Absolutely the blessing of salvation is predicated on the promise and the work of God and not our wills.
An Article on free will
- Thread starter TomL
- Start date
Rockson, I have not noticed your response to the following. In Free-Willian fashion, you give your thoughts without the foundation of the Word of God. Please respond to the below.
You please contend with the last post that God caused me to post just to you:
Rockson, please reply in detail to the following that was specifically addressed to you.
Your definition of "experience" for the word "see" invalidates the true definition of "see" which is "perceive", and this post explores the language and definitions of the word see"see", and this exploration includes an examination of your very own applications of the word "see".
In your writings here, you use "seeing" to indicate "perceiving" in a manner similar to your previous use of "sight" to indicate "perceive" (proof post #2,719), and neither of your usages, then nor now, indicate "experience", but both of your usages indicate "perceive". Let's explore the definition of the Greek word ἰδεῖν (Strong's 3708 - ὁράω (horaó) - to see, perceive, attend to) in Truth (John 14:6).
Your thoughts are that Jesus uses "see" to indicate "experience" instead of "perceive" because you found "experience" in the 3rd level definition on BibleHub.com for the Greek word ἰδεῖν (Strong's 3708 - ὁράω (horaó) - to see, perceive, attend to) specifically assigned to John 3:36 and Luke 17:22 with no mention of John 3:3 in the 3rd level definition, yet even John 3:36 and Luke 17:22 are fundamentally "perceive" over just "experience".
The Greek word ἰδεῖν (Strong's 3708 - ὁράω (horaó) - to see, perceive, attend to) denotes visual perception (BibleHub.com's 1st level definition), and the Greek word ἰδεῖν (Strong's 3708 - ὁράω (horaó) - to see, perceive, attend to) connotes mental perception (BibleHub.com's 2nd level definition), yet the Greek word ἰδεῖν (Strong's 3708 - ὁράω (horaó) - to see, perceive, attend to) fails to mean experience by perceiving in all situations because a person can experience an event without perceiving the event which renders invalid your application of experience by perceiving prioritizing BibleHub.com's 3rd level definition, and the reciprocal is equally invalid in that one person can perceive a second person yet the first person experiences to perceive not the second person thus confirming your illegal linguistics based upon BibleHub.com's 3rd level definition; therefore, both denotation and connotation for the Greek word ἰδεῖν (Strong's 3708 - ὁράω (horaó) - to see, perceive, attend to) must by definition include "perception" as an isolated concept.
In the Word of God, the word "SEEING" specifically corresponds to "PERCEIVE" as is found in "In their case the prophecy of Isaiah is being fulfilled, which says, ‘YOU WILL KEEP ON HEARING, BUT WILL NOT UNDERSTAND; YOU WILL KEEP ON SEEING, BUT WILL NOT PERCEIVE'" (Matthew 13:14), and the Hebrew of Isaiah 6:9 proves this absolute "SEEING" with purely "PERCEIVE" relationship wherein a certain person sees the Word of God yet fails to righteously perceive the Word of God because such a one cannot know that which he or she fails perceive in the righteous Holy Spirit of God, and the Word of God is "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God." (Lord Jesus Christ, John 3:3).
You wrote "I don't think you're seeing things clearly" in which you use "seeing" to fundamentally indicate "perceiving" against me, and you deny Jesus uses "see" to fundamentally indicate "perceive", so you believe in the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9) shown in the below left hand wrong side instead of the pure and Holy Word of God in the below right hand right side:
| The traditions of men | The Word of God | |
| Truly, truly, I say to you, before one is born again he can see the Kingdom of God (The Book of Free-willians 3:3) | Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God. (Lord Jesus Christ, John 3:3) |
Your hypocrisy about the word "see" is there for all to SEE.
By the way, your writing there offensively bears false witness against the Word of God and me.
Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).
In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE REDEEMER!!!
TibiasDad
Well-known member
Do you not experience perception? Is not perceiving something an experience? Is is possible to perceive something and yet not experience perception?
Doug
TibiasDad
Well-known member
BibleHub quotes Thayer’s lexicon and in no definition is Jn3:3 indicated as an example.
