civic
Active Member
The passage works against you and works for Trins as it’s the NT Shema- the One Lord, One God. Both co- creators of all things . Your focus is on the wrong thing that the passage is emphasizing.
Hope this helps !!!
All Claims of The Son's Deity
- Thread starter Johann
- Start date
Hope this helps !!!
civic
Active Member
The point is it backfires on him since only applies to Jesus as Lord.
Jesus words come to mind seeing they will not see and hearing they will not hear.
It’s another strawman
synergy
Active Member
Yes, The Lord which is the translation of YHWH in the LXX.
civic
Active Member
Yes indeed and all the OT quotes about YHWH that are applied to the Son in the NT declaring He is YHWH.
Another uni stumbling block
synergy
Active Member
It takes a lot to be a unitarian. First and foremost a unitarian needs dirt-poor Language Comprehension skills and poor Logic skills. From there on, it's all downhill culminating in a full blown unitarian heretical mindset.
civic
Active Member
I still think its spiritual which the by product is what you said above. The new birth would open up their hearts/minds to the truth concerning Christ. No one can say Jesus is LORD except by the spirit.
Runningman
Active Member
Judeo-Christian monotheism is in regards to the Father alone who is YHWH, Lord God Almighty. Sorry, you have been very deceived and taught an indefensible version of God.
Runningman
Active Member
The Father being the one God works perfectly for what I believe. Notice how the one God is not the "Father, Son, and Holy Spirit" but rather the one God for us is the Father. Either Paul was wrong and misidentified the Father as the one God or Paul was correct. I am going with Paul being correct.
synergy
Active Member
Here we go again with "the Father alone" fallacy. Where does this "Father alone" fallacy exist, except in your unitarian mindset?
Sorry, you have been very deceived and taught an indefensible version of God.
Runningman
Active Member
John 17:1-3 refers to the Father alone being the true God as was already proven. I won the debate on who God is, but you just reject what the Bible says. I am sure there is a part of you that agrees with Jesus about the Father being God alone, but you aren't ready to publicly admit it.
I cannot overstate how much your questions have helped me to understand the Triune God more thoroughly. I hear the mistakes you are making and don't make the same mistakes, so it becomes much clearer who God is.
Jesus shows he is God and presents his pre-existence in subtle ways. But what is to be noted here is that Jesus does not go around saying directly he is One who is also deity of the same God. He would be stoned for that. Of course, this has been pointed out to no end.
The new point to recognize is that Jesus prays sort of as an expression of them having eternal life by knowing the true God. This indicates that Judaism was having misconceptions of who God is and possibly thought other gods existed, despite the testimony of scripture. It was not a message to say Jesus was a separate god. Jesus is God (as One in the Triune sense) and thus not a separate god. That was not going to be said directly since that was not the message he was emphasizing explicitly. But 17:5 shows Jesus pre-exists and in John 1 we see he was with God and was God. This may mean the conventional Trinitarian doctrine is not as accurate as we could desire but it is closer than any other elaborations on scripture.
synergy
Active Member
Those verses do not explicitly say "Father alone" anywhere. It's only in your imagination and that does not count, sorry. Besides, it would flat out contradict John 1:1 where the Word was God.
You won the Bible Altering Prize. Your malicious attempt to insert "alone" alongside "You" (The Father) might work around your circles but not around here.
praise_yeshua
Active Member
I'm glad you recognize that KJVO arguments are foolish.
I do agree that God desires reconciling all men to Himself.
praise_yeshua
Active Member
Luke 10:22 All things have been handed over to me by my Father, and no one knows who the Son is except the Father, or who the Father is except the Son and anyone to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.”
Runningman tries to insert the English definition "Being without anyone or anything else" even though God is not alone per this verse John 17:3 (ESV)
3And this is eternal life, that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent.
The distinction is against false gods and against false understanding of Jews about the essence of God. So this is a saying about singularity among claims there are other gods, not of God being solitary or alone in essence.
civic
Active Member
Yes and on 17:5 they were together with one another before creation. Every passage they use to deny the Son backfire on them.
synergy
Active Member
Yes. All that is true and RM flat out contradicts John 1:1 where it is mentioned that "the Word was God" also.
Runningman
Active Member
John 17:1-3 explicitly and directly states of the Father He is the true God alone. This destroys the trinity.
John 17
3Now this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom You have sent
| 3441. monos ► |
Lexical Summary monos: Alone, only, solitary, single Original Word: μόνος Part of Speech: Adjective Transliteration: monos Pronunciation: MO-nos Phonetic Spelling: (mon'-os) KJV: alone, only, by themselves NASB: alone, only, just, merely, even, mere, only one Word Origin: [probably from G3306 (μένω - abides)] 1. remaining, i.e. sole or single 2. (by implication) mere |
At your service,
Runningman
Active Member
Same. If I was ever on the fence about Unitarianism, seeing the things you have said have sorta flicked on a light bulb from time to time, and gave me those "Ah ha!" kind of moments. What I have realized beyond all doubt is that the Father alone is the true God. Your questions have helped me dig deeper, study more, and strengthened my faith immensely. I will always be a Unitarian and I will keep showing the apostate trinitarian church the error of their ways.
I also see you misunderstand the difference between the old covenant and the new covenant. In the old covenant, Jesus was not required to have eternal life as they already had the law and just needed to follow it. The major change in the new covenant is that there is no physical temple and sin sacrifices aren't required anymore, but abstaining from sin is still required. "Christianity" as we have come to call it, is actually just Judaism under a different covenant that welcomes Gentiles as well. So there isn't a different trinitarian god in Christianity because there has never historically been a trinity god in Judaism. Jews are strictly monotheistic and only believe in a one person God, hence they always referred to God with singular pronouns. God is one person to Jews, Jesus, and Christians. Always has been, always will be, you can't change it, though many seem to want to try. Scripture will always been the mountain you can't move.
like I shared... the meaning μόνος is not overlapping with the English concept of exclusive of anyone or anything else. the topic is not wheter the Father is all by himself in essence in being God. It means that he is the only true God compared to other nations claiming gods that exist.
You are pushing a novel, gnostic, private interpretation of God without having brought in sufficient scholarly and theological discussion on it.
