An Article on free will

[Kermos]

Repeat ad nasaeum

Seems that is all Kermos has

The following Word of God is that which the both of you call nauseous! No Christian calls the Word of God nauseating.

The gracious Benefactor of us Christians exclusively produces

1. divine choice of we beneficiaries unto salvation, for the Christ of us Christians says “you did not choose Me, but I chose you” (John 15:16) and “I chose you out of the world” (John 15:19)
   AND, Paul is in accord with Jesus’ words for he wrote to the Ephesians “Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly [places] in Christ, just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him in love” (Ephesians 1:3-4)
   SO, clearly, Jesus’ words in John 15:16 and John 15:19 state God exclusively chooses us believers by/of/through God
2. beneficiaries’ faith/belief in Lord Jesus, for the Christ of us Christians says (see also a word about belief/faith (Greek πίστις pistis) and believe (Greek πιστεύω pisteuó))
   “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29)
   AND Paul is in accord with Jesus’ words for Paul wrote to the Ephesians “by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, [it is] the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His work” (Ephesians 2:8-10)
   AND Peter is in accord with Jesus’ words for Peter declared “God, who knows the heart, testified to them giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us; and He made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith” (Acts 15:8-9)
   SO, clearly, Jesus’ words in John 6:29 state for us believers to believe in Jesus whom the Father has sent is exclusively by/of/through God
3. beneficiaries’ fruit of the Spirit/righteous actions/good works, for the Christ of us Christians says
   “he who practices the Truth comes to the Light, so that his works may be manifested as having been wrought in God” (John 3:21)
   AND Paul is in accord with Jesus’ words for he wrote to the Philippians “being filled with the fruit of righteousness that [is] by Jesus Christ, to the glory and praise of God” (Philippians 1:11)
   SO, clearly, Jesus’ words in John 3:21 state fruit in we believers is exclusively by/of/through God
4. beneficiaries’ birth by the Holy Spirit, for the Christ of us Christians says "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God" (John 3:3) as well as “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit” (John 3:5-8)
   AND Peter is in accord with Jesus’ words for he wrote to persons residing as aliens “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead” (1 Peter 1:3)
   SO, clearly, Jesus’ words in John 3:5-8 state we believers being born again is exclusively by/of/through God
5. beneficiaries’ repent by God’s working, for the Christ of us Christians says
   “I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent and have revealed them to babes” (Matthew 11:25)
   AND the apostles and elders are in accord with Jesus’ words with thier saying, “Well then, God has given to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life” (Acts 11:18)
   SO, clearly, Jesus’ words in Matthew 11:25 state that God exclusively causes man to think differently after an encounter with God (repent means to think differently afterward)
6. beneficiaries’ love by God’s working, for the Christ of us Christians says
   “A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another” (John 13:34)
   AND John is in accord with Jesus’ words for he wrote “Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God” (1 John 4:7, see the phrase “love is from God” meaning God is the source of true love)
   AND John expands with his writing of “God is Love, and the one who abides in Love abides in God, and God abides in him” (1 John 4:16, see the phrase “one who abides in Love” is equivocated with “one who abides” “in God” which extends from God’s exclusivity with “God is Love”)
   SO, clearly, Jesus’ words in John 13:34 states that the love, true love (John 3:33), the very righteous love, the Godly love within us children of God, this love is exclusively by/of/through God

And here we have the Truth (John 14:6), the love of Christ controls us believers (2 Corinthians 5:14)!

No Word of God you cite states man was imparted a free-will to choose toward God, but here is the Word of God which clearly states man does not choose God to any degree!

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE REVEALER OF TRUTH, LORD JESUS CHRIST!!!

 

[civic]

The following Word of God is that which the both of you call nauseous! No Christian calls the Word of God nauseating.

The gracious Benefactor of us Christians exclusively produces

1. divine choice of we beneficiaries unto salvation, for the Christ of us Christians says “you did not choose Me, but I chose you” (John 15:16) and “I chose you out of the world” (John 15:19)
   AND, Paul is in accord with Jesus’ words for he wrote to the Ephesians “Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly [places] in Christ, just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him in love” (Ephesians 1:3-4)
   SO, clearly, Jesus’ words in John 15:16 and John 15:19 state God exclusively chooses us believers by/of/through God
2. beneficiaries’ faith/belief in Lord Jesus, for the Christ of us Christians says (see also a word about belief/faith (Greek πίστις pistis) and believe (Greek πιστεύω pisteuó))
   “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29)
   AND Paul is in accord with Jesus’ words for Paul wrote to the Ephesians “by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, [it is] the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His work” (Ephesians 2:8-10)
   AND Peter is in accord with Jesus’ words for Peter declared “God, who knows the heart, testified to them giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us; and He made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith” (Acts 15:8-9)
   SO, clearly, Jesus’ words in John 6:29 state for us believers to believe in Jesus whom the Father has sent is exclusively by/of/through God
3. beneficiaries’ fruit of the Spirit/righteous actions/good works, for the Christ of us Christians says
   “he who practices the Truth comes to the Light, so that his works may be manifested as having been wrought in God” (John 3:21)
   AND Paul is in accord with Jesus’ words for he wrote to the Philippians “being filled with the fruit of righteousness that [is] by Jesus Christ, to the glory and praise of God” (Philippians 1:11)
   SO, clearly, Jesus’ words in John 3:21 state fruit in we believers is exclusively by/of/through God
4. beneficiaries’ birth by the Holy Spirit, for the Christ of us Christians says "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God" (John 3:3) as well as “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit” (John 3:5-8)
   AND Peter is in accord with Jesus’ words for he wrote to persons residing as aliens “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead” (1 Peter 1:3)
   SO, clearly, Jesus’ words in John 3:5-8 state we believers being born again is exclusively by/of/through God
5. beneficiaries’ repent by God’s working, for the Christ of us Christians says
   “I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent and have revealed them to babes” (Matthew 11:25)
   AND the apostles and elders are in accord with Jesus’ words with thier saying, “Well then, God has given to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life” (Acts 11:18)
   SO, clearly, Jesus’ words in Matthew 11:25 state that God exclusively causes man to think differently after an encounter with God (repent means to think differently afterward)
6. beneficiaries’ love by God’s working, for the Christ of us Christians says
   “A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another” (John 13:34)
   AND John is in accord with Jesus’ words for he wrote “Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God” (1 John 4:7, see the phrase “love is from God” meaning God is the source of true love)
   AND John expands with his writing of “God is Love, and the one who abides in Love abides in God, and God abides in him” (1 John 4:16, see the phrase “one who abides in Love” is equivocated with “one who abides” “in God” which extends from God’s exclusivity with “God is Love”)
   SO, clearly, Jesus’ words in John 13:34 states that the love, true love (John 3:33), the very righteous love, the Godly love within us children of God, this love is exclusively by/of/through God

And here we have the Truth (John 14:6), the love of Christ controls us believers (2 Corinthians 5:14)!

No Word of God you cite states man was imparted a free-will to choose toward God, but here is the Word of God which clearly states man does not choose God to any degree!

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE REVEALER OF TRUTH, LORD JESUS CHRIST!!!

Did you sin before you believed ?

Do you sin now ?

Remember you quoted this “ You hate all who do iniquity“

Sin is iniquity !!!

So you just admitted God hates you.

Next

 

[Kermos]

@Kermos

Did you sin before you believed ?

Do you sin now ?

Remember you quoted this “ You hate all who do iniquity“

Sin is iniquity !!!

So you just admitted God hates you.

Next

Don't try to make this about my actions, civic.

I'm talking about my marvelously wonderful God and Savior Jesus Christ, who actions cleanse me and every Christian of our sin according to the exclusive Power of God without any volition by man to the majestic glory of God by God's grace!!!

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE MY LIVING REDEEMER!!!

 

[civic]

Don't try to make this about my actions, civic.

I'm talking about my marvelously wonderful God and Savior Jesus Christ, who actions cleanse me and every Christian of our sin according to the exclusive Power of God without any volition by man to the majestic glory of God by God's grace!!!

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE MY LIVING REDEEMER!!!

Cop out you just condemned yourself either way by claiming your sinless like Jesus or God hates all ( yourself included) who sin, do iniquity . The facts are you sinned before you claimed to know God and afterwards.

Next

 

[TomL]

The following Word of God is that which the both of you call nauseous! No Christian calls the Word of God nauseating.

The gracious Benefactor of us Christians exclusively produces

1. divine choice of we beneficiaries unto salvation, for the Christ of us Christians says “you did not choose Me, but I chose you” (John 15:16) and “I chose you out of the world” (John 15:19)
   AND, Paul is in accord with Jesus’ words for he wrote to the Ephesians “Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly [places] in Christ, just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him in love” (Ephesians 1:3-4)
   SO, clearly, Jesus’ words in John 15:16 and John 15:19 state God exclusively chooses us believers by/of/through God
2. beneficiaries’ faith/belief in Lord Jesus, for the Christ of us Christians says (see also a word about belief/faith (Greek πίστις pistis) and believe (Greek πιστεύω pisteuó))
   “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29)
   AND Paul is in accord with Jesus’ words for Paul wrote to the Ephesians “by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, [it is] the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His work” (Ephesians 2:8-10)
   AND Peter is in accord with Jesus’ words for Peter declared “God, who knows the heart, testified to them giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us; and He made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith” (Acts 15:8-9)
   SO, clearly, Jesus’ words in John 6:29 state for us believers to believe in Jesus whom the Father has sent is exclusively by/of/through God
3. beneficiaries’ fruit of the Spirit/righteous actions/good works, for the Christ of us Christians says
   “he who practices the Truth comes to the Light, so that his works may be manifested as having been wrought in God” (John 3:21)
   AND Paul is in accord with Jesus’ words for he wrote to the Philippians “being filled with the fruit of righteousness that [is] by Jesus Christ, to the glory and praise of God” (Philippians 1:11)
   SO, clearly, Jesus’ words in John 3:21 state fruit in we believers is exclusively by/of/through God
4. beneficiaries’ birth by the Holy Spirit, for the Christ of us Christians says "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God" (John 3:3) as well as “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit” (John 3:5-8)
   AND Peter is in accord with Jesus’ words for he wrote to persons residing as aliens “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead” (1 Peter 1:3)
   SO, clearly, Jesus’ words in John 3:5-8 state we believers being born again is exclusively by/of/through God
5. beneficiaries’ repent by God’s working, for the Christ of us Christians says
   “I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent and have revealed them to babes” (Matthew 11:25)
   AND the apostles and elders are in accord with Jesus’ words with thier saying, “Well then, God has given to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life” (Acts 11:18)
   SO, clearly, Jesus’ words in Matthew 11:25 state that God exclusively causes man to think differently after an encounter with God (repent means to think differently afterward)
6. beneficiaries’ love by God’s working, for the Christ of us Christians says
   “A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another” (John 13:34)
   AND John is in accord with Jesus’ words for he wrote “Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God” (1 John 4:7, see the phrase “love is from God” meaning God is the source of true love)
   AND John expands with his writing of “God is Love, and the one who abides in Love abides in God, and God abides in him” (1 John 4:16, see the phrase “one who abides in Love” is equivocated with “one who abides” “in God” which extends from God’s exclusivity with “God is Love”)
   SO, clearly, Jesus’ words in John 13:34 states that the love, true love (John 3:33), the very righteous love, the Godly love within us children of God, this love is exclusively by/of/through God

And here we have the Truth (John 14:6), the love of Christ controls us believers (2 Corinthians 5:14)!

No Word of God you cite states man was imparted a free-will to choose toward God, but here is the Word of God which clearly states man does not choose God to any degree!

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE REVEALER OF TRUTH, LORD JESUS CHRIST!!!