ἰδεῖν is the Aorist for ὁράω and visual sight or perception of the Kingdom of God is not the idea intended. VibleHub also quotes Meyers as saying “ἰδεῖν] i.e. as a partaker thereof. Comp. εἰσελθεῖν, John 3:5, and see John 3:36, also ἰδεῖν θάνατον (Luke 2:26; Hebrews 11:5), διαφθοράν (Acts 2:27), ἡμέρας ἀγαθάς (1 Peter 3:10), πένθος(Revelation 18:7)”
And many, if not all, allude to John 3:5 as an indicator that the experience of entering the Kingdom of God in an ultimate way is the intention of John: ie, you can not go to heaven if you’re not born again.
Doug
Rather, your hypocrisy is there for all to see
The Lexicons
5. see someth.=experience someth. (Ps 26:13); good days 1 Pt 3:10 (Ps 33:13; τ. βασιλείαν J 3:3. θάνατον see death=die Lk 2:26; Hb 11:5 (cf. Ps 88:49; Anth. Pal. 6, 230 ἰδεῖν Ἀίδην); grief Rv 18:7 (cf. 1 Macc 13:3 τὰς στενοχωρίας; Eccl 6:6 ἀγαθωσύνην). τὴν διαφθοράν experience decay=decay Ac 2:27, 31; 13:35-7 (all Ps 15:10); τ. ἡμέραν (Soph., Oed. R. 831; Aristoph., Pax 345; Polyb. 10, 4, 7; 32, 10, 9; Ael. Aristid. 32 p. 601 D.; Lam 2:16; Jos., Ant. 6, 305): τὴν ἡμέραν τ. ἐμήν J 8:56; μίαν τῶν ἡμερῶν Lk 17:22
William Arndt et al., A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature : A Translation and Adaption of the Fourth Revised and Augmented Edition of Walter Bauer’s Griechisch-Deutsches Worterbuch Zu Den Schrift En Des Neuen Testaments Und Der Ubrigen Urchristlichen Literatur (Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 1979), 221.
4. to experience ⇔ see — to experience something, conceived of as being present during the experience so as to view it
Rick Brannan, ed., Lexham Research Lexicon of the Greek New Testament (Lexham Research Lexicons; Bellingham, WA: Lexham Press, 2020).
As seen the context of John 3:3 is speaking of experiencing not visually seeing as you falsely claimed
Context
John 3:5 (NASB 2020) — 5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless someone is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.
Shows it means one cannot be a part of, enter into experience
Observed this well known Calvinist commentary
cannot see—can have no part in (just as one is said to “see life,” “see death,” &c.).
Robert Jamieson, A. R. Fausset, and David Brown, Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible (vol. 2; Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 1997), 131.
And this Calvinist Greek Scholar
He cannot see the kingdom of God (οὐ δυναται ἰδειν την βασιλειαν του θεου [ou dunatai idein tēn basileian tou theou]). To participate in it as in Luke 9:27. For this use of ἰδειν [idein] (second aorist active infinitive of ὁραω [horaō]) see John 8:51; Rev. 18:7.
A.T. Robertson, Word Pictures in the New Testament (Nashville, TN: Broadman Press, 1933), Jn 3:3.
And Calvin himself
To SEE the kingdom of God is of the same meaning as to ENTER INTO the kingdom of God, as we shall immediately perceive from the context
John Calvin and William Pringle, Commentary on the Gospel according to John (vol. 1; Bellingham, WA: Logos Bible Software, 2010), 108.
Also other verses using the word see
Luke 2:26And it was revealed unto him by the Holy Ghost, that he should not see death, before he had seen the Lord’s Christ.
John 3:36He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
John 8:51Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.
Heb 11:5By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
It is clear an honest handling of this word shows it pertains to experience, to enter, to obtain
As multiple lines of evidence show and only your intransigence denies
civic
Well-known member
Yes you buried his argument 6 feet under in a coffin where it belongs.
I did not call you nor @TomL nor @civic fraudulent in and of yourselves. Your statement "your choice of repeating certain concepts like calling us fraudulent" is in itself your, TibiasDad, fraudulently fabricated statement which you attributed to me in order for you to proceed to argue against your fraudulently fabricated statement instead of that which God caused me to write.
You and your free-willian colleagues have fraudulently fabricated false statements that you attributed to me, and you repeat your false witness against me in your very post that you just composed.
