All Claims of The Son's Deity

And God said
God Said..
.. Exodus 3:14-15 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you. 15, And God said moreover unto Moses,

Who told the standin to say what was said... actually using Gods name like that....

"Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations."

So take it up with Him.
I knew that I didn't say God wasn't with Moses.

Look God said to Moses - I AM that I AM (I will be what I will be) . . . Thus you shall say to the children of Israel, I AM has sent me unto you . . . Now from this point on, do we ever see an occurrence of anyone using that I AM as a 'name' for God?
But then in addition to that God also said:

Say this to the people of Israel: The LORD (Yahweh) God of you fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you. THIS IS MY NAME FOREVER, and thus I am to be remembered throughout all generations.

What name did God want to be known as forever - I AM or Yahweh?

What standin???? 'And the Standin for God be it Jesus or an angel though had to tell Moses what to say yada yada... But then were did this standin come up with Ex 3:13-14?' . . . where is a standin?

There's nothing for me to take up with God - I take him at his word.
 
You said: "There are no such examples of what one would consider an orthodox trinitarian in the first century."

Sure there are. You can wine all you want about trinitarians not existing in the 1st century but every author of the New Testament believed in the concept, even though they didn't call it that.

John said that the Word was with God and He was God and All things came into being through Him and He became flesh.
John knew that the Father, and the Son and the Holy Spirit were each God and together they were God.

The wise men from the east knew that the little boy Jesus was God. When they saw Him, they fell to the ground and worshiped Him. They came to worship Him and to offer Him extremely expensive gifts. They knew that ONLY God should be worshiped.

All the inhabitants of heaven knew that Jesus was God; The 4 living creatures and the 24 elders fell down before the Lamb and worshiped Him. Then multiplied millions of angels joined them in worship of Jesus. Only God should be worshiped.
Then every created thing in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all things in them worshiped the Father and the Son, Jesus, with EQUAL WORSHIP and the 24 elders once again fell down and worshiped them.

All 12 apostles knew that Jesus was God because they worshiped Him (Mt. 14:33). They knew that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit were each God and together they were God. Only God can be worshiped.

Mary Magdalene and the other Mary knew that Jesus was God because they worshiped Him. Mat. 28:9 Jesus did NOT rebuke them for worshiping Him, which He would have, if He was not God. The 2 Mary's knew that the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit were God individually and together. Only God should be worshiped.

A blind man who Jesus healed believed He was God, because he too worshiped Him. John 9:38

The author of Hebrews believed the trinity concept. He told us that even God the Father, called Jesus His Son - God. He also informed us that God the Father directed all the angels to worship Jesus. He knew that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit were each God, and together they were God.

Jesus Himself spoke of the trinity concept. "I (Jesus) will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper ... that is the Spirit of truth." John 14:16-17 In the next verse, Jesus equates Himself with the Holy Spirit saying: "I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you." Then in verse 23, Jesus equates Himself with both the Father and the Holy Spirit: "... and My Father will love him, and WE will come to him and make OUR abode with him." (in the form of the Holy Spirit)

" ... baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit." Mat. 28:19 Notice Jesus refers to ONE NAME here.

Paul believed in the trinity concept: "The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, be with you all." 2 Cor. 13:14

Also see Romans 8:9

"Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit (the Holy Spirit). And there are varieties of ministries, and the same Lord (Jesus the Son). There are varieties of effects, but the same God (the Father).

Matthew believed in the trinity concept: "he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove and lighting on Him (Jesus), and behold, a voice out of the heavens said, 'This is My (the Father's) beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased."

You have to be willfully blind to not see the concept of the trinity in the New Testament.

How about you hit the BIBLE and GET EDUCATED?





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You who? Me You?
 
The best way to learn is to use what you already know. "Answers in Genesis" is good and bad like most everything in this world.

Learning is knowing Good and Evil. Knowing what both are and finding where they're different. They often look the same. Speak the same and desire the same things.

One is about power. The other is about willingness.

Showing your willingness leads to so many good things. Living isn't about perfection. It is about learning. Experience. Knowledge for us without experience means nothing to us.

2Co 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

Heb 5:14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.
Your right. Most of the time I already believe what ever I quote, it's just easier to let them say it. Like this.

