An Article on free will
- Thread starter TomL
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Johann
Active Member
And this?
Romans 5:8 (ESV): "But God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us."
How do you reconcile it with Ephesians-your go to?
J.
brightfame52
Active Member
He died for the elect while they dead sinners and ungodly, whats to reconcile
Johann
Active Member
I'm not interested in Calvin's interpretation of Scripture--no offense intended.
Isaiah 42:1 (ESV): "Behold my servant, whom I uphold, my chosen, in whom my soul delights..."
Hebrew: בְּחִירִי (beḥirî) - "my chosen"
Isaiah 45:4 (ESV): "For the sake of my servant Jacob, and Israel my chosen..."
Hebrew: בְּחִירִי (beḥirî) - "my chosen"
Isaiah 65:9 (ESV): "I will bring forth offspring from Jacob, and from Judah possessors of my mountains; my chosen shall possess it..."
Hebrew: בְּחִירַי (beḥiray) - "my chosen ones"
Psalm 105:6 (ESV): "O offspring of Abraham, his servant, children of Jacob, his chosen ones!"
Hebrew: בְּחִירָיו (beḥirav) - "his chosen ones"
New Testament References:
Matthew 24:31 (ESV): "And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds..."
Greek: ἐκλεκτούς (eklektous) - "elect"
Mark 13:20 (ESV): "And if the Lord had not cut short the days, no human being would be saved. But for the sake of the elect, whom he chose..."
Greek: ἐκλεκτῶν (eklektōn) - "of the elect"
Luke 18:7 (ESV): "And will not God give justice to his elect, who cry to him day and night?"
Greek: τῶν ἐκλεκτῶν (tōn eklektōn) - "the elect"
Romans 8:33 (ESV): "Who shall bring any charge against God’s elect?"
Greek: ἐκλεκτῶν (eklektōn) - "elect"
Colossians 3:12 (ESV): "Put on then, as God's chosen ones, holy and beloved..."
Greek: ἐκλεκτοὶ (eklektoi) - "chosen"
2 Timothy 2:10 (ESV): "Therefore I endure everything for the sake of the elect..."
Greek: ἐκλεκτῶν (eklektōn) - "elect"
Titus 1:1 (ESV): "Paul, a servant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ, for the sake of the faith of God’s elect..."
Greek: ἐκλεκτῶν (eklektōn) - "elect"
1 Peter 1:1 (ESV): "To those who are elect exiles of the Dispersion..."
Greek: ἐκλεκτοῖς (eklektois) - "elect"
1 Peter 2:9 (ESV): "But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood..."
Greek: ἐκλεκτόν (eklekton) - "chosen"
2 John 1:1 (ESV): "The elder to the elect lady and her children..."
Greek: ἐκλεκτῇ (eklektē) - "elect"
Revelation 17:14 (ESV): "They will make war on the Lamb, and the Lamb will conquer them, for he is Lord of lords and King of kings, and those with him are called and chosen and faithful."
Greek: ἐκλεκτοί (eklektoi) - "chosen"
Who are the elect? Are we not chosen IN Christ the moment we are born from above? I see Israel as God's elect if you read context, and believers are elect IN Christ the MOMENT they receive the new birth eis Messiah, the Elect ONE
Nothing in the Pauline epistles that God determined some to be saved and others not--correct?
J.
brightfame52
Active Member
@Selah
Sin is the transgression of God's law ~ more than one would be sins..... that we all are guilty of when we sin.... Any one sin that we commit is always connected with being guilty of many others. Much like David's adultery~he also was guilty of deceit; not loving others as himself; blaming God for Uriah's death, and many others, etc. He basically broke every commandments with his sin, if you truly "chew the cud" on his sin!
I think you need to reconsider your statement to Jim, who himself is a very wise person when it comes to reasoning and making sound judgments.
Since you brought this up, why do not you enlighten Jim, and myself as far as that goes on the differences between sin and sins? I'm not trying to stir the pot on others disagreements, but I think you are wrong on this point, actually not even close of being correct.
Sin is the transgression of God's law ~ more than one would be sins..... that we all are guilty of when we sin.... Any one sin that we commit is always connected with being guilty of many others. Much like David's adultery~he also was guilty of deceit; not loving others as himself; blaming God for Uriah's death, and many others, etc. He basically broke every commandments with his sin, if you truly "chew the cud" on his sin!
I think you need to reconsider your statement to Jim, who himself is a very wise person when it comes to reasoning and making sound judgments.
Wrong. The condition of being "by nature" is not a sin and therefore not "dead in sin". One is dead in sin only after having committed an actual sin.
