civic
Well-known member
nope just your misuse and abuse of Scripture. Your jesus is not the Biblical Jesus who desires all men to be saved and come to a knowledge of the truth. 1 Timothy 2:4
hope this helps !!!
An Article on free will
- Thread starter TomL
- Start date
hope this helps !!!
No Word of God you cite states man was imparted a free-will to choose toward God, but here is the Word of God which clearly states man does not choose God to any degree!
The gracious Benefactor God of us Christians exclusively produces
- divine choice of we beneficiaries unto salvation, for the Christ of us Christians says “you did not choose Me, but I chose you” (John 15:16) and “I chose you out of the world” (John 15:19)
AND, Paul is in accord with Jesus’ words for he wrote to the Ephesians “Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly [places] in Christ, just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him in love” (Ephesians 1:3-4)
SO, clearly, Jesus’ words in John 15:16 and John 15:19 state God exclusively chooses us believers by/of/through God - beneficiaries’ faith/belief in Lord Jesus, for the Christ of us Christians says (see also a word about belief/faith (Greek πίστις pistis) and believe (Greek πιστεύω pisteuó))
“This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29)
AND Paul is in accord with Jesus’ words for Paul wrote to the Ephesians “by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, [it is] the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His work” (Ephesians 2:8-10)
AND Peter is in accord with Jesus’ words for Peter declared “God, who knows the heart, testified to them giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us; and He made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith” (Acts 15:8-9)
SO, clearly, Jesus’ words in John 6:29 state for us believers to believe in Jesus whom the Father has sent is exclusively by/of/through God - beneficiaries’ fruit of the Spirit/righteous actions/good works, for the Christ of us Christians says
“he who practices the Truth comes to the Light, that his works may be revealed, that they are having been worked in God” (John 3:21)
AND Paul is in accord with Jesus’ words for he wrote to the Philippians “being filled with the fruit of righteousness that [is] by Jesus Christ, to the glory and praise of God” (Philippians 1:11)
SO, clearly, Jesus’ words in John 3:21 state fruit in we believers is exclusively by/of/through God - beneficiaries’ birth by the Holy Spirit, for the Christ of us Christians says "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God" (John 3:3) as well as “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit” (John 3:5-8)
AND Peter is in accord with Jesus’ words for he wrote to persons residing as aliens “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead” (1 Peter 1:3)
SO, clearly, Jesus’ words in John 3:5-8 state we believers being born again is exclusively by/of/through God - beneficiaries’ repent by God’s working, for the Christ of us Christians says
“I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent and have revealed them to babes” (Matthew 11:25)
AND the apostles and elders are in accord with Jesus’ words with thier saying, “Well then, God has given to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life” (Acts 11:18)
SO, clearly, Jesus’ words in Matthew 11:25 state that God exclusively causes man to think differently after an encounter with God (repent means to think differently afterward) - beneficiaries’ love by God’s working, for the Christ of us Christians says
“A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another” (John 13:34)
AND John is in accord with Jesus’ words for he wrote “Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God” (1 John 4:7, see the phrase “love is from God” meaning God is the source of true love)
AND John expands with his writing of “God is Love, and the one who abides in Love abides in God, and God abides in him” (1 John 4:16, see the phrase “one who abides in Love” is equivocated with “one who abides” “in God” which extends from God’s exclusivity with “God is Love”)
SO, clearly, Jesus’ words in John 13:34 states that the love, true love (John 3:33), the very righteous love, the Godly love within us children of God, this love is exclusively by/of/through God
And here we have the Truth (John 14:6), the love of Christ controls us believers (2 Corinthians 5:14)!
Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men leading to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9).
In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE GOD!!!
MTMattie
Well-known member
So true.
I guess he will stand in front of God on judgement day and if challenged about his beliefs he will say something like..."I didn't choose I just thanked you because I thought you did it all for me"?
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MTMattie
Well-known member
Yet I see you never replied to my post about Adam, the Sodom and Gomorrah folks and those left behind when Noah and family got in that ark.
God , under your scenario, made those people to fail and die. Never gave them a chance to learn and pull out of it.
What could the meaning behind the proverb of
Raise up a child in the way he should go.. then when he is grown he will not depart from it.
Your belief leads to you believing "I am sovereign above I AM", and your belief is reminiscent of "I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High" (Isaiah 14:14) for you believe you control God.