It's your twisting of scripture which is nauseating

The following Word of God is that which the both of you call nauseous! No Christian calls the Word of God nauseating.

The gracious Benefactor of us Christians exclusively produces

1. divine choice of we beneficiaries unto salvation, for the Christ of us Christians says “you did not choose Me, but I chose you” (John 15:16) and “I chose you out of the world” (John 15:19)
   AND, Paul is in accord with Jesus’ words for he wrote to the Ephesians “Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly [places] in Christ, just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him in love” (Ephesians 1:3-4)
   SO, clearly, Jesus’ words in John 15:16 and John 15:19 state God exclusively chooses us believers by/of/through God
2. beneficiaries’ faith/belief in Lord Jesus, for the Christ of us Christians says (see also a word about belief/faith (Greek πίστις pistis) and believe (Greek πιστεύω pisteuó))
   “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29)
   AND Paul is in accord with Jesus’ words for Paul wrote to the Ephesians “by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, [it is] the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His work” (Ephesians 2:8-10)
   AND Peter is in accord with Jesus’ words for Peter declared “God, who knows the heart, testified to them giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us; and He made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith” (Acts 15:8-9)
   SO, clearly, Jesus’ words in John 6:29 state for us believers to believe in Jesus whom the Father has sent is exclusively by/of/through God
3. beneficiaries’ fruit of the Spirit/righteous actions/good works, for the Christ of us Christians says
   “he who practices the Truth comes to the Light, so that his works may be manifested as having been wrought in God” (John 3:21)
   AND Paul is in accord with Jesus’ words for he wrote to the Philippians “being filled with the fruit of righteousness that [is] by Jesus Christ, to the glory and praise of God” (Philippians 1:11)
   SO, clearly, Jesus’ words in John 3:21 state fruit in we believers is exclusively by/of/through God
4. beneficiaries’ birth by the Holy Spirit, for the Christ of us Christians says "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God" (John 3:3) as well as “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit” (John 3:5-8)
   AND Peter is in accord with Jesus’ words for he wrote to persons residing as aliens “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead” (1 Peter 1:3)
   SO, clearly, Jesus’ words in John 3:5-8 state we believers being born again is exclusively by/of/through God
5. beneficiaries’ repent by God’s working, for the Christ of us Christians says
   “I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent and have revealed them to babes” (Matthew 11:25)
   AND the apostles and elders are in accord with Jesus’ words with thier saying, “Well then, God has given to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life” (Acts 11:18)
   SO, clearly, Jesus’ words in Matthew 11:25 state that God exclusively causes man to think differently after an encounter with God (repent means to think differently afterward)
6. beneficiaries’ love by God’s working, for the Christ of us Christians says
   “A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another” (John 13:34)
   AND John is in accord with Jesus’ words for he wrote “Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God” (1 John 4:7, see the phrase “love is from God” meaning God is the source of true love)
   AND John expands with his writing of “God is Love, and the one who abides in Love abides in God, and God abides in him” (1 John 4:16, see the phrase “one who abides in Love” is equivocated with “one who abides” “in God” which extends from God’s exclusivity with “God is Love”)
   SO, clearly, Jesus’ words in John 13:34 states that the love, true love (John 3:33), the very righteous love, the Godly love within us children of God, this love is exclusively by/of/through God

And here we have the Truth (John 14:6), the love of Christ controls us believers (2 Corinthians 5:14)!

No Word of God you cite states man was imparted a free-will to choose toward God, but here is the Word of God which clearly states man does not choose God to any degree!

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE REVEALER OF TRUTH, LORD JESUS CHRIST!!!

address this instead of simply repeating yourself over and over

sorry but you show no such thing

Posting random reference with a text or argument shows nothing

Deuteronomy 30:11–19 (LSB) — 11 “For this commandment which I am commanding you today is not too difficult for you, nor is it far from you. 12 “It is not in heaven, that you should say, ‘Who will go up to heaven for us and get it for us and make us hear it, that we may do it?’ 13 “Nor is it beyond the sea, that you should say, ‘Who will cross the sea for us and get it for us and make us hear it, that we may do it?’ 14 “But the word is very near you, in your mouth and in your heart, that you may do it. 15 “See, I have set before you today life and prosperity, and death and calamity; 16 in that I am commanding you today to love Yahweh your God, to walk in His ways, and to keep His commandments and His statutes and His judgments, that you may live and multiply, and that Yahweh your God may bless you in the land where you are entering to possess it. 17 “But if your heart turns away and you will not listen, but are drawn away and worship other gods and serve them, 18 I declare to you today that you shall surely perish. You will not prolong your days in the land where you are crossing the Jordan to enter and possess it. 19 “I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. So choose life in order that you may live, you and your seed,

Joshua 24:15–24 (LSB) — 15 “If it is evil in your sight to serve Yahweh, choose for yourselves today whom you will serve: whether the gods which your fathers served which were beyond the River or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you are living; but as for me and my house, we will serve Yahweh.” 16 And the people answered and said, “Far be it from us that we should forsake Yahweh to serve other gods; 17 for Yahweh our God is He who brought us and our fathers up out of the land of Egypt, from the house of slavery, and who did these great signs in our sight and kept us through all the way in which we went and among all the peoples through whose midst we passed. 18 “And Yahweh drove out from before us all the peoples, even the Amorites who lived in the land. We also will serve Yahweh, for He is our God.” 19 Then Joshua said to the people, “You will not be able to serve Yahweh, for He is a holy God. He is a jealous God; He will not forgive your transgression or your sins. 20 “If you forsake Yahweh and serve foreign gods, then He will turn and do you harm and consume you after He has done good to you.” 21 And the people said to Joshua, “No, but we will serve Yahweh.” 22 And Joshua said to the people, “You are witnesses against yourselves that you have chosen for yourselves Yahweh, to serve Him.” And they said, “We are witnesses.” 23 “So now, put away the foreign gods which are in your midst, and incline your hearts to Yahweh, the God of Israel.” 24 And the people said to Joshua, “We will serve Yahweh our God, and we will listen to His voice.”



Nope I call your bible denying blather a falsehood

You did nothing at all to show man lacked the capacity to make a choice to choose life and walk inb the ways of Yahweh

Deuteronomy 30:11–19 (LSB) — 11 “For this commandment which I am commanding you today is not too difficult for you, nor is it far from you. 12 “It is not in heaven, that you should say, ‘Who will go up to heaven for us and get it for us and make us hear it, that we may do it?’ 13 “Nor is it beyond the sea, that you should say, ‘Who will cross the sea for us and get it for us and make us hear it, that we may do it?’ 14 “But the word is very near you, in your mouth and in your heart, that you may do it. 15 “See, I have set before you today life and prosperity, and death and calamity; 16 in that I am commanding you today to love Yahweh your God, to walk in His ways, and to keep His commandments and His statutes and His judgments, that you may live and multiply, and that Yahweh your God may bless you in the land where you are entering to possess it. 17 “But if your heart turns away and you will not listen, but are drawn away and worship other gods and serve them, 18 I declare to you today that you shall surely perish. You will not prolong your days in the land where you are crossing the Jordan to enter and possess it. 19 “I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. So choose life in order that you may live, you and your seed,

that further from this passage Paul writes

Romans 10:6–17 (KJV 1900) — 6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above 7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.) 8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; 9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. 12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. 14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! 16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? 17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

you also did nothing at all to dispute man's ability to make a choice of which God he shall serve

Joshua 24:15–24 (LSB) — 15 “If it is evil in your sight to serve Yahweh, choose for yourselves today whom you will serve: whether the gods which your fathers served which were beyond the River or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you are living; but as for me and my house, we will serve Yahweh.” 16 And the people answered and said, “Far be it from us that we should forsake Yahweh to serve other gods; 17 for Yahweh our God is He who brought us and our fathers up out of the land of Egypt, from the house of slavery, and who did these great signs in our sight and kept us through all the way in which we went and among all the peoples through whose midst we passed. 18 “And Yahweh drove out from before us all the peoples, even the Amorites who lived in the land. We also will serve Yahweh, for He is our God.” 19 Then Joshua said to the people, “You will not be able to serve Yahweh, for He is a holy God. He is a jealous God; He will not forgive your transgression or your sins. 20 “If you forsake Yahweh and serve foreign gods, then He will turn and do you harm and consume you after He has done good to you.” 21 And the people said to Joshua, “No, but we will serve Yahweh.” 22 And Joshua said to the people, “You are witnesses against yourselves that you have chosen for yourselves Yahweh, to serve Him.” And they said, “We are witnesses.” 23 “So now, put away the foreign gods which are in your midst, and incline your hearts to Yahweh, the God of Israel.” 24 And the people said to Joshua, “We will serve Yahweh our God, and we will listen to His voice.”

You simply framed your comments to avoid the obvious mention of their ability to argue, it does not state how this ability was given

Ignoring the elephant in the house, they had this ability.

Even though it is written "But the word is very near you, in your mouth and in your heart, that you may observe it" (Deuteronomy 30:14), you yourself, TomL, purged the Word of God from your heart, and it is written in the same passage (that you neglected to quote) that the LORD God will prosper the people "if you obey the LORD your God to keep His commandments and His statutes which are written in this book of the law, if you turn to the LORD your God with all your heart and soul" (Deuteronomy 30:10); however, the people failed because it is written "So they put away the foreign gods from among them and served the LORD; and He could bear the misery of Israel no longer" (Judges 10:16).

You ignored the point

Deuteronomy 30:11–14 (ESV) — 11 “For this commandment that I command you today is not too hard for you, neither is it far off. 12 It is not in heaven, that you should say, ‘Who will ascend to heaven for us and bring it to us, that we may hear it and do it?’ 13 Neither is it beyond the sea, that you should say, ‘Who will go over the sea for us and bring it to us, that we may hear it and do it?’ 14 But the word is very near you. It is in your mouth and in your heart, so that you can do it.
what part of you can do it did you fail to understand?

Consider Joshua 24:15-24 in relation. Judges 10:16 contains the first occurrence of "foreign gods" after Joshua 24:23, so there is no record of the people in attendance fulfilling Joshua's command of "Now therefore, put away the foreign gods which are in your midst" (Joshua 24:23), and non-performance of the command shows fruit contrary of their choice mentioned by Joshua - those people didn't "turn to the LORD your God with all your heart and soul" (Deuteronomy 30:10) at the time of Joshua.

You stated men had no ability to choose to serve God. The passage shows otherwise in the context which you ignored

Joshua 24:31 (ESV) — 31 Israel served the LORD all the days of Joshua, and all the days of the elders who outlived Joshua and had known all the work that the LORD did for Israel.


Once again ignoring the word of God to propagate your theology

 

[TomL]

Apparently, you failed to read that which proved your thoughts are in accord with the words of man but not the Word of God, so here you go. Perhaps you read but you are unable to perceive the Word of God.

YOU CONTINUE TO DELETE VERBATIM QUOTATIONS OF THE PRECIOUS WORD OF GOD proclaimed in post #3,161 to which you had replied was replete with the Word of God!

So, your heart relegated the Word of God to null and void as you literally delete John 15:16, John 15:19, John 6:29, John 3:21, John 3:3, Matthew 11:25, and John 13:34!

Even though it is written "But the word is very near you, in your mouth and in your heart, that you may observe it" (Deuteronomy 30:14), you yourself, TomL, purged the Word of God from your heart, and it is written in the same passage (that you neglected to quote) that the LORD God will prosper the people "if you obey the LORD your God to keep His commandments and His statutes which are written in this book of the law, if you turn to the LORD your God with all your heart and soul" (Deuteronomy 30:10); however, the people failed because it is written "So they put away the foreign gods from among them and served the LORD; and He could bear the misery of Israel no longer" (Judges 10:16).

