Are vessels of wrath able to become vessels of mercy?

[brightfame52]

Heb 11:5–6By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God. But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

All who come to faith please God

Nothing can overturn that fact Rom 8:8

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

 

[brightfame52]

Simply stated, they were like brute beasts, and like the brute born beasts, they will perish.


2 Peter 2:12 (NIV84) — 12 But these men blaspheme in matters they do not understand. They are like brute beasts, creatures of instinct, born only to be caught and destroyed, and like beasts they too will perish.

Its plain, they were born to be taken and destroyed, go into eternal ruin

 

[TomL]

Its plain, they were born to be taken and destroyed, go into eternal ruin

Nope

Simply stated, they were like brute beasts, and like the brute born beasts, they will perish.


2 Peter 2:12 (NIV84) — 12 But these men blaspheme in matters they do not understand. They are like brute beasts, creatures of instinct, born only to be caught and destroyed, and like beasts they too will perish.

 

[TomL]

Nothing can overturn that fact Rom 8:8

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

When one believes, however, they please God

Heb 11:5–6By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God. But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

All who come to faith please God.

 

[TomL]

Its plain, they were born to be taken and destroyed, go into eternal ruin

Nope

God does not desire men should go go into eternal ruin

2 Pet 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

1 Tim 2:3–4 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

Ezek 18:23 Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord God: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?

Ezek 18:32 For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord God: wherefore turn yourselves, and live
.
Ezek 33:11Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord God, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

John 3:16–17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

 

[brightfame52]

Nope

Yes, you cant see it, but its there

 

[TomL]

Yes, you cant see it, but its there

Simply stated, they were like brute beasts, and like the brute born beasts, they will perish.


2 Peter 2:12 (NIV84) — 12 But these men blaspheme in matters they do not understand. They are like brute beasts, creatures of instinct, born only to be caught and destroyed, and like beasts they too will perish.

 

[brightfame52]

Simply stated, they were like brute beasts, and like the brute born beasts, they will perish.

They were born to be taken and destroyed in hell for sin, they were no more but brute beast b4 God.

 

[TomL]

They were born to be taken and destroyed in hell for sin, they were no more but brute beast b4 God.

Not stated

And God clearly announces his desire that men not perish


2 Pet 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

1 Tim 2:3–4 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

Ezek 18:23 Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord God: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?

Ezek 18:32 For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord God: wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye.

Ezek 33:11 Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord God, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

With such a desire to make men unconditionally determined for destruction is not rational.

Clearly there are conditions upon which men are either saved or destroyed.

 

[brightfame52]

Not stated

Clearly stated 2 Pet 2:12

12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption

The word made here is the greek word gennaō:
of men who fathered children

1. to be born
2. to be begotten

Also its in the perfect passive. Do you know what a perfect tense passive verb is ?
John Gill writes:

made to be taken and destroyed; or, as it may be rendered, "to take and destroy"; as beasts and birds of prey, such as lions, tigers, wolves, bears, vultures, hawks, &c. to which abusers of themselves with mankind, ravishers of women, extortioners, oppressors, thieves, robbers, and plunderers of men's properties, may be compared: or "to be taken and destroyed"; that is, they are made or appointed to be taken in the net and snare of Satan, are vessels of wrath fitted for destruction, and are afore ordained to condemnation and ruin: and this being their case, they https://biblehub.com/commentaries/2_peter/2-12.htm

 

[TomL]

Clearly stated 2 Pet 2:12

12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption

The word made here is the greek word gennaō:
of men who fathered children

1. to be born
2. to be begotten

Also its in the perfect passive. Do you know what a perfect tense passive verb is ?
John Gill writes:

You left some meaning off

of men who father children has them making children, i.e., begetting others

γεννάω (gennaō), VB. become the parent of. fut.act. γεννήσω; aor.act. ἐγέννησα; perf.act. γεγέννηκά; aor.pass. ἐγεννήθην; perf.mid. γεγέννημαι. Hebrew equivalent: ילד (66). LTW γεννάω (Children), γεννάω (Regeneration). Verb Usage 1. to bear (give birth)† — to give birth to. See also τίκτω. Related Topics: Birth; Bear Children. Jn 16:21 ὅταν δὲ γεννήσῃ τὸ παιδίον, 2. to father — to become the male agent responsible for the conception of a child (and its eventual entry into the world). Related Topics: Mother; Abba; Father. Mt 1:2 Ἀβραὰμ ἐγέννησεν τὸν Ἰσαάκ, Ac 7:8 καὶ οὕτως ἐγέννησεν τὸν Ἰσαὰκ Heb 1:5 ἐγὼ σήμερον γεγέννηκά σε, Heb 5:5 ἐγὼ σήμερον γεγέννηκά σε· 1 Jn 5:1 πᾶς ὁ ἀγαπῶν τὸν γεννήσαντα 3. to be fathered — to be or become conceived due to male agency. Jn 3:4 Πῶς δύναται ἄνθρωπος γεννηθῆναι γέρων ὤν; Ga 4:23 ὁ μὲν ἐκ τῆς παιδίσκης κατὰ σάρκα γεγέννηται, 1 Jn 3:9 πᾶς ὁ γεγεννημένος ἐκ τοῦ θεοῦ 1 Jn 5:1 τοῦ θεοῦ γεγέννηται, …
LXGNTLEX

 

[civic]

I stick with what I said.

