Praise be to the one whom died for you and me, willingly for his Father, and three days later he was risen again by the Spirit of the Father.
An Important Point about Original Sin and our Fallen Nature
- Thread starter The Rogue Tomato
- Start date
Yes the whole world. Christ is the provision God has made for the salvation of any
mean
Yes
The following is important
2 Corinthians 5:20 (KJV 1900) — 20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ’s stead, be ye reconciled to God.
It must be accepted though a union with Christ based on faith
well
Matthew 12:31–32 (ESV) — 31 Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven people, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. 32 And whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.
In this place, and in Mar. 3:28–30, Jesus states the awful nature of the sin of which they had been guilty. That sin was the sin against the Holy Ghost. It consisted in charging him with being in league with the devil, or accusing him of working his miracles, not by the spirit or power of God, but by the aid of the prince of the devils. It was therefore a direct insult, abuse, or evil speaking against the Holy Ghost—the spirit by which Jesus worked his miracles. That this was what he intended by this sin, at that time, is clear from Mar. 3:30, “BECAUSE they said he had an unclean spirit.” All other sins—all speaking against the Saviour himself—might be remitted. But this sin was clearly against the Holy One; it was alleging that the highest displays of God’s mercy and power were the work of the devil; and it argued, therefore, the deepest depravity of mind. The sin of which he speaks is therefore clearly stated. It was accusing him of working miracles by the aid of the devil, thus dishonouring the Holy Ghost.
Albert Barnes, Notes on the New Testament: Matthew & Mark (ed. Robert Frew; London: Blackie & Son, 1884–1885), 132.
With all this in place, was it even more of insult that they had denied the Son of God, and the Father who indwelled within him? The Pharisees in Jesus day, loved and worshiped the Law, not only the Law, they also loved making up their own traditions they liked to uphold and see themselves as more holier than the others, which causes pride and haughtiness just as Satan was representing.
Thoughts?
Biblelesson
Active member
My thoughts are what Jesus himself said about the Pharisees in the Book of John Chapter 8:
42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I have come here from God. I have not come on my own; God sent me. 43 Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. 44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. 45 Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me! 46 Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don’t you believe me? 47 Whoever belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.”
Biblelesson
Active member
I would say that we are all born sinners with sinful natures. And unless God intervenes we stay that way. Humanity is totally depraved; and our sinful nature affects every part of us.
They are all gone aside, they have all together become filthy; there is none that does good or right, no, not one.
Ps 14:3
Surely there is not a righteous man upon earth who does good and never sins. Eccles 7:20
I hold to the view the view that all people inherit from Adam a sinful nature, not his guilt. That we are not guilty of sin until we start practicing sin in our lives. And I think that varies from person to person.
My thought is that sinning flows inevitably from one’s corrupted human nature. Human nature after the fall of Adam can only sin because the fall corrupted human nature.
I like the way Joel R. Beeke puts it.
Total depravity thus entails moral inability. In ourselves, we are unable to do anything about our condition. We are spiritually impotent by nature, unable and unwilling to save ourselves. We cannot appreciate the Christian faith and we are powerless to work toward our conversion. “We can do nothing but sin,” Calvin says, “until the Holy Spirit forms a new will within us.” No matter how much the natural man is urged by the law or the gospel to believe in Christ and turn from sin, he is “not able, by his own strength. to convert himself, or to prepare himself thereunto” (Westminster Confession, 9.3).
Charles Hodge puts it poignantly: “The rejection of the gospel is as clear proof of moral depravity as inability to see the sun at noon is proof of blindness.” The natural man may want to be free of some sin and of the consequences of sin; he may even expend some effort in that direction. But he is too much a slave to it. He is not simply “going lost” or “dying,” he is lost and is dead in trespasses and sins (Eph. 2:1).
