All Claims of The Son's Deity

[Angelo]

Calm down.

• To provoke thought: Jesus used this question to challenge the young man to think more deeply about who Jesus is and what his own words implied. It was a way to make him confront the idea of Jesus' divinity.
• To emphasize God's perfection: The statement underscores that all goodness originates from God and that no one else is inherently good apart from Him.
• To direct him to God's law: Jesus then followed this by mentioning the commandments, showing the path to righteousness and guiding the man toward the divine law of God.
• Not a denial: This was not a denial of Jesus' own goodness. Instead, it was a way for him to fully reveal his divine nature by pointing to God as the ultimate source of all goodness.

Thus, Jesus’ question to the man is designed not to deny His deity, but rather to draw the man to recognize Christ’s divine identity as God. Such an interpretation is substantiated by passages such as John 10:11 wherein Jesus declares Himself to be “the good shepherd.” Similarly in John 8:46, Jesus asks, “Can any of you prove me guilty of sin?” Of course the answer is "no." Jesus was “without sin” (Hebrews 4:15), holy and undefiled (Hebrews 7:26), the only One who “knew no sin” (2 Corinthians 5:21).
Got?

“We may note in passing that He was never regarded as a mere moral teacher. He did not produce that effect on any of the people who actually met Him. He produced mainly three effects—Hatred—Terror—Adoration. There was no trace of people expressing mild approval.”—C.S. Lewis, Oxford and Cambridge professor and former agnostic (1898–1963)

“I know men and I tell you that Jesus Christ is no mere man. Between him and every other person in the world there is no possible term of comparison.”—Napoleon Bonaparte, French Emperor (1769–1821)

“Why don’t the names of Buddha, Mohammed, Confucius offend people? The reason is that these others didn’t claim to be God, but Jesus did.”—Josh McDowell, Christian Evangelist and Apologist

“He possessed neither wealth nor influence. His relatives were inconspicuous, and had neither training nor formal education. In infancy He startled a king; in childhood He puzzled doctors; in manhood He ruled the course of nature, walked upon the billows as if pavement, and hushed the sea to sleep. He healed the multitudes without medicine and made no charge for His service. The names of the past proud statesmen of Greece and Rome have come and gone. The names of the past scientists, philosophers, and theologians have come and gone; but the name of this Man abounds more and more. Though time has spread nineteen hundred years between the people of this generation and the scene of His crucifixion, yet He still lives, Herod could not destroy Him, and the grave could not hold Him.”—from “The Incomparable Christ”

Summary: Jesus was more than human. In fact, he was human and divine at the same time—the Son of God. He is the Creator who entered his creation.

 

[civic]

“We may note in passing that He was never regarded as a mere moral teacher. He did not produce that effect on any of the people who actually met Him. He produced mainly three effects—Hatred—Terror—Adoration. There was no trace of people expressing mild approval.”—C.S. Lewis, Oxford and Cambridge professor and former agnostic (1898–1963)

“I know men and I tell you that Jesus Christ is no mere man. Between him and every other person in the world there is no possible term of comparison.”—Napoleon Bonaparte, French Emperor (1769–1821)

“Why don’t the names of Buddha, Mohammed, Confucius offend people? The reason is that these others didn’t claim to be God, but Jesus did.”—Josh McDowell, Christian Evangelist and Apologist

“He possessed neither wealth nor influence. His relatives were inconspicuous, and had neither training nor formal education. In infancy He startled a king; in childhood He puzzled doctors; in manhood He ruled the course of nature, walked upon the billows as if pavement, and hushed the sea to sleep. He healed the multitudes without medicine and made no charge for His service. The names of the past proud statesmen of Greece and Rome have come and gone. The names of the past scientists, philosophers, and theologians have come and gone; but the name of this Man abounds more and more. Though time has spread nineteen hundred years between the people of this generation and the scene of His crucifixion, yet He still lives, Herod could not destroy Him, and the grave could not hold Him.”—from “The Incomparable Christ”

Summary: Jesus was more than human. In fact, he was human and divine at the same time—the Son of God. He is the Creator who entered his creation.

And all Gods children said: AMEN !!!

 

[amazing grace]

Calm down.

• To provoke thought: Jesus used this question to challenge the young man to think more deeply about who Jesus is and what his own words implied. It was a way to make him confront the idea of Jesus' divinity.
• To emphasize God's perfection: The statement underscores that all goodness originates from God and that no one else is inherently good apart from Him.
• To direct him to God's law: Jesus then followed this by mentioning the commandments, showing the path to righteousness and guiding the man toward the divine law of God.
• Not a denial: This was not a denial of Jesus' own goodness. Instead, it was a way for him to fully reveal his divine nature by pointing to God as the ultimate source of all goodness.