Consider Joshua 24:15-24 in relation. Judges 10:16 contains the first occurrence of "foreign gods" after Joshua 24:23, so there is no record of the people in attendance fulfilling Joshua's command of "Now therefore, put away the foreign gods which are in your midst" (Joshua 24:23), and non-performance of the command shows fruit contrary of their choice mentioned by Joshua - those people didn't "turn to the LORD your God with all your heart and soul" (Deuteronomy 30:10) at the time of Joshua.

Behold, you wrote of the Word of God previously.



So, you call the Word of God falsehood because God caused me to quote John 15:16, John 15:19, John 6:29, John 3:21, John 3:3, Matthew 11:25, and John 13:34 - all of which you called falsehood, and no Christian calls the Christ's sayings falsehood.

No portion of Deuteronomy 30:11–19 mentions God imparting man the ability to choose toward God, unless you are using the faulty book of Free-willians 30:19 as shown in the following paragraph.

Let’s look at 2 of your quotations, there, TomL, which you preach God imparted man with the ability to choose God in order for your heart to nullify the Word of God recorded in John 15:16, John 15:19, John 6:29, John 3:21, John 3:3, Matthew 11:25, and John 13:34 -

The word of TomL		The Word of God
I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. So choose God in order that you may live since God gave you the ability to choose God, you and your descendants (TomL 30:19)		I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. So choose life in order that you may live, you and your descendants (Deuteronomy 30:19)

And all of your emboldened words are absent of "thus says the Lord", so your heart adulterates the Holy Scripture.

No portion of Joshua 24:15–24 mentions God imparting man the ability to choose toward God, unless you are using the faulty book of Free-willians 24:15 as shown in the following paragraph.

Your adulteration of the Holy Scripture in order to nullify the Word of God recorded in John 15:16, John 15:19, John 6:29, John 3:21, John 3:3, Matthew 11:25, and John 13:34 is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:

The tradition of man		The Word of God
If it is evil in your sight to choose to serve the LORD, choose for yourselves today whom you will serve: whether the gods which your fathers served which were beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you are living, or the LORD by the ability God gave you to choose the One True God; but as for me and my house, we choose to serve the LORD. (TomL 24:15)		If it is evil in your sight to serve the LORD, choose for yourselves today whom you will serve: whether the gods which your fathers served which were beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you are living; but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD. (Joshua 24:15)

so your heart preaches your sovereignty of man eliminating Christ's Sovereignty of God, and so go your adulterations of the Holy Scripture again and again and again.

The only way for free-willian philosophers to acheive free-will is for them to add to the Word of God, and it is written "do not add to His words or He will reprove you, and you will be proved a liar" (Proverbs 30:6).

We Christians sing Christ's Sovereignty of God song that God is so very Holy that we cannot approach this Loving King Jesus without being summoned and chosen by His Holiness; in contrast, the daringly self-willed (2 Peter 2:9-10) Free-willian Philosophers sing the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9) sour song about man choosing His Holiness:

The traditions of men		The Word of God
I chose Jesus, but Jesus didn't choose me (TomL 15:16)		you did not choose Me, but I chose you (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:16)
I chose Jesus so now Jesus must obey me to make me out of the world (TomL 15:19)		I chose you out of the world (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:19)
This is not the work of God but this is the work of man, that you believe in Him whom He has sent (TomL 6:29)		This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent (Lord Jesus Christ, John 6:29)
I chose to practice the Truth coming to the Light so that my works may be manifested as having been wrought in me (TomL 3:21)		he who practices the Truth comes to the Light, so that his works may be manifested as having been wrought in God (Lord Jesus Christ, John 3:21)
Truly, truly, I say to you, before one is born again he can see the Kingdom of God[ (TomL 3:3)		Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God (Lord Jesus Christ, John 3:3)
To your own praise, that you have revealed these things to yourselves for you are the wise and intelligent ones who cause yourselves to repent (TomL 11:25)		I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent and have revealed them to babes (Lord Jesus Christ, Matthew 11:25)
A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even according to your fleshly love, that you also love one another (TomL 13:34)		A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another (Lord Jesus Christ, John 13:34)

We Christians sing the sweet song of the power of God to the glory of God! The Word of God is beautiful - to God be all honor and glory and power and dominion forever and ever! Praise be to the Christ of us Christians.

You free-willians sing the sour song of the power of man to the glory of man!

Christ says "It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are Spirit and are Life" (John 6:63) as well as "He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day" (John 12:48).

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE CHRIST FOREVER!!!

You still ignore key points

sorry but you show no such thing

Posting random reference with a text or argument shows nothing

Deuteronomy 30:11–19 (LSB) — 11 “For this commandment which I am commanding you today is not too difficult for you, nor is it far from you. 12 “It is not in heaven, that you should say, ‘Who will go up to heaven for us and get it for us and make us hear it, that we may do it?’ 13 “Nor is it beyond the sea, that you should say, ‘Who will cross the sea for us and get it for us and make us hear it, that we may do it?’ 14 “But the word is very near you, in your mouth and in your heart, that you may do it. 15 “See, I have set before you today life and prosperity, and death and calamity; 16 in that I am commanding you today to love Yahweh your God, to walk in His ways, and to keep His commandments and His statutes and His judgments, that you may live and multiply, and that Yahweh your God may bless you in the land where you are entering to possess it. 17 “But if your heart turns away and you will not listen, but are drawn away and worship other gods and serve them, 18 I declare to you today that you shall surely perish. You will not prolong your days in the land where you are crossing the Jordan to enter and possess it. 19 “I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. So choose life in order that you may live, you and your seed,

Joshua 24:15–24 (LSB) — 15 “If it is evil in your sight to serve Yahweh, choose for yourselves today whom you will serve: whether the gods which your fathers served which were beyond the River or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you are living; but as for me and my house, we will serve Yahweh.” 16 And the people answered and said, “Far be it from us that we should forsake Yahweh to serve other gods; 17 for Yahweh our God is He who brought us and our fathers up out of the land of Egypt, from the house of slavery, and who did these great signs in our sight and kept us through all the way in which we went and among all the peoples through whose midst we passed. 18 “And Yahweh drove out from before us all the peoples, even the Amorites who lived in the land. We also will serve Yahweh, for He is our God.” 19 Then Joshua said to the people, “You will not be able to serve Yahweh, for He is a holy God. He is a jealous God; He will not forgive your transgression or your sins. 20 “If you forsake Yahweh and serve foreign gods, then He will turn and do you harm and consume you after He has done good to you.” 21 And the people said to Joshua, “No, but we will serve Yahweh.” 22 And Joshua said to the people, “You are witnesses against yourselves that you have chosen for yourselves Yahweh, to serve Him.” And they said, “We are witnesses.” 23 “So now, put away the foreign gods which are in your midst, and incline your hearts to Yahweh, the God of Israel.” 24 And the people said to Joshua, “We will serve Yahweh our God, and we will listen to His voice.”



Nope I call your bible denying blather a falsehood

You did nothing at all to show man lacked the capacity to make a choice to choose life and walk inb the ways of Yahweh

Deuteronomy 30:11–19 (LSB) — 11 “For this commandment which I am commanding you today is not too difficult for you, nor is it far from you. 12 “It is not in heaven, that you should say, ‘Who will go up to heaven for us and get it for us and make us hear it, that we may do it?’ 13 “Nor is it beyond the sea, that you should say, ‘Who will cross the sea for us and get it for us and make us hear it, that we may do it?’ 14 “But the word is very near you, in your mouth and in your heart, that you may do it. 15 “See, I have set before you today life and prosperity, and death and calamity; 16 in that I am commanding you today to love Yahweh your God, to walk in His ways, and to keep His commandments and His statutes and His judgments, that you may live and multiply, and that Yahweh your God may bless you in the land where you are entering to possess it. 17 “But if your heart turns away and you will not listen, but are drawn away and worship other gods and serve them, 18 I declare to you today that you shall surely perish. You will not prolong your days in the land where you are crossing the Jordan to enter and possess it. 19 “I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. So choose life in order that you may live, you and your seed,

that further from this passage Paul writes

Romans 10:6–17 (KJV 1900) — 6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above 7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.) 8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; 9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. 12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. 14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! 16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? 17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

you also did nothing at all to dispute man's ability to make a choice of which God he shall serve

Joshua 24:15–24 (LSB) — 15 “If it is evil in your sight to serve Yahweh, choose for yourselves today whom you will serve: whether the gods which your fathers served which were beyond the River or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you are living; but as for me and my house, we will serve Yahweh.” 16 And the people answered and said, “Far be it from us that we should forsake Yahweh to serve other gods; 17 for Yahweh our God is He who brought us and our fathers up out of the land of Egypt, from the house of slavery, and who did these great signs in our sight and kept us through all the way in which we went and among all the peoples through whose midst we passed. 18 “And Yahweh drove out from before us all the peoples, even the Amorites who lived in the land. We also will serve Yahweh, for He is our God.” 19 Then Joshua said to the people, “You will not be able to serve Yahweh, for He is a holy God. He is a jealous God; He will not forgive your transgression or your sins. 20 “If you forsake Yahweh and serve foreign gods, then He will turn and do you harm and consume you after He has done good to you.” 21 And the people said to Joshua, “No, but we will serve Yahweh.” 22 And Joshua said to the people, “You are witnesses against yourselves that you have chosen for yourselves Yahweh, to serve Him.” And they said, “We are witnesses.” 23 “So now, put away the foreign gods which are in your midst, and incline your hearts to Yahweh, the God of Israel.” 24 And the people said to Joshua, “We will serve Yahweh our God, and we will listen to His voice.”

You simply framed your comments to avoid the obvious mention of their ability to argue, it does not state how this ability was given

Ignoring the elephant in the house, they had this ability.

Even though it is written "But the word is very near you, in your mouth and in your heart, that you may observe it" (Deuteronomy 30:14), you yourself, TomL, purged the Word of God from your heart, and it is written in the same passage (that you neglected to quote) that the LORD God will prosper the people "if you obey the LORD your God to keep His commandments and His statutes which are written in this book of the law, if you turn to the LORD your God with all your heart and soul" (Deuteronomy 30:10); however, the people failed because it is written "So they put away the foreign gods from among them and served the LORD; and He could bear the misery of Israel no longer" (Judges 10:16).

You ignored the point

Deuteronomy 30:11–14 (ESV) — 11 “For this commandment that I command you today is not too hard for you, neither is it far off. 12 It is not in heaven, that you should say, ‘Who will ascend to heaven for us and bring it to us, that we may hear it and do it?’ 13 Neither is it beyond the sea, that you should say, ‘Who will go over the sea for us and bring it to us, that we may hear it and do it?’ 14 But the word is very near you. It is in your mouth and in your heart, so that you can do it.
what part of you can do it did you fail to understand?

Consider Joshua 24:15-24 in relation. Judges 10:16 contains the first occurrence of "foreign gods" after Joshua 24:23, so there is no record of the people in attendance fulfilling Joshua's command of "Now therefore, put away the foreign gods which are in your midst" (Joshua 24:23), and non-performance of the command shows fruit contrary of their choice mentioned by Joshua - those people didn't "turn to the LORD your God with all your heart and soul" (Deuteronomy 30:10) at the time of Joshua.

You stated men had no ability to choose to aserve God. The passage shows otherwise in the context which you ignored

Joshua 24:31 (ESV) — 31 Israel served the LORD all the days of Joshua, and all the days of the elders who outlived Joshua and had known all the work that the LORD did for Israel.


Once again ignoring the word of God to propagate your theology

I would like you to address the fact they chose to and did serve the Lord according to scripture, which you claimed they could not

 

[civic]

Yes @TomL we are witnessing random theology. I think I will coin a new term in Christendom

 

[TomL]

Why, thank you, TomL! Let's look at the damnable heresies of Free-willian Philosophers failure atonement of the Christ because free-willians include Judas Iscariot in "all men" within Titus 2:11 in order to extend into the fabricated free-will for man to choose Jesus.