Every person in the world is by nature a slave of sin. The world, by nature, is held in sin’s grip. What a shock to our complacency—that everything of us by nature belongs to sin. Our silences belong to sin, our omissions belong to sin, our talents belong to sin, our actions belong to sin. Every facet of our personalities belongs to sin; it owns us and dominates us. We are its servants.
Total depravity is active in us. It is not simply the absence of righteousness, but the presence of corruption. Our depravity is enormously creative and inventive, ever devising new ways of violating God’s will. It is a growing cancer within us—a rampant, productive, energetic, and self-propagating entity. It is fire out of control—a living, fierce, powerful force. In the horrors of the Holocaust, the monstrosity of modern-day terrorism, and the dreadful headlines of our daily newspapers, we are shown what our corrupt, active human nature is capable of, given the requisite conditions, if God leaves us to ourselves.
Joel R. Beeke, Living for God’s Glory
They are all gone aside, they have all together become filthy; there is none that does good or right, no, not one.
Ps 14:3
Surely there is not a righteous man upon earth who does good and never sins. Eccles 7:20
I hold to the view the view that all people inherit from Adam a sinful nature, not his guilt. That we are not guilty of sin until we start practicing sin in our lives. And I think that varies from person to person.
My thought is that sinning flows inevitably from one’s corrupted human nature. Human nature after the fall of Adam can only sin because the fall corrupted human nature.
I like the way Joel R. Beeke puts it.
Total depravity thus entails moral inability. In ourselves, we are unable to do anything about our condition. We are spiritually impotent by nature, unable and unwilling to save ourselves. We cannot appreciate the Christian faith and we are powerless to work toward our conversion. “We can do nothing but sin,” Calvin says, “until the Holy Spirit forms a new will within us.” No matter how much the natural man is urged by the law or the gospel to believe in Christ and turn from sin, he is “not able, by his own strength. to convert himself, or to prepare himself thereunto” (Westminster Confession, 9.3).
Charles Hodge puts it poignantly: “The rejection of the gospel is as clear proof of moral depravity as inability to see the sun at noon is proof of blindness.” The natural man may want to be free of some sin and of the consequences of sin; he may even expend some effort in that direction. But he is too much a slave to it. He is not simply “going lost” or “dying,” he is lost and is dead in trespasses and sins (Eph. 2:1).
Every person in the world is by nature a slave of sin. The world, by nature, is held in sin’s grip. What a shock to our complacency—that everything of us by nature belongs to sin. Our silences belong to sin, our omissions belong to sin, our talents belong to sin, our actions belong to sin. Every facet of our personalities belongs to sin; it owns us and dominates us. We are its servants.
Total depravity is active in us. It is not simply the absence of righteousness, but the presence of corruption. Our depravity is enormously creative and inventive, ever devising new ways of violating God’s will. It is a growing cancer within us—a rampant, productive, energetic, and self-propagating entity. It is fire out of control—a living, fierce, powerful force. In the horrors of the Holocaust, the monstrosity of modern-day terrorism, and the dreadful headlines of our daily newspapers, we are shown what our corrupt, active human nature is capable of, given the requisite conditions, if God leaves us to ourselves.
Joel R. Beeke, Living for God’s Glory
I don’t think man is totally depraved in they can’t call out and reach out to God who is always calling everyone to him daily.
Bubba
Member
I guess it's just how you look at it. I would imagine if you traveled to the middle east and started sharing the Gospel of Jesus Christ in the wrong area one might just find out how totally depraved man really is. On the other end you could possibly make some converts. The bad news is if they're caught there's consequences.
The punishment for apostasy (riddah) is well-known in Islaamic Sharee’ah. The one who leaves Islaam will be asked to repent by the Sharee’ah judge in an Islaamic country; if he does not repent and come back to the true religion, he will be killed as a kaafir and apostate, because of the command of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him): "Whoever changes his religion, kill him." (Reported by al-Bukhaari, 3017).
Yes
Romans 9:31–32 (KJV 1900) — 31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. 32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
There is a doctrine called the perichoresis which refers to the mutual indwelling between members of the trinity
