Appeasement of a Monster God?
- Thread starter Fitzpatrick
- Start date
ImCo:
there is only one fate for sin, sinfulness and sinners - their destruction.
Sinners are destroyed by HIS wrath OR by HIS grace in changing them from sinners to holy ones by their redemption and sanctification.
Those who can be changed by redemption and sanctification will be; by HIM putting off the judgement day until they are holy, Matt 13:27-30. They are / were never condemned nor under HIS wrath because they had already put their faith in HIM as their LORD and Saviour before they chose to sin: Jn 3:18...
Those who are under HIS wrath for sinning the unforgivable sin of rebuking HIM as a liar and a false GOD thus becoming eternally subject to HIS wrath and condemnation will be destroyed in hell, as condemned already, Jn 3:18.
Thus after the great and terrible judgement day, there will be no more evil, sin nor evil people nor sinners left in HIS heavenly realms, all will have been destroyed one way or another.
Dizerner
Active Member
Sinners are not destroyed by grace, whoever believes would not perish.
Scripture says we were all a child of wrath by nature.
But God held the blame against us, not Jesus, and Jesus took the bullet.
Dizerner
Active Member
And Jesus took it.
Dizerner
Active Member
Exactly.
It sure does - which means that when we chose to be sinners our nature changed to become enslaved to sin so if nature was all we had to go by, then we were subject to wrath
BUT
other verses say that even so, we were never condemned, ie, never under HIS wrath but rather under HIS grace and mercy, HIS promise of our salvation called election.
Sure, we had earned HIS wrath if not elect but as elect we were never under or liable to HIS wrath...
So you don't believe in substitution. Also, Jesus did this in spite of all the pain and suffering he faced from the moment He was arrested until He was on the cross. I didn't say God was angry at Him. What was held against us, which is death for sin and all that comes with that, was instead held against Christ. That is, He bore our sin as the innocent Lamb of God, was crushed by God (As Isaiah 53 says), and willingly (totally willingly) bore it, and could still pray what He prayed. If you cannot figure out why He would, you need to do more soul searching. Think about what Paul wrote to the church about their pride. He said that they should be humble as Christ was humble and humbled Himself in coming to Earth in the first place, to be spited by men, and crucified on a cross for what is basically no reason, outside of God's plan of redemption.
I never said God was angry at Him. Not once. The Bible doesn't say that God hates a person directly, but for what they do does He hate them. Since Jesus didn't do anything evil or wicked, then God didn't hate Him. However, He hates sin. Jesus bore our sin, and as far as the sin is concerned, Jesus faced God's wrath. Again, not at Jesus but at the sin. Read Isaiah 53 again. It says that the Jews look at Christ and see a man stricken by God, punished by God. God, through Isaiah in a "Thus says the Lord" is clear that that is not the case, for it is all about Christ's sacrifice for us. It wasn't punishment. And Jesus faced this all willingly. The faithful servant for a time. Consider Moses at Horeb. The first time He struck the rock symbolized Jesus coming as a servant, the second time when God told Moses to speak to the rock, that is Jesus as King. You don't strike a King, you speak to them. Moses symbolically struck God's Son as king, and God punished him by not allowing him entrance to the promised land. God did a lot that were symbolic prophecies of Jesus and the future. So if you wonder why God got so angry when Moses struck the rock that second time, to the point that his punishment was so great, it was because of this.
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SteveB
Active Member
This photo describes the truth regarding this issue.
The Gospel is not God hatefully saying:
" Turn to Me or I will send you to Hell."
The gospel is God's Mercy and Grace saying:
"You're already on your way to Hell, turn to Me,
and I will save you."
Attachments
SteveB
Active Member
Me?
Jesus.
