Correct, Ransom theory is definitely not PSA theory.
Appeasement of a Monster God?
- Thread starter Fitzpatrick
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civic
Well-known member
Amen
The early church Fathers held to ransom, moral influence and recapitulation
civic
Well-known member
Correct nothing penal for many centuries later
Yep, Anselm's satisfaction theory had to come around 1100 a.d. as a sort of forerunner of PSA
civic
Well-known member
Ditto
Pancho Frijoles
Well-known member
If God had sent Esther to the world to preach the only way to man’s salvation, and PSA was the only way to be saved, we would expect Esther to have preached PSA.
So it is absolutely natural and logical to expect Jesus to make of PSA the center of his preaching, if PSA is essential.
Furthermore, if Jesus gave sermons specifically on the topic of forgiveness and salvation several times, it would be more than logical to expect PSA be taught CLEARLY and REPEATEDLY.
In regard to Psalm 51, it is more than logical to expect that the longest ever text on forgiveness in the Hebrew Bible, revealed by the man who had been promised the appearance of the Messiah from his descent, should put PSA at the center.
PSA, though, is absent from Psalm 51. So, either believing in PSA is wrong, or irrelevant to salvation.
Progressive revelation does not imply that God hides for millennia a thing that is ESSENTIAL for man’s salvation.
It means that God deepens the understanding, changes language, images, metaphors, secondary laws, rituals, social organization, forms, ways, emphasis.
The understanding of King David may have been more limited than the understanding of Paul or your understanding. But King David, Paul and you are saved on the very same grounds: God’s grace, extended to those who reach out to Him with contrite heart, willing to change their ways.
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civic
Well-known member
Yes mercy , grace, forgiveness, love, reconciliation, substitution, ransom , Passover is what we see taught throughout scripture regarding atonement , nothing penal, nothing about “ justice “ being served via atonement. It’s a mid evil model and how they taught justice/ penal law and invented those ideas from their culture and imposed them into scripture.
Pancho Frijoles
Well-known member
I do think that the Bible resorts to a penal language.
@Dizerner is honest and sincere in taking those verses and thinking PSA is taught in the Bible.
I just think he fails to understand that such language illustrates only ONE of the analogies the Bible uses to speak about the unfathomable extent of the mission of Jesus.
By the same token, the language of paying a ransom clearly exists in the Bible, but it is another analogy.
If taken literally, we could criticize the theory of ransom as we criticize the theory of PSA.
Both are useful models to approach a subject that is well beyond our understanding: the Love of God, manifested through the Love of Jesus for all of us.
That’s why I think that Jesus is much more interested in our commitment to follow Him, than in our theoretical models to explain his mission.
Pancho Frijoles
Well-known member
One of the ways to understand Jesus mission, that non-Christians like me feel more connected with, is his mission as a Messenger.
It goes like this
Of course… it is supported by Jesus Himself!
“For this reason I was born, and for this reason I came into the world, to bear witness to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth hears My voice.” (John 18:37)
There are more verses, as many as those for the PSA and ransom models.
It goes like this
- God sent Jesus with a Message about how to be saved (forgiven, reconciled, transformed to a new person).
- Jesus knew that delivering his Message would cost his life.
- Yet, Jesus went ahead and delivered his Message. He sacrificed so that we could get the Message.
- His Message is not only what He said, but how He lived: his own person, his example.
- So, every time we look at the cross, we are inspired to repent and crucify the old man to live a new life.
Of course… it is supported by Jesus Himself!
“For this reason I was born, and for this reason I came into the world, to bear witness to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth hears My voice.” (John 18:37)
There are more verses, as many as those for the PSA and ransom models.
civic
Well-known member
PSA only has 2 verses. One in Isaiah 53 that is used and one in psalm 22. Nothing at all that hints at it in the NT.