Um there you go baring false witness again

You address the below.

The cumulative effect of your Free-willian Philosophy Christ failure atonement is shown below, and you still present no defense for your own interpretation.

Um you divert again and fail to address

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/an-article-on-free-will.1287/post-104181

Address the verses

Here is another for you

2 Peter 2:1 (KJV 1900) — 1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

where have you address it?

 

[TomL]

Yes @TomL we are witnessing random theology. I think I will coin a new term in Christendom

Yep

Kermos stated men had no ability to choose to serve God. The passage shows otherwise in the context which he ignores

Joshua 24:31 (ESV) — 31 Israel served the LORD all the days of Joshua, and all the days of the elders who outlived Joshua and had known all the work that the LORD did for Israel.


Once again he ignores the word of God to propagate his theology

 

[civic]

Yep

Kermos stated men had no ability to choose to serve God. The passage shows otherwise in the context which he ignores

Joshua 24:31 (ESV) — 31 Israel served the LORD all the days of Joshua, and all the days of the elders who outlived Joshua and had known all the work that the LORD did for Israel.


Once again he ignores the word of God to propagate his theology

yes the theology known as random theology-isolating passages to support ones own presuppositions.

 

[TomL]

yes the theology known as random theology-isolating passages to support ones own presuppositions.

We have at least two very active partakers

 

[Kermos]

sorry once again you assume atonement of itself saves

But not even a Calvinist such as WGT Shedd would argue atonement saves without faith

It may be asked: If atonement naturally and necessarily cancels guilt, why does not the vicarious atonement of Christ save all men indiscriminately, as the universalist contends? The substituted suffering of Christ being infinite is equal in value to the personal suffering of all mankind; why then are not all men upon the same footing and in the class of the saved, by virtue of it? The answer is because it is a natural impossibility. Vicarious atonement without faith in it is powerless to save. It is not the making of this atonement, but the trusting in it, that saves the sinner: “By faith are you saved” (Eph. 2:8); “he that believes shall be saved” (Mark 16:16). The making of this atonement merely satisfies the legal claims, and this is all that it does. If it were made but never imputed and appropriated, it would result in no salvation. A substituted satisfaction of justice without an act of trust in it would be useless to sinners. It is as naturally impossible that Christ’s death should save from punishment one who does not confide in it as that a loaf of bread should save from starvation a man who does not eat it. The assertion that because the atonement of Christ is sufficient for all men therefore no men are lost is as absurd as the assertion that because the grain produced in the year 1880 was sufficient to support the life of all men on the globe therefore no men died of starvation during that year. The mere fact that Jesus Christ made satisfaction for human sin, alone and of itself, will save no soul. Christ, conceivably, might have died precisely as he did and his death have been just as valuable for expiatory purposes as it is, but if his death had not been followed with the work of the Holy Spirit and the act of faith on the part of individual men, he would have died in vain.[1]

---

[1] William Greenough Thayer Shedd, Dogmatic Theology, ed. Alan W. Gomes, 3rd ed. (Phillipsburg, NJ: P & R Pub., 2003), 726.

and scripture does not support your view

John 3:14–18 (ESV) — 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in him may have eternal life. 16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.

Christ was given to the object of God's love - the world

with the provision whoever in the world believes in him will have everlasting life

It is faith in the atonement which saves

Reference 1john 2:2 and your failure to address this


Sorry there is nothing at all in verse that limits the whole world to people God causes to believe in Jesus

you are posting your theology not scripture

No writer uses the same term whole world in opposite senses if he wishes to be understood

It's simply not rational nor are your views.


Aside from which believers were already seen in the first half of the verse


1 John 2:2 (KJV 1900) — 2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

so whole world must include others than believers.

you are unwilling to believe scripture as it appears and twist it to suit your preferences

'


You deny the words of Christ

Luke 22:14–21 (KJV 1900) — 14 And when the hour was come, he sat down, and the twelve apostles with him. 15 And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer: 16 For I say unto you, I will not any more eat thereof, until it be fulfilled in the kingdom of God. 17 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and said, Take this, and divide it among yourselves: 18 For I say unto you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, until the kingdom of God shall come. 19 And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me. 20 Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you. 21 But, behold, the hand of him that betrayeth me is with me on the table.

see also

2 Peter 2:1 (KJV 1900) — 1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

Even false prophets had been bought by Christ

I recall that you accused me of conflating atonement with free-will, and you proceed to do the very thimg that you held against me; moreover, you are using your free-willian "I chose Jesus" as the driving factor for the atonement which emphasizes the free-willian philosophy of man causing himself to be born of God, just as God caused me to explain to you in post #799. A hypocrite says do as I say but not as I do, and Lord Jesus has a terrifying declaration about hypocrites "woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites" (Matthew 23:13).

The Truth (John 14:6) is that faith/belief inside of us Christians is caused by Lord and God Jesus Christ, for the Christ of us Christians says “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29).

And Paul is in accord with Jesus’ words for Paul wrote to the Ephesians “by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, [it is] the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His work” (Ephesians 2:8-10).

And Peter is in accord with Jesus’ words for Peter declared “God, who knows the heart, testified to them giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us; and He made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith” (Acts 15:8-9).

So, clearly, Jesus’ words in John 6:29 state for us believers to believe in Jesus whom the Father has sent is exclusively by/of/through God.

But you fail to believe Lord Jesus Christ because you illegally convert the Christ's God glorifying phrase "the work of God" into your heart's free-willian glorifying phrase "the work of man" as shown here:

The traditions of men		The Word of God
This is not the work of God but this is the work of man, that you believe in Him whom He has sent (TomL 6:29)		This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent (Lord Jesus Christ, John 6:29)

Now, let's look at that which you attempted to obfuscate instead of addressing about your belief that Judas Iscariot is a part of "all men" in Titus 2:11 and the corresponding "the whole world" in 1 John 2:2.

"I was sent only to those being lost sheep of the house of Israel" (Matthew 15:24), and God causes some who are Gentiles to be grafted into Israel (Romans 11:11-36). These are the whole world in 1 John 2:2 - not Judas Iscariot as you believe because your belief results in a failure atonement for Christ as detailed below.

Judas Iscariot is included in "the whole world" (1 John 2:2) according to your Free-willian Philosophy, yet, in Truth (John 14:6), Judas is not a part of "the whole world" in John the Apostle's word, here, and John exclusively includes people who are Christians at departure from this Earth, here. Your word is wrong side while the Apostle's word is right side:

Wrong Side		Right Side
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world including Judas Iscariot the son of destruction, so Christ's atoning sacrifice fails for Judas Iscariot. (1 TomL 2:2)		He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world. (1 John 2:2)

So "the whole world" in 1 John 2:2 includes exclusively the people that God causes to believe in Jesus whom the Father has sent (John 6:29) before those people die, so "the whole world" in 1 John 2:2 has a different meaning than "the whole world" in 1 John 5:19, but your heart destroys context for "the whole world", and so go your adulterations of the precious Holy Scripture again and again and again.

TomL, you include yourself in "the whole world" (1 John 5:19) according to your Free-willian Philosophy, yet, in Truth (John 14:6), no Christian is a part of "the whole world" in John the Apostle's word, here. Your word is on the left side while the Apostolic testimony is on the right side:

The traditions of men		Apostolic Testimony
We know that no one who is born of God sins; but He who was born of God keeps him, and the evil one does not touch him. We know that we are of God, and that the whole world, including TomL, lies in the evil one. (1 TomL 5:18-19)		We know that no one who is born of God sins; but He who was born of God keeps him, and the evil one does not touch him. We know that we are of God, and that the whole world lies in the evil one. (1 John 5:18-19)

So "the whole world" in 1 John 5:19 includes exclusively the people that the evil one touches (1 John 5:19), yet Christ guards Christians keeping us untouched by the evil one (1 John 5:18), but your heart destroys context for "the whole world", and so go your adulterations of the precious Holy Scripture again and again and again.

Jesus Christ excepts Judas Iscariot from inclusion in the New Covenant of Christ's Blood in Luke 22:21, so you remain in anti-truth by claiming Judas is included in Christ's atonement.

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE KEEPER OF MY HEART, LORD JESUS CHRIST!!!

 

[TomL]

I recall that you accused me of conflating atonement with free-will, and you proceed to do the very thimg that you held against me; moreover, you are using your free-willian "I chose Jesus" as the driving factor for the atonement which emphasizes the free-willian philosophy of man causing himself to be born of God, just as God caused me to explain to you in post #799. A hypocrite says do as I say but not as I do, and Lord Jesus has a terrifying declaration about hypocrites "woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites" (Matthew 23:13).

Nope Instead I noted you imagine atonement of itself without faith saves

see

sorry once again you assume atonement of itself saves

But not even a Calvinist such as WGT Shedd would argue atonement saves without faith

It may be asked: If atonement naturally and necessarily cancels guilt, why does not the vicarious atonement of Christ save all men indiscriminately, as the universalist contends? The substituted suffering of Christ being infinite is equal in value to the personal suffering of all mankind; why then are not all men upon the same footing and in the class of the saved, by virtue of it? The answer is because it is a natural impossibility. Vicarious atonement without faith in it is powerless to save. It is not the making of this atonement, but the trusting in it, that saves the sinner: “By faith are you saved” (Eph. 2:8); “he that believes shall be saved” (Mark 16:16). The making of this atonement merely satisfies the legal claims, and this is all that it does. If it were made but never imputed and appropriated, it would result in no salvation. A substituted satisfaction of justice without an act of trust in it would be useless to sinners. It is as naturally impossible that Christ’s death should save from punishment one who does not confide in it as that a loaf of bread should save from starvation a man who does not eat it. The assertion that because the atonement of Christ is sufficient for all men therefore no men are lost is as absurd as the assertion that because the grain produced in the year 1880 was sufficient to support the life of all men on the globe therefore no men died of starvation during that year. The mere fact that Jesus Christ made satisfaction for human sin, alone and of itself, will save no soul. Christ, conceivably, might have died precisely as he did and his death have been just as valuable for expiatory purposes as it is, but if his death had not been followed with the work of the Holy Spirit and the act of faith on the part of individual men, he would have died in vain.[1]

---

[1] William Greenough Thayer Shedd, Dogmatic Theology, ed. Alan W. Gomes, 3rd ed. (Phillipsburg, NJ: P & R Pub., 2003), 726.

and scripture does not support your view

John 3:14–18 (ESV) — 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in him may have eternal life. 16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.

Christ was given to the object of God's love - the world

with the provision whoever in the world believes in him will have everlasting life

It is faith in the atonement which saves

Reference 1john 2:2 and your failure to address this


Sorry there is nothing at all in verse that limits the whole world to people God causes to believe in Jesus

you are posting your theology not scripture

No writer uses the same term whole world in opposite senses if he wishes to be understood

It's simply not rational nor are your views.


Aside from which believers were already seen in the first half of the verse


1 John 2:2 (KJV 1900) — 2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

so whole world must include others than believers.

you are unwilling to believe scripture as it appears and twist it to suit your preferences

'


You deny the words of Christ

Luke 22:14–21 (KJV 1900) — 14 And when the hour was come, he sat down, and the twelve apostles with him. 15 And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer: 16 For I say unto you, I will not any more eat thereof, until it be fulfilled in the kingdom of God. 17 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and said, Take this, and divide it among yourselves: 18 For I say unto you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, until the kingdom of God shall come. 19 And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me. 20 Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you. 21 But, behold, the hand of him that betrayeth me is with me on the table.

see also

2 Peter 2:1 (KJV 1900) — 1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

Even false prophets had been bought by Christ

 

[civic]

Nope Instead I noted you imagine atonement of itself without faith saves

see

yes like his false gospel we can see his view of the atonement is also false.

