All Claims of The Son's Deity

[mikesw]

Same. If I was ever on the fence about Unitarianism, seeing the things you have said have sorta flicked on a light bulb from time to time, and gave me those "Ah ha!" kind of moments. What I have realized beyond all doubt is that the Father alone is the true God. Your questions have helped me dig deeper, study more, and strengthened my faith immensely. I will always be a Unitarian and I will keep showing the apostate trinitarian church the error of their ways.

Wow. Of billions of Christians who recognize the Triune God, you say they are apostate and claim that novel believers of pretend Jesus who lacks divinity is the only proper belief. That is hardly believable that your new, novel, private interpretation means that everyone else missed it. You might as well be JW or mormon.

I also see you misunderstand the difference between the old covenant and the new covenant. In the old covenant, Jesus was not required to have eternal life as they already had the law and just needed to follow it.

I'm glad you share your ignorance of the OT as well. Eternal life has always been through faith toward God.

The major change in the new covenant is that there is no physical temple and sin sacrifices aren't required anymore, but abstaining from sin is still required. "Christianity" as we have come to call it, is actually just Judaism under a different covenant that welcomes Gentiles as well.

Judaism, as something emerging out of the return from the Babylon exile was never acceptable to God, especially after the Maccabean revolt.

So there isn't a different trinitarian god in Christianity because there has never historically been a trinity god in Judaism. Jews are strictly monotheistic and only believe in a one person God, hence they always referred to God with singular pronouns. God is one person to Jews, Jesus, and Christians. Always has been, always will be, you can't change it, though many seem to want to try. Scripture will always been the mountain you can't move.

You reject all history in your assertions. So there is no reason to take your beliefs into consideration.

You again are ignorant by suggesting the recognition of the Triune God is not monotheistic.

If you want to make people belief your novel, gnostics, private interpretation, then you need to bring this into discussion with scholars and theologians. But you do not have sufficient arguments for that.

 

[Runningman]

like I shared... the meaning μόνος is not overlapping with the English concept of exclusive of anyone or anything else. the topic is not wheter the Father is all by himself in essence in being God. It means that he is the only true God compared to other nations claiming gods that exist.
You are pushing a novel, gnostic, private interpretation of God without having brought in sufficient scholarly and theological discussion on it.

Only in John 17:3 explicitly and directly means alone. It's referring to the Father as the true God alone. This disproves trinitarianism completely. No doubt about it, no arguing your way out of it or trying to gaslight people into questioning what they can plainly see in every lexicon and concordance. I know arguing seems to be a past time for you, but you should do so with some honor. When you see the truth, just respect the truth and go with it instead of trying to continue to blind people.

 

[Runningman]

Wow. Of billions of Christians who recognize the Triune God, you say they are apostate and claim that novel believers of pretend Jesus who lacks divinity is the only proper belief. That is hardly believable that your new, novel, private interpretation means that everyone else missed it. You might as well be JW or mormon.

Yes, there are many deceived people in your organization. Most I assume are not intentionally deceived.

Why do you seem so skeptical? Just taught that the majority are wrong.

Matthew 7
13Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14But small is the gate and narrow the way that leads to life, and only a few find it.

I'm glad you share your ignorance of the OT as well. Eternal life has always been through faith toward God.

Faith and works are required under both covenants.

Judaism, as something emerging out of the return from the Babylon exile was never acceptable to God, especially after the Maccabean revolt.

Judaism is explicitly formalized and codified in the Old Testament and said to have been passed on to the Israelites through Moses as the mediator between God and man.

You reject all history in your assertions. So there is no reason to take your beliefs into consideration.

Ditto.

You again are ignorant by suggesting the recognition of the Triune God is not monotheistic.

Polytheistic.

If you want to make people belief your novel, gnostics, private interpretation, then you need to bring this into discussion with scholars and theologians. But you do not have sufficient arguments for that.

It seems your playbook is first mention a trinity god that the Bible never talks about, so you defer to secret knowledge that only you seem to have, rather than something the Bible makes clear. After that, you claim others who have the Bible explicitly stating that the Father is God alone in John 17:3 are gnostic even when they aren't deferring to secret knowledge. I think you have a guilty conscious and you're trying to project your Gnosticism onto me.