Oh, I'm calm I just wanted you to see clearly what the scripture quoted Jesus as saying.

• I disagree that it was a way to make him confront the idea of Jesus' divinity - If Jesus wanted the young man to know he was God; why not just tell him?
• I agree that God's perfection and goodness are emphasized (I believe I said that) and that goodness originates from God his Father and no one else is inherently good apart from him I believe "I agreed that Jesus is emphasizing the goodness of God his Father - perfect, inherent goodness)"
• Jesus mentions the law because the young man asked "What must I do to inherit eternal life?"
• Of course, it was not a denial of Jesus own goodness but to elaborate that only God alone was inherently good - God was the source of goodness. If it was a way for him to fully reveal his divine nature; his deity; his being God - why not just say so?

Thus, Jesus’ question to the man is designed not to deny His deity, but rather to draw the man to recognize Christ’s divine identity as God.

Why not just tell him?

Such an interpretation is substantiated by passages such as John 10:11 wherein Jesus declares Himself to be “the good shepherd.”

Yes, Jesus was the good shepherd.

Similarly in John 8:46, Jesus asks, “Can any of you prove me guilty of sin?” Of course the answer is "no." Jesus was “without sin” (Hebrews 4:15), holy and undefiled (Hebrews 7:26), the only One who “knew no sin” (2 Corinthians 5:21). Got?

Of course, they could not prove him guilty of sin for he spoke the truth . . . "but now you seek to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God." (v40) . . . But because I tell you the truth, you do not believe me. Which of you convicts me of sin? If I tell the truth, why do you not believe me. (45,46)
Correct: Since then we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus, the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession. For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin. [Heb. 4:14,15] If he is God - he has not been tempted as we are . . .
Yep, Jesus, our high priest was holy, innocent, unstained . . .the Lamb of God blemish or spot [1 Peter 1:19]
Yep, God was in Christ reconciling the world unto himself ----- therefore we are ambassadors for Christ imploring others to be reconciled to God - For our sake God made Jesus to be sin who knew no sin so that in Christ we might become the righteousness of God . . . . (2 Corinthians 5:19-21; paraphrased)

 

[Aeliana]

Oh, I'm calm I just wanted you to see clearly what the scripture quoted Jesus as saying.

• I disagree that it was a way to make him confront the idea of Jesus' divinity - If Jesus wanted the young man to know he was God; why not just tell him?
• I agree that God's perfection and goodness are emphasized (I believe I said that) and that goodness originates from God his Father and no one else is inherently good apart from him I believe "I agreed that Jesus is emphasizing the goodness of God his Father - perfect, inherent goodness)"
• Jesus mentions the law because the young man asked "What must I do to inherit eternal life?"
• Of course, it was not a denial of Jesus own goodness but to elaborate that only God alone was inherently good - God was the source of goodness. If it was a way for him to fully reveal his divine nature; his deity; his being God - why not just say so?

Why not just tell him?

Yes, Jesus was the good shepherd.

Of course, they could not prove him guilty of sin for he spoke the truth . . . "but now you seek to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God." (v40) . . . But because I tell you the truth, you do not believe me. Which of you convicts me of sin? If I tell the truth, why do you not believe me. (45,46)
Correct: Since then we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus, the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession. For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin. [Heb. 4:14,15] If he is God - he has not been tempted as we are . . .
Yep, Jesus, our high priest was holy, innocent, unstained . . .the Lamb of God blemish or spot [1 Peter 1:19]
Yep, God was in Christ reconciling the world unto himself ----- therefore we are ambassadors for Christ imploring others to be reconciled to God - For our sake God made Jesus to be sin who knew no sin so that in Christ we might become the righteousness of God . . . . (2 Corinthians 5:19-21; paraphrased)

Knowing Jesus is God in us is so calming.

The phrase "Jesus is God in us" reflects our Christian belief that while Jesus is fully divine, his presence in the life of a believer is made real through the Holy Spirit. Mainstream theology understands this through the three distinct persons of God: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

The Trinity: One God, three persons

Jesus (the Son) came to Earth as "God with us" (Immanuel) in human form to bring salvation, living and dwelling among people. His ministry is seen as a fulfillment of God's promises to live among his people.

The Holy Spirit is the third person of the Trinity. Before his ascension, Jesus promised his followers that he would send a "Helper" to be with them forever.

 

[civic]

Knowing Jesus is God in us is so calming.