You believe you buy your way into heaven with your natural fleshly free-will faith payment in your "apart from Christ, I chose to believe in Christ so Christ must profit me with salvation", yet the Christ of us Christians declares "I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing" (John 15:5) and "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God" (John 3:3) and “you did not choose Me, but I chose you” (John 15:16) and “I chose you out of the world” (John 15:19, includes salvation) and “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29) and “It is the Spirit who gives Life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are Spirit and are Life” (John 6:63), so you believe falsehood (2 Peter 2:1, 2 Peter 2:9-10).
Now, let's continue with the highly related topic that we were engaged in discussing before you tried to diverge. Do try to stay on topic, MTMattie.
You presented commentary as the basis of your understanding, again, and you diverged from the specific point that the Christ of us Christians says "teaching them to observe all that I commanded you
(Lord Jesus Christ, Matthew 28/20) which includes the Christ's precious saying of "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) to all disciples (Matthew 28:18-20).
Listen about the treasure that is the Word of God "He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day" (The Word of God, Lord Jesus Christ, John 12:48), and notice He didn't say "the commentary is what will judge him at the last day".
The point was very clear in the post to which you replied, so I pose your words right back at you, "Can you read? You do not understand." as recorded in post #6,525.
The Great Commission is profound regarding the Way (John 14:6) in many aspects, and we Christians understand because of the Word of God (John 1:14). I'm listening as my Master speaks:
All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”
(Lord Jesus Christ, Matthew 28:18-20)
God has me contrast your word against the Word of God, here:
| the word of MTMattie | The Word of God | |
| John 15 have nothing to do with you or me (MTMattie, proof post #6,395). | teaching them to observe all that I commanded you (Lord Jesus Christ, Matthew 28/20). |
You vehemently believe that you are not a friend of Jesus thus making yourself an enemy of Jesus because your "John 15 have nothing to do with you or me" (proof post #6,395) thus you self-willingly (2 Peter 2:9-10) exclude yourself from "I have called you friends, for all things that I have heard from My Father I have made known to you. You did not choose Me but I chose you" (John 15:15-16). I reject your "John 15 have nothing to do with you or me". Lord Jesus, you chose me as your friend, and I thank you, my Lord and Savior! King Jesus, You know I am weak, but You are strong!
You conveyed that you put the Word of God, which our loving Holy Father in Heaven caused me to post, on your ignore in your very public prayer that you posted (proof post #6,518). Putting the Word of God on ignore is not the will of Christ's Father in Heaven. This same Christ of us Christians declares "He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day" (John 12:48). We Christians do not put the Christ's sayings on ignore.
Now, in your self-willed (2 Peter 2:9-10) self-proclaimed ignorance, you run to non-biblical sources because the Word of God is not enough for you! As an aside, the words you composed at the conclusion of your post "All of these commentaries show that only the disciples (apostles) were chosen. Jesus had to have them for they had a job to do. They did not come knocking on his door looking for a job. Jesus chose them...." is the only place in your whole post that states "only the disciples (apostles)" - not a single commentary author as you quoted states "only the disciples (apostles)".
Expanding on the aside, with your specific quote portion "Jesus had to have them for they had a job to do", you remove Lord Jesus from choosing disciples to be His friends, yet your Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary contains "Ye have not chosen me, but I … you—a wholesale memento after the lofty things He had just said about their mutual indwelling, and the unreservedness of the friendship they had been admitted to", so you give the appearance of failing to read your own commentary (you quote it, you own it).
Your own commentary includes I selected you as individuals, not excluding thereby a gracious choice of other souls (see your Pulpit Commentary). You confusedly argue against yourself, yet God is not a God of confusion but of peace (1 Corinthians 14:33).
The Word of God issues these wonderful blessings to all believers in all time:
- "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:16), so God chooses people to be friends (John 15:15, the prior verse) and to believe (John 6:29) and to be born again (John 3:3-8) and for righteous works (John 3:21, John 15:5) and to repent (Matthew 11:25) and to love (John 13:34) and unto salvation (John 15:19 the same passage).
- "I chose you out of the world" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:19, includes salvation), so God exclusively chooses people unto salvation.
- "What I say to you I say to all" (Lord Jesus Christ, Mark 13:37 - Jesus had taken the Apostles Peter, Andrew, James, and John aside in private and said this), so all the blessings of God mentioned above are to all believers in all time.