 

[TomL]

yes like his false gospel we can see his view of the atonement is also false.

Yep. he is preaching another gospel

 

[Kermos]

It's your twisting of scripture which is nauseating


address this instead of simply repeating yourself over and over

sorry but you show no such thing

Posting random reference with a text or argument shows nothing

Deuteronomy 30:11–19 (LSB) — 11 “For this commandment which I am commanding you today is not too difficult for you, nor is it far from you. 12 “It is not in heaven, that you should say, ‘Who will go up to heaven for us and get it for us and make us hear it, that we may do it?’ 13 “Nor is it beyond the sea, that you should say, ‘Who will cross the sea for us and get it for us and make us hear it, that we may do it?’ 14 “But the word is very near you, in your mouth and in your heart, that you may do it. 15 “See, I have set before you today life and prosperity, and death and calamity; 16 in that I am commanding you today to love Yahweh your God, to walk in His ways, and to keep His commandments and His statutes and His judgments, that you may live and multiply, and that Yahweh your God may bless you in the land where you are entering to possess it. 17 “But if your heart turns away and you will not listen, but are drawn away and worship other gods and serve them, 18 I declare to you today that you shall surely perish. You will not prolong your days in the land where you are crossing the Jordan to enter and possess it. 19 “I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. So choose life in order that you may live, you and your seed,

Joshua 24:15–24 (LSB) — 15 “If it is evil in your sight to serve Yahweh, choose for yourselves today whom you will serve: whether the gods which your fathers served which were beyond the River or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you are living; but as for me and my house, we will serve Yahweh.” 16 And the people answered and said, “Far be it from us that we should forsake Yahweh to serve other gods; 17 for Yahweh our God is He who brought us and our fathers up out of the land of Egypt, from the house of slavery, and who did these great signs in our sight and kept us through all the way in which we went and among all the peoples through whose midst we passed. 18 “And Yahweh drove out from before us all the peoples, even the Amorites who lived in the land. We also will serve Yahweh, for He is our God.” 19 Then Joshua said to the people, “You will not be able to serve Yahweh, for He is a holy God. He is a jealous God; He will not forgive your transgression or your sins. 20 “If you forsake Yahweh and serve foreign gods, then He will turn and do you harm and consume you after He has done good to you.” 21 And the people said to Joshua, “No, but we will serve Yahweh.” 22 And Joshua said to the people, “You are witnesses against yourselves that you have chosen for yourselves Yahweh, to serve Him.” And they said, “We are witnesses.” 23 “So now, put away the foreign gods which are in your midst, and incline your hearts to Yahweh, the God of Israel.” 24 And the people said to Joshua, “We will serve Yahweh our God, and we will listen to His voice.”



Nope I call your bible denying blather a falsehood

You did nothing at all to show man lacked the capacity to make a choice to choose life and walk inb the ways of Yahweh

Deuteronomy 30:11–19 (LSB) — 11 “For this commandment which I am commanding you today is not too difficult for you, nor is it far from you. 12 “It is not in heaven, that you should say, ‘Who will go up to heaven for us and get it for us and make us hear it, that we may do it?’ 13 “Nor is it beyond the sea, that you should say, ‘Who will cross the sea for us and get it for us and make us hear it, that we may do it?’ 14 “But the word is very near you, in your mouth and in your heart, that you may do it. 15 “See, I have set before you today life and prosperity, and death and calamity; 16 in that I am commanding you today to love Yahweh your God, to walk in His ways, and to keep His commandments and His statutes and His judgments, that you may live and multiply, and that Yahweh your God may bless you in the land where you are entering to possess it. 17 “But if your heart turns away and you will not listen, but are drawn away and worship other gods and serve them, 18 I declare to you today that you shall surely perish. You will not prolong your days in the land where you are crossing the Jordan to enter and possess it. 19 “I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. So choose life in order that you may live, you and your seed,

that further from this passage Paul writes

Romans 10:6–17 (KJV 1900) — 6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above 7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.) 8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; 9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. 12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. 14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! 16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? 17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

you also did nothing at all to dispute man's ability to make a choice of which God he shall serve

Joshua 24:15–24 (LSB) — 15 “If it is evil in your sight to serve Yahweh, choose for yourselves today whom you will serve: whether the gods which your fathers served which were beyond the River or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you are living; but as for me and my house, we will serve Yahweh.” 16 And the people answered and said, “Far be it from us that we should forsake Yahweh to serve other gods; 17 for Yahweh our God is He who brought us and our fathers up out of the land of Egypt, from the house of slavery, and who did these great signs in our sight and kept us through all the way in which we went and among all the peoples through whose midst we passed. 18 “And Yahweh drove out from before us all the peoples, even the Amorites who lived in the land. We also will serve Yahweh, for He is our God.” 19 Then Joshua said to the people, “You will not be able to serve Yahweh, for He is a holy God. He is a jealous God; He will not forgive your transgression or your sins. 20 “If you forsake Yahweh and serve foreign gods, then He will turn and do you harm and consume you after He has done good to you.” 21 And the people said to Joshua, “No, but we will serve Yahweh.” 22 And Joshua said to the people, “You are witnesses against yourselves that you have chosen for yourselves Yahweh, to serve Him.” And they said, “We are witnesses.” 23 “So now, put away the foreign gods which are in your midst, and incline your hearts to Yahweh, the God of Israel.” 24 And the people said to Joshua, “We will serve Yahweh our God, and we will listen to His voice.”

You simply framed your comments to avoid the obvious mention of their ability to argue, it does not state how this ability was given

Ignoring the elephant in the house, they had this ability.




You ignored the point

Deuteronomy 30:11–14 (ESV) — 11 “For this commandment that I command you today is not too hard for you, neither is it far off. 12 It is not in heaven, that you should say, ‘Who will ascend to heaven for us and bring it to us, that we may hear it and do it?’ 13 Neither is it beyond the sea, that you should say, ‘Who will go over the sea for us and bring it to us, that we may hear it and do it?’ 14 But the word is very near you. It is in your mouth and in your heart, so that you can do it.
what part of you can do it did you fail to understand?






You stated men had no ability to choose to serve God. The passage shows otherwise in the context which you ignored

Joshua 24:31 (ESV) — 31 Israel served the LORD all the days of Joshua, and all the days of the elders who outlived Joshua and had known all the work that the LORD did for Israel.


Once again ignoring the word of God to propagate your theology

Let's look at how you two apply the nauseous concept.

Repeat ad nasaeum

Seems that is all Kermos has

The following Word of God is that which the both of you call nauseous! No Christian calls the Word of God nauseating.

The gracious Benefactor of us Christians exclusively produces

1. divine choice of we beneficiaries unto salvation, for the Christ of us Christians says “you did not choose Me, but I chose you” (John 15:16) and “I chose you out of the world” (John 15:19)
   AND, Paul is in accord with Jesus’ words for he wrote to the Ephesians “Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly [places] in Christ, just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him in love” (Ephesians 1:3-4)
   SO, clearly, Jesus’ words in John 15:16 and John 15:19 state God exclusively chooses us believers by/of/through God
2. beneficiaries’ faith/belief in Lord Jesus, for the Christ of us Christians says (see also a word about belief/faith (Greek πίστις pistis) and believe (Greek πιστεύω pisteuó))
   “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29)
   AND Paul is in accord with Jesus’ words for Paul wrote to the Ephesians “by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, [it is] the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His work” (Ephesians 2:8-10)
   AND Peter is in accord with Jesus’ words for Peter declared “God, who knows the heart, testified to them giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us; and He made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith” (Acts 15:8-9)
   SO, clearly, Jesus’ words in John 6:29 state for us believers to believe in Jesus whom the Father has sent is exclusively by/of/through God
3. beneficiaries’ fruit of the Spirit/righteous actions/good works, for the Christ of us Christians says
   “he who practices the Truth comes to the Light, so that his works may be manifested as having been wrought in God” (John 3:21)
   AND Paul is in accord with Jesus’ words for he wrote to the Philippians “being filled with the fruit of righteousness that [is] by Jesus Christ, to the glory and praise of God” (Philippians 1:11)
   SO, clearly, Jesus’ words in John 3:21 state fruit in we believers is exclusively by/of/through God
4. beneficiaries’ birth by the Holy Spirit, for the Christ of us Christians says "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God" (John 3:3) as well as “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit” (John 3:5-8)
   AND Peter is in accord with Jesus’ words for he wrote to persons residing as aliens “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead” (1 Peter 1:3)
   SO, clearly, Jesus’ words in John 3:5-8 state we believers being born again is exclusively by/of/through God
5. beneficiaries’ repent by God’s working, for the Christ of us Christians says
   “I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent and have revealed them to babes” (Matthew 11:25)
   AND the apostles and elders are in accord with Jesus’ words with thier saying, “Well then, God has given to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life” (Acts 11:18)
   SO, clearly, Jesus’ words in Matthew 11:25 state that God exclusively causes man to think differently after an encounter with God (repent means to think differently afterward)
6. beneficiaries’ love by God’s working, for the Christ of us Christians says
   “A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another” (John 13:34)
   AND John is in accord with Jesus’ words for he wrote “Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God” (1 John 4:7, see the phrase “love is from God” meaning God is the source of true love)
   AND John expands with his writing of “God is Love, and the one who abides in Love abides in God, and God abides in him” (1 John 4:16, see the phrase “one who abides in Love” is equivocated with “one who abides” “in God” which extends from God’s exclusivity with “God is Love”)
   SO, clearly, Jesus’ words in John 13:34 states that the love, true love (John 3:33), the very righteous love, the Godly love within us children of God, this love is exclusively by/of/through God

And here we have the Truth (John 14:6), the love of Christ controls us believers (2 Corinthians 5:14)!

No Word of God you cite states man was imparted a free-will to choose toward God, but here is the Word of God which clearly states man does not choose God to any degree!

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE REVEALER OF TRUTH, LORD JESUS CHRIST!!!

 

[TomL]

Let's look at how you two apply the nauseous concept.



The following Word of God is that which the both of you call nauseous! No Christian calls the Word of God nauseating.

