An Important Point about Original Sin and our Fallen Nature

[civic]

A sinner is one who obeys his sin nature.

And, sometimes refuses to supply chapter and verse when claiming to not have a sin nature.

No sin nature in the Bible

 

[GeneZ]

No sin nature in the Bible

No chapter and verses in the Bible either....

And, no word "communion" as well.

Sin nature was an invented term. Invented to cover for the meaning of doctrines to be found in chapter and verses in the Bible.

"Sin nature" describes the nature that makes able those who are grieving the Spirit, to find ways to be contrary in their lust to prove
themselves superior, to what they see as 'mundane' thinking found in content edified believers..

 

[Bob Carabbio]

"For just as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive."

1 Corinthians 15:22​

That in itself is not fallen?

Not even related. Adam didn't effect ME in any way, you either. Just like you, I provided MY OWN SIN, and died.

 

[GeneZ]

Not even related. Adam didn't effect ME in any way, you either. Just like you, I provided MY OWN SIN, and died.

Good for you, Bob!
Good for you!

Congratulations! ................... You're a self made sinner!


.....if he wants to believe that? leave him be.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Congratulations! ................... You're a self made sinner!

Just like you and everybody else - except one..

 

[civic]

Not even related. Adam didn't effect ME in any way, you either. Just like you, I provided MY OWN SIN, and died.

Amen

 

[GeneZ]

Just like you and everybody else - except one..

Until you sinned for the first time?

You had no sin nature?

Is that what you believe?

 

[GeneZ]

Amen

So you had your own personal fall?
You were born without defect from the womb?

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Until you sinned for the first time?

You had no sin nature?

Is that what you believe?

I have a HUMAN NATURE, same as you, Adam, and Jesus. In Jesus' case, he never let his Lust CONCEIVE and become sinful actions like we did.

 

[GeneZ]

I have a HUMAN NATURE, same as you, Adam, and Jesus. In Jesus' case, he never let his Lust CONCEIVE and become sinful actions like we did.

You have a human nature. Sure. Who's power does it live under?

If you would walk in the Spirit you would also find this to be true......

So then if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old things ​

passed-away; behold, new things have come-into-being." 2 Cor 5:17​

I suppose if you can't handle that truth? Human 'stubbornness" will have to do.
And, be the stabilizer for those so inclined.

​

I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. ​

The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved ​

me and gave himself for me." Galatians 2:20​

That is when we discover how the "human nature" will be transformed away from Adam.
All while we must wait for the Resurrection body to be made absolutely free.


grace and peace through truth.........

 

[TedT]

1. Some go to hell.

2. God desires all to be saved.

A humble heart, that leans not unto its own understanding, just accepts both truths without having to feel intellectually justified in harmonizing them.

...but if an new understanding of reality that destroys the need for the double think of accepting opposites to be true at the same time and shines a light on other so called mysteries resolving most of them is presented, then why not give it a perusal, deeper than a cursory denial because it is unfamiliar?

Might not this new understanding be of a revelatory nature as is predicted in the end times in the story in Rev 10:8?

Revelation 10:8 Then the voice that I had heard from heaven spoke to me once more: "Go, take the scroll that lies open in the hand of the angel who is standing on the sea and on the land."

9 So I went to the angel and asked him to give me the little scroll. He said to me, "Take it and eat it. It will turn your stomach sour, but in your mouth it will be as sweet as honey." 10 I took the little scroll from the angel's hand and ate it. It tasted as sweet as honey in my mouth, but when I had eaten it, my stomach turned sour.

Very interesting, no? As a sign of the last days, a "scroll" or KJV "little book" a diminutive form of the Greek biblos or in English, bible, which implies a theological addition to our understanding?

So 'book' or 'scroll' denotes writing which implies a new doctrine to me so I suggest that eating is a metaphor for reading the scroll and is used so we can get the analogy of sweetness and bitterness/ sour taste into the metaphor.

To continue with the thought would take us to: I read the words on the little book and at first I thought they were very wonderful and gratifying (sweet) but later as I dwelt upon their meaning, I found them hard to digest, (sour in my stomach), that is hard to accept in their full meaning.

This leads me to consider that in the last days a new revelation will be learned that at first seems great but then makes us dismayed as we learn its implications, perhaps?

In the context of the next verse:

11 And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings.

this person who read and studied until he understood the words in the little book must go out teaching us the words/ideas/revelation of the little book.