 

[civic]

John 17:1-3 explicitly and directly states of the Father He is the true God alone. This destroys the trinity.

John 17
3Now this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom You have sent

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3441. monos ►

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Lexical Summary monos: Alone, only, solitary, single Original Word: μόνος Part of Speech: Adjective Transliteration: monos Pronunciation: MO-nos Phonetic Spelling: (mon'-os) KJV: alone, only, by themselves NASB: alone, only, just, merely, even, mere, only one Word Origin: [probably from G3306 (μένω - abides)] 1. remaining, i.e. sole or single 2. (by implication) mere​

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At your service,

Already debunked that with the same word monos in Jude 1:4 making Jesus the one and only LORD in scripture.

And One Lord, one faith, one baptism Eph 4:5

Next uni strawman

 

[Runningman]

Already debunked that with the same word monos in Jude 1:4 making Jesus the one and only LORD in scripture.

And One Lord, one faith, one baptism Eph 4:5

Next uni strawman

John 17:3 debunks trinitarianism for several reason. First of all, Jesus explicitly identified one specific person as "the only true God" and that person is not himself, but the Father. The word "only" excludes others all other possible candidates from the category of "true God" which soundly and explicitly rules out a trinity. Since the Father is the only true God, alone, then there is no second or third person who can also be the same God without contradicting the meaning of "only."

This is a problem for you because you, as a trinitarian, depend on multiple divine persons sharing one divine identity, but Jesus' wording makes your concept of God linguistically impossible. Again, "only" cannot mean "one shared among three" and "true God" cannot describe a group since it is applied to a single person.

Additionally, sender and sent are not equal terms. One is the source and the other is the dependent. John 17:3 debunks the trinity completely and proves the Father alone is the true God.

 

[civic]

John 17:3 debunks trinitarianism for several reason. First of all, Jesus explicitly identified one specific person as "the only true God" and that person is not himself, but the Father. The word "only" excludes others all other possible candidates from the category of "true God" which soundly and explicitly rules out a trinity. Since the Father is the only true God, alone, then there is no second or third person who can also be the same God without contradicting the meaning of "only."

This is a problem for you because you, as a trinitarian, depend on multiple divine persons sharing one divine identity, but Jesus' wording makes your concept of God linguistically impossible. Again, "only" cannot mean "one shared among three" and "true God" cannot describe a group since it is applied to a single person.

Additionally, sender and sent are not equal terms. One is the source and the other is the dependent. John 17:3 debunks the trinity completely and proves the Father alone is the true God.

Keep telling yourself that and the truth will continue to escape you when it comes to who Jesus really is in scripture

 

[Runningman]

Keep telling yourself that and the truth will continue to escape you when it comes to who Jesus really is in scripture

I am just going to stick with what the Bible says. You're free to reject God if you wish.

 

[civic]

I am just going to stick with what the Bible says. You're free to reject God if you wish.

I do stick with scripture unlike you who rejects the One and Only Lord, Savior, Redeemer for your sins.

 

[mikesw]

Only in John 17:3 explicitly and directly means alone. It's referring to the Father as the true God alone. This disproves trinitarianism completely. No doubt about it, no arguing your way out of it or trying to gaslight people into questioning what they can plainly see in every lexicon and concordance. I know arguing seems to be a past time for you, but you should do so with some honor. When you see the truth, just respect the truth and go with it instead of trying to continue to blind people.

You might have to explain how this disproves the Triune God. Like I said, you already use an English meaning that is not quite the Greek meaning.

Sharing the truth and exposing lies is a decent past time that also is helping me understand more about God.

 

[mikesw]

Yes, there are many deceived people in your organization. Most I assume are not intentionally deceived.

That does not matter. There are some deceived people in the church of Christ. It gets worse in the unitarian novel beliefs. It does become a question whether the latter is intentional.

Why do you seem so skeptical? Just taught that the majority are wrong.

