brightfame52
Active Member
Ive read Jer 18 maybe 100 times over the past 4 decades
Are vessels of wrath able to become vessels of mercy?
- Thread starter Swordman
- Start date
FreeInChrist
Active Member
Matt 15:25 But He answered and said, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”
If they were truly lost.... why did God send Jesus to them .... You claim it is impossible for them to be redeemed yet
God seems to not know what you do
brightfame52
Active Member
Thats the elect. So your question makes no sense, those in 1 Pet 2 8 and the vessels pf wrath are not elect
You're just doubling down without an excuse.
Merely disobeying is not stumbling. They can repent if it's not too late, libertarianly.
But it is these *persistent* prior/initial disobedient ones *that were appointed* to stumble at the stone ie Christ in particular here. ...
That's why we see the disobedient appointed to obedience.
Psalm 81:11–12
But My people *did not listen* to My voice; Israel would not submit, *so* I let them go in their stubbornness.
1 Peter 2:8
And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were *appointed*.
Romans 9:31-32
Romans 9:31 But Israel, which **followed after the law** of righteousness, *hath not attained* to the law of righteousness.
--Romans 9:32
Wherefore?
**Because** they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
2 Thessalonians 2:11
And *for this cause* God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
brightfame52
Active Member
Giving u the truth, which you trying to change
My (and your) statement was puppet-actuated by God according to you, not of works lest any man should boast. Correct?
Who are you to question my view if it was God that actuated me? So your questioning only proves that you are libertarian, not actuated.
FreeInChrist
Active Member
IF THEY were the elect they were not lost.... as it is He did not get all of them back and you better thank your lucky stars for if He did you would be headed elsewhere.
And if you dont understand this ask someone else
brightfame52
Active Member
You can say all you want
brightfame52
Active Member
Look I dont know what you talking about
FreeInChrist
Active Member
You simply cannot understand. So many times you siad you did not understand what I posted.
You have memorized half a dozen or so verses and what you were told they mean and anything else is basically like pigeon English to you.
I have news for you.... YOU were told wrong.
You have no idea what Jerimiah 18 even means.... though I gave it to you twice.
Yes, in the book of Jeremiah, specifically chapter 18, God uses the metaphor of a potter reshaping clay to illustrate how He can change and mold His people according to His will. This signifies that just as a potter can form new vessels from flawed clay, God can reshape and transform individuals and nations.
His chosen were never predetermined. The were chosen for the opportunitires that would get them that covenent elected name.
You have it so backwards because the bible is full of examples of how exactly God uses the freewill for His purposes....
You are not giving the truth. You need a good old-fashioned bible study to learn.
FreeInChrist
Active Member
Read the next reply 70... I beat you to it when you said Look I dont know what you talking about...
I am not the most difficult person to understand here... yet God blinds you to me.... Why? You are wrong.
brightfame52
Active Member
Thats u
brightfame52
Active Member
I cant understand you, you all over the place
Their disobedience is why they were hardened. In case you forgot the apostles were Jews.
Ok. Let me ask a few questions.
Were you born that way?
If so, how do you know?
Is it better to be born elect rather than "born and created for wrath"?
You address nothing as usual
You are dodging once again
Falsehood as you do not believe them all
You failed to address scripture and did not address a single point.
First, according to scripture, God desires all to be saved
1 Tim 2:3–4 This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
2 Pet 3:9 The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.
Ezek 18:23 Do I have any pleasure in the death of the wicked,” declares the Lord God, “rather than that he should turn from his ways and live?
Ezek 33:11 Say to them, ‘As I live!’ declares the Lord God, ‘I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that the wicked turn from his way and live. Turn back, turn back from your evil ways! Why then will you die, O house of Israel?’
John 3:16–17 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.
1 John 2:2 and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.
Matt 18:14 So it is not the will of your Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones perish.
If he desires all will be saved he cannot determine they will be lost
second
1 Peter 2:6–8 (NASB 95) — 6 For this is contained in Scripture: “BEHOLD, I LAY IN ZION A CHOICE STONE, A PRECIOUS CORNER stone, AND HE WHO BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED.” 7 This precious value, then, is for you who believe; but for those who disbelieve, “THE STONE WHICH THE BUILDERS REJECTED, THIS BECAME THE VERY CORNER stone,” 8 and, “A STONE OF STUMBLING AND A ROCK OF OFFENSE”; for they stumble because they are disobedient to the word, and to this doom they were also appointed.
It is their disbelief that is the reason for their doom.
Third
When one believes God is pleased
.
Heb 11:6 And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him
God is pleased when men believe and are then regenerated
And that person is not left in the flesh
Believers are not in the flesh when they believe but are when remaining in unbelief
In your theology, God chooses, saves, regenerates those in the flesh.
Unlike your approach, scriptures contrary to your view are posted, and your verses are addressed.
The Jews of Romans 9 in case you forgot were involved in denying Christ.
brightfame52
Active Member
No, their disobedience was appointed, determined 1 Pet 2:8
And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
τιθέναι τινα εἰς τί, to appoint one to (destine one to be) anything, passive, 1 Peter 2:8;
G5087 - tithēmi - Strong's Greek Lexicon (KJV)
G5087 - τίθημι títhēmi, tith'-ay-mee; a prolonged form of a primary θέω théō theh'-o (which is used only as alternate in certain tenses); to place (in the widest application, literally and figuratively; properly, in a passive or horizontal posture, and thus different...
www.blueletterbible.org
“A stone of stumbling,
and a rock of offense.” They stumble because they disobey the word, as they were destined to do.ESV
brightfame52
Active Member
You havent provided one verse that states what you say
No, their disobedience was appointed, determined 1 Pet 2:8
And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
τιθέναι τινα εἰς τί, to appoint one to (destine one to be) anything, passive, 1 Peter 2:8;
andG5087 - tithēmi - Strong's Greek Lexicon (KJV)
G5087 - τίθημι títhēmi, tith'-ay-mee; a prolonged form of a primary θέω théō theh'-o (which is used only as alternate in certain tenses); to place (in the widest application, literally and figuratively; properly, in a passive or horizontal posture, and thus different...
“A stone of stumbling,
and a rock of offense.” They stumble because they disobey the word, as they were destined to do.ESV
Yes, you are correct that they were destined/appointed/determined to stumble because they were disobedient, ... but they were not initially made disobedient. That's what you have to prove.
Similar threads