There is no "pill" for you to swallow.
The grace of God delivers a sinner from the wrath of God by the atoning sacrifice of Lord Jesus Christ. This is unearned love (grace) bestowed upon God's chosen people.
One believes in Jesus Christ or one believe not in Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ declares who He is.
You and your free-willian colleagues believe that your will is free from God, that is free-will, so your free-will is apart from Jesus Christ; furthermore, you believe that in your free-will, you choose Jesus Christ. This is no strawman. This is what you believe, and the concept propounded by you free-willians.
You free-willians have explained this very concept in this thread - a concept which you now deny. You can find TomL recorded trying to defend the free-will concept just mentioned way back in post #270.
You believe and teach that you come to Christ according to your own free-will.
Your belief that you "come to Christ as wrought in you" is diametrically opposed to the words of Christ whom you claim to believe “he who practices the Truth comes to the Light, so that his works may be manifested as having been wrought in God” (Lord Jesus Christ, John 3:21).
You cannot believe in Jesus Christ according to your own free-will because Jesus Christ says “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29) - either you believe Jesus or you believe not Jesus.
The Power of God (1 Corinthians 1:24) unilaterally delivers belief/faith into God's chosen persons (John 6:29, Ephesians 2:8-10), so God's promise is specifically for His chosen people.
You failed to explain your "strawman opponent", so I ask, will you try again? Or more importantly, will you believe the Word of God?
Here is the straightforward proposition for you. Six words in the following are in the color blue, and those six words I attribute to free-willian's hearts based on your Free-willian Philosophy. You claim that I ignorantly created a "strawman opponent", so I am now asking, will you please explain to me how you arrive at your "strawman opponent" conclusion about those six words which were presented to you in post #3,734 and are here to avoid any miscommunication?
“he who practices the Truth comes to the Light, so that his works may be manifested as having been wrought in God” (Lord Jesus Christ, John 3:21).
A part of Free-willian Philosophy holds that a person along with the person's will are separated from God, and in that state of separation, that person can choose God; therefore, you free-willians believe that "apart from Christ, I chose Christ", yet the Christ of us Christians declares "apart from me you can do nothing" (John 15:5) and "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God" (John 3:3) and “you did not choose Me, but I chose you” (John 15:16) and “I chose you out of the world” (John 15:19, includes salvation) and “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29), so you preach and teach and believe falsehood (2 Peter 2:1; 2 Peter 2:9-10).
Christ reveals that the love of Christ controls us believers (2 Corinthians 5:14), but your spirit declares that you control Christ with your purported choosing to believe in Christ which forces Christ to save you.
We Christians are in Christ exclusively because of the loving work of Christ, but you deny this fact (see 2 Peter 2:1 and John 3:3 and John 3:21 and John 15:5 and John 15:16, John 15:19, and John 6:29).
Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).
In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE GOD THE FATHER, THE HOLY SPIRIT, AND THE SON OF GOD, ALL THE ONE TRUE GOD!!!
civic
Well-known member
God is free and man was created in His image- free. So much for your fatalistic, deterministic god that doesn't exist.
God did not cause you to write, for what you write is contrary to the word of God and nothing more than your assumed theology
Along with much of his theology
civic
Well-known member
Ditto
TibiasDad
Well-known member
You are splitting hairs, Kermos; I refer only to your comments as they pertain to our arguments, not our person. However , a reference to me or us, is a reference to our argument; for if I or they made said argument , you are calling the author of the “fraudulent” argument fraudulent as well. You cannot separate the character of the author from the words the author writes. If what I say is a lie, am I not a liar?
My whole post was in answer to why it is a “strawman opponet”; we do not believe that we come to Christ sans God acting toward us first!
If a man cheats on his wife, does the repentant man mean the wife has to let me come home? No! Her desire and will is in complete control; she is the offended party, and she alone holds the power to allow reconciliation and restoration of the relationship.
The man’s begging and pleading does not obligate her to forgive or allow him to return; even if he desperately wants to do so! That’s why “works” or human desires are not able to save; if God doesn’t want to reconcile, all our efforts are wasted!