The gracious Benefactor of us Christians exclusively produces

1. divine choice of we beneficiaries unto salvation, for the Christ of us Christians says “you did not choose Me, but I chose you” (John 15:16) and “I chose you out of the world” (John 15:19)
   AND, Paul is in accord with Jesus’ words for he wrote to the Ephesians “Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly [places] in Christ, just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him in love” (Ephesians 1:3-4)
   SO, clearly, Jesus’ words in John 15:16 and John 15:19 state God exclusively chooses us believers by/of/through God
2. beneficiaries’ faith/belief in Lord Jesus, for the Christ of us Christians says (see also a word about belief/faith (Greek πίστις pistis) and believe (Greek πιστεύω pisteuó))
   “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29)
   AND Paul is in accord with Jesus’ words for Paul wrote to the Ephesians “by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, [it is] the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His work” (Ephesians 2:8-10)
   AND Peter is in accord with Jesus’ words for Peter declared “God, who knows the heart, testified to them giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us; and He made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith” (Acts 15:8-9)
   SO, clearly, Jesus’ words in John 6:29 state for us believers to believe in Jesus whom the Father has sent is exclusively by/of/through God
3. beneficiaries’ fruit of the Spirit/righteous actions/good works, for the Christ of us Christians says
   “he who practices the Truth comes to the Light, so that his works may be manifested as having been wrought in God” (John 3:21)
   AND Paul is in accord with Jesus’ words for he wrote to the Philippians “being filled with the fruit of righteousness that [is] by Jesus Christ, to the glory and praise of God” (Philippians 1:11)
   SO, clearly, Jesus’ words in John 3:21 state fruit in we believers is exclusively by/of/through God
4. beneficiaries’ birth by the Holy Spirit, for the Christ of us Christians says "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God" (John 3:3) as well as “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit” (John 3:5-8)
   AND Peter is in accord with Jesus’ words for he wrote to persons residing as aliens “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead” (1 Peter 1:3)
   SO, clearly, Jesus’ words in John 3:5-8 state we believers being born again is exclusively by/of/through God
5. beneficiaries’ repent by God’s working, for the Christ of us Christians says
   “I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent and have revealed them to babes” (Matthew 11:25)
   AND the apostles and elders are in accord with Jesus’ words with thier saying, “Well then, God has given to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life” (Acts 11:18)
   SO, clearly, Jesus’ words in Matthew 11:25 state that God exclusively causes man to think differently after an encounter with God (repent means to think differently afterward)
6. beneficiaries’ love by God’s working, for the Christ of us Christians says
   “A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another” (John 13:34)
   AND John is in accord with Jesus’ words for he wrote “Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God” (1 John 4:7, see the phrase “love is from God” meaning God is the source of true love)
   AND John expands with his writing of “God is Love, and the one who abides in Love abides in God, and God abides in him” (1 John 4:16, see the phrase “one who abides in Love” is equivocated with “one who abides” “in God” which extends from God’s exclusivity with “God is Love”)
   SO, clearly, Jesus’ words in John 13:34 states that the love, true love (John 3:33), the very righteous love, the Godly love within us children of God, this love is exclusively by/of/through God

And here we have the Truth (John 14:6), the love of Christ controls us believers (2 Corinthians 5:14)!

No Word of God you cite states man was imparted a free-will to choose toward God, but here is the Word of God which clearly states man does not choose God to any degree!

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE REVEALER OF TRUTH, LORD JESUS CHRIST!!!

All repeat stuff which ignores rebuttal and is simply repeated over and over

Viz

John 6:29


John 6:27 (ESV) — 27 Do not work for the food that perishes, but for the food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you. For on him God the Father has set his seal.”

Verse 28 defines for us the works of God

John 6:28 (NASB 2020) — 28 Therefore they said to Him, “What are we to do, so that we may accomplish the works of God?”

as what are we to do'
You posted nothing to prove your point, simply asserting your claim

In the meantime you ignored contextual exegesis

Jesus told them they must work

3rd the Jews clearly understood it was they who were to believe

John 6:30 (KJV 1900) — 30 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?

fourth Christ affirmed there is something they must do never correcting them

John 6:32–40 (ESV) — 32 Jesus then said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, it was not Moses who gave you the bread from heaven, but my Father gives you the true bread from heaven. 33 For the bread of God is he who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.” 34 They said to him, “Sir, give us this bread always.” 35 Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst.

You have isolated verse 29 from its context and assumed its meaning

you ignored the commentary of your Calvinist peers

. What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? That is, such things as God will approve. This was the earnest inquiry of men who were seeking to be saved. They had crossed the Sea of Tiberias to seek him; they supposed him to be the Messiah, and they sincerely desired to be taught the way of life; yet it is observable that they expected to find that way as other sinners commonly do—by their works. The idea of doing something to merit salvation is one of the last that the sinner ever surrenders.
Albert Barnes, Notes on the New Testament: Luke & John (ed. Robert Frew; London: Blackie & Son, 1884–1885), 244.

John Calvin: “People who infer from this passage that faith is God’s gift are mistaken, for Christ does not show here what God produces in us, but what God wants and requires from us.” (The Crossway Classic Commentaries: John; Crossway Books; Wheaton, IL; 1994, p.393)

Verse 29
5. Men torment themselves in vain when they try to please God without faith.
g. That is, this is the work that God requires, that you believe in me, and therefore he calls them back to faith.


Geneva Bible Notes (1599). (Bellingham, WA: Logos Bible Software, 2003), Jn 6:28–29.



Jesus sets them straight: The work of God—i.e. what God requires—is faith. This is not faith in the abstract, an existential trust without a coherent object. Rather, they must believe in the one [God] has sent[1] Pillar New Tetament commentary D.A. Carson

John_6:28-29. Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, —

The chief work, the greatest work which you can do. Spurgeon commentary

---

​

[1] D. A. Carson, The Gospel according to John (The Pillar New Testament Commentary; Leicester, England; Grand Rapids, MI: Inter-Varsity Press; W.B. Eerdmans, 1991), 285.


The work of Greek exegetes

Believe. Faith is put as a moral act or work. The work of God is to believe. Faith includes all the works which God requires. The Jews’ question contemplates numerous works. Jesus’ answer directs them to one work. Canon Westcott justly observes that “this simple formula contains the complete solution of the relation of faith and works.”11 Marvin Richardson Vincent, Word Studies in the New Testament (vol. 2; New York: Charles Scribner’s Sons, 1887), 148–149.

The meaning is not,—that faith is wrought in us by God, is the work of God; but that the truest way of working the work of God is to believe on Him whom He hath sent.11 Henry Alford, Alford’s Greek Testament: An Exegetical and Critical Commentary (vol. 1; Grand Rapids, MI: Guardian Press, 1976), 761.
Messianic work.

28. τί ποιῶμεν …; What must we do (v. 5) that we may work? Perhaps they understood Him to mean that they must earn what they desire; certainly they see that Christ’s words have a moral meaning; they must do the works required by God. But how?
29. τὸ ἔργον. They probably thought of works of the law, tithes, sacrifices, &c. He tells them of one work, one moral act, from which all the rest derive their value, continuous belief (πιστεύητε, not πιστεύσητε) in Him whom God has sent. Comp. Acts 16:31. On ἵνα and ἀπέστειλεν see on 1:8, 33, 4:47, 17:3.1
1 A. Plummer, The Gospel according to S. John (Cambridge Greek Testament for Schools and Colleges; Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1896), 155.

rather than deal with

Acts 16:30–31 (KJV 1900) — 30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? 31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Believe is the answer to what must i do

Not the nothing "God will cause you to believe if you are among the elect" of your theology

You simply asserted your view

John 15:16

Again Christs choice of his apostles

His disciples were given to him by the Father.

John 17:6–12 (NASB 2020) — 6 “I have revealed Your name to the men whom You gave Me out of the world; they were Yours and You gave them to Me, and they have followed Your word.

From them he chose 12 to be apostles

Luke 6:13–16 (ESV) — 13 And when day came, he called his disciples and chose from them twelve, whom he named apostles: 14 Simon, whom he named Peter, and Andrew his brother, and James and John, and Philip, and Bartholomew, 15 and Matthew, and Thomas, and James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon who was called the Zealot, 16 and Judas the son of James, and Judas Iscariot, who became a traitor.

John 6:70 (ESV) — 70 Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the twelve? And yet one of you is a devil.”

John 13:18 (UASV) — 18 I do not speak of all of you. I know the ones I have chosen; but it is that the Scripture may be fulfilled, ‘He who eats My bread has lifted up his heel against Me.’

clearly Christ chose his apostles

Ye have not chosen me. The word here translated chosen is that from which is derived the word elect, and means the same thing. It is frequently thus translated, Mar. 13:20; Mat. 24:22, 24, 31; Col. 3:12. It refers here, doubtless, to his choosing or electing them to be apostles. He says that it was not because they had chosen him to be their teacher and guide, but because he had designated them to be his apostles. See Jn. 6:70; also Mat. 4:18–22.11 Albert Barnes, Notes on the New Testament: Luke & John (ed. Robert Frew; London: Blackie & Son, 1884–1885), 341.

consider the various choices here

Matthew 22:1–14 (ESV) — 1 And again Jesus spoke to them in parables, saying, 2 “The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a king who gave a wedding feast for his son, 3 and sent his servants to call those who were invited to the wedding feast, but they would not come. 4 Again he sent other servants, saying, ‘Tell those who are invited, “See, I have prepared my dinner, my oxen and my fat calves have been slaughtered, and everything is ready. Come to the wedding feast.” ’ 5 But they paid no attention and went off, one to his farm, another to his business, 6 while the rest seized his servants, treated them shamefully, and killed them. 7 The king was angry, and he sent his troops and destroyed those murderers and burned their city. 8 Then he said to his servants, ‘The wedding feast is ready, but those invited were not worthy. 9 Go therefore to the main roads and invite to the wedding feast as many as you find.’ 10 And those servants went out into the roads and gathered all whom they found, both bad and good. So the wedding hall was filled with guests. 11 “But when the king came in to look at the guests, he saw there a man who had no wedding garment. 12 And he said to him, ‘Friend, how did you get in here without a wedding garment?’ And he was speechless. 13 Then the king said to the attendants, ‘Bind him hand and foot and cast him into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’ 14 For many are called, but few are chosen.”


Think of how many times passages like John 15:16 (“You did not choose me; I chose you…”) are used as proof texts for the Calvinistic belief of individual election to salvation when clearly Jesus is speaking to His servants who are being prepared to take the invitation to the rest of the world. They are using Divine Choice #1 as proof for their belief about Divine Choice #3.



Divine Choice #1: The choice of His servants, who were given the task of sending out the invitation.

Divine Choice #2: The choice to send the invitation first to His own and then to all others.

Divine Choice #3: The choice to allow only those clothed in proper wedding garments to enter the feast.

In John 15:16 we have the choice of the apostles

Ye have not chosen me. The word here translated chosen is that from which is derived the word elect, and means the same thing. It is frequently thus translated, Mar. 13:20; Mat. 24:22, 24, 31; Col. 3:12. It refers here, doubtless, to his choosing or electing them to be apostles. He says that it was not because they had chosen him to be their teacher and guide, but because he had designated them to be his apostles. See Jn. 6:70; also Mat. 4:18–22.11 Albert Barnes, Notes on the New Testament: Luke & John (ed. Robert Frew; London: Blackie & Son, 1884–1885), 341.



But I chose you (ἀλλʼ ἐγω ἐξελεξαμην ὑμας [all’ egō exelexamēn humas]). First aorist middle indicative of ἐκλεγω [eklegō]. See this same verb and tense used for the choice of the disciples by Christ (6:70; 13:18; 15:19). Jesus recognizes his own responsibility in the choice after a night of prayer (Luke 6:13).11 A.T. Robertson, Word Pictures in the New Testament (Nashville, TN: Broadman Press, 1933), Jn 15:16.



12 In these days he went out to the mountain to pray, and all night he continued in prayer to God. 13 And when day came, he called his disciples and chose from them twelve, whom he named apostles: 14 Simon, whom he named Peter, and Andrew his brother, and James and John, and Philip, and Bartholomew, 15 and Matthew, and Thomas, and James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon who was called the Zealot, 16 and Judas the son of James, and Judas Iscariot, who became a traitor11 The Holy Bible: English Standard Version (Wheaton, IL: Crossway Bibles, 2016), Lk 6:12–16.



True, the subject now in hand is not the ordinary election of believers, by which they are adopted to be the children of God, but that special election, by which he set apart his disciples to the office of preaching the Gospel11 John Calvin and William Pringle, Commentary on the Gospel according to John (vol. 2; Bellingham, WA: Logos Bible Software, 2010), 119.



16. οὐχ ὑμεῖς. Not ye chose Me, but I chose you. Ὑμεῖς and ἐγώ are emphatic. Ἐκλέγειν refers to their election to be Apostles (6:70, 13:18; Acts 1:2); therefore the aorist as referring to a definite act in the past should be preserved. So also ἔθηκα, I appointed you, i. e. assigned you to a definite post, as in 2 Tim. 1:11; Heb. 1:2. This is better than ‘I ordained,’ as A. V. here and 1 Tim. 2:7, ‘ordain’ having become a technical term in ecclesiastical language. Comp. Acts 13:47, 20:28; 1 Cor. 12:28. The repetition of ὑμεῖς throughout the verse emphasizes the personal responsibility of the Apostles.11 A. Plummer, The Gospel according to S. John (Cambridge Greek Testament for Schools and Colleges; Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1896), 286.