The phrase "Jesus is God in us" reflects our Christian belief that while Jesus is fully divine, his presence in the life of a believer is made real through the Holy Spirit. Mainstream theology understands this through the three distinct persons of God: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

The Trinity: One God, three persons

Jesus (the Son) came to Earth as "God with us" (Immanuel) in human form to bring salvation, living and dwelling among people. His ministry is seen as a fulfillment of God's promises to live among his people.

The Holy Spirit is the third person of the Trinity. Before his ascension, Jesus promised his followers that he would send a "Helper" to be with them forever.

Yes the Triune God in the believer- We are the temple of God where He dwells in us.

The Holy Spirit
the spirit of God
the spirit of Christ
Christ in you

notice there is no spirit of man dwelling in anyone in scripture. its God who dwells in man making us the temple of the Lord/God.

The Tri-Unity of God at work in the believer. The Holy Spirit, God the Father and Christ at work in believers. There are lots of passages showing the Trinity at work in the believer such as Ephesians 1 and Romans 8 just to name a couple of great passages.

Jesus and The Apostles in their teachings reveal the Father, Son and Holy Spirit working together in the believers life. They are distinct Persons within the One God.


Ephesians 1:3-14
3 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ. 4 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love 5 he predestined us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will— 6 to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves. 7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God’s grace 8 that he lavished on us. With all wisdom and understanding, 9 he made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure, which he purposed in Christ, 10 to be put into effect when the times reach their fulfillment—to bring unity to all things in heaven and on earth under Christ.11 In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will, 12 in order that we, who were the first to put our hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory. 13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.


1-Paul gives praise, glory and honor to the Father in 1:3-6
2-Paul gives praise, glory and honor to the Son in 1:7-12
3-Paul gives praise, glory and honor to the Holy Spirit in 1:13-14

1-Salvation is Assigned by the Father
2-Salvation is Achieved through the Son
3-Salvation is Active from the Holy Spirit

Hence once again we see the Trinity in Action in the life of the believer!

John 15:26-27
26 "When the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, that is the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify about Me, 27and you will testify also, because you have been with Me from the beginning.


John 16:5-8
"But now I am going to Him who sent Me; and none of you asks Me, Where are You going?' 6"But because I have said these things to you, sorrow has filled your heart. 7"But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I go,I will send Him to you. 8"And He, when He comes, will convictthe world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment;


John 16:13-15
13 "But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come. 14"He will glorify Me, for He will take of Mine and will disclose it to you. 15"All things that the Fatherhas are Mine; therefore I said that He takes of Mine and will disclose it to you.

Matthew 3:16-17
16 And when Jesus was baptized, immediately he went up from the water, and behold, the heavens were opened to him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and coming to rest on him; 17 and behold, a voice from heaven said, "This is mybeloved Son, with whom I am well pleased."

Below we see the One Name singular and the Plurality of Persons that one is to be baptized in as a disciple .

Matthew 28:19-20
19 "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Fatherand the Son and the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age. "
Now below Paul will lay out our triune God below in these passages.


Romans 8:9-11
9 However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him. 10 If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.

Romans 8:14-17
14 For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. 15 For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, "Abba! Father!" 16 The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God, 17 and if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellowheirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him so that we may also be glorified with Him.

Rom 8:26-36
26 In the same way the Spirit also helps our weakness; for we do not know how to pray as we should, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words; 27 and He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.

28 And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose. 29 For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; 30 and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.

31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us? 32 He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him over for us all, how will He not also with Him freely give us all things? 33 Who will bring a charge against God's elect? God is the one who justifies; 34 who is the one who condemns? Christ Jesus is He who died, yes, rather who was raised, who is at the right hand of God, who also intercedes for us. 35 Who will separate us from the love of Christ? Will tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

Rom 14:17-18
17 for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. 18 For he who in this way serves Christ is acceptable to God and approved by men.

1 Cor 2:10-16
10 For to us God revealed them through the Spirit; for the Spirit searches all things, even the depths of God. 11 For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so the thoughts of God no one knows except the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may know the things freely given to us by God, 13 which things we also speak, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the Spirit, combining spiritual thoughts with spiritual words.

14 But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised. 15 But he who is spiritual appraises all things, yet he himself is appraised by no one. 16 For WHO HAS KNOWN THE MIND OF THE LORD, THAT HE WILL INSTRUCT HIM? But we have the mind of Christ.

1 Cor 12:3-6
3 Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God says, "Jesus is accursed"; and no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit.

4 Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5 And there are varieties of ministries, and the same Lord. 6 There are varieties of effects, but the same God who works all things in all persons.