Christology The study of Jesus in the New Testament, namely, His persona, activity, and especially His role in salvation. Another more specific use of the term concentrates on how Jesus fulfills, exercises, and redefines what it means to be the Messiah of Israel.
The Lexham Bible Dictionary
 
The bad thing about it - those same verses that get repeated do not state that Jesus is God. The concept has to be read INTO the scripture.
We all read into scripture and scripture enlightens us when we read it or have it preached to us.

Read into this..."I and my Father are one"

Enlightened by Jesus' statement, "I and the Father are one," is a profound declaration of the Trinity.

It only a bad thing when you think you know it all and are unwilling to be enlightened.
 
We all read into scripture and scripture enlightens us when we read it or have it preached to us.

Read into this..."I and my Father are one"

Enlightened by Jesus' statement, "I and the Father are one," is a profound declaration of the Trinity.

It only a bad thing when you think you know it all and are unwilling to be enlightened.
John 10:30 I and my Father are one . . . You read it as Jesus is God.
I read it as Jesus and God his Father are one in purpose and mission - that of caring for the sheep according to the context.

Jesus being one with the Father does not make him God anymore than us being one with the Son and the Father makes us 'God' nor 'Christ'.

And I am no longer in the world, but they are in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, keep them in your name, which you have given me, that they may be one, even as we are one. . . . “I do not ask for these only, but also for those who will believe in me through their word, that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that you have sent me. The glory that you have given me I have given to them, that they may be one even as we are one, I in them and you in me, that they may become perfectly one, so that the world may know that you sent me and loved them even as you loved me. . . . I made known to them your name, and I will continue to make it known, that the love with which you have loved me may be in them, and I in them.” [John 17:11, 20-23,26]
 
Since Jesus the Son is part of the triune Godhead, “Son of God” means that Jesus is a part of the Godhead.

It’s one thing to show from Scripture that Jesus possesses divine attributes; it’s still another to demonstrate that Jesus actually claimed to be God. If Jesus never affirmed His deity, then the evidence presented so far would be suspect. Christians could be charged with misinterpreting Scripture, and the New Testament authors with misunderstanding Jesus’ identity and mission. On the other hand, if Jesus did claim to be God, and if the Bible supports this claim by demonstrating He possesses attributes of deity, then surely we have sufficient evidence that Jesus is God.

Once again, our evidence rests on the proven historical reliability of the Bible, which supports the Bible’s claim that it’s divinely inspired and inerrant. If the Bible is God’s Word, then not only what the authors of Scripture say about Jesus must be true, but what Jesus Himself says must also be true. And Jesus does claim divine status in numerous ways.

Jesus makes several explicit statements concerning His deity: “I and My Father are one” (John 10:30); “If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; and from now on you know Him and have seen Him. … He who has seen Me has seen the Father” (John 14:7, 9).

In Mark 14:60–64 (see Matt. 26:63–66), Jesus is questioned by Caiaphas, the high priest. In response to Caiaphas’s question as to whether Jesus was the “Christ, the Son of the Blessed,” Jesus acknowledged His deity by stating “I am.” Caiaphas had no doubt that Jesus was making such a claim. He referred to it as blasphemy, and the rest of the religious leaders agreed by condemning Jesus to death. Caiaphas even ripped his clothes, a customary reaction upon hearing blasphemy, which Jesus’ claim to be equal with the Father was to the high priest. According to Jewish law, blasphemy was a capital offense punishable by stoning. In fact, this charge provided the Jews with their only legal excuse to have Jesus crucified. (Compare this with John 5:16–18, where the Jews were seeking to kill Jesus because He was “making Himself equal with God.”

Still another direct claim to deity is found in John 8:56–58. Speaking to the Jews, Jesus said, “Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad … before Abraham was, I AM.” If we compare this passage with Exodus 3:13–15, we see that the phrase “I AM” in John 8:58 is a claim by Christ to be the Yahweh of the Old Testament. In Exodus 3:14, “I AM” is the divine name Yahweh, by which God revealed Himself to Moses at the burning bush. It emphasizes God’s eternal self-existence. Thus in John 8:58, Jesus is saying more than the fact that He existed prior to Abraham. It is a distinct claim to be God, the one and only. Once again, it is evident that the Jews understood this claim. In verse 59, we read that they picked up stones to throw at Him for what they considered to be His blasphemous self-affirmation.