Matthew 7
13Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14But small is the gate and narrow the way that leads to life, and only a few find it.

If you had a sufficient argument for your beliefs, people would have followed them. Instead, you are leading the weak people into deception.

Faith and works are required under both covenants.

I can add that error about works into the problems with unitarian beliefs -- seemingly that some sort of works are required for justification. It certainly would not be unexpected that you emphasize works as such a requirement. Maybe you are not stating your beliefs accurately.

Judaism is explicitly formalized and codified in the Old Testament and said to have been passed on to the Israelites through Moses as the mediator between God and man.

That is another error in your understanding of the OT and the beliefs of the NT-era Jews.

Ditto.

It is good to see you affirm what I said about: You reject all history in your assertions. So there is no reason to take your beliefs into consideration.

Polytheistic.

If you want to call the recognition of the Triune God as polytheistic, that at least gets you to recognize Jesus' divinity. That would be a little closer to the true beliefs of Christ's divinity.
If you want to make people belief your novel, gnostics, private interpretation, then you need to bring this into discussion with scholars and theologians. But you do not have sufficient arguments for that.

It seems your playbook is first mention a trinity god that the Bible never talks about, so you defer to secret knowledge that only you seem to have, rather than something the Bible makes clear. After that, you claim others who have the Bible explicitly stating that the Father is God alone in John 17:3 are gnostic even when they aren't deferring to secret knowledge. I think you have a guilty conscious and you're trying to project your Gnosticism onto me.

Really? The Triune God is some secret belief of 2000 years? That hardly is a new or novel understanding of God.

 

[Runningman]

I do stick with scripture unlike you who rejects the One and Only Lord, Savior, Redeemer for your sins.

You have rejected the clear and explicit words of John 17:1-3 that explicitly state the Father alone is the true God.

In addition to John 17:3, proving the Father alone is the true God, we also have Paul explicitly defining the "one God" as the Father, not a tri-person being in 1 Corinthians 8:6.

There is also Ephesians 4:5-6 which says the one God is the Father again, not a group of persons in a trinity.

Jesus acknowledged the Father is his God and his brothers God in John 20:17 and again in Revelation 1:6, 3:12.

Jesus says true worshippers will worship the Father, not a tri-person godhead in John 4:23,24.

God and Jesus are not the same being since God glorifies His servant Jesus in Acts 3:13.

Like the others, 1 Timothy 2:5 states there is one God and one mediator, the man Jesus. A mediator cannot be the same being as the one he represents.

Like so many times at the open of all of Paul's letters, he says in Romans 15:6 that Jesus has a God, the Father, therefore Jesus is not that God.

Jesus refers to the "only God" again in John 5:44. This is exclusive language that applies only to the Father in all of Scripture.

 

[synergy]

John 17:1-3 explicitly and directly states of the Father He is the true God alone. This destroys the trinity.

John 17
3Now this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom You have sent

3441. monos ►

​

Lexical Summary monos: Alone, only, solitary, single Original Word: μόνος Part of Speech: Adjective Transliteration: monos Pronunciation: MO-nos Phonetic Spelling: (mon'-os) KJV: alone, only, by themselves NASB: alone, only, just, merely, even, mere, only one Word Origin: [probably from G3306 (μένω - abides)] 1. remaining, i.e. sole or single 2. (by implication) mere​

Thank you for supporting Trinitarianism by verifying that nowhere does John 17:3 mention "the Father alone". Also, you verified that the word "only" is found only in "the only true God" phrase which is a Monotheistic statement, which Trinitarianism supports!

Keep those Trinitarian verses coming! You're doing a great job!

 

[Runningman]

Thank you for supporting Trinitarianism by verifying that nowhere does John 17:3 mention "the Father alone". Also, you verified that the word "only" is found only in "the only true God" phrase which is a Monotheistic statement, which Trinitarianism supports!

Keep those Trinitarian verses coming! You're doing a great job!

John 17:3 supports Unitarianism. The Father is the true God alone. Give it a few days to let the initial shock of the trinity being disproven by Scripture settle in. I am sure you are a reasonable person and will come around.