Titus 3:4-7
4 But when the kindness of God our Savior and His love for mankind appeared, 5 He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit, 6 whom He poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 that being justified by His grace we might be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.


Conclusion: Salvation is administered and assigned by the Father, accomplished and achieved through the Son and applied and activated by the Holy Spirit. We see the Trinity, the Tri-Unity of God in action in the Redemption of the believer.

AMEN !!!!

hope this helps !!!

 

[amazing grace]

Jesus is saying He is Good and therefor God. The "context" clearly reveals Jesus is Good. Its one of the most clear passages of the Sons Deity in all of Scripture.

Mark 10:13-27
13 People were bringing little children to Jesus to have him touch them, but the disciples rebuked them. 14 When Jesus saw this, he was indignant. He said to them, "Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these. 15 I tell you the truth, anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it." 16 And he took the children in his arms, put his hands on them and blessed them.

17 As He was setting out on a journey, a man ran up to Him and knelt before Him, and asked Him, "Good Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?" 18 And Jesus said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good except God alone. 19 "You know the commandments, ' DO NOT MURDER, DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, DO NOT STEAL, DO NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS, Do not defraud, HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER.'" 20 And he said to Him, "Teacher, I have kept all these things from my youth up." 21 Looking at him, Jesus felt a love for him and said to him, "One thing you lack: go and sell all you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me." 22 But at these words he was saddened, and he went away grieving, for he was one who owned much property.

23 And Jesus, looking around, * said to His disciples, "A How hard it will be for those who are wealthy to enter the kingdom of God!" 24 The disciples A were amazed at His words. But Jesus * answered again and said to them, "Children, how hard it is to enter the kingdom of God! 25 “It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God." 26 They were even more astonished and said to Him, " Then who can be saved?" 27 Looking at them, Jesus said, "With people it is impossible, but not with God; for all things are possible with God."

Jesus point in His questioning of the ruler was rhetorical in nature. Do you know who you are calling good? Only God is good. He was saying to the ruler "Do you know who I Am and who you are speaking too? If you read on it becomes obvious for Jesus turned him away from gaining eternal life. He knew what was in his heart and keeping him away from the kingdom. Only God knows what is in mans heart and can allow a person into His Kingdom. Jesus was clearly claiming to be God in this passage.

No prophet, apostle or teacher has ever talked in this presumptuous way in which Jesus did in the gospels and especially in this passage in the synoptic gospel. The young ruler runs up to Jesus kneels to Him in worship and asks Him how can I obtain eternal life? Jesus answers back and said come "Follow ME!" Do you see what Jesus is claiming? He does not say, these are the teachings that God has given me or follow these rules and you will get into heaven. He did not say to follow God or submit to God. Jesus tells the man to follow Me! Only God has that prerogative.

He was saying indirectly to the ruler, know that whom you are speaking to is God. He was letting the young ruler understand who he was talking to and addressing as good. Look at it this way, Is He saying He is not good, and therefore not God? Or is He saying that He is good, and the reason this man can call Him good is because He is God? I opt for the second statement.

Let’s examine the context of the passage and what is going on when this man approaches Jesus. He says why do you call me good and points out to the man that only God is good. The man is unaware of His identity which Jesus who knew men’s hearts was aware of with the young ruler. This man thought of Jesus as just a mere man and not the Son of God. Jesus response was not one of denying His own sinlessness or deity. The context clearly shows just the opposite to be true. Jesus claims absolute authority over the young ruler by asking him to come and Follow Me. To call Him "good teacher" you better recognize who you are speaking to and this is exactly the point Jesus was getting across to the young ruler. Jesus is eternal life and the man was unaware of this truth which is rather obvious by his questions.

How does one obtain eternal life? Jesus confronted him with His Lordship when He said come and follow Me. Jesus confronted the man's sin of covetousness. It was a sin of indulgence and materialism. He was indifferent to people who were poor and in need. So Jesus gave him the ultimate test, would he obey His Lordship? The antis and non trins get all hung up on who is good and cannot see past the plank in their own eyes to see what one must do to be saved. They're still in an unbelieving state and miss out on eternal life from its very source, Jesus. Rather sad indeed.

If we further examine the context of the question asked by the young ruler in verse 13 we read; people were bringing little children to Jesus to have him touch them, but the disciples rebuked them. 14 When Jesus saw this, He was indignant. He said to them, "Let the little children come to Me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these. 15 I tell you the truth, anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it." 16 And He took the children in His arms, put His hands on them and blessed them. 17 As Jesus started on his way, a man ran up to Him and fell on his knees before Him. "Good teacher," he asked, "what must I do to inherit eternal life?" 18 "Why do you call Me good?" Jesus answered. Let’s see what question was asked of Jesus. How can I get eternal life?" is the question. "Follow ME!" is the answer that he gets from Jesus. Do you see what He is claiming? He does NOT say, these are the teachings that God has given Me. Follow these rules and you will get to heaven. He did not say, "follow God or submit to God", but he said "Follow ME!". Jesus is Lord and had the authority to ask of mankind, Follow Me!

