praise_yeshua
Well-known member
I'll just add that Abraham and Sarah were half brother and sister. Same father. Different mothers.
An Article on free will
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I'll just add that Abraham and Sarah were half brother and sister. Same father. Different mothers.
GodsGrace
Well-known member
Right.
But who were all those persons that might try to harm Cain?
Genesis 4:13-16
13 Cain said to the LORD, "My punishment is too great to bear!
14 "Behold, You have driven me this day from the face of the ground; and from Your face I will be hidden, and I will be a vagrant and a wanderer on the earth, and whoever finds me will kill me."
15 So the LORD said to him, "Therefore whoever kills Cain, vengeance will be taken on him sevenfold." And the LORD appointed a sign for Cain, so that no one finding him would slay him.
16 Then Cain went out from the presence of the LORD, and settled in the land of Nod, east of Eden.
And I do believe this will be my last post on this topic.
I owe you a reply, but tomorrow..very late here.
'night.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
No hurry. Thanks.
LOL you just proved your own falsehood
No sorry he did not write
faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God
Which you had stated previously
He did write
"by grace you are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God"
One is not the other
So Why did you truncate scripture to suit your theology?
Faith and the pronoun "that' do not agree in gender, so faith is not a proper antecedent of the relative pronoun that
A simple by grace are you saved through faith will do quite nicely
Faith is a response of man
God does not believe for you; it is something you must do
Faith comes by hearing the word of God (Rom. 10:11-14), which is sent (or granted) first to the Jew and then the Gentile (Rom. 1:16). In other words, God is enabling faith by bringing the word of faith (His revelation), which is said to go first to Israel and then to “the high-ways and by-ways…the good and bad alike” (see the wedding banquet parable in Matt. 22). Remember, during the time of Paul, the Jews, generally speaking, had grown calloused to God’s revelation, otherwise they might have seen, heard, understood and turned to God, so the apostles took the message of repentance to the Gentiles, who unlike the Jews, “were willing to listen” (see Acts 28:27-28; John 12:39-41; Romans 9-11).
In the New Testament, faith is attributed to individuals rather than God thirty-nine times (Matt 9:2, 22, 29; 15:28; Mark 2:5; 5:34; 10:52; Luke 5:20; 7:50; 8:48; 17:19; 18:42; 22:32; Rom 1:8; 1 Cor 2:5; 15:14, 17; 2 Cor 1:24; 10:15; Eph 1:15; Phil 2:17; Col 1:4; 1 Thess 1:8; 3:2, 5, 6, 7, 10; 2 Thess 1:3; Phlm 6; Heb 10:23; 12:2; Jas 1:3; 2:18; 1 Pet 1:7, 9, 21; 2 Pet 1:5; 1 John 5:4).
Anyone Can Be Saved: A Defense of “Traditional” Southern Baptist Soteriology . Wipf & Stock, an
Um the Holy Spirit did not inspire Paul to write
faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God (Ephesians 2:8).
he did inspire him to write
"by grace you are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God"
where salvation (through faith) is the gift as scripture shows
Romans 6:23 (NIV) — 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
We found something to which we are in agreement.
Praise God!
Have you ever added up the time in the genealogy?
I did, and an astonishing revelation occurred. 1,948 years after Adam's creation, Abram was born.
1,948 years after Jesus' birth, Isreal became a nation, again.
On your last sentence, something remarkable when I was deep into the creation vs divine evolution debate. Reading the order of creation in Genesis 1 fits almost exactly the scientific order.
1. Sun first
2. Plants
3. Fish and birds
4. Animals
5. Mankind
So science got that right ± 150 years ago, well done science, proving what was written at least 2400 ago, the Bible being right
Ever since I see science (with all its errors) as the study how God created.
Science will never understand, since it can not measure, that God created mankind in Paradise as His original intend, and not on the natural Earth.
Nevertheless I love science, mind blowing how God created.