In John 15:16, Jesus is not talking about choosing people to salvation, nor is he speaking generally of believers. Rather, he is talking specifically of picking his apostles and preparing them for their ministry, all of which Jesus accomplished during his earthly ministry. There is nothing here about selecting people for salvation before creation.



Smelley, Hutson. Deconstructing Calvinism: A Biblical Analysis and Refutation (p. 184). Hutson Smelley.

 

[civic]

All repeat stuff which ignores rebuttal and is simply repeated over and over

Viz

John 6:29


John 6:27 (ESV) — 27 Do not work for the food that perishes, but for the food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you. For on him God the Father has set his seal.”

Verse 28 defines for us the works of God

John 6:28 (NASB 2020) — 28 Therefore they said to Him, “What are we to do, so that we may accomplish the works of God?”

as what are we to do'
You posted nothing to prove your point, simply asserting your claim

In the meantime you ignored contextual exegesis

Jesus told them they must work

3rd the Jews clearly understood it was they who were to believe

John 6:30 (KJV 1900) — 30 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?

fourth Christ affirmed there is something they must do never correcting them

John 6:32–40 (ESV) — 32 Jesus then said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, it was not Moses who gave you the bread from heaven, but my Father gives you the true bread from heaven. 33 For the bread of God is he who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.” 34 They said to him, “Sir, give us this bread always.” 35 Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst.

You have isolated verse 29 from its context and assumed its meaning

you ignored the commentary of your Calvinist peers

. What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? That is, such things as God will approve. This was the earnest inquiry of men who were seeking to be saved. They had crossed the Sea of Tiberias to seek him; they supposed him to be the Messiah, and they sincerely desired to be taught the way of life; yet it is observable that they expected to find that way as other sinners commonly do—by their works. The idea of doing something to merit salvation is one of the last that the sinner ever surrenders.
Albert Barnes, Notes on the New Testament: Luke & John (ed. Robert Frew; London: Blackie & Son, 1884–1885), 244.

John Calvin: “People who infer from this passage that faith is God’s gift are mistaken, for Christ does not show here what God produces in us, but what God wants and requires from us.” (The Crossway Classic Commentaries: John; Crossway Books; Wheaton, IL; 1994, p.393)

Verse 29
5. Men torment themselves in vain when they try to please God without faith.
g. That is, this is the work that God requires, that you believe in me, and therefore he calls them back to faith.


Geneva Bible Notes (1599). (Bellingham, WA: Logos Bible Software, 2003), Jn 6:28–29.



Jesus sets them straight: The work of God—i.e. what God requires—is faith. This is not faith in the abstract, an existential trust without a coherent object. Rather, they must believe in the one [God] has sent[1] Pillar New Tetament commentary D.A. Carson

John_6:28-29. Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, —

The chief work, the greatest work which you can do. Spurgeon commentary

​

---

[1] D. A. Carson, The Gospel according to John (The Pillar New Testament Commentary; Leicester, England; Grand Rapids, MI: Inter-Varsity Press; W.B. Eerdmans, 1991), 285.


The work of Greek exegetes

Believe. Faith is put as a moral act or work. The work of God is to believe. Faith includes all the works which God requires. The Jews’ question contemplates numerous works. Jesus’ answer directs them to one work. Canon Westcott justly observes that “this simple formula contains the complete solution of the relation of faith and works.”11 Marvin Richardson Vincent, Word Studies in the New Testament (vol. 2; New York: Charles Scribner’s Sons, 1887), 148–149.

The meaning is not,—that faith is wrought in us by God, is the work of God; but that the truest way of working the work of God is to believe on Him whom He hath sent.11 Henry Alford, Alford’s Greek Testament: An Exegetical and Critical Commentary (vol. 1; Grand Rapids, MI: Guardian Press, 1976), 761.
Messianic work.

28. τί ποιῶμεν …; What must we do (v. 5) that we may work? Perhaps they understood Him to mean that they must earn what they desire; certainly they see that Christ’s words have a moral meaning; they must do the works required by God. But how?
29. τὸ ἔργον. They probably thought of works of the law, tithes, sacrifices, &c. He tells them of one work, one moral act, from which all the rest derive their value, continuous belief (πιστεύητε, not πιστεύσητε) in Him whom God has sent. Comp. Acts 16:31. On ἵνα and ἀπέστειλεν see on 1:8, 33, 4:47, 17:3.1
1 A. Plummer, The Gospel according to S. John (Cambridge Greek Testament for Schools and Colleges; Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1896), 155.

rather than deal with

Acts 16:30–31 (KJV 1900) — 30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? 31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Believe is the answer to what must i do

Not the nothing "God will cause you to believe if you are among the elect" of your theology

You simply asserted your view

John 15:16

Again Christs choice of his apostles

His disciples were given to him by the Father.

John 17:6–12 (NASB 2020) — 6 “I have revealed Your name to the men whom You gave Me out of the world; they were Yours and You gave them to Me, and they have followed Your word.

From them he chose 12 to be apostles

Luke 6:13–16 (ESV) — 13 And when day came, he called his disciples and chose from them twelve, whom he named apostles: 14 Simon, whom he named Peter, and Andrew his brother, and James and John, and Philip, and Bartholomew, 15 and Matthew, and Thomas, and James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon who was called the Zealot, 16 and Judas the son of James, and Judas Iscariot, who became a traitor.

John 6:70 (ESV) — 70 Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the twelve? And yet one of you is a devil.”

John 13:18 (UASV) — 18 I do not speak of all of you. I know the ones I have chosen; but it is that the Scripture may be fulfilled, ‘He who eats My bread has lifted up his heel against Me.’

clearly Christ chose his apostles

Ye have not chosen me. The word here translated chosen is that from which is derived the word elect, and means the same thing. It is frequently thus translated, Mar. 13:20; Mat. 24:22, 24, 31; Col. 3:12. It refers here, doubtless, to his choosing or electing them to be apostles. He says that it was not because they had chosen him to be their teacher and guide, but because he had designated them to be his apostles. See Jn. 6:70; also Mat. 4:18–22.11 Albert Barnes, Notes on the New Testament: Luke & John (ed. Robert Frew; London: Blackie & Son, 1884–1885), 341.

consider the various choices here

Matthew 22:1–14 (ESV) — 1 And again Jesus spoke to them in parables, saying, 2 “The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a king who gave a wedding feast for his son, 3 and sent his servants to call those who were invited to the wedding feast, but they would not come. 4 Again he sent other servants, saying, ‘Tell those who are invited, “See, I have prepared my dinner, my oxen and my fat calves have been slaughtered, and everything is ready. Come to the wedding feast.” ’ 5 But they paid no attention and went off, one to his farm, another to his business, 6 while the rest seized his servants, treated them shamefully, and killed them. 7 The king was angry, and he sent his troops and destroyed those murderers and burned their city. 8 Then he said to his servants, ‘The wedding feast is ready, but those invited were not worthy. 9 Go therefore to the main roads and invite to the wedding feast as many as you find.’ 10 And those servants went out into the roads and gathered all whom they found, both bad and good. So the wedding hall was filled with guests. 11 “But when the king came in to look at the guests, he saw there a man who had no wedding garment. 12 And he said to him, ‘Friend, how did you get in here without a wedding garment?’ And he was speechless. 13 Then the king said to the attendants, ‘Bind him hand and foot and cast him into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’ 14 For many are called, but few are chosen.”


Think of how many times passages like John 15:16 (“You did not choose me; I chose you…”) are used as proof texts for the Calvinistic belief of individual election to salvation when clearly Jesus is speaking to His servants who are being prepared to take the invitation to the rest of the world. They are using Divine Choice #1 as proof for their belief about Divine Choice #3.



Divine Choice #1: The choice of His servants, who were given the task of sending out the invitation.

Divine Choice #2: The choice to send the invitation first to His own and then to all others.

Divine Choice #3: The choice to allow only those clothed in proper wedding garments to enter the feast.

In John 15:16 we have the choice of the apostles

Ye have not chosen me. The word here translated chosen is that from which is derived the word elect, and means the same thing. It is frequently thus translated, Mar. 13:20; Mat. 24:22, 24, 31; Col. 3:12. It refers here, doubtless, to his choosing or electing them to be apostles. He says that it was not because they had chosen him to be their teacher and guide, but because he had designated them to be his apostles. See Jn. 6:70; also Mat. 4:18–22.11 Albert Barnes, Notes on the New Testament: Luke & John (ed. Robert Frew; London: Blackie & Son, 1884–1885), 341.



But I chose you (ἀλλʼ ἐγω ἐξελεξαμην ὑμας [all’ egō exelexamēn humas]). First aorist middle indicative of ἐκλεγω [eklegō]. See this same verb and tense used for the choice of the disciples by Christ (6:70; 13:18; 15:19). Jesus recognizes his own responsibility in the choice after a night of prayer (Luke 6:13).11 A.T. Robertson, Word Pictures in the New Testament (Nashville, TN: Broadman Press, 1933), Jn 15:16.



12 In these days he went out to the mountain to pray, and all night he continued in prayer to God. 13 And when day came, he called his disciples and chose from them twelve, whom he named apostles: 14 Simon, whom he named Peter, and Andrew his brother, and James and John, and Philip, and Bartholomew, 15 and Matthew, and Thomas, and James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon who was called the Zealot, 16 and Judas the son of James, and Judas Iscariot, who became a traitor11 The Holy Bible: English Standard Version (Wheaton, IL: Crossway Bibles, 2016), Lk 6:12–16.



True, the subject now in hand is not the ordinary election of believers, by which they are adopted to be the children of God, but that special election, by which he set apart his disciples to the office of preaching the Gospel11 John Calvin and William Pringle, Commentary on the Gospel according to John (vol. 2; Bellingham, WA: Logos Bible Software, 2010), 119.



16. οὐχ ὑμεῖς. Not ye chose Me, but I chose you. Ὑμεῖς and ἐγώ are emphatic. Ἐκλέγειν refers to their election to be Apostles (6:70, 13:18; Acts 1:2); therefore the aorist as referring to a definite act in the past should be preserved. So also ἔθηκα, I appointed you, i. e. assigned you to a definite post, as in 2 Tim. 1:11; Heb. 1:2. This is better than ‘I ordained,’ as A. V. here and 1 Tim. 2:7, ‘ordain’ having become a technical term in ecclesiastical language. Comp. Acts 13:47, 20:28; 1 Cor. 12:28. The repetition of ὑμεῖς throughout the verse emphasizes the personal responsibility of the Apostles.11 A. Plummer, The Gospel according to S. John (Cambridge Greek Testament for Schools and Colleges; Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1896), 286.



In John 15:16, Jesus is not talking about choosing people to salvation, nor is he speaking generally of believers. Rather, he is talking specifically of picking his apostles and preparing them for their ministry, all of which Jesus accomplished during his earthly ministry. There is nothing here about selecting people for salvation before creation.



Smelley, Hutson. Deconstructing Calvinism: A Biblical Analysis and Refutation (p. 184). Hutson Smelley.

