FreeInChrist
Active Member
Is that your final answer?
You seem to have forgotten what Jerimiah 18 had to say and how it relates to the subject at hand of Are vessels of wrath able to become vessels of mercy?
You best get out your bible because Jeremiah 18 is actually the key that unlocks Romans 9.
Paul simply isn’t inventing a new idea there. He is deliberately quoting and building on Jeremiah’s potter-and-clay picture. And if you read Jeremiah first, it changes how Romans 9 sounds completely.
Let’s walk through it slowly, shall we?
Jeremiah 18: The original potter story
As we set the scene we find God sending Jeremiah to a potter’s house.We read that in Jer 18:3–4,
“the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter. So he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.”
But @brightfame52 , please notice something very important:
The original marred clay is not thrown away..... It is reshaped!
IOW~ Same clay. New vessel. Already we see the marred vessel did not have a fixed destiny — but was reworked.
God Then explains what it means.
Do not skip this crucial part.
God interprets the metaphor Himself.....................
Jer 18:6 “Am I not able, house of Israel, to deal with you as this potter does?” declares the Lord. “Behold, like the clay in the potter’s hand, so are you in My hand, house of Israel.
Do you understand ....So the clay = people/nations.
Now watch carefully what God says next.
The key verses , Jeremiah (18:7–10)
These verses settle your question directly.
Case 1 — Judgment can be reversed
vs7–8 “At what instant I shall speak concerning a nation… to pluck up, pull down, and destroy it;If that nation turn from their evil, I will repent of the evil”
So we see...
Declared destruction to repentance to mercy
Wrath to mercy
NOW
Case 2 — Blessing can be reversed
vs9–10
“At what instant I shall speak concerning a nation… to build and plant it;
If it do evil… then I will repent of the good”
So here we see
Mercy to rebellion to judgment
Are you beginning to see that this is not an either or situation with God, but a changeable one?
God explicitly teaches destiny is conditional on response.
That the clay is not predetermined. It is responsive. IOW The potter reshapes according to what the clay becomes. As God reshapes based on our responses.
Now go back to Romans 9
Paul quotes this very imagery:vs 21,Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use?
But Paul's Jewish readers already knew Jeremiah 18. So they would not hear, “fixed eternal fate”
They would hear ,“God has the right to reshape people and nations based on their response”
Which is the opposite of your answer.
And did you go and read beyond Romans 9? I keep telling you you need to read more and not cut off where
it seems to fit your ideas.
Immediately after Romans 9, see 10, and11
Romans 10
“Whosoever shall call…”Romans 11
“They also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in again”Which is exactly Jeremiah’s principle off turn →and be restored.
Their fate was not predestined .
Even Pharaoh fits this pattern
People think Pharaoh proves predestination as I am sure yoiu do but Pharaoh hardens his own heart first, then God confirms that choice.Same idea:
persistent resistance leads to judicial hardening ...... Not “created doomed”
So again to the question at hand. Can vessels of wrath become vessels of mercy?
Jeremiah 18 says explicitly .... YES.
God Himself says He will reverse destruction when people turn.
So Paul cannot be teaching the opposite in Romans 9 ... he’s quoting this very passage.
Think of it like this:
Not: God molds two lumps into one saved, one damned forever
But: God keeps working the same clay until it either yields or resists
Mercy is always open.
That fits: God’s character , the gospel invitation , and that Scripture never portrays God as arbitrarily damning people