The gospel is God revealing that he wants to reconcile; that’s why we are given “the ministry of reconciliation”; our believing that he wants to means that our returning to him means we will be reconciled/ saved, because he has told us he wants to be reconciled. He made the first move; he makes the effectual choice; he says return to me and I will receive you. His promise is the only thing that affects anything. His promise is him saying “come home! I want to reconcile!” And as the old adage goes, it takes two to tango! Thus, we must want to be reconciled as well, thus our message, “Be reconciled to God”!
Doug
Last edited:
Yep. Determinism= Fatalism and a god that is other than the God of the bible
You committed your entire opening paragraph to attacking me instead of addressing the issue of your Free-willian Philosophy founded upon "apart from Christ, I chose Christ",
Read that which you posted to attack me, again, TibiasDad, "your choice of repeating certain concepts like calling us fraudulent". That is a verbatim quote of the words that came out of your heart.
A fraudster is a person who commits a fraudulent act. A fraunster is a real person, not a fraudulent person.
I never called any of you a fraudulent person. Your new statement "you are calling the author of the 'fraudulent' argument fraudulent as well" is in itself your, TibiasDad, fraudulently fabricated statement which you attributed to me in order for you to proceed to argue against your fraudulently fabricated statement instead of that which God caused me to write.
You and your free-willian colleagues have fraudulently fabricated false statements that you attributed to me, and you repeat your false witness against me in your attack post that you just composed.
Your writing there negates the Word of God, as shall be visible in a moment.
You describe "God acting toward us first" instead of "God working in us first". The left column contains your traditions of men (Matthew 15:9), and the right column contains the Righteous Word of God!
| The traditions of men | The Word of God | |
| This is not the work of God but this is the work of man, that you believe in Him whom He has sent (The Book of Free-willians 6:29) | This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent (Lord Jesus Christ, John 6:29) | |
| the one choosing to practice the Truth comes to the Light so that his works may be manifested as having been wrought in him (The Book of Free-willians 3:21) | the one practicing the Truth comes to the Light, so that his works may be manifested as having been wrought in God (Lord Jesus Christ, John 3:21) | |
| Truly, truly, I say to you, before one is born again he can see the Kingdom of God[ (The Book of Free-willians 3:3) | Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God (Lord Jesus Christ, John 3:3) | |
| I praise You, man, that you have revealed these things to yourselves for you are the wise and intelligent ones who cause yourselves to repent and be born of God (self-willed man's sayings 11:25) | I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent and have revealed them to babes (Lord Jesus Christ, Matthew 11:25) | |
| A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even according to your fleshly love, that you also love one another (The Book of Free-willians 13:34) | A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another (Lord Jesus Christ, John 13:34) | |
| You chose Me, but I choose everybody everywhere in all time (The Book of Free-willians 15:16) | you did not choose Me, but I chose you (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:16) | |
| I chose Jesus, so now Jesus must obey me to make me out of the world (self-willed man's sayings 15:19) | I chose you out of the world (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:19) |
Your thesis of "If a man cheats on his wife, does the repentant man mean the wife has to let me come home? No!" is flawed on several points.
First, God forgives the repentant person. You wrote that God breaks God's promise!
Second, unlike your wife example, Holy Father actually sent His Beloved Son to atone for the sins of all His chosen people (John 1:29), so the One True God lovingly reconciled as Christians to Himself. Here is the Gospel of Jesus.
Third, you wrote "our believing that he wants to means that our returning to him means we will be reconciled/ saved, because he has told us he wants to be reconciled" and your believing there is a work of you instead of the work of God according to Free-willian Philosophy, so your foundation is your self-willed believing (2 Peter 2:9-10). For us Christians, believing is the work of God because the Word of God declares "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent
(Lord Jesus Christ, John 6:29).
Now, TibiasDad, back to the free-willian philosophy of "apart from Christ, I chose Christ" and your faulty accusation that it is a "strawman opponent".
You failed to explain your "strawman opponent", so I ask, will you try again? Or more importantly, will you believe the Word of God?
Here is the straightforward proposition for you. Six words in the following are in the color blue, and those six words I attribute to free-willian's hearts based on your Free-willian Philosophy. You claim that I ignorantly created a "strawman opponent", so I am now asking, will you please explain to me how you arrive at your "strawman opponent" conclusion about those six words which were presented to you in post #3,734 and are here to avoid any miscommunication?