First personal computer in 1980, the Tandy, TRS-80 with cassette recorder, only 1.77Mhz and 16Kb (only 16384 bytes) RAM and paid 2600 dutch guilders for that, about 7000-8000 dollars / euros today. Saving my stuff to cassette after making changes took 15 minutes and often went wrong. And yet, those were the days. Donkey Kong and chess programs.
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GodsGrace
Well-known member
It's those tiny little chips that make it all possible.Yep!
Commadore 64s and the beginnings of Atari. It amazes me that you get all of those games running now on a raspberry. I did it years ago for my kids and they cared about it for about two days at most.
And who knows what the future will bring!
Agreed 100%. I'm a professional typist...was a secy in my working days.Sometimes I use CAPS and get scolded by the other member for yelling...
well, it's not yelling...it's emphasizing!
Not my fault if these young'uns don't know typing!
Agreed. And, eventually, we'll hit upon something we may not agree on....
but it's always the attitude of the other member to which I respond.
We could be nice to each other even if we don't agree.
Actually, I don't trust science completely.Good. Thanks
I agree with you. I just don't think science is currently an absolute. Where science fails to establish anything, that is where faith is necessary. Science is reason. I was taught by science to be a natural skeptic. I still am. I want more than just conjecture.
Life isn't confined to a "beaker" or a "test tube". Nature teaches us, it just takes time and effort to know what it has always been saying to us.
It changes its position on different matter continuously.
As I said...we do not need to have to choose between science and faith.
What I find interesting is that science depends on God's LAWS in order for it to function!
I like Bercot because he's a scholar of the Early Church Fathers.
They were taught by the Apostles and, in some cases, can clear up a disagreement about some doctrine.
Of course many are not interested, but they knew what the Apostles knew.
AND...we must always remember that the bible is our final authority.
GodsGrace
Well-known member
Your post brought a laugh.
I had forgotten about the floppy disk and how long it took to upload something.
I was one of the first to try the webphone...it didn't work. Too slow.
Which as too bad. My daughter already lived here and I used to spend a small fortune each month on the phone bill.
Now it's free! (too late!). Plus, I live here now and speak to my son over there - but guys don't talk as much as gals.
The Truth (14:6) is that The love of Christ controls us Christians (2 Corinthians 5:14), and my heart belongs to Christ my Savior who delivers belief to me and every Christian as per His loving “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29).
“This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29) dispells your heart's "which shows men are to come, see and believe on the son according to man's free-will" before you wrote your heart's thoughts, and the Word of God “he who practices the Truth comes to the Light, that his works may be revealed, that they are having been worked in God” (John 3:21) shows the distance your heart's "which shows men are to come, see and believe on the son according to man's free-will" is from the Lord God Almighty (see post #7,782 which was posted to you just last week).
Let's proceed a few verses beyond your quoted John 6:47–51, where Jesus continues talking about eating the Bread of Life "It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are Spirit and are Life" (John 6:51) of which you directly contradict with your "flesh man must free-will choose to believe - eat of the bread".
Keep your eye peeled on the word "profit".
You believe you buy your way into heaven with your natural fleshly free-will faith payment in your "apart from Christ, I chose to believe in Christ so Christ must profit me with salvation", yet the Christ of us Christians declares "I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing" (John 15:5) and "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God" (John 3:3) and “you did not choose Me, but I chose you” (John 15:16) and “I chose you out of the world” (John 15:19, includes salvation) and “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29) and “It is the Spirit who gives Life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are Spirit and are Life” (John 6:63), so you believe falsehood (2 Peter 2:1, 2 Peter 2:9-10).
Eternally-Grateful
Well-known member
lol. This makes no sense
Did the tax collector hold a transaction with God
So god forced it on you? Or did he force others not to belief? Or is it both?
Christ did not overcome you will. A loving God would Not do that
You believe that your will is separated from God in such a way that you can choose God in your own initiative and that God in no way controls your will to accomplish your exclusive choice. This is your side of the transaction.
Your choice results in God responding to you by supplying you with salvation, and herein resides God's side of the transaction.
Your choice purchases salvation from God in an exchange.