Mat 25:41 WEB Then he will say also to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire which is prepared for the devil and his angels;
Mar 9:42-48 WEB 42 “Whoever will cause one of these little ones who believe in me to stumble, it would be better for him if he were thrown into the sea with a millstone hung around his neck. 43 If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life maimed, rather than having your two hands to go into Gehenna, into the unquenchable fire, 44 ‘where their worm doesn’t die, and the fire is not quenched.’ 45 If your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life lame, rather than having your two feet to be cast into Gehenna, into the fire that will never be quenched— 46 ‘where their worm doesn’t die, and the fire is not quenched.’ 47 If your eye causes you to stumble, throw it out. It is better for you to enter into God’s Kingdom with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into the Gehenna of fire, 48 ‘where their worm doesn’t die, and the fire is not quenched.’
Mat 8:12 but the children of the Kingdom will be thrown out into the outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”
Mat 13:42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Mat 13:50 and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”
Mat 22:13 Then the king said to the servants, ‘Bind him hand and foot, take him away, and throw him into the outer darkness. That is where the weeping and grinding of teeth will be.’
Mat 24:51 and will cut him in pieces and appoint his portion with the hypocrites. That is where the weeping and grinding of teeth will be.
Mat 25:30 Throw out the unprofitable servant into the outer darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’
Luk 13:28 There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth when you see Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and all the prophets in God’s Kingdom, and yourselves being thrown outside.
Rev 20:11-15 WEB 11 I saw a great white throne and him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. There was found no place for them. 12 I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and they opened books. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged out of the things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it. Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them. They were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. 15 If anyone was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire.
Rev 21:8 WEB But for the cowardly, unbelieving, sinners, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their part is in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”
according to Jesus, it appears it was prepared for the devil and his angels.
Mat 25:41 WEB Then he will say also to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire which is prepared for the devil and his angels;
SteveB
Active Member
If God was not angry at Christ for death and sin and all that comes with it, ... then what does holding it against Christ mean?
God made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us. God holds sin against us, which results in our death. Out of love, He sent His beloved son, and on the cross He held our sin to Christ's account, not guilt, but by way of the penalty which is death. Since Jesus was not guilty, His sacrifice was that of the unblemished, spotless lamb to whom the High Priest has imputed the sins of those who will believe on Him.
Dizerner
Active Member
Yeah, this is what I find from those who fight against PSA.
They double speak like crazy because it's literally insane to abandon the atonement which is the distinctive belief of Christianity.
So Jesus does the little something-something, cha-cha-cha, that is super good and helps us and is really loving, by dying.
But we can't say that he actually took punishment or paid for sin or received what we deserved.
Because that gives bad emotional vibes and makes God a big ole meanie... and obliterates the Trinity, or something.
As if God isn't big enough to handle it, and holy enough to demand it.
But in our heart—in our conscience—we instinctively deep down know we are evil, and that the cost is just that great.
civic
Active Member
Wow I’m rereading what RC taught , how heretical yikes
civic
Active Member
How appalling and heretical .Here is some more
21. R. C. Sproul: "It was as if there was a cry from heaven - excuse my language, but I can be no more accurate than to say - it was as if Jesus heard the words 'God Damn You.' Because that's what it meant to be cursed, to be damned, to be under the anathema of the Father. As I said, I don't understand that, but I know that it's true."
R. C. Sproul, "And God Cursed Him," April 19, 2019, https://www.ligonier.org/blog/god-cursed-him/, Accessed 03 December 2019.
22. R. C. Sproul: "God is too holy to even look at iniquity. God the Father turned His back on the Son, cursing Him to the pit of hell while He hung on the cross. Here was the Son’s “descent into hell.” Here the fury of God raged against Him. His scream was the scream of the damned. For us."
R. C. Sproul, "Treasuring Redemption’s Price," September 13, 2009, https://www.ligonier.org/blog/treasuring-redemptions-price/, Accessed 30 November 2019.
contains addition quotes from other writers
Is It Biblical To Say Jesus Was Damned By God On The Cross?
1. The Holy Spirit, through the Apostle Paul: "Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us - for it is ...christisallinall.blogspot.com