“he who practices the Truth comes to the Light, so that his works may be manifested as having been wrought in God” (Lord Jesus Christ, John 3:21).
A part of Free-willian Philosophy holds that a person along with the person's will are separated from God, and in that state of separation, that person can choose God; therefore, you free-willians believe that "apart from Christ, I chose Christ", yet the Christ of us Christians declares "apart from me you can do nothing" (John 15:5) and "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God" (John 3:3) and “you did not choose Me, but I chose you” (John 15:16) and “I chose you out of the world” (John 15:19, includes salvation) and “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29), so you preach and teach and believe falsehood (2 Peter 2:1; 2 Peter 2:9-10).
Christ reveals that the love of Christ controls us believers (2 Corinthians 5:14), but your spirit declares that you control Christ with your purported choosing to believe in Christ which forces Christ to save you.
We Christians are in Christ exclusively because of the loving work of Christ, but you deny this fact (see 2 Peter 2:1 and John 3:3 and John 3:21 and John 15:5 and John 15:16, John 15:19, and John 6:29).
Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).
In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE GOD THE FATHER, THE HOLY SPIRIT, AND THE SON OF GOD, ALL THE ONE TRUE GOD!!!
civic
Well-known member
You and your fatalistic colleagues have fraudulently fabricated false statements that you attributed to us, and you repeat your false witness against us in your attacks you post that you compose on a daily basis.
Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Fatalism/ determinism is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).
Your spirit must be tested to see if your spirit is self-willed or the image of Christ. The Apostle John wrote "Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world" (1 John 4:1).
You flaming arrows fail against the armor of God (Ephesians 6:13). Look back at your four replies to the following.
You accuse the Holy Spirit of God who causes me to show your adulterations to Holy Scripture - just read the following.
@TibiasDad is spot on for Free-willian Philosophy, and you are spot on for Free-willian Philosophy, also, just as illumined in the following.
I'm sticking with where we last left off, civic. Oh, your question was addressed below, before you asked.
“The one practicing the Truth comes to the Light, so that his works may be manifested as having been wrought in God” (John 3:21)
You and @TomL preach that "apart from Christ, I chose Christ", yet the Christ of us Christians declares "apart from me you can do nothing" (John 15:5) and "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God" (John 3:3) and “you did not choose Me, but I chose you” (John 15:16) and “I chose you out of the world” (John 15:19, includes salvation), so you teach falsehood (2 Peter 2:1; 2 Peter 2:9-10).
CHRIST' FRAUDULENT PURCHASE OF PEOPLE UNTO ETERNAL LIFE is your teaching because you believe false teachers are purchased/bought by Christ yet the false teachers are snatched out of His Hand. YOUR FALSE TEACHING IS CHRIST'S FAILURE ATONEMENT. The evidence is presented below.
The noun "Master" is the object for the verb "bought"; therefore, the unsupported word "who" adulterates 2 Peter 2:1. Your image of the grammatical construction illegally adds the word "who".
I reject your commands based on your teaching being false.
Yes it’s all Greek to himhis Greek is the equivalent of my Aramaic- non existent
Says the person named civic, but let's see the other things that you say.
CONFUSION ATONEMENT BY THE CHRIST is your preaching based upon your abuse of Holy Scripture as demonstrated in the following. You believe Christ bought eternal life for the false prophets mentioned in 2 Peter 2:1 and/or false teachers who lie and deceive about Christ; therefore, you preach that Christ delivers believer and unbeliever which is commonly called universal atonement but it is really confusion atonement.
In Truth (John 14:6), "God is not a God of confusion but of peace" (1 Corinthians 14:33). God loves justice (Isaiah 61:8); moreover, "The one believing in the Son has eternal life, but the one not obeying the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him" (John 3:36).
Because of my God who seized me as part of His Holy Nation, I believe our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus, gave Himself for us to redeem us from every lawless work, and to purify for Himself a people for His own possession, zealous for good works (see Titus 2:13-14).
Your heart's universal atonement destroys God's justice, so you preach confusion atonement.
Yes, let's look at some more quotes from you.
That is a telling passage, civic, thank you for mentioning it!