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Good morning Red. I appreciate your kind words about me. And of course, the same right back to you. Actually, I didn't respond to @Selah's post to me, because it didn't make any sense to me. It didn't appear to me that the post was looking for a definition of sin; however, it seemed to posit a distinction other than single and plural. So it wasn't clear to me even what was being offered.
Jim, your words have meaning, and it is what you wrote, and here is the proof.
All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being (John 1:3), but you wrote "Your view of such things is apparently that God created this world" with the connotation that you do not believe God created all things.
Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.
(Matthew 7:13-14) says the Word of God, but you wrote "Your view of such things is apparently that God created this world mostly to condemn humans to hell" with the connotation that you do not believe Lord Jesus Christ who declares few enter through the small gate that leads to Life.
With my brother Paul, I say "far be it from me to boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world" (Galatians 6:14).
Evil pride proceeds out of the heart of men (Mark 7:20-23), and your heart's treasure pridefully holds to "I chose Christ" despite your exposure to the Holy Word of God “you did not choose Me, but I chose you” (John 15:16) and “I chose you out of the world” (John 15:19, includes salvation).
I am entirely and unequivocally at the mercy of King Jesus of the Kingdom of God for I have done absolutely nothing to contribute to the salvation Lord Jesus so very graciously delivers me.
Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men leading to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9).
In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE SAVIOR JESUS!!!
Matthew 15:9 says not one word about Free will. But it does speak to your teaching.
brightfame52
Active Member
No its not wrong, man by nature is dead in sin and have a disobedient nature controlling him Eph 2:1-3
And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
MTMattie
Active Member
If you truly believe this then you certainly believe that what I (and others say) on the subject is coming from our inability to stop what we say.
IOW
From someone from above. i.e. Diety.
If someone from above is having us say these things because we have no free will we are beyond stopping and it would be His way to counter what your conjured concepts of you beliefs ( and others) are, so I would be very careful in saying what we believe
is a conjured concept of the traditions of men leading to worship in vain because we say things as they either come from the
"GIFT" of free-will from God or they are directed by God.
You cannot continue to claim there is no such thing IF you really believe that only by the Heavenly Father can one come to Jesus and salvation because He draws one.
If He truly is the way that you believe.... then it is He who is having us counter you.
What @brightfame52 doesn't understand is that if there is no free will, then God is the cause of everything that is wrong in His entire realm, spiritual and physical; He causes sin. But that cannot be.
brightfame52
Active Member
There is no freewill because man is dead by nature, a slave to sin. Then there is no freewill from Gods absolute control, God can and does turn your will anywhere He wants to and you will freely comply. Prov 21:1
The king's heart[will] is in the hand of the Lord, as the rivers of water: he turneth it whithersoever he will.
civic
Active Member
With his view of God/ Sovereignty free will cannot exist before or after one’s professed belief in a god. This god controls every thought , action and deed over its creation both good and evil. Mans wicked thoughts are controlled , murder, rape, suicide, genocide and all the way down to your socks you put on, the food you eat and all the confusing doctrines that oppose each other are all determined by this god. A god of confusion , chaos, evil just like the pagan gods who sacrificed their children to Molech. All done by this god of paganism , Gnosticism , Greek mythology etc
MTMattie
Active Member
Not so. It is only because your creator predestined us all to be dead by nature and then chose those to go by that little gate.
Leaving all of his creation to wallow in misery and burn at the end.
Your creator is not one of love. Your creator is the one they used to preach hell fire and damnation sermons about but then when
they lost the congregation they stopped. And those who did not stop came to an understanding that what they had preached all their lives made little sense except
Forget the except. YOu do not have the mental comprehension to look at the big picture.
Just know that it is your creator that created free will. And by extension it would be your creator that created sin. And then your creator that made sin so enjoyable that few are willing to turn from it. You were told how lovely that fruit was and how good it tasted. Her idiot husband saw she did not die so he ate to please his wife.....
YOU are not thinking.
I will say the very same to you that I did to Kermos.....
"
If you truly believe this then you certainly believe that what I (and others say) on the subject is coming from our inability to stop what we say.
IOW
From someone from above. i.e. Diety.
If someone from above is having us say these things because we have no free will we are beyond stopping and it would be His way to counter what your conjured concepts of you beliefs ( and others) are, so I would be very careful in saying what we believe
is a conjured concept of the traditions of men leading to worship in vain because we say things as they either come from the
"GIFT" of free-will from God or they are directed by God.
You cannot continue to claim there is no such thing IF you really believe that only by the Heavenly Father can one come to Jesus and salvation because He draws one.
If He truly is the way that you believe.... then it is He who is having us counter you.
brightfame52
Active Member
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