I'm going to have to pull ou the old Groundhog Day response from now on rofl

 

[TomL]

I'm going to have to pull ou the old Groundhog Day response from now on rofl

Or save previous replies for those like Kermos

 

[Kermos]

You still ignore key points

sorry but you show no such thing

Posting random reference with a text or argument shows nothing

Deuteronomy 30:11–19 (LSB) — 11 “For this commandment which I am commanding you today is not too difficult for you, nor is it far from you. 12 “It is not in heaven, that you should say, ‘Who will go up to heaven for us and get it for us and make us hear it, that we may do it?’ 13 “Nor is it beyond the sea, that you should say, ‘Who will cross the sea for us and get it for us and make us hear it, that we may do it?’ 14 “But the word is very near you, in your mouth and in your heart, that you may do it. 15 “See, I have set before you today life and prosperity, and death and calamity; 16 in that I am commanding you today to love Yahweh your God, to walk in His ways, and to keep His commandments and His statutes and His judgments, that you may live and multiply, and that Yahweh your God may bless you in the land where you are entering to possess it. 17 “But if your heart turns away and you will not listen, but are drawn away and worship other gods and serve them, 18 I declare to you today that you shall surely perish. You will not prolong your days in the land where you are crossing the Jordan to enter and possess it. 19 “I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. So choose life in order that you may live, you and your seed,

Joshua 24:15–24 (LSB) — 15 “If it is evil in your sight to serve Yahweh, choose for yourselves today whom you will serve: whether the gods which your fathers served which were beyond the River or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you are living; but as for me and my house, we will serve Yahweh.” 16 And the people answered and said, “Far be it from us that we should forsake Yahweh to serve other gods; 17 for Yahweh our God is He who brought us and our fathers up out of the land of Egypt, from the house of slavery, and who did these great signs in our sight and kept us through all the way in which we went and among all the peoples through whose midst we passed. 18 “And Yahweh drove out from before us all the peoples, even the Amorites who lived in the land. We also will serve Yahweh, for He is our God.” 19 Then Joshua said to the people, “You will not be able to serve Yahweh, for He is a holy God. He is a jealous God; He will not forgive your transgression or your sins. 20 “If you forsake Yahweh and serve foreign gods, then He will turn and do you harm and consume you after He has done good to you.” 21 And the people said to Joshua, “No, but we will serve Yahweh.” 22 And Joshua said to the people, “You are witnesses against yourselves that you have chosen for yourselves Yahweh, to serve Him.” And they said, “We are witnesses.” 23 “So now, put away the foreign gods which are in your midst, and incline your hearts to Yahweh, the God of Israel.” 24 And the people said to Joshua, “We will serve Yahweh our God, and we will listen to His voice.”



Nope I call your bible denying blather a falsehood

You did nothing at all to show man lacked the capacity to make a choice to choose life and walk inb the ways of Yahweh

Deuteronomy 30:11–19 (LSB) — 11 “For this commandment which I am commanding you today is not too difficult for you, nor is it far from you. 12 “It is not in heaven, that you should say, ‘Who will go up to heaven for us and get it for us and make us hear it, that we may do it?’ 13 “Nor is it beyond the sea, that you should say, ‘Who will cross the sea for us and get it for us and make us hear it, that we may do it?’ 14 “But the word is very near you, in your mouth and in your heart, that you may do it. 15 “See, I have set before you today life and prosperity, and death and calamity; 16 in that I am commanding you today to love Yahweh your God, to walk in His ways, and to keep His commandments and His statutes and His judgments, that you may live and multiply, and that Yahweh your God may bless you in the land where you are entering to possess it. 17 “But if your heart turns away and you will not listen, but are drawn away and worship other gods and serve them, 18 I declare to you today that you shall surely perish. You will not prolong your days in the land where you are crossing the Jordan to enter and possess it. 19 “I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. So choose life in order that you may live, you and your seed,

that further from this passage Paul writes

Romans 10:6–17 (KJV 1900) — 6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above 7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.) 8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; 9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. 12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. 14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! 16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? 17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

you also did nothing at all to dispute man's ability to make a choice of which God he shall serve

Joshua 24:15–24 (LSB) — 15 “If it is evil in your sight to serve Yahweh, choose for yourselves today whom you will serve: whether the gods which your fathers served which were beyond the River or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you are living; but as for me and my house, we will serve Yahweh.” 16 And the people answered and said, “Far be it from us that we should forsake Yahweh to serve other gods; 17 for Yahweh our God is He who brought us and our fathers up out of the land of Egypt, from the house of slavery, and who did these great signs in our sight and kept us through all the way in which we went and among all the peoples through whose midst we passed. 18 “And Yahweh drove out from before us all the peoples, even the Amorites who lived in the land. We also will serve Yahweh, for He is our God.” 19 Then Joshua said to the people, “You will not be able to serve Yahweh, for He is a holy God. He is a jealous God; He will not forgive your transgression or your sins. 20 “If you forsake Yahweh and serve foreign gods, then He will turn and do you harm and consume you after He has done good to you.” 21 And the people said to Joshua, “No, but we will serve Yahweh.” 22 And Joshua said to the people, “You are witnesses against yourselves that you have chosen for yourselves Yahweh, to serve Him.” And they said, “We are witnesses.” 23 “So now, put away the foreign gods which are in your midst, and incline your hearts to Yahweh, the God of Israel.” 24 And the people said to Joshua, “We will serve Yahweh our God, and we will listen to His voice.”

You simply framed your comments to avoid the obvious mention of their ability to argue, it does not state how this ability was given

Ignoring the elephant in the house, they had this ability.




You ignored the point

Deuteronomy 30:11–14 (ESV) — 11 “For this commandment that I command you today is not too hard for you, neither is it far off. 12 It is not in heaven, that you should say, ‘Who will ascend to heaven for us and bring it to us, that we may hear it and do it?’ 13 Neither is it beyond the sea, that you should say, ‘Who will go over the sea for us and bring it to us, that we may hear it and do it?’ 14 But the word is very near you. It is in your mouth and in your heart, so that you can do it.
what part of you can do it did you fail to understand?






You stated men had no ability to choose to aserve God. The passage shows otherwise in the context which you ignored

Joshua 24:31 (ESV) — 31 Israel served the LORD all the days of Joshua, and all the days of the elders who outlived Joshua and had known all the work that the LORD did for Israel.


Once again ignoring the word of God to propagate your theology

I would like you to address the fact they chose to and did serve the Lord according to scripture, which you claimed they could not

You still ignore key points.

You show nothing that states God created man with the ability to choose God.

Your "Posting random reference with a text or argument shows nothing" is your derision of Holy Scripture.

You twist Deuteronomy 30:11-19 and Joshua 24:15-24 in order for your heart to nullify and void the Word of God “you did not choose Me, but I chose you” (John 15:16) and “I chose you out of the world” (John 15:19) because you exalt man's word far above this beautiful Word of God.

Furthermore, your heart relegated the Word of God to null and void as you ignore John 15:16, John 15:19, John 6:29, John 3:21, John 3:3, Matthew 11:25, and John 13:34!

Even though it is written "But the word is very near you, in your mouth and in your heart, that you may observe it" (Deuteronomy 30:14), you yourself, TomL, purged the Word of God from your heart, and it is written in the same passage (that you neglected to quote) that the LORD God will prosper the people "if you obey the LORD your God to keep His commandments and His statutes which are written in this book of the law, if you turn to the LORD your God with all your heart and soul" (Deuteronomy 30:10); however, the people failed because it is written "So they put away the foreign gods from among them and served the LORD; and He could bear the misery of Israel no longer" (Judges 10:16).

Consider Joshua 24:15-24 in relation. Judges 10:16 contains the first occurrence of "foreign gods" after Joshua 24:23, so there is no record of the people in attendance fulfilling Joshua's command of "Now therefore, put away the foreign gods which are in your midst" (Joshua 24:23) thus the people still had foreign gods with respect to Joshua 24:24, and non-performance of the command shows fruit contrary of their choice mentioned by Joshua - those people didn't "turn to the LORD your God with all your heart and soul" (Deuteronomy 30:10) at the time of Joshua.

There is more on the matter of Deuteronomy 30:11-19 and Joshua 24:15-24 below.

You inquired "I would like you to address the fact they chose to and did serve the Lord according to scripture, which you claimed they could not", and God caused me to address that concept in the previous couple of paragraphs.

Behold, you wrote of the Word of God previously.

Falsehood

So, you call the Word of God falsehood because God caused me to quote John 15:16, John 15:19, John 6:29, John 3:21, John 3:3, Matthew 11:25, and John 13:34 - all of which you called falsehood, and no Christian calls the Christ's sayings falsehood.

No portion of Deuteronomy 30:11–19 mentions God imparting man the ability to choose toward God, unless you are using the faulty book of Free-willians 30:19 as shown in the following paragraph.

Let’s look at 2 of your quotations, there, TomL, which you preach God imparted man with the ability to choose God in order for your heart to nullify the Word of God recorded in John 15:16, John 15:19, John 6:29, John 3:21, John 3:3, Matthew 11:25, and John 13:34 -

The word of TomL		The Word of God
I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. So choose God in order that you may live since God gave you the ability to choose God, you and your descendants (TomL 30:19)		I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. So choose life in order that you may live, you and your descendants (Deuteronomy 30:19)

And all of your emboldened words are absent of "thus says the Lord", so your heart adulterates the Holy Scripture.

No portion of Joshua 24:15–24 mentions God imparting man the ability to choose toward God, unless you are using the faulty book of Free-willians 24:15 as shown in the following paragraph.

Your adulteration of the Holy Scripture in order to nullify the Word of God recorded in John 15:16, John 15:19, John 6:29, John 3:21, John 3:3, Matthew 11:25, and John 13:34 is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:

The tradition of man		The Word of God
If it is evil in your sight to choose to serve the LORD, choose for yourselves today whom you will serve: whether the gods which your fathers served which were beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you are living, or the LORD by the ability God gave you to choose the One True God; but as for me and my house, we choose to serve the LORD. (TomL 24:15)		If it is evil in your sight to serve the LORD, choose for yourselves today whom you will serve: whether the gods which your fathers served which were beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you are living; but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD. (Joshua 24:15)

so your heart preaches your sovereignty of man eliminating Christ's Sovereignty of God, and so go your adulterations of the Holy Scripture again and again and again.

The only way for free-willian philosophers to acheive free-will is for them to add to the Word of God, and it is written "do not add to His words or He will reprove you, and you will be proved a liar" (Proverbs 30:6).

We Christians sing Christ's Sovereignty of God song that God is so very Holy that we cannot approach this Loving King Jesus without being summoned and chosen by His Holiness; in contrast, the daringly self-willed (2 Peter 2:9-10) Free-willian Philosophers sing the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9) sour song about man choosing His Holiness:

The traditions of men		The Word of God
I chose Jesus, but Jesus didn't choose me (TomL 15:16)		you did not choose Me, but I chose you (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:16)
I chose Jesus so now Jesus must obey me to make me out of the world (TomL 15:19)		I chose you out of the world (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:19)
This is not the work of God but this is the work of man, that you believe in Him whom He has sent (TomL 6:29)		This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent (Lord Jesus Christ, John 6:29)
I chose to practice the Truth coming to the Light so that my works may be manifested as having been wrought in me (TomL 3:21)		he who practices the Truth comes to the Light, so that his works may be manifested as having been wrought in God (Lord Jesus Christ, John 3:21)
Truly, truly, I say to you, before one is born again he can see the Kingdom of God[ (TomL 3:3)		Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God (Lord Jesus Christ, John 3:3)
To your own praise, that you have revealed these things to yourselves for you are the wise and intelligent ones who cause yourselves to repent (TomL 11:25)		I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent and have revealed them to babes (Lord Jesus Christ, Matthew 11:25)
A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even according to your fleshly love, that you also love one another (TomL 13:34)		A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another (Lord Jesus Christ, John 13:34)

We Christians sing the sweet song of the power of God to the glory of God! The Word of God is beautiful - to God be all honor and glory and power and dominion forever and ever! Praise be to the Christ of us Christians.

You free-willians sing the sour song of the power of man to the glory of man!

Christ says "It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are Spirit and are Life" (John 6:63) as well as "He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day" (John 12:48).

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE CHRIST FOREVER!!!

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