In many other direct ways, Jesus claimed to be God. He said He was “Lord even of the Sabbath” (Matt. 12:8). Who but God could be this? He tells a paralyzed man that his “sins are forgiven” (Mark 2:5). Who but God can forgive sins? Jesus said to the multitudes in His famous Sermon on the Mount, “You have heard that the ancients were told … but I say to you …” (Matt. 5:21, 27, 31, 33, 38, 43, 44, NASV). Who but God could speak with such finality, with such authority? In Matthew 23:34, Jesus says, “I am sending you prophets and wise men” (NASV). Who but God can do this?

In addition to these claims to deity, there is other evidence to consider. For instance, Jesus claimed to have God’s authority. Whereas other religious leaders pointed men away from themselves and to their respective gods, referring to themselves as mere spokesmen, Jesus referred to Himself as the very source of authority and truth (Matt. 28:18; John 14:6).
Jesus also equated people’s attitudes about Himself with their attitudes toward God. He said that to know Him is to know God (John 8:19), to see Him is to see God (John 12:45), to believe in Him is to believe in God (John 12:44), and to hate Him is to hate God (John 15:23).

The titles “Son of Man” and “Son of God,” which indicate deity, were taken by Jesus as applying to Him. “Son of Man” frequently occurs in the Old Testament (see Dan. 7:13–14). By the time of Christ, it had tremendous messianic significance. And the Messiah was believed to be divine, as Isaiah 9:6 makes clear, where we read that the Messiah is called “Wonderful Counselor” (referring to the Messiah as a supernatural counselor) and “Mighty God” (designating Yahweh). By taking the title “Son of Man” for Himself, Jesus declared His deity, as the Jews recognized (see Matt. 26:64–65; Luke 22:69–71).

Although, in the Old Testament, the title “Son of God” is applied to angels, Adam, and the Hebrew nation, it denotes deity in the New Testament. In Matthew 26:63–65, Jesus accepted the title when the high priest applied it to Him in a messianic sense. Once again, the Jewish reaction to His claim demonstrates that they understood Jesus to be calling Himself God.

Jesus also used the “Son of God” title to underscore His special union with God the Father (John 3:16). Moreover, the repeated use of son with father may be alluding to Jesus’ equality with the Father in the Godhead. Since Jesus the Son is part of the triune Godhead, “Son of God” likely means that Jesus is a part of the Godhead.


Dan Story, Defending Your Faith
 
@Aeliana

I have come into the light and now since I have become enlightened look at it this way “Person of Christ”

The language in which Our Lord’s intrinsic Deity is expressed, for example, is probably as strong as any that could be devised. Paul does not say simply, “He was God.”

He says, “He was in the form of God,” employing a turn of speech which throws emphasis upon Our Lord’s possession of the specific quality of God. “Form” is a term which expresses the sum of those characterizing qualities which make a thing the precise thing that it is.

And “the form of God” is the sum of the characteristics which make the being we call “God,” specifically God, rather than some other being—an angel, say, or a man. When Our Lord is said to be in “the form of God,” therefore, He is declared, in the most express manner possible, to be all that God is, to possess the whole fullness of attributes which make God God. To be part of the Trinity.
 
Your right. Most of the time I already believe what ever I quote, it's just easier to let them say it. Like this.

Choice of words is very important to me. I once did the same things. Even defended what others wrote. However, I began extensively debates others that did the same things, I soon realized they didn't really understand what others had said. I got rather good at point out contradictions in what was published and others had claimed. When I pressed others on what they quoted, they usually just said something along the lines of "I don't believe that".

Well. The follow up question is always "Isn't that what it says"?

Correct a wise man and he will love you for it. I try to live by these words I learned from the book of Proverbs.
 
Choice of words is very important to me. I once did the same things. Even defended what others wrote. However, I began extensively debates others that did the same things, I soon realized they didn't really understand what others had said. I got rather good at point out contradictions in what was published and others had claimed. When I pressed others on what they quoted, they usually just said something along the lines of "I don't believe that".

Well. The follow up question is always "Isn't that what it says"?

Correct a wise man and he will love you for it. I try to live by these words I learned from the book of Proverbs.
i'm trying to be nicer in discussions with other Christians. I used to treat people's responses more like an affront rather than a step in learning. However, I'm not as friendly toward those who come to simply push a non-Christian view on others. Just hope to recognize people who are questioning a doctrine compared to someone pushing a bad doctrine -- or egregious view.
 
i'm trying to be nicer in discussions with other Christians. I used to treat people's responses more like an affront rather than a step in learning. However, I'm not as friendly toward those who come to simply push a non-Christian view on others. Just hope to recognize people who are questioning a doctrine compared to someone pushing a bad doctrine -- or egregious view.
I have noticed a much calmer atmosphere here lately. It makes it more enjoyable.
 
