Yeah it does, providing you read it correctly.
What? Who said anything about God changing His mind?
Are we Predestined?
- Thread starter TibiasDad
- Start date
FreeInChrist
Active Member
Because of your predestination preferences I will answer this way.
No that cannot change.... Under the Predestinating of God... foreknowledge has nothing to do with anything.
He knows who he will predestine for salvation and who he will not. Nothing man can do can change that because God is not ‘bound’ by His foreknowledge — His foreknowledge exists because He eternally and freely decided every detail of history, including exactly who His elect are. Nothing surprises Him, nothing constrains Him, and nothing can ever change His perfect plan.
So the mistake is turning God’s perfect freedom and sovereignty into God being handcuffed by something outside Himself. The Bible never teaches that.
The number does not change but not because he knows it. Similarly, God knows who will believe in Him and love Him and that is certain. But that is not certain because he knows it; rather, it is certain because of the choices made by those who will believe in Him and love Him. Foreknowledge is not causative.
Are you omniscient? Are you the creator? Horrible anology
Thats exactly what you do if your going to claim God is omniscient yet has not determined the future.
That is the absolute nonsense that comes from your determinism.
FreeInChrist
Active Member
If you see free will in that , I have a bridge to sell you in Pittsburgh.
No it don't???? Where did you go to school? And yes YOU'RE called according to His purpose and Romans 8:28-30 describes the process whereby YOU'RE called and it begins with those who love God (v.28).
God's omniscience is not a function of not dependent upon any predestined future.
civic
Active Member
Worse answer as it revealed the flaws in your argument
TibiasDad
Active Member
No, God is only bound by his own character and being. God created free beings and he does not infringe upon that freedom, though he knows (by means beyond our understanding) what we will do with our freedom.
Doug
...so how do you explain that HE has us supposedly created as fallen in Adam, suffering pain and death which are the wages of being a sinner, ie, enslaved to sin, even in the womb.
Sounds like infringement to me ....
The future is open and unsettled because it is libertarian and incalculable and doesn't exist yet to know. Only the (progressive) present exists because God didn't create the future yet.
Your objection only works if foreknowledge requires a substantive future that already exists.
It doesn’t.
God just knows, because God cannot be wrong.
God exists for no exterior reason at all, ie self-exists. So does His exhaustive (simple) foreknowledge.
atpollard
Active Member
How does Prophesy work?
How can God write Psalm 22 through David and have Jesus live what it describes a thousand years later?
You claim "The future is open and unsettled because it is libertarian and incalculable and doesn't exist yet to know." but God did know the future ... in detail:
[Psalm 22:6-8, 12-18, 30-31 ESV]
6 But I am a worm and not a man, scorned by mankind and despised by the people.
- [Luke 23:21, 23 ESV] 21 but they kept shouting, "Crucify, crucify him!" ... 23 But they were urgent, demanding with loud cries that he should be crucified. And their voices prevailed.
- [Luk 23:35-36 ESV] 35 And the people stood by, watching, but the rulers scoffed at him, saying, "He saved others; let him save himself, if he is the Christ of God, his Chosen One!" 36 The soldiers also mocked him, coming up and offering him sour wine
- [Mark 15:29-30 ESV] 29 And those who passed by derided him, wagging their heads and saying, "Aha! You who would destroy the temple and rebuild it in three days, 30 save yourself, and come down from the cross!"
12 Many bulls encompass me; strong bulls of Bashan surround me;
- [Matthew 27:27-31 ESV] 27 Then the soldiers of the governor took Jesus into the governor's headquarters, and they gathered the whole battalion before him. 28 And they stripped him and put a scarlet robe on him, 29 and twisting together a crown of thorns, they put it on his head and put a reed in his right hand. And kneeling before him, they mocked him, saying, "Hail, King of the Jews!" 30 And they spit on him and took the reed and struck him on the head. 31 And when they had mocked him, they stripped him of the robe and put his own clothes on him and led him away to crucify him.
14 I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint; my heart is like wax; it is melted within my breast;
- [John 19:34 ESV] 34 But one of the soldiers pierced his side with a spear, and at once there came out blood and water.
16 For dogs encompass me; a company of evildoers encircles me; they have pierced my hands and feet--
- [Luke 24:39-40 ESV] 39 See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself. Touch me, and see. For a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have." 40 And when he had said this, he showed them his hands and his feet.
18 they divide my garments among them, and for my clothing they cast lots. ...
- [John 19:23-24 ESV] 23 When the soldiers had crucified Jesus, they took his garments and divided them into four parts, one part for each soldier; also his tunic. But the tunic was seamless, woven in one piece from top to bottom, 24 so they said to one another, "Let us not tear it, but cast lots for it to see whose it shall be." This was to fulfill the Scripture which says, "They divided my garments among them, and for my clothing they cast lots." So the soldiers did these things,
30 Posterity shall serve him; it shall be told of the Lord to the coming generation;
31 they shall come and proclaim his righteousness to a people yet unborn, that he has done it.
- [Acts 2:36-41 ESV] 36 Let all the house of Israel therefore know for certain that God has made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you crucified." 37 Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, "Brothers, what shall we do?" 38 And Peter said to them, "Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 For the promise is for you and for your children and for all who are far off, everyone whom the Lord our God calls to himself." 40 And with many other words he bore witness and continued to exhort them, saying, "Save yourselves from this crooked generation." 41 So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls.
civic
Active Member
Amen
FreeInChrist
Active Member
Amen, amen
TibiasDad
Active Member
God does not infringe on the choice that our first parents made. The effects of that choice puts us where we are now.
Doug
If God foreknows at all, why not in detail? God has detailed foreknowledge, like a vivid dream. But it doesn't mean He's observing a supposedly existing future to gain that detail. The future is empty because it didn't happen yet to see. The future is open and unsettled.
Like I said,
God just knows, because God cannot be wrong.
God exists for no exterior reason at all, ie self-exists. So does His exhaustive (simple) foreknowledge.
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