And you are wrong as Paul declares we were all children of wrath just like everyone else.

Ephesians 2:1-3
Among them we too all previously lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the rest.
John 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life. Whoever rejects the Son will not see life. Instead, the wrath of God remains on him.”

Belief is the key to having Gods wrath removed.

next fallacy.......

hope this helps !!!

 

[brightfame52]

You left some meaning off

No I didnt

 

[brightfame52]

And you are wrong as Paul declares we were all children of wrath just like everyone else.

Yeah by nature the elect are children of wrath, but not vessels of wrath being fitted for destruction, and they are never UNDER GODS WRATH

 

[TomL]

No I didnt

This Greek scholarship shows you did

You left some meaning off

of men who father children has them making children, i.e., begetting others

γεννάω (gennaō), VB. become the parent of. fut.act. γεννήσω; aor.act. ἐγέννησα; perf.act. γεγέννηκά; aor.pass. ἐγεννήθην; perf.mid. γεγέννημαι. Hebrew equivalent: ילד (66). LTW γεννάω (Children), γεννάω (Regeneration). Verb Usage 1. to bear (give birth)† — to give birth to. See also τίκτω. Related Topics: Birth; Bear Children. Jn 16:21 ὅταν δὲ γεννήσῃ τὸ παιδίον, 2. to father — to become the male agent responsible for the conception of a child (and its eventual entry into the world). Related Topics: Mother; Abba; Father. Mt 1:2 Ἀβραὰμ ἐγέννησεν τὸν Ἰσαάκ, Ac 7:8 καὶ οὕτως ἐγέννησεν τὸν Ἰσαὰκ Heb 1:5 ἐγὼ σήμερον γεγέννηκά σε, Heb 5:5 ἐγὼ σήμερον γεγέννηκά σε· 1 Jn 5:1 πᾶς ὁ ἀγαπῶν τὸν γεννήσαντα 3. to be fathered — to be or become conceived due to male agency. Jn 3:4 Πῶς δύναται ἄνθρωπος γεννηθῆναι γέρων ὤν; Ga 4:23 ὁ μὲν ἐκ τῆς παιδίσκης κατὰ σάρκα γεγέννηται, 1 Jn 3:9 πᾶς ὁ γεγεννημένος ἐκ τοῦ θεοῦ 1 Jn 5:1 τοῦ θεοῦ γεγέννηται, …
LXGNTLEX

 

[brightfame52]

This Greek scholarship shows you did

Nothing left off. They were born to be destroyed as is all the vessels of wrath

 

[TomL]

Nothing left off. They were born to be destroyed as is all the vessels of wrath

You failed to address this

This Greek scholarship shows you did

You left some meaning off

of men who father children has them making children, i.e., begetting others

γεννάω (gennaō), VB. become the parent of. fut.act. γεννήσω; aor.act. ἐγέννησα; perf.act. γεγέννηκά; aor.pass. ἐγεννήθην; perf.mid. γεγέννημαι. Hebrew equivalent: ילד (66). LTW γεννάω (Children), γεννάω (Regeneration). Verb Usage 1. to bear (give birth)† — to give birth to. See also τίκτω. Related Topics: Birth; Bear Children. Jn 16:21 ὅταν δὲ γεννήσῃ τὸ παιδίον, 2. to father — to become the male agent responsible for the conception of a child (and its eventual entry into the world). Related Topics: Mother; Abba; Father. Mt 1:2 Ἀβραὰμ ἐγέννησεν τὸν Ἰσαάκ, Ac 7:8 καὶ οὕτως ἐγέννησεν τὸν Ἰσαὰκ Heb 1:5 ἐγὼ σήμερον γεγέννηκά σε, Heb 5:5 ἐγὼ σήμερον γεγέννηκά σε· 1 Jn 5:1 πᾶς ὁ ἀγαπῶν τὸν γεννήσαντα 3. to be fathered — to be or become conceived due to male agency. Jn 3:4 Πῶς δύναται ἄνθρωπος γεννηθῆναι γέρων ὤν; Ga 4:23 ὁ μὲν ἐκ τῆς παιδίσκης κατὰ σάρκα γεγέννηται, 1 Jn 3:9 πᾶς ὁ γεγεννημένος ἐκ τοῦ θεοῦ 1 Jn 5:1 τοῦ θεοῦ γεγέννηται, …
LXGNTLEX

 

[brightfame52]

You failed to address this

They were made/born for destruction 2 Pet 2:12