You believe that without your choice, then you would not have salvation, so God does not provide salvation to you in the absence of your choice; therefore, without your choice initiating the transaction, you wouldn't have salvation.
Hence, Free-willian Philosophy accurately leads to "apart from Christ, I chose to believe in Christ so Christ must profit me with salvation".
You asked "who resists His will?'" (Romans 9:19) - herein resides man wrongly assigning man's accountability for sin to God - the fault question that you embed in your questions.
The Apostle Paul wrote:
18 He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires.
19 You will say to me then, “Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?” 20 On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, “Why did you make me like this,” will it? 21Or does not the Potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use? 22 What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction? 23 And He did so to make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory
So, faithful, glorious, and graceful Lord and God Jesus Christ fills us vessel of mercy with God's works of mercy which God prepared beforehand for glory!Paul declares God's Sovereign control of man with "He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires" (Romans 9:18).
IN TRUTH, PAUL CONVEYS THAT MAN CANNOT RESIST GOD'S WILL (ROMANS 9:19-20)!
My brother Paul wrote "it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy" (Romans 9:16).
You are very much in error about my relationship with Lord Jesus because God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life (John 3:16) and the Word of God declares “he who practices the Truth comes to the Light, that his works may be revealed, that they are having been worked in God” (John 3:21).
brightfame52
Well-known member
Mans will is by nature dead in sin, it can only choose evil, its not free from that. Gen 6:5
5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
The word heart here is lēḇ:
inner man, mind, will, heart, understanding,
Jer 13:23
Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? then may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil.
The arminian freewiller will yes, i can choose to good, even though Im dead in sin and my heart is always evil
5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
The word heart here is lēḇ:
inner man, mind, will, heart, understanding,
- inclination, resolution, determination (of will)
Jer 13:23
Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? then may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil.
The arminian freewiller will yes, i can choose to good, even though Im dead in sin and my heart is always evil
Nathan
Member
Until he hears the gospel, then he can choose life.
And you he made alive, when you were dead through the trespasses and sins 2 in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience. 3 Among these we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, following the desires of body and mind, and so we were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. 4 But God, who is rich in mercy, out of the great love with which he loved us, 5 even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up with him, and made us sit with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,
Eph 2:1–6.
Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.John 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.Mark 8:34
And calling the crowd to him with his disciples, he said to them, “If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me.
brightfame52
Well-known member
@Nathan
You have to be saved to hear Gods word, otherwise you hear Gods word Jn 8:47
47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.
Now to be of God simply means to be saved, to be of the Truth Jn 18:37
37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.
You have to be saved to hear Gods word, otherwise you hear Gods word Jn 8:47
47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.
Now to be of God simply means to be saved, to be of the Truth Jn 18:37
37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.
Nathan
Member
Doing things in the wrong order
A cart is a vehicle that is ordinarily pulled by a horse, so to put the cart before the horse is an analogy for doing things in the wrong order. The figure of speech means doing things the wrong way round or with the wrong emphasis or confusing cause and effect.
You have the cart before the horse. Faith comes by hearing the Gospel.
The Word Brings Salvation
…16But not all of them welcomed the good news. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our message?” 17Consequently, faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ. 18But I ask, did they not hear? Indeed they did: “Their voice has gone out into all the earth, their words to the ends of the world.”…Romans 10:16-17
Hebrews 11:6
And without faith it is impossible to please God. For anyone who approaches Him must believe that He exists and that He rewards those who earnestly seek Him.
John 5:24
Truly, truly, I tell you, whoever hears My word and believes Him who sent Me has eternal life and will not come under judgment. Indeed, he has crossed over from death to life.
The Best one
Ephesians 1:13
And in Him, having heard and believed the word of truth—the gospel of your salvation—you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,
brightfame52
Well-known member
Its the right order, you not of God, you cannot hear His word Spiritually
Nathan
Member
Now you are saying I'm not saved?
brightfame52
Well-known member
I dont know nothing about you
civic
Well-known member
Yep