Did you not read the post you responded to? I have commented on this section of scripture but I will repeat for your sake.
"Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life? ---- Why are you calling me good there is none good save God alone. (God is inherently good and the source of all goodness) Then Jesus ask him if he knew about the commandments. The young man said he had kept those commandments from birth and Jesus loved him. Jesus told him he lacked one thing to give up all his worldly goods - sell them and give to the poor so he would have treasure in heaven, i.e. give up everything and follow me. Disheartened the man walked away. the only way to God the Father is through the Son . . . No one comes to the Father except by me. [John 14:6b]

John 1:6-8
John. 7 He came as a witness, to testify about the Light, so that all might believe through Him. 8 He was not the Light, but he came to testify about the Light.

Yes, John the Baptist, the man sent from God.

John 5:39-40
39 " You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me; 40 and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life.

. . . But I know that you do not have the love of God within you. I have come in my Father's name, and you do not receive me. If another comes in his own name, you will receive him. How can you believe when you receive glory from one another and do not seek the glory that comes from the only God. Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father. There is one who accuses you: Moses, on whom you have set your hope. For if you believed Moses you would believe me; for he wrote of me. But if you do not believe his writings how will you believe my words? [John 5:42-47] Ever read Deuteronomy 18 where Moses writes of the prophet God will raise up?

John 8:14
" Even if I testify about Myself, My testimony is true, for I know where I came from and where I am going; but you do not know where I come from or where I am going.
John 8:18-20
18 I am one who testifies for Myself; My other witness is the Father, who sent Me."

19 Then they asked Him, "Where is your father?"

"You do not know Me or my Father," Jesus replied. "If you knew Me, you would know My Father also."

You judge according to the flesh; I judge no one. Yet even if I do judge, my judgement is true, for it is not I alone who judge, but I and the Father who sent me. In your Law it is written that the testimony of two people is true. I am the one who bears witness about myself, and the Father who sent me bears witness about me. [John 8:15-18] Two people bear witness: Jesus bears witness and the Father bears witness ---- does that equal two Gods? Jesus, aka God and the Father, aka God?

Luke 24:27
Then beginning with Moses and with all the prophets, He explained to them the things concerning Himself in all the Scriptures.

Luke 24:44-45
44 Now He said to them, " These are My words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things which are written about Me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled." 45 Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures,

Its all about Jesus from beginning to end. He is the First and the Last, the Alpha and Omega ! He is the Great I Am. The Good Shepherd indeed ! He is the very source of life itself which includes eternal life- John 1:4. In Him was life !

conclusion: the "context" always disproves unitarianism.

hope this helps,

On the road to Emmaus Jesus meets two disciples talking about him and he walked with them asked them about the conversation they were having. . . . “Are you the only visitor to Jerusalem who does not know the things that have happened there in these days?” And he said to them, “What things?” And they said to him, “Concerning Jesus of Nazareth, a man who was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people, and how our chief priests and rulers delivered him up to be condemned to death, and crucified him. But we had hoped that he was the one to redeem Israel. . . . it is now the third day since these things happened. Moreover, some women of our company amazed us. They were at the tomb early in the morning, and when they did not find his body, they came back saying that they had even seen a vision of angels, who said that he was alive. . . .“O foolish ones, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken! Was it not necessary that the Christ should suffer these things and enter into his glory?” And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he interpreted to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning himself. . . .[Luke 24:18-20;21-23;25-27] How did the disciples finally realize who they were talking to - when were their eyes opened? 'When he was at table with them, he took the bread and blessed and broke it' . . .And their eyes were opened and they recognized him. . . . Then they told what had happened on the road, and how he was known to them in the breaking of the bread. . .[Luke 24: 30,31,35] They remembered the last supper when he took the bread and blessed it and broke it and that is how they recognized their Lord. [Matt. 26:26; Mark 14:22; Luke 22:19] No mention Jesus being God . . .

 

[Blessed]

Did you not read the post you responded to? I have commented on this section of scripture but I will repeat for your sake.
"Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life? ---- Why are you calling me good C. (God is inherently good and the source of all goodness) Then Jesus ask him if he knew about the commandments. The young man said he had kept those commandments from birth and Jesus loved him. Jesus told him he lacked one thing to give up all his worldly goods - sell them and give to the poor so he would have treasure in heaven, i.e. give up everything and follow me. Disheartened the man walked away. the only way to God the Father is through the Son . . . No one comes to the Father except by me. [John 14:6b]

Yes, John the Baptist, the man sent from God.

