a leap in the dark, but a leap through the dark into the light. It's the intelligent acceptance of the report of a reliable witness that would persuade one to accept something as the truth in the reliability of the testimony. The faith of Jesus Christ is the relationship existing between God and Christ in the bond of the covenant between them. To recognize and acknowledge the relationship God has entered into with Christ, we must first understand that God is the originator of the covenant relationship, and God is the one who brings into being things that did not previously exist. This is His oath, His covenant, and He can be relied on to keep His part of the contract because He guarantees it, and this is His truth.

Jesus Christ is the only begotten Son who is expressing the acknowledgment of his Father’s promises and power. As I stated earlier, the faith of Jesus Christ is the relationship existing between God and Christ in the bond of the covenant between them. The faith Christ has is his faith because of his acknowledgment and acceptance of his Father’s new covenant. Thus, the “gospel of Christ” is born. This faith Jesus Christ has is solid because it's the trust Jesus Christ has with God, who brought him into this special relationship that created the bond of the new covenant between them. We can tap into this faith by our believing and walk and live within the power of the Scriptures because we are connected to the faith of Jesus Christ. It's not our believing that makes us righteous, but the faith of Jesus Christ, whereby we not only have our standing, but also have access to the high and holy privilege that comes with that spiritual standing.

 

[TomL]

Precious friends, for your prayerful and Careful consideration:

"When the Bible speaks of covenants in the specific sense, it is speaking of the covenants given to God’s chosen nation Israel. No one today in the dispensation of Grace is a partaker of the covenants which are made between Israel and God.

Hebrews 8:7 speaks of the first covenant and the second covenant given to Israel. The first covenant describes the Law as given to Israel at Horeb:


The second covenant, or ‘better covenant’, is the ‘new covenant’ also given to Israel (Heb 8:13, 12:24).


And again in Jeremiah:


Knowing that the covenants were given to Israel and Judah, Paul stated concerning his brethren according to the flesh, Israel,


Gentiles and the Body of Christ

The covenants were between God and Israel regarding their future redemption as spoken of by the prophets since the world began. However, Gentiles in time past as well as those in the body
of Christ today are not a part of the covenants.

Paul says,


In order for a Gentile in time past to get the blessings of God they had to follow the provisions of the covenant. (See “Did Gentiles in the Old Testament get saved?” for more.) However, they were estranged from the covenants given to Israel.

During the dispensation of Grace, believers receive the benefits of the redemptive work of Christ
on the cross outside of any covenant relationship. It was purely by God’s grace that we receive
eternal life and the blessings associated with salvation. Otherwise grace would not be grace
(Romans 11:6).

Today there is neither Jew nor Gentile. There is no special status before God for any nation today.


Instead of a covenant providing the necessary terms of redemption, believers today are
of the same body and partakers of the promise in Christ by the gospel of the grace of God
(Eph 3:6, Titus 1:2-3). We receive the mercy and the grace of God apart from our adherence
to any covenant given in time past, we receive it by faith (Romans 5:1, 8-10)."

(J Johnson, a fellow Grace ambassador)

Amen.

View attachment 602

Paul states we are no longer strangers to the covenant

Ephesians 2:11–19 (NIV84) — 11 Therefore, remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth and called “uncircumcised” by those who call themselves “the circumcision” (that done in the body by the hands of men)— 12 remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ. 14 For he himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15 by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace, 16 and in this one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility. 17 He came and preached peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near. 18 For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit. 19 Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and aliens, but fellow citizens with God’s people and members of God’s household,

 

[dwight92070]

Amen. There has been ample evidence given here that we ARE part of the New Covenant - both believing Jews and Gentiles. It appears that dispensationalists don't want to accept those passages. It must not fit into their twisted doctrine.

 

[TomL]

Amen. There has been ample evidence given here that we ARE part of the New Covenant - both believing Jews and Gentiles. It appears that dispensationalists don't want to accept those passages. It must not fit into their twisted doctrine.