Christians also know that God has a Son. That does not mean there just was another human that walked the earth. To deny the divinity of Christ is to deny the Son.
How many sons does the Bible say God has? More than one. So "Jesus is the Son of God while others are also the Sons of God" isn't an argument that logically follows to a "God the Son" conclusion.
 
How many sons does the Bible say God has? More than one. So "Jesus is the Son of God while others are also the Sons of God" isn't an argument that logically follows to a "God the Son" conclusion.
Only begotten doesn't mean that anything to you. Again you believe you are just like Christ when you're nothing like Him.

I like it when you Unitarian pretends start comparing yourselves to Jesus. You just keep proving over and over again that you're just pretenders.
 
Only begotten doesn't mean that anything to you. Again you believe you are just like Christ when you're nothing like Him.

I like it when you Unitarian pretends start comparing yourselves to Jesus. You just keep proving over and over again that you're just pretenders.
Yes, Jesus is God's begotten Son. It's nice to see you say that. So Jesus is begotten? Tell me more.
 
How many sons does the Bible say God has? More than one. So "Jesus is the Son of God while others are also the Sons of God" isn't an argument that logically follows to a "God the Son" conclusion.
Do I have to check again? John 3:16 speaks of Jesus as the only (and unique) Son. Oops. you misrepresent things again. We see John 1:18 where Jesus is the only God who is in the bosom of God. The other Greek option is he is God's unique and only Son. You keep forgetting your arguments from other times Son of God is mentioned about Jesus. You still have a chance to repent.
 
Do I have to check again? John 3:16 speaks of Jesus as the only (and unique) Son. Oops. you misrepresent things again. We see John 1:18 where Jesus is the only God who is in the bosom of God. The other Greek option is he is God's unique and only Son. You keep forgetting your arguments from other times Son of God is mentioned about Jesus. You still have a chance to repent.
Jesus is begotten offspring as dozens of Bibles and the Greek manuscripts say. Bible basics 101. That's Sunday school stuff kids know. Do you really want to challenge Scripture, dozens of Scholars, and the world of Christendom on the point of Jesus having a beginning point? He's not eternal nor even called eternal in the Bible.
 
Jesus is begotten offspring as dozens of Bibles and the Greek manuscripts say. Bible basics 101. That's Sunday school stuff kids know. Do you really want to challenge Scripture, dozens of Scholars, and the world of Christendom on the point of Jesus having a beginning point? He's not eternal nor even called eternal in the Bible.
Jesus is the one and only Son of God. There is no other who is in the bosom of the Father. It does not contradict anything that he has pre-existence with God so I do not know why you reject Jesus. You are half-right though since Jesus is incarnate and therefore in bodily form has a beginning. He also is shown to be eternal in JOhn 17:5 or he could not be restored with the glory he had before.
 
Jesus is the one and only Son of God. There is no other who is in the bosom of the Father. It does not contradict anything that he has pre-existence with God so I do not know why you reject Jesus. You are half-right though since Jesus is incarnate and therefore in bodily form has a beginning. He also is shown to be eternal in JOhn 17:5 or he could not be restored with the glory he had before.
Ok, the word begotten in the Greek can also refer to offspring. Whether or not you agree with the definition is your choice, but it's a very common and honest way to translate the Bible about Jesus being created,.

So what does it mean to you that Jesus was in God's chest? Interested to know what you say it means.
 
Ok, the word begotten in the Greek can also refer to offspring. Whether or not you agree with the definition is your choice, but it's a very common and honest way to translate the Bible about Jesus being created,.

So what does it mean to you that Jesus was in God's chest? Interested to know what you say it means.
what does it matter? You disregard the divinity of Christ at all opportunity to deny him. It means being right there at God's waist. Man in created in the image of God and thus it is not wrong to point out this closeness in his pre-existence.
Anyhow the Greek text showing him specifically as God who is the the bosom of God should be clear enough. You do not have to check little details to understand that.
 
what does it matter? You disregard the divinity of Christ at all opportunity to deny him.
I do confess with my mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe with all of my heart that God raised him from the dead. I actually am a Christian and don't deny Jesus like you and some others say I do. I am sure you don't either, but I think we just understand the wording of the Bible different ways. That's really the bottom line about it.
 
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