. . . But I know that you do not have the love of God within you. I have come in my Father's name, and you do not receive me. If another comes in his own name, you will receive him. How can you believe when you receive glory from one another and do not seek the glory that comes from the only God. Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father. There is one who accuses you: Moses, on whom you have set your hope. For if you believed Moses you would believe me; for he wrote of me. But if you do not believe his writings how will you believe my words? [John 5:42-47] Ever read Deuteronomy 18 where Moses writes of the prophet God will raise up?

You judge according to the flesh; I judge no one. Yet even if I do judge, my judgement is true, for it is not I alone who judge, but I and the Father who sent me. In your Law it is written that the testimony of two people is true. I am the one who bears witness about myself, and the Father who sent me bears witness about me. [John 8:15-18] Two people bear witness: Jesus bears witness and the Father bears witness ---- does that equal two Gods? Jesus, aka God and the Father, aka God?

On the road to Emmaus Jesus meets two disciples talking about him and he walked with them asked them about the conversation they were having. . . . “Are you the only visitor to Jerusalem who does not know the things that have happened there in these days?” And he said to them, “What things?” And they said to him, “Concerning Jesus of Nazareth, a man who was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people, and how our chief priests and rulers delivered him up to be condemned to death, and crucified him. But we had hoped that he was the one to redeem Israel. . . . it is now the third day since these things happened. Moreover, some women of our company amazed us. They were at the tomb early in the morning, and when they did not find his body, they came back saying that they had even seen a vision of angels, who said that he was alive. . . .“O foolish ones, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken! Was it not necessary that the Christ should suffer these things and enter into his glory?” And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he interpreted to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning himself. . . .[Luke 24:18-20;21-23;25-27] How did the disciples finally realize who they were talking to - when were their eyes opened? 'When he was at table with them, he took the bread and blessed and broke it' . . .And their eyes were opened and they recognized him. . . . Then they told what had happened on the road, and how he was known to them in the breaking of the bread. . .[Luke 24: 30,31,35] They remembered the last supper when he took the bread and blessed it and broke it and that is how they recognized their Lord. [Matt. 26:26; Mark 14:22; Luke 22:19] No mention Jesus being God . . .

This was explained to you:

Post in thread 'All Claims of The Son's Deity'

Today at 5:23 AM

READ THE CONTEXT - It's about the care of the sheep. Jesus says 'No one can take the sheep out of my hand' (v28). . . 'No one can take them out of the Father's hand'.(v29) Jesus and the Father are one in purpose and mission. Now go read John 17 where Jesus prays for us to be one with him and one with the Father . . . same meaning. I believe Jesus also says - my Father is greater than all . . .

WHY CALL ME GOOD?????? If he is telling them he is God - why didn't he accept being addressed as 'Good teacher'?

Correct, Jesus is emphasizing the goodness of God his Father - perfect...

• Lions Mane

• 

 

[Runningman]

I feel like a fool checking the verses you mention. They never say what unitarians hope they say. Revelation 3:14 is rather vague to use to deny Christian doctrine. You are offering novel ideas as if they should suddenly be trusted. But you cannot make a solid argument against the pre-existence of Christ or passages diretcly showing his divinity. It is pure danger for you to create new doctrine and think somehow you have exposed some grand deception that all Christians fell for.
Of course I do hope you return to true Christianity instead of unitarianism. It is so insane to make a new claim like you are doing -- especially with lack of real support for it. If it was something that you could reasonably argue, that would be a different story. But your interpretations are way far off.

Cheap tricks like pretending verses don't say what they say just so you can score points with your fellow cultists isn't very classy.

Revelation 3:14 explicitly, directly, and clearly states Jesus is the beginning of the creation of God. Jesus is created. Now you know beyond a shadow of a doubt that Jesus was both created and isn't God.

Revelation 3
14“And to the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write,
‘These things says the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God:

 

[FreeInChrist]

Yes the Triune God in the believer- We are the temple of God where He dwells in us.

The Holy Spirit
the spirit of God
the spirit of Christ
Christ in you

notice there is no spirit of man dwelling in anyone in scripture. its God who dwells in man making us the temple of the Lord/God.

The Tri-Unity of God at work in the believer. The Holy Spirit, God the Father and Christ at work in believers. There are lots of passages showing the Trinity at work in the believer such as Ephesians 1 and Romans 8 just to name a couple of great passages.

