An Article on free will

PS

Predestination is also in the NT.....
unfortunately for you, it doesn't mean what you THINK it means.

Mainline Christianity is very firm RB.
Faith is a gift from God....

BUT
It is not IRRESISTIBLY forced upon those God chooses to save.

THAT is my theology.
predestination/ predestined is in the N.T. just not the calvinist view of its meaning. :)

Gods foreknowledge precedes predestination. :)

Romans 8:29-30 - For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. 30 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.

Englishman's Concordance

Acts 4:28 V-AIA-3S
GRK: βουλὴ σου προώρισεν γενέσθαι
NAS: and Your purpose predestined to occur.
KJV: counsel determined before to be done.
INT: purpose of you predetermined to come to pass

Romans 8:29 V-AIA-3S
GRK: προέγνω καὶ προώρισεν συμμόρφους τῆς
NAS: He also predestined [to become] conformed
KJV: also did predestinate [to be] conformed
INT: he foreknew also he predestined [to be] conformed to the

Romans 8:30 V-AIA-3S
GRK: οὓς δὲ προώρισεν τούτους καὶ
NAS: whom He predestined, He also
KJV: whom he did predestinate, them
INT: those whom moreover he predestined these also

1 Corinthians 2:7 V-AIA-3S
GRK: ἀποκεκρυμμένην ἣν προώρισεν ὁ θεὸς
NAS: God predestined before
KJV: God ordained before
INT: hidden which predetermined God

Ephesians 1:5 V-APA-NMS
GRK: προορίσας ἡμᾶς εἰς
NAS: He predestined us to adoption as sons
KJV: Having predestinated us unto
INT: having predestined us for

Ephesians 1:11 V-APP-NMP
GRK: καὶ ἐκληρώθημεν προορισθέντες κατὰ πρόθεσιν
NAS: we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according
KJV: we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to
INT: also we obtained an inheritance having been predestined according to [the] purpose

Strong's Greek 4309
6 Occurrences
 
@Kermos, your soteriology assigns to God such strikingly absurd character traits as to be offensive to any believer. It makes God the author, reason and cause of all, and I mean all, of what is wrong in the world. It is a real shame.

Whoops, you lied with "offensive to any believer" because God granted me agreement from others in this very thread.

Now, to you and @Eternally-Grateful (your "Like" of Jim's aspersion against Almighty God), you who convey God is evil to save even one person:
18 He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires.
19 You will say to me then, “Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?” 20 On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, “Why did you make me like this,” will it? 21Or does not the Potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use? 22 What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction? 23 And He did so to make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory
So, faithful, glorious, and graceful Lord and God Jesus Christ fills us vessels of mercy with God's works of mercy which God prepared beforehand for glory!

Paul declares God's Sovereign control of man with "He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires" (Romans 9:18).

Immediately after writing that God is in control, Paul continued with "You will say to me then, 'Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?'" (Romans 9:19) - herein resides your wrongly assigning man's accountability for sin to God - the fault question.

Romans 9:18 segues right into Romans 9:19-23.

Bringing these together:

Paul conveyed "God is in control" (Romans 9:18) then the "you" defiantly mocks God's control with "Why does He still find fault since your soteriology assigns to God such strikingly absurd character traits as to be offensive to any believer? For who resists His will?" (the book of Second Opinions 9:19).

The "you" in Romans 9:19-20 is the person who rejects God by way of rejecting God's exclusive control of man's salvation; in other words, the "you" is the person that claims man has a free will.

Do not forget that it is written that no purpose of God's can be thwarted (Job 42:2), so scripture reveals that man cannot resist God's will, and Paul knows scripture.

Notice the "you" questioning why God still finds fault. Paul conveys that the "you" asks the fault question in a mocking manner, and the subsequent question about God's will continues with the "you" mocking God who is entirely in control of man's salvation according to Paul (Ephesians 2:8-10 for example).

The "you" is certainly mocking because immediately after the question about God's will, Paul wrote:
On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, "Why did you make me like this," will it? (Romans 9:20)​

See the "On the contrary" which is indicative that the following statement of Paul refutes the mocking questions of the "you" about the fault question and the question about God's will (in Romans 9:19).

Paul continues immediately after "On the contrary" in Romans 9:20 showing that the thing molded cannot resist the will of the Molder.

The thing molded represents the "you".

The Molder represents God.

IN TRUTH, PAUL CONVEYS THAT MAN CANNOT RESIST GOD'S WILL (ROMANS 9:19-20)!

Behold the parallel of the defiant "you" as adversary against God (in Romans 9:19-20) to free-willians based upon the content of free-willian philosophical writings - look at your post, Jim.