Yes there is and it is the fulfillment of the Abrahamic covenant or promise

 

[dwight92070]

However, when it comes to the faith of Jesus Christ, we must understand the relationship Jesus Christ has with God to have this faith. It's beyond just trusting God because of the acceptance of the new established covenant that demands obedience to God’s testimony. Faith is not a leap in the dark, but a leap through the dark into the light. It's the intelligent acceptance of the report of a reliable witness that would persuade one to accept something as the truth in the reliability of the testimony. The faith of Jesus Christ is the relationship existing between God and Christ in the bond of the covenant between them. To recognize and acknowledge the relationship God has entered into with Christ, we must first understand that God is the originator of the covenant relationship, and God is the one who brings into being things that did not previously exist. This is His oath, His covenant, and He can be relied on to keep His part of the contract because He guarantees it, and this is His truth.

Jesus Christ is the only begotten Son who is expressing the acknowledgment of his Father’s promises and power. As I stated earlier, the faith of Jesus Christ is the relationship existing between God and Christ in the bond of the covenant between them. The faith Christ has is his faith because of his acknowledgment and acceptance of his Father’s new covenant. Thus, the “gospel of Christ” is born. This faith Jesus Christ has is solid because it's the trust Jesus Christ has with God, who brought him into this special relationship that created the bond of the new covenant between them. We can tap into this faith by our believing and walk and live within the power of the Scriptures because we are connected to the faith of Jesus Christ. It's not our believing that makes us righteous, but the faith of Jesus Christ, whereby we not only have our standing, but also have access to the high and holy privilege that comes with that spiritual standing.

Where does the Bible mention a covenant between God and Christ? Or a new covenant between them? Was there an old covenant between God and Christ? I think "faith of Jesus" is more accurately translated "faith in Jesus". You seem to make up a lot of things. But that's no surprise when you deny the Deity of Jesus.
Where does the Bible mention that Jesus has faith?

 

[Peterlag]

Where does the Bible mention a covenant between God and Christ? Or a new covenant between them? Was there an old covenant between God and Christ? I think "faith of Jesus" is more accurately translated "faith in Jesus". You seem to make up a lot of things. But that's no surprise when you deny the Deity of Jesus.
Where does the Bible mention that Jesus has faith?

The reason you cannot understand the Scriptures is because you made Jesus God.

Hebrews 8:6-8
But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

 

[TomL]

Where does the Bible mention a covenant between God and Christ? Or a new covenant between them? Was there an old covenant between God and Christ? I think "faith of Jesus" is more accurately translated "faith in Jesus". You seem to make up a lot of things. But that's no surprise when you deny the Deity of Jesus.
Where does the Bible mention that Jesus has faith?

There is a giving of him for a covenant

Isaiah 42:6 (KJV 1900) — 6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, And will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, And give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;

 

[dwight92070]

The reason you cannot understand the Scriptures is because you made Jesus God.

Hebrews 8:6-8
But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

Those verses are very clear. Jesus is the mediator of a better covenant, between the Lord God and the house of Israel and the house of Judah. This is not a covenant between Jesus and God. Apparently you made that up because it's not in the scripture.

 

[Peterlag]

Those verses are very clear. Jesus is the mediator of a better covenant, between the Lord God and the house of Israel and the house of Judah. This is not a covenant between Jesus and God. Apparently you made that up because it's not in the scripture.

I did not make it up. Jesus had to believe God to be able to accept the position to be between God and us as a mediator. And there are loads of Scripture on this, but you cannot see any of them if you make Jesus God. Because if he's God... then he never had to be between God and us.

 

[TomL]

I did not make it up. Jesus had to believe God to be able to accept the position to be between God and us as a mediator. And there are loads of Scripture on this, but you cannot see any of them if you make Jesus God. Because if he's God... then he never had to be between God and us.

I think you are conflating persons and class of beings

 

[Peterlag]

I think you are conflating persons and class of beings

I think I'm over your head because I teach how to walk by the spirit.

 

[TomL]

I think I'm over your head because I teach how to walk by the spirit.

I think you do not know what you are talking about

Are you confessing Christs lordship?