Jesus and The Apostles in their teachings reveal the Father, Son and Holy Spirit working together in the believers life. They are distinct Persons within the One God.


Ephesians 1:3-14
3 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ. 4 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love 5 he predestined us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will— 6 to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves. 7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God’s grace 8 that he lavished on us. With all wisdom and understanding, 9 he made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure, which he purposed in Christ, 10 to be put into effect when the times reach their fulfillment—to bring unity to all things in heaven and on earth under Christ.11 In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will, 12 in order that we, who were the first to put our hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory. 13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.


1-Paul gives praise, glory and honor to the Father in 1:3-6
2-Paul gives praise, glory and honor to the Son in 1:7-12
3-Paul gives praise, glory and honor to the Holy Spirit in 1:13-14

1-Salvation is Assigned by the Father
2-Salvation is Achieved through the Son
3-Salvation is Active from the Holy Spirit

Hence once again we see the Trinity in Action in the life of the believer!

John 15:26-27
26 "When the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, that is the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify about Me, 27and you will testify also, because you have been with Me from the beginning.


John 16:5-8
"But now I am going to Him who sent Me; and none of you asks Me, Where are You going?' 6"But because I have said these things to you, sorrow has filled your heart. 7"But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I go,I will send Him to you. 8"And He, when He comes, will convictthe world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment;


John 16:13-15
13 "But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come. 14"He will glorify Me, for He will take of Mine and will disclose it to you. 15"All things that the Fatherhas are Mine; therefore I said that He takes of Mine and will disclose it to you.

Matthew 3:16-17
16 And when Jesus was baptized, immediately he went up from the water, and behold, the heavens were opened to him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and coming to rest on him; 17 and behold, a voice from heaven said, "This is mybeloved Son, with whom I am well pleased."

Below we see the One Name singular and the Plurality of Persons that one is to be baptized in as a disciple .

Matthew 28:19-20
19 "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Fatherand the Son and the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age. "
Now below Paul will lay out our triune God below in these passages.


Romans 8:9-11
9 However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him. 10 If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.

Romans 8:14-17
14 For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. 15 For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, "Abba! Father!" 16 The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God, 17 and if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellowheirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him so that we may also be glorified with Him.

Rom 8:26-36
26 In the same way the Spirit also helps our weakness; for we do not know how to pray as we should, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words; 27 and He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.

28 And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose. 29 For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; 30 and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.

31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us? 32 He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him over for us all, how will He not also with Him freely give us all things? 33 Who will bring a charge against God's elect? God is the one who justifies; 34 who is the one who condemns? Christ Jesus is He who died, yes, rather who was raised, who is at the right hand of God, who also intercedes for us. 35 Who will separate us from the love of Christ? Will tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

Rom 14:17-18
17 for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. 18 For he who in this way serves Christ is acceptable to God and approved by men.

1 Cor 2:10-16
10 For to us God revealed them through the Spirit; for the Spirit searches all things, even the depths of God. 11 For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so the thoughts of God no one knows except the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may know the things freely given to us by God, 13 which things we also speak, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the Spirit, combining spiritual thoughts with spiritual words.

14 But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised. 15 But he who is spiritual appraises all things, yet he himself is appraised by no one. 16 For WHO HAS KNOWN THE MIND OF THE LORD, THAT HE WILL INSTRUCT HIM? But we have the mind of Christ.

1 Cor 12:3-6
3 Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God says, "Jesus is accursed"; and no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit.

4 Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5 And there are varieties of ministries, and the same Lord. 6 There are varieties of effects, but the same God who works all things in all persons.

Titus 3:4-7
4 But when the kindness of God our Savior and His love for mankind appeared, 5 He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit, 6 whom He poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 that being justified by His grace we might be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.


Conclusion: Salvation is administered and assigned by the Father, accomplished and achieved through the Son and applied and activated by the Holy Spirit. We see the Trinity, the Tri-Unity of God in action in the Redemption of the believer.

AMEN !!!!

hope this helps !!!

I love your conclusion.

We see this. We feel this. We understand this.

I just cannot comprehend why all cannot.

Really makes one wonder what the likes of John Calvin and even Martin Luther are going to say to God when they stand in front of him? Or Zwingli for that matter.... among others.

 

[Blessed]

Cheap tricks like pretending verses don't say what they say just so you can score points with your fellow cultists isn't very classy.

Revelation 3:14 explicitly, directly, and clearly states Jesus is the beginning of the creation of God. Jesus is created. Now you know beyond a shadow of a doubt that Jesus was both created and isn't God.