 

[synergy]

John 17:3 supports Unitarianism. The Father is the true God alone. Give it a few days to let the initial shock of the trinity being disproven by Scripture settle in. I am sure you are a reasonable person and will come around.

Thanks for re-verifying that the word "only" (or even your word "alone") acts only on the word "God" and that makes John 17:3 a Monotheistic statement, which Trinitarianism supports!

Keep those Trinitarian verses coming! You're doing a superb job!

 

[mikesw]

You have rejected the clear and explicit words of John 17:1-3 that explicitly state the Father alone is the true God.

In addition to John 17:3, proving the Father alone is the true God, we also have Paul explicitly defining the "one God" as the Father, not a tri-person being in 1 Corinthians 8:6.

There is also Ephesians 4:5-6 which says the one God is the Father again, not a group of persons in a trinity.

Jesus acknowledged the Father is his God and his brothers God in John 20:17 and again in Revelation 1:6, 3:12.

Jesus says true worshippers will worship the Father, not a tri-person godhead in John 4:23,24.

God and Jesus are not the same being since God glorifies His servant Jesus in Acts 3:13.

Like the others, 1 Timothy 2:5 states there is one God and one mediator, the man Jesus. A mediator cannot be the same being as the one he represents.

Like so many times at the open of all of Paul's letters, he says in Romans 15:6 that Jesus has a God, the Father, therefore Jesus is not that God.

Jesus refers to the "only God" again in John 5:44. This is exclusive language that applies only to the Father in all of Scripture.

If you are using hyperliteralist reading of Ephesians 4:5-6, you have to say on one hand there is God and on the other hand there is the Father. So, per your interpretation technique they are separate entities.

The problem with debating Christadelphians is that they say their own reading of the text is understood clearly. When someone of equal ability and insight says the meaning is not limited to the Christadelphian's limited sense, the Christadelphians say "but those people are interpreting the scripture instead of following what we see as the obvious meaning." There is no debate because the Christadelphian assumes a superior ability.

 

[civic]

Thank you for supporting Trinitarianism by verifying that nowhere does John 17:3 mention "the Father alone". Also, you verified that the word "only" is found only in "the only true God" phrase which is a Monotheistic statement, which Trinitarianism supports!

Keep those Trinitarian verses coming! You're doing a great job!

yes the imaginary word added to ther bible which needs a black light and the lights turned off to see it

 

[civic]

If you are using hyperliteralist reading of Ephesians 4:5-6, you have to say on one hand there is God and on the other hand there is the Father. So, per your interpretation technique they are separate entities.

The problem with debating Christadelphians is that they say their own reading of the text is understood clearly. When someone of equal ability and insight says the meaning is not limited to the Christadelphian's limited sense, the Christadelphians say "but those people are interpreting the scripture instead of following what we see as the obvious meaning." There is no debate because the Christadelphian assumes a superior ability.

yes the same with the JW's and other uni's. they all do the same thing

 

[Runningman]

Thanks for re-verifying that the word "only" (or even your word "alone") acts only on the word "God" and that makes John 17:3 a Monotheistic statement, which Trinitarianism supports!

Keep those Trinitarian verses coming! You're doing a superb job!

Now that we have proven that there is no trinity, what do you say against Scripture now?

 

[Runningman]

If you are using hyperliteralist reading of Ephesians 4:5-6, you have to say on one hand there is God and on the other hand there is the Father. So, per your interpretation technique they are separate entities.

The problem with debating Christadelphians is that they say their own reading of the text is understood clearly. When someone of equal ability and insight says the meaning is not limited to the Christadelphian's limited sense, the Christadelphians say "but those people are interpreting the scripture instead of following what we see as the obvious meaning." There is no debate because the Christadelphian assumes a superior ability.

No, God is the Father. You think God is a separate being from the Father? That's modalism.

 

[mikesw]

No, God is the Father. You think God is a separate being from the Father? That's modalism.

I'm just saying for unitarian consistency, the unitarian must say that God and the Father are different. If that makes you a modalist, that is just building upon heresies.