Since we all know the warnings of Rev 22:18:

18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

I'd suggest that this new revelation is probably more correctly called a new understanding of a previous revelation similar to the way we got a new understanding about the Messiah from Jesus and the Apostles.

So I guess we all should be open to a new theological explanation of God's reality about the Church and/or the world, one that is different from all previous explanations we have been taught. Might not such an occurrence put the Churches in the position of the Pharisees, stuck on their old understandings of the theology of the scriptures and rejecting the new understanding written in the little book?

It is funny that people say "it is not in the scriptures" when they really mean "I was never taught an understanding of the scriptures in this way."

 

[Bob Carabbio]

You have a human nature. Sure. Who's power does it live under?

If you would walk in the Spirit you would also find this to be true......

So then if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old things ​

passed-away; behold, new things have come-into-being." 2 Cor 5:17​

I suppose if you can't handle that truth? Human 'stubbornness" will have to do.
And, be the stabilizer for those so inclined.

​

I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. ​

The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved ​

me and gave himself for me." Galatians 2:20​

That is when we discover how the "human nature" will be transformed away from Adam.
All while we must wait for the Resurrection body to be made absolutely free.


grace and peace through truth.........

And your point in all of this is????

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

And your point in all of this is????

Just my guess, but I think he's saying that if we are born without a sin nature, we wouldn't need to become a new creation.

 

[GeneZ]

Just my guess, but I think he's saying that if we are born without a sin nature, we wouldn't need to become a new creation.

......... Well said!

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Just my guess, but I think he's saying that if we are born without a sin nature, we wouldn't need to become a new creation.

And since what we're BORN WITH is a "Human nature" (same as Adam, and Jesus).

AND since people with HUMAN NATURES are subject to TEMPTATION (James 1).

And since (with the exception of Jesus) we often allow our Lusts to conceive and result in sinful actions, we become SINNERS, and fall short of God;'s glory.

Consequently, we require Jesus' SIN OFFERING to be applied to our SIN-ridden state in order to CLEANSE US FROM SIN and render us PERFECT before God in Jesus.

"SIN NATURE" is just something that "Theologians" came up with as part of their "Systematics". I don't need a "Sin Nature" to sin!!!! My Human Nature plus Temptation gets the job done nicely.

 

[TomL]

All humans since Adam have a fallen nature.

“There is no one righteous, not even one;
11 there is no one who understands;
there is no one who seeks God.
12 All have turned away,
they have together become worthless;
there is no one who does good,
not even one.”

1. Given the above, God is under NO obligation to even OFFER salvation to anyone, let alone save us. If God lets us all go to hell for eternal punishment and suffer his wrath, that is justice. It's not hatred. It's justice.

Except in your theology that is what God determined before man even existed

 

[praise_yeshua]

......... Well said!

The first man (Adam) was never the new creature. He was simply innocent but peccable.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

All humans since Adam have a fallen nature.

All Humans including Adam and Jesus have the SAME HUMAN NATURE which has never been any different than the one Adam was created with..

"Fallen Nature" is nothing more than a "Theological paradigm" needed to reinforce this or that Paradigm about Humans.

TWO THINGS were cursed in the Garden. The "Ground", and the Serpent. Adam and Eve were NEVER CURSED, but did (as God had said) immediately die spiritually (not physically), just like all of us do as soon as we begin to SIN.

So the only thing that CHANGED was the Environment, nut anything in HUMAN NATURE.

 

[praise_yeshua]

All Humans including Adam and Jesus have the SAME HUMAN NATURE which has never been any different than the one Adam was created with..

"Fallen Nature" is nothing more than a "Theological paradigm" needed to reinforce this or that Paradigm about Humans.

TWO THINGS were cursed in the Garden. The "Ground", and the Serpent. Adam and Eve were NEVER CURSED, but did (as God had said) immediately die spiritually (not physically), just like all of us do as soon as we begin to SIN.

So the only thing that CHANGED was the Environment, nut anything in HUMAN NATURE.

Adam never died spiritually. He was never the new creature. Adam wasn't Eternal when he was created. He had to eat of the tree of life to maintain his life.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Adam never died spiritually. He was never the new creature. Adam wasn't Eternal when he was created. He had to eat of the tree of life to maintain his life.

Opinion noted.