My brother Paul wrote "it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy" (Romans 9:16).
 
yes. A calvinist believes this.. That's WHY they claim those who preach grace through faith are synergist..
thats because you were a corpse in calvinism. :)

a zombie, the night of the living dead, creature feature edition. :ROFLMAO:

Calvinisms Total depravity and inability who need regeneration to become alive- they also use lazarus as an illustration of dead and his inability to believe until brought back to life(regeneration ). They conflate and equivocate using the word dead and give it a meaning the bible never does. In calvinism these are all synonyms- dead, corpse and zombie.

The T is false so right from the start its wrong.

They redefine dead to fit their systematic. The Prodigal "dead" son disproves their theory as does lazarus and the rich man and lazarus just to name a few.

They don't believe faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of Christ- the dead cannot hear in their unbiblical teaching. so the corpse must be brought back to the land of the living so they can hear and respond. night of the living dead theology- the zombie apocalypse. :) Regeneration is synonymous with zapping in Calvinism. Zapping the dead corpse to life.

why do the spiritually dead need the truth hidden since by nature they are already totally depraved being totally unable to respond since they are by nature deaf, dumb, blind etc.................

why hide truth from a dead corpse ( calvinists teaching on dead ) ????

just more calvinists double speak- contradictions, oxymorons etc..............

Why did Jesus speak in parable if the dead cannot see or understand the truth ?

Why did Jesus speak in parables if calvinism is correct ?

We hear this all of the time comparing mans unregenerate state to that of Lazarus in the tomb in reformed/calvinist teachings.

The fact is calvinism's view on dead is wrong otherwise there would be no need to hide it from them. Why does Jesus need to hide truth from a dead corpse ?

See the contradiction ?

See the oxymoron ?

See the dilemma ?

In the real world we call this though process cognitive dissonance, an inconsistent and contradictory belief. So much for total inability and Jesus need for parables. This is just another example of the inconsistent calvinist/reformed position. Why would God have to harden a dead corpse, a dead man having no ability to hear, see or perceive ?


hope this helps !!!
 
I've noticed your concern, brother, and I want to say this clearly one more time-- I firmly believe that our initial salvation is entirely the work of monergism--God alone brings it about.

However, following that initial act of salvation, we are met with a multitude of imperatives throughout Scripture.

Is the Holy Spirit coercing us into obedience to these commands? No--He empowers, guides, and convicts, but does not force.
Therefore, our response to these imperatives necessarily involves synergy--our willing participation with the Spirit in the ongoing life of faith.

Not clear?

J.
Even in what you call "initial salvation" there is a human element within it. Paul declares the importance of Preachers for the propagation of the Gospel that produces faith in the first place.

(Rom 10:14) How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher?
 
@civic
They don't believe faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of Christ-
That's not true, they beleive faith does indeed comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God, yet their faith is not the means of regeneration, but the evidence of one that has been born of God, per 1st John 5:1:

1st John 5:1​

“Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.”

Born of God = regeneration = quickened = a new nature by the Spirit to be sons vitally. This same writer made it very clear the sovereign power involved (Jn 1:12-13; 3:1-8).

civic, faith to believe Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, is proof a man is already born again. He that believeth [present tense; active voice] is born of God [perfect tense; passive]. Perfect tense is action completed [perfected] in the past and still true in the present.

In modern English we say ~ “He has been born of God.” civic, we prove this priority of action by John’s previous points (Ist John 4:7 cp Ist John 3:14). Consider John’s other examples proving regeneration is before faith (I John 4:15).

Unless a man is born again, he cannot see God’s kingdom, let alone its King (John 3:3). Being born again is God’s work, without human efforts, for us to believe (John 1:12). God’s work of grace in causing the new birth is like the sovereign wind (John 3:8). He that is of God ~ already born of God ~ can hear and understand (John 8:43-45,47). The sheep of Christ will believe – "they do not believe to become sheep:~ (John 10:26). Only those already saved are able and willing to believe on Jesus (I Cor 1:18,24). The gospel is hid from others, for they are lost and blinded by Satan (2nd Cor 4:3-4). Faith is the evidence of eternal life and God’s gift (2nd Cor 2:14-17; 2nd Thess 3:1-2).
 
--and yet still arrive at the conclusion that faith is not a gift.

J.
Its not that faith is a gift.

Its that grace, and the work of God. which brings us to faith, is a gift.

It is also salvation, which is offered to us is a gift.

Apart from the work of God we would not have the capacity to believe. because we would have nothing to trust in. We would be forced to rely on self. which is what happened when man fell..
 
Even in what you call "initial salvation" there is a human element within it. Paul declares the importance of Preachers for the propagation of the Gospel that produces faith in the first place.