Revelation 3
14“And to the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write,
‘These things says the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God:

Points...We don't need no stinking points. We have the truth.

The Holy Spirit leads and guides. “However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth” John 16:13 . It’s true that a map or GPS can lead you, but no one calls a map “He.” It would have been very easy for Jesus to simply say, “When it comes,” but Jesus called the Holy Spirit “He” more than 15 times. Why would God go to so much trouble to personify His own inherent power to the extent that it possessed emotions, thoughts, and speech independent of Himself?

Because He is talking about the third member of The Trinity.

 

[Angelo]

Points...We don't need no stinking points. We have the truth.

The Holy Spirit leads and guides. “However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth” John 16:13 . It’s true that a map or GPS can lead you, but no one calls a map “He.” It would have been very easy for Jesus to simply say, “When it comes,” but Jesus called the Holy Spirit “He” more than 15 times. Why would God go to so much trouble to personify His own inherent power to the extent that it possessed emotions, thoughts, and speech independent of Himself?

Because He is talking about the third member of The Trinity.

I do have a pointer, The Trinity is in the Bible.

I believe that the name Elohim is compatible with the doctrine of the Trinity and is pointing in that direction.

It is another hint that points to the multipersonal character of God early on in the Scriptures.

Another is found in the Old Testament passage that is quoted in the New Testament more often than any other text—Psalm 110. This psalm has a very strange beginning. The psalmist says, The LORD says to my Lord: Sit at my right hand, until I make your enemies your footstool.

Characteristically, when we see the personal name of God, Yahweh, in the Old Testament, we also see His chief or supreme title, Adonai, associated with it. For instance, Psalm 8 says, “O LORD, our Lord, how majestic is your name in all the earth!” (v. 1a). In the Hebrew, “O LORD, our Lord” reads “O Yahweh, our Adonai”; there is a clear connection between Yahweh and Adonai.

In Psalm 110, however, God is having a conversation with David’s Lord: “The LORD [Yahweh] says to my Lord [Adonai]: Sit at my right hand.…”

The New Testament picks up on this and talks about Jesus simultaneously being David’s son and David’s Lord. This psalm also provides another hint to the multiple dimensions of the being of God when it declares that God’s Son will be a priest forever, an eternal priest after the order of Melchizedek.

 

[FreeInChrist]

Cheap tricks like pretending verses don't say what they say just so you can score points with your fellow cultists isn't very classy.

Revelation 3:14 explicitly, directly, and clearly states Jesus is the beginning of the creation of God. Jesus is created. Now you know beyond a shadow of a doubt that Jesus was both created and isn't God.

Revelation 3
14“And to the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write,
‘These things says the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God:

Ummmmmm. What are you talking about?


Vs 13, He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

Vs 14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;


has zero suggestion that Jesus was created.

Just another attempt to make something seem as if when it is not.

Context
To the Church in Laodicea
13He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. 14 To the angel of the church in Laodicea write: These are the words of the Amen, the faithful and TRUE Witness, the Originator of God's creation. 15I know your deeds; you are neither cold nor hot. How I wish you were one or the other!…
Berean Standard Bible · Download


Cross References the Originator of God's creation.
Colossians 1:15-18
The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. / For in Him all things were created, things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities. All things were created through Him and for Him. / He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together. ...

 

[civic]

Cheap tricks like pretending verses don't say what they say just so you can score points with your fellow cultists isn't very classy.

Revelation 3:14 explicitly, directly, and clearly states Jesus is the beginning of the creation of God. Jesus is created. Now you know beyond a shadow of a doubt that Jesus was both created and isn't God.

Revelation 3
14“And to the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write,
‘These things says the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God:

Scripture clearly states He was with the Father in the Genesis creation account- John 1, John 17, Colossians 1, Hebrews 1, 1 Corinthians 8:6.

How much evidence do you need ?

Your revelation verse proves He was there in the creation account.

next fallacy

hope this helps !!!

 

[civic]

Ummmmmm. What are you talking about?


Vs 13, He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

Vs 14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;


has zero suggestion that Jesus was created.

Just another attempt to make something seem as if when it is not.

Context
To the Church in Laodicea
13He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. 14 To the angel of the church in Laodicea write: These are the words of the Amen, the faithful and TRUE Witness, the Originator of God's creation. 15I know your deeds; you are neither cold nor hot. How I wish you were one or the other!…
Berean Standard Bible · Download


Cross References the Originator of God's creation.
Colossians 1:15-18
The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. / For in Him all things were created, things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities. All things were created through Him and for Him. / He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together. ...

Yes it supports