They answered and said to Him, “Abraham is our father.” Jesus said to them, “If you are Abraham’s children, do the deeds of Abraham. But as it is, you are seeking to kill Me, a man who has told you the truth, which I heard from God; this Abraham did not do. You are doing the deeds of your father." They said to Him, “We were not born of fornication; we have one Father: God.” Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and have come from God, for I have not even come on My own initiative, but He sent Me. Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you cannot hear My word. You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies. But because I speak the truth, you do not believe Me"
(John 8:39-45)
When a person's heart practices the lawlessness of making false statements about God and man, then such a person magnifies his or her father the devil.
See the post to which you replied, and you will see the evidence of @TomL's deception.
Let us see your deceiving prophecy leads to Christ's failure atonement, and the method of your lie about me when you called me a man wearing woman's clothing theologian.
Now, back to where you and I left off recently.
You indicate no repentance. You indicate no apology for bearing false witness. You intensify you application of "gobblygook" against the very Word of God!
You linguistic and research skills are impaired, and the proof is that the Oxford English Dictionary (OED) includes not the word "gobblygook" nor a definition for the word as per this link to the actual OED, https://www.oed.com/search/dictionary/?scope=Entries&q=gobblygook , instead of your faulty link to Google that opens to a "Learn about Dictionary boxes on Google" without any mention of the word "gobblygook" on the page!
Now, back to where we left off.
Behold the free-willian, civic, who insults and denies the Word of God that one must be born of God in order to even by able to perceive God (John 3:3) and believe in God (John 3:3-21), that free-willian civic labels this lovingly wonderful Word of God "gobbly" "gook" - "turkey" "excrement".
You called all the precious Word of God in post #3,250 your translated phrase "turkey dung".
Now, civic, let's return to where we left off.
You insulted me by calling me an abomination to God because it is written "neither shall a man put on women’s clothing; for whoever does these things is an abomination to Yahweh your God" (Deuteronomy 22:5), so you wickedly bear false witness against me. But you do not stop there, the depth of your depravity attributes your lie of me being a cross dresser as being caused by God. Your behavior is non-christian.
As I explained to you, I do not plan to stop talking about these verses that you quoted which you adulterate that demonstrate your thoughts that lead to Christ's failure atonement according to your traditions of men a.k.a. the Book of Free-willians. The verses to discuss are shown below.
God causes me to visit each and every verse that you quoted.
As a reminder for you, for the definition of the word "world", you hold a death grip on "the ungodly multitude; the whole mass of men alienated from God, and therefore hostile to the cause of Christ".
According to your Free-willian Philosophy, the following represents fleshly people, dead in sin, ungodly multitude, unbelievers:
- if Tom of the world chooses to believe in Christ before he dies, then God must profit Tom with eternal life being saved from the wrath of God.
- if Nancy of the world chooses to believe not in Christ right until her dying thoughts, then God must punish Nancy with eternal damnation being under the wrath of God.
- The conclusion: Christ succeeded in saving Tom of the world, and Christ failed in saving Nancy of the world.
Your adulteration of the Holy Scripture is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:
| The Book of Free-willians | The Book of John | |
| The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who fails to take away the sin of the world! (civic 1:29) | The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world! (John 1:29) |
Your adulteration of the Holy Scripture is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:
| The Book of Free-willians | The Book of Hebrews | |
| But we do see Jesus, who was made lower than the angels for a little while, now crowned with glory and honor because he ineffectively suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might ineffectually taste death for everyone like Judas Iscariot and people like Tom and people like Nancy of the world who are eternally under the wrath of God. (civic 2:9) | But we do see Jesus, who was made lower than the angels for a little while, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone. (Hebrews 2:9) |
Your adulteration of the Holy Scripture is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:
| The Book of Free-willians | The Book of Titus | |
| For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men, even people like Nancy of the world who are eternally under the wrath of God but they enjoy salvation but they suffer punishment but they enjoy salvation-punishment (civic 2:11) | For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men, (Titus 2:11) |
Your adulteration of the Holy Scripture is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:
| The Book of Free-willians | The Book of Titus | |
| But when the kindness and the love of mankind which includes God-displeasing sin-immersed self-willed under the wrath of God people like Nancy of God our Savior appeared (civic 3:4) | But when the kindness and the love of mankind of God our Savior appeared (Titus 3:4) |
Lord Jesus says "men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their works were evil. For everyone who does evil hates the Light" (John 3:19-20) in the immediately same conversation as John 3:16!