(Rom 10:14) How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher?
When you deny that salvation, faith, and grace are from God, you end up negating the very tension Scripture presents-that while humans are called to respond, it is ultimately God who saves, so that no one may boast (Ephesians 2:8–9).

Scripture holds both truths together-
“For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this not of yourselves, it is the gift of God—not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.” (Ephesians 2:8–9)

This is one of many divine paradoxes in the Word-God initiates, yet man must respond. Ignoring either side distorts the balance the Bible maintains throughout.

Other than that, we are on the same page.

J.
 
I've read through and might be a little confused with all the scholarly talk...of which I'm not one.
Here's what Ephesians 2:8-9 states....
WE ARE SAVED BY GOD'S GRACE,,,THROUGH FAITH,,,AND THIS IS A GIFT OF GOD.

WHAT is a gift of God?
All 3:
GRACE
SALVATION
FAITH

Faith is a gift from God but not as Calvinists would understand this.
Everything good is a gift from God.
He has allowed us to have faith in Him IF we want this gift.
Free will is not taken away...we must want the gift.

God offers the gift to us,,,,John 3:16....but we must want it.
If we believe...we will receive the gift.

Grace is surely a gift and is available to all.
Salvation is also a gift and is available to all.
Man generates BELIEF...
God gifts him FAITH.

If you read Eph 2:8 in any other language it is apparent that faith is a gift...
if you wish to go through this, I'd be happy to.
In context I would sort of disagree

For it is by GRACE we have been saved....

Salvation is the gift given at Gods expense..

However. God will not force it must be received, which unless one has faith, they would never receive.

so we have "for it is by Grace we have been saved (a completed action) through faith (it must be received) not of works lest anyone should boast (it can not be earned by works.. which also proves. Faith is not a work.) in other words. we did not earn salvation by receiving his grace gift of salvation..
 
If salvation is by grace through faith, then obviously faith is required. If faith is a gift not given to all, then it is God, and only God, who is accountable for any who are not saved.
I see,

The ability is the gift.. The ability is given to all. But not all will believe.

But still. You did not and could not come to faith on your own without outside help. The things of God are foolishness. Without the conviction and teaching of the HS and the word.. we could never have faith
 
Jim,,,,
You missed this important part:

Faith is given to WHO WANTS IT....

Just like John 3:16 WHOMEVER BELEIVES......

The WHOMEVER believes....man's part....
to THAT PERSON,,,, to whom God gifts faith.
Lets look at the tax collector

What kind of faith did he have?

He cried out. not knowing how God would answer.

How about the man who wanted his child Healed.. I believe Lord. help me in my unbelief.

Jesus said faith of a mustard seed can move mountains..
 
thats because you were a corpse in calvinism. :)

a zombie, the night of the living dead, creature feature edition. :ROFLMAO:

Calvinisms Total depravity and inability who need regeneration to become alive- they also use lazarus as an illustration of dead and his inability to believe until brought back to life(regeneration ). They conflate and equivocate using the word dead and give it a meaning the bible never does. In calvinism these are all synonyms- dead, corpse and zombie.

The T is false so right from the start its wrong.

They redefine dead to fit their systematic. The Prodigal "dead" son disproves their theory as does lazarus and the rich man and lazarus just to name a few.

They don't believe faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of Christ- the dead cannot hear in their unbiblical teaching. so the corpse must be brought back to the land of the living so they can hear and respond. night of the living dead theology- the zombie apocalypse. :) Regeneration is synonymous with zapping in Calvinism. Zapping the dead corpse to life.

why do the spiritually dead need the truth hidden since by nature they are already totally depraved being totally unable to respond since they are by nature deaf, dumb, blind etc.................

why hide truth from a dead corpse ( calvinists teaching on dead ) ????

just more calvinists double speak- contradictions, oxymorons etc..............

Why did Jesus speak in parable if the dead cannot see or understand the truth ?

Why did Jesus speak in parables if calvinism is correct ?

We hear this all of the time comparing mans unregenerate state to that of Lazarus in the tomb in reformed/calvinist teachings.

The fact is calvinism's view on dead is wrong otherwise there would be no need to hide it from them. Why does Jesus need to hide truth from a dead corpse ?

See the contradiction ?

See the oxymoron ?

See the dilemma ?

In the real world we call this though process cognitive dissonance, an inconsistent and contradictory belief. So much for total inability and Jesus need for parables. This is just another example of the inconsistent calvinist/reformed position. Why would God have to harden a dead corpse, a dead man having no ability to hear, see or perceive ?


hope this helps !!!
no argument here brother.

While I believe my calvinist brothers and sisters may be saved. I think they Give God a bad name
 
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