The only way for free-willian philosophers to acheive free-will is for them to add to the Word of God like "you apostles only did not choose Me, but I chose exclusively you apostles", and it is written "do not add to His words or He will reprove you, and you will be proved a liar" (Proverbs 30:6).
Again, you have made it very clear with your amplification of "John 15:16 WAS NEVER MEANT FOR ALL PEOPLE" that you deny being a friend of Lord Jesus because you self-willingly (2 Peter 2:9-10) exclude yourself from "I have called you friends, for all things that I have heard from My Father I have made known to you. You did not choose Me but I chose you" (John 15:15-16) as recorded in post #6,407.
Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men leading to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9).
In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE HOLY LIVING WORD OF GOD!!!
Thank you.
And I agree.
The Lord God told you that?
Or was it just you with your natural fleshy judgemental self-will ?
First of all, read in context, Jesus is talking to the 12 He choose at the beginning of His mission.
Secondly, free-will / self-will it's the same, humans have a will and the label does not count, we have a will and we (you as well) can make decisions by our will.
And for a Christian counts that his/her will is in accordance with the will of God.
You are missing the point, I wrote that in order you would see how illogical your belief on this point is, instead of thinking about it you (ahem) blessed me with a second insult.
MTMattie
Well-known member
What possibly is in these few sentences can make you believe what you have said above. " you believing "I am sovereign above I AM" "I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High" (Isaiah 14:14) for you believe you control God.
MTMattie said:
@Kermos , there is nothing in what I said that could lead you to believe what you slanderously wrote other then under the guidance of Satan.
Dont worry about a reply because you are now permanently on ignore .
The phrase “unequally yoked” comes from 2 Corinthians 6:14 in the King James Version: “Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness?
Now you are going to say "But we are not yoked" for which I say Thank God.....
But we have had a very strange fellowship and one that my Heavenly Father. The Father of Jesus, the Christ. certainly would pull me away from.
Goodbye.
civic
Well-known member
Yes how can 2 men walk together unless they are in agreement. ( Amos 3:3 ) We are unequally yoked with the fatalist.
MTMattie
Well-known member
And we are told not to be.... so, I just need to be mindful to not check on what he writes and just on what you folks reply and that will serve me just fine.
civic
Well-known member
What does Christ have in common with belial ? a believer with an unbeliever ? What agreement is there between the temple of God and idols? For we are the temple of the living God. As God has said: “I will live with them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they will be my people.” (2 Corinthians 6:15-16 )
1 Corinthians 10:21
You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons too; you cannot partake in the table of the Lord and the table of demons too.
1 John 3:8
The one who practices sin is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the very start. This is why the Son of God was revealed, to destroy the works of the devil.
Matthew 6:24
No one can serve two masters: Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money.
1 John 5:19
We know that we are of God, and that the whole world is under the power of the evil one.
Ephesians 5:6-8
Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things the wrath of God is coming on the sons of disobedience. / Therefore do not be partakers with them. / For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Walk as children of light,
John 8:44
You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out his desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, refusing to uphold the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, because he is a liar and the father of lies.
1 Corinthians 5:9-11
I wrote you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people. / I was not including the sexually immoral of this world, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. / But now I am writing you not to associate with anyone who claims to be a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a verbal abuser, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat.
1 John 2:15-17
Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. / For all that is in the world—the desires of the flesh, the desires of the eyes, and the pride of life—is not from the Father but from the world. / The world is passing away, along with its desires; but whoever does the will of God remains forever.
James 4:4
You adulteresses! Do you not know that friendship with the world is hostility toward God? Therefore, whoever chooses to be a friend of the world renders himself an enemy of God.
Romans 13:12-14
The night is nearly over; the day has drawn near. So let us lay aside the deeds of darkness and put on the armor of light. / Let us behave decently, as in the daytime, not in carousing and drunkenness, not in sexual immorality and debauchery, not in dissension and jealousy. / Instead, clothe yourselves with the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the desires of the flesh.
Galatians 5:19-21
The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity, and debauchery; / idolatry and sorcery; hatred, discord, jealousy, and rage; rivalries, divisions, factions, / and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Colossians 3:5-10
Put to death, therefore, the components of your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires, and greed, which is idolatry. / Because of these, the wrath of God is coming on the sons of disobedience. / When you lived among them, you also used to walk in these ways. ...
Revelation 18:4
Then I heard another voice from heaven say: “Come out of her, My people, so that you will not share in her sins or contract any of her plagues.
Isaiah 52:11
Depart, depart, go out from there! Touch no unclean thing; come out from it, purify yourselves, you who carry the vessels of the LORD.
Deuteronomy 7:2-6
and when the LORD your God has delivered them over to you to defeat them, then you must devote them to complete destruction. Make no treaty with them and show them no mercy. / Do not intermarry with them. Do not give your daughters to their sons or take their daughters for your sons, / because they will turn your sons away from following Me to serve other gods. Then the anger of the LORD will burn against you, and He will swiftly destroy you. ...
1 Corinthians 10:21
You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons too; you cannot partake in the table of the Lord and the table of demons too.
1 John 3:8
The one who practices sin is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the very start. This is why the Son of God was revealed, to destroy the works of the devil.
Matthew 6:24
No one can serve two masters: Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money.
1 John 5:19
We know that we are of God, and that the whole world is under the power of the evil one.
Ephesians 5:6-8
Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things the wrath of God is coming on the sons of disobedience. / Therefore do not be partakers with them. / For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Walk as children of light,
John 8:44
You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out his desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, refusing to uphold the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, because he is a liar and the father of lies.
1 Corinthians 5:9-11
I wrote you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people. / I was not including the sexually immoral of this world, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. / But now I am writing you not to associate with anyone who claims to be a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a verbal abuser, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat.
1 John 2:15-17
Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. / For all that is in the world—the desires of the flesh, the desires of the eyes, and the pride of life—is not from the Father but from the world. / The world is passing away, along with its desires; but whoever does the will of God remains forever.
James 4:4
You adulteresses! Do you not know that friendship with the world is hostility toward God? Therefore, whoever chooses to be a friend of the world renders himself an enemy of God.
Romans 13:12-14
The night is nearly over; the day has drawn near. So let us lay aside the deeds of darkness and put on the armor of light. / Let us behave decently, as in the daytime, not in carousing and drunkenness, not in sexual immorality and debauchery, not in dissension and jealousy. / Instead, clothe yourselves with the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the desires of the flesh.
Galatians 5:19-21
The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity, and debauchery; / idolatry and sorcery; hatred, discord, jealousy, and rage; rivalries, divisions, factions, / and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Colossians 3:5-10
Put to death, therefore, the components of your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires, and greed, which is idolatry. / Because of these, the wrath of God is coming on the sons of disobedience. / When you lived among them, you also used to walk in these ways. ...
Revelation 18:4
Then I heard another voice from heaven say: “Come out of her, My people, so that you will not share in her sins or contract any of her plagues.
Isaiah 52:11
Depart, depart, go out from there! Touch no unclean thing; come out from it, purify yourselves, you who carry the vessels of the LORD.
Deuteronomy 7:2-6
and when the LORD your God has delivered them over to you to defeat them, then you must devote them to complete destruction. Make no treaty with them and show them no mercy. / Do not intermarry with them. Do not give your daughters to their sons or take their daughters for your sons, / because they will turn your sons away from following Me to serve other gods. Then the anger of the LORD will burn against you, and He will swiftly destroy you. ...
Are you denying that you believe "apart from Christ, I chose to believe in Christ so Christ must give me salvation"?
The Free-willian Philosophy is centered on that purported capability of man.
Continuing on with your heart's thoughts of John 15:16-19, you wrote "First of all, read in context, Jesus is talking to the 12 He choose at the beginning of His mission", but, by the time Jesus bestows these blessings to all believers in all time, Judas Iscariot departed (John 13:21-30), so that leaves 11 apostles, not your "the 12", but truly the 11, so you err with your inclusion of Judas Iscariot inside of Lord Jesus Christ's blessing of salvation with "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19).
Your mind does not match the mind of Christ (1 Corinthians 2:16). You did write "God is telling you to think and reason with your God given mind" to me just a couple of posts ago. Do you recall?
The label does count. The term free-will is nonsensical because there is no such thing as a human will that is free from the human to whom the will is attached; therefore, Biblically, Spiritually, and logically, you have a self-will (2 Peter 2:9-10).
Largely, I use free will to mean man choosing toward God, emphatically Lord Jesus Christ. And, free-will is nonsensical because Lord and God Jesus Christ says to every Christian “you did not choose Me, but I chose you” (John 15:16) and “I chose you out of the world” (John 15:19, includes salvation).
A Christian believes Jesus, but a pagan believes not Jesus.
Pay attention, you are literally quoted in the first paragraph below the heading.
The Bondage Of A Man's Will
Free-willians, in a respect, are correct that "Secondly, free-will / self-will it's the same", and that respect is that both self will and free will lead to hell.
Now, instead of self-reasoning their deception with things like "Free will is all through the scriptures", they need to listen to Apostolic testimony as shown below.
Peter the Apostle wrote that prior to being saved, people have a self will that brings such people under damnation with the devil according to the Apostle Peter (2 Peter 2:9-10).
Paul the Apostle wrote that after being saved, people have a will that is Christ-image (Romans 8:29) under the loving control of God according to the Apostle Paul (Philippians 2:13).
Here's Paul from the Bible, again. Overall, Paul uses free will as illusory instead of concrete in Philemon 1:14 - and this is the only occurrence of "free will" that I am aware of in the New American Standard Bible New Testament (and free-will is a mistranslation of the Greek).
Free-willians do not have a free will, as declared by Paul.
Free-willians do have a self will, as declared by Peter.
Free-willians gleefully separate themselves from our Christian's Father's Will with thoughts like "I tag you in return with my God given free will, I did not receive a word from God" (ProDeo quote).
Free-willians gleefully separate themselves from God's will and the Christ of us Christians Who says “you did not choose Me, but I chose you” (John 15:16) and “I chose you out of the world” (John 15:19, includes salvation). We Christians in God's Spirit have a will bound enthusiastically in joy and love to God by God for God through God, as described by Paul.
The above mentioned Apostolic testimony verbatim:
- "the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from temptation, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment for the day of judgment, and especially those who indulge the flesh in its corrupt desires and despise authority, daring, self-willed, they do not tremble when they revile angelic majesties" (2 Peter 2:9-10).
- "it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure" (Philippians 2:13).
- Two prominent English Bible translations of Philemon 1:14, the NASB translated to free-will, and the KJV translated to willingly.
- "but without your consent I did not want to do anything, so that your goodness would not be, in effect, by compulsion but of your own free will" (Philemon 1:14), New American Standard Bible/NASB)
- "But without thy mind would I do nothing; that thy benefit should not be as it were of necessity, but willingly" (Philemon 1:14, King James Version/KJV)
In sharp contrast to you free-willians, the love of Christ controls us Christians (2 Corinthians 5:14), His vessels of mercy (Romans 9:21-23)!
Your blood is on your own hands.
You believe you buy your way into heaven with your natural fleshly free-will faith payment in your "apart from Christ, I chose to believe in Christ so Christ must profit me with salvation", yet the Christ of us Christians declares "I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing" (The Word of God, John 15:5) and "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God" (John 3:3) and “you did not choose Me, but I chose you” (John 15:16) and “I chose you out of the world” (John 15:19, includes salvation) and “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29) and “It is the Spirit who gives Life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are Spirit and are Life” (John 6:63), so you believe falsehood (2 Peter 2:1, 2 Peter 2:9-10).
In the absence of the Word of God declaring man was imparted a free-will, your heart (Matthew 15:16-19, Matthew 6:21) awards yourself a free-will. God never imparted you with a free-will, but you were created with a self-will (2 Peter 2:9-10).
Free-willians are prideful in their purported ability to control God "apart from Christ, I chose to believe in Christ so Christ must profit me with salvation", but Christ causes Christians to be humbly controlled by God (Matthew 5:5, 2 Corinthians 5:14). Believe Christ!
Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men leading to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9).
In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE AUTHOR AND PERFECTER OF THE BELIEF!!!
@Kermos
It's time to stop, look at all the above judgements.
1. The phrase free will is not in Scripture.
2. The phrase self will is not in Scripture.
3. What is in Scripture are the will of God and the human will.
Pred 12:13 The end of the matter; all has been heard. Fear God and keep his commandments, for this is the whole duty of man.
Pred 12:14 For God will bring every deed into judgment, with every secret thing, whether good or evil.
Be well.
Huh? You are bringing together simultaneously 2 diametrically opposed events. How can someone simultaneously be apart from Christ and be with Christ in one's choosing of Christ? Your statement warps the mind.
That's a pure lie. That's your warped thinking speaking. It's either that or it's your god who made you spew out lies. Which is it?
As to the Bible verses you quote, I take exception to how you think your endless rant-filled misinterpretations will subdue us into becoming disciples of your warped mind.
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How dare you mock the Love of God (best exemplified at the Cross) as "very weak". At the Cross, God gave us what was most precious to Him as the greatest demonstration of love that anyone can possibly imagine. For you to revile the Cross as "very weak" exposes your alignment with the forces of mockery.
Explain what "draw the Love of God to burn in hell" entails. I have never heard of anyone having the power to do exactly that. This looks like another Strawman of yours.
Conclusion: Your free-will exercise to mock the Cross and to promote strawmen has been exposed and shot down again.
We do not "gleefully" separate ourselves from anything from God, let alone His will. That's you hallucinating again.
As for John 15:16, 19, we whole heartedly believe that. What we don't believe is the possibility that one can be chosen in Christ (made alive in Christ) but not yet called to believe in Christ (still dead in his sins - John 8:24). That makes one a Living Dead person, a zombie monstrocity that is an impossibility and proves your heresy is an abomination. Any further rantings from you will not change those facts.
"The end of the matter; all has been heard. Fear God and keep his commandments, for this is the whole duty of man" (Ecclesiastes 12:13) is Holy Scripture.
"the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from temptation, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment for the day of judgment, and especially those who indulge the flesh in its corrupt desires and despise authority, daring, self-willed, they do not tremble when they revile angelic majesties" (2 Peter 2:9-10) is Holy Scripture.
You wrote "The phrase self will is not in Scripture", yet the phrase self-will is in Holy Scripture as used by the Apostle Peter.
Lord and God Jesus Christ commands "you shall not bear false witness" (Matthew 19:18, (Exodus 20:16).
Behold, you bore false witness thus you failed to keep God's commandments, and self-willed you managed to accomplish your feat. You exposed your lack of fear of God in your writings. You failed in the whole duty of man.
Believe Christ!
You believe you buy your way into heaven with your natural fleshly free-will faith payment in your "apart from Christ, I chose to believe in Christ so Christ must profit me with salvation", yet the Christ of us Christians declares "I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing" (The Word of God, John 15:5) and "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God" (John 3:3) and “you did not choose Me, but I chose you” (John 15:16) and “I chose you out of the world” (John 15:19, includes salvation) and “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29) and “It is the Spirit who gives Life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are Spirit and are Life” (John 6:63), so you believe falsehood (2 Peter 2:1, 2 Peter 2:9-10).
Paul the Apostle wrote "it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure" (Philippians 2:13), so Christians have a will in the image of Christ (Romans 8:29) under the loving control of God according Holy Scripture.
Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men leading to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9).
In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE AUTHOR AND PERFECTER OF THE FAITH!!!
You may have forgotten, but I have not forgotten about the following.
As I told you before, and I'm telling you again. If you want me to even consider addressing your points, then you need to apologize to Red Baker for your long standing and repeated position of bearing false witness against him as shown per the below. You need to apologize publicly in this thread for your publicly visible behavior.
Self-willed (2 Peter 2:9-10) you continues to refuse to apologize, that is clear, and you persist in bearing false witness against @Red Baker who stated:
Nicodemus' child like confession proved that he was already born of the Spirit of God, or, else he would had been just like the other leaders of the Pharisees who said that jesus did what he did under the power of the prince of the devils
Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).
In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE HIS MAJESTY, LORD JESUS CHRIST!!!
Your free-willian UnBiblical Order of Salvation (recorded in post #2,495 of this thread) results in you, dead in sin, free-will choose to believe in Good Jesus causing yourself to be born again, yet no dead man causes himself to be born into a living man. The Truth (John 14:6) about us Christians is that our loving Christ says to each and every one of us that you believe in Him whom He has sent is the work of God (John 6:29).
We Christians believe Christ who exclusively chooses to cause us to believe when Christ, who is God, lovingly makes us alive in Christ with the new birth (John 13:34, John 3:3, John 6:29, John 15:16, John 15:19)! Thank You, Jesus, for the New Covenant in Your Blood! Every drop of Your Blood, Jesus, is absolute Treasure!
You, @civic, believe Jesus' Blood was wasted and now boils in hell because you believe that Jesus' Blood was shed for people who are in hell. The cross precedes your purported free-will choice, so Christ's Blood was covering all currently living person's sin before all were born according to Free-willian Philosophy.
Your heart (Matthew 15:16-19, Matthew 6:21), @civic, makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men leading to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9).
In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! JESUS, YOU ALONE ARE WORTHY OF ALL PRAISE AND GLORY AND HONOR, PRAISE YOU OH GOD!!!
You opening barrage of questions are premised on the shifting sand (Matthew 7:26-27) of you self-willed (2 Peter 2:9-10) pre-maturely terminating the Word of God.
And, more revealing, your answer to your own barrage of questions is based upon your self-willed adulteration of the Word of God. When you intentionally truncated the Word of God, then your heart (Matthew 15:16-19, Matthew 6:21) adulterated the Word of God.
Let's review the Word of God “he who practices the Truth comes to the Light, that his works may be revealed, that they are having been worked in God” (John 3:21).
You capitalized the dependency of "HE WHO PRACTICES THE TRUTH" (John 3:21) in order to emphasize that incomplete statement of Lord Jesus Christ's whole pronouncement.
The work of practices the Truth is entirely dependent upon having been worked in God (John 3:21). Notice, this is not dependent upon the human.
Furthermore, the work of comes to the Light is entirely dependent upon having been worked in God (John 3:21). Notice, there is no mention of human free-will, so a person initially coming to Jesus the Light (John 1:4) is having been worked in God (John 3:21).
Christ, Himself, is "THE TRUTH" (John 14:6), and King Jesus of the Kingdom of God integrates "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God" (John 3:3) by His saying "THE TRUTH" (John 3:21).
Continuing about the word "world".
Here is a question for you, again, do you believe that you are always a part of the whole world wherever Holy Spirit inspired John wrote the whole world?
@GodsGrace, your Free-willian Philosophy includes everybody everywhere (believer and unbeliever considering entire lifetimes) in the scope of the word "world" in John 3:16, so your Free-willian Philosophy sums up as:
- God loves Daphne of the world before and after Daphne hears of Christ. Daphne chose to love/believe in Christ, so God rewards Daphne with eternal life.
- God loves Fred of the world before and after Fred hears of Christ. Fred chose not to love/believe in Christ, so God punishes Fred with eternal death.
- Conclusion: the Love of God is so very weak that people like Fred draw the Love of God to burn in hell for eternity according to your Free-willian Philosophy.
Your thoughts "Yes....God loves Fred...snip...Fred CHOSE not to be saved" preserves and maintains the third bullet as active:
Conclusion: the Love of God is so very weak that people like Fred draw the Love of God to burn in hell for eternity according to your Free-willian Philosophy.
The Sovereignty of God is described in “he who practices the Truth comes to the Light, that his works may be revealed, that they are having been worked in God” (John 3:21). God is love, and my loving God causes me and every Christian to be saved from the wrath of God! Thank you, Jesus, my Savior!
You do not believe “he who practices the Truth comes to the Light, that his works may be revealed, that they are having been worked in God” (John 3:21), so you believe that you are sovereign above God, so you believe anti-truth.
"I, YHWH your God, am a jealous God" (Exodus 20:5) says the Word of God, and the Word of God says "I will not give My glory to another" (Isaiah 42:8), so God jealously reserves the glory for man's salvation to God alone (Psalm 3:8, John 3:3-8, John 3:21, John 6:29).
Man in man's flesh jealously glorifies the man, and it is here that we find a corollary attribute between Eve and God - see that Eve jealously engaged in self-glorification.
In the absence of the Word of God declaring man was imparted a free-will, your heart (Matthew 15:16-19, Matthew 6:21) awards yourself a free-will. God never imparted Adam nor you nor anyone with a free-will, but you were created with a self-will (2 Peter 2:9-10).
You repeatedly convey "The word FOR means BECAUSE...snip...so I don't know why it present a problem" regarding John 3:16, yet it (a conjunction) is not a problem as described in post #6,494, an ancestor post to this current exchange. Your problem (deadly error) is you adulterating the Word of God as recorded in (John 3:14-16 by your illegal elimination of the grammatical function of the conjunction "for" ("because" would still function as a conjunction). The Word of God conclusively proves that the context establishes the word "world" as used by Jesus in John 3:16 includes ONLY the population of persons that currently believe in Jesus or will in the future believe in Jesus. Jesus died specifically for His chosen people.
Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men that leads to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9).
In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE GREAT I AM!!!