Your adulteration of the Holy Word of God is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:
| The word of civic | The Word of God | |
| For God so loved the world like Judas Iscariot and people like Tom and people like Nancy of the world who are eternally under the wrath of God that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever loving the darkness hating the Light by self-will choosing to believe in him shall not perish but have eternal life. (civic 3:16) | For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. (John 3:16) |
Your adulteration of the Holy Scripture is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:
| The First Book of Free-willians | The First Book of Timothy | |
| Who will have all men to be saved, but God's will fails miserably with saving people like Nancy of the world who are eternally under the wrath of God, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. (1 civic 2:4) | Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. (1 Timothy 2:4) |
Your adulteration of the Holy Scripture is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:
| The Second Book of Free-willians | The Second Book of Peter | |
| The Lord breaks his promise because he is patient with you people like Nancy of the world who will never be a part of the Body of Christ, not wishing that any should perish but people like Nancy perish without ever coming to repentance. (2 civic 3:9) | The Lord does not delay his promise, as some regard “delay,” but he is patient with you, not wishing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. (2 Peter 3:9) |
Notice the phrase "the whole world" occurs twice in the same book with the same author, the First Book of John inspired by the glorious Holy Spirit.
You brought up 1 John 2:2 which shall be examined in a moment, and the other location is "We know that we are of God, and that the whole world lies in the power of the evil one" (1 John 5:19).
The Apostle John further wrote "you have overcome the evil one" (1 John 2:13), and John uses the "you" to refer to Christians exclusively; therefore, no Christian lies in the evil one, so current Christians are excluded from "the whole world" in 1 John 5:19.
Your adulteration of the Holy Scripture is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:
| The First Book of Free-willians | The First Book of John | |
| He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of people like Nancy of the whole world who lie in the power of the evil one, even until they stop breathing, Christ's atoning sacrifice fails for ones such as people like Nancy. (1 civic 2:2) | He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world. (1 John 2:2) |
Crucially, you quoted where the Apostle declares THE LOVE OF CHRIST CONTROLS US! BEAUTIFUL CHRIST!!! But you free-willians absolve yourselves from being controlled by Christ.
Your adulteration of the Holy Scripture is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:
| The Second Book of Free-willians | The Second Book to the Corinthians | |
| For Christ’s love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died and now live in Christ, including people like Nancy of the whole world who lie in the power of the evil one, even until they stop breathing (2 civic 5:14) | For the love of Christ controls us, having concluded this, that one died for all, therefore all died (2 Corinthians 5:14) |
You quoted your Calvinist god Loraine Boettner, and his quote reinforces that your Free-willian Philosophy abounds in confusion.
We Christians have a God of order, for it is written "God is not a God of confusion but of peace, as in all the assemblies of the holy ones" (1 Corinthians 14:33).
Your blanket statements after you quote your god Boettner errantly coupled with your use of scripture are traditions of men.
Your spirit makes false statements about God and man (1 John 4:1). Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).
In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! THE LORD IS MY SALVATION!!!
I explained what I was laughing at in my previous comment. You want your Hindu-like Elect/non-Elect Caste System to cloud and infect what the Bible actually says about Christ and our salvation. Christ is NOT a Hindu god that has instituted a Hindu-like Elect/non-Elect Caste System for our salvation. What is your Hindu pagan god going to do to me? Strike me with a thunderbolt?
You continue to misrepresent me on which RB's paragraph my comments were actually directed to. It's not beneath you to do that. See this link:
In fact, it's not beneath you to keep running away from Bible verses that expose the heresies of calvinism. I counted at least 4 times where you previously ran away and continue to run away from the truths of the Bible. See this link:
Run Kermos Run!
civic
Well-known member
Spiritual blindness coming from a carnal mind
It really is rather amusing seeing to quote/misquote that verse as you do not believe the verse as written in the scriptures
As God only takes away the sin of a few preselected individuals in your theology
The book of fatalism
The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the few he unconditionally preselected before the foundation of the world all the rest are just out of luck
civic
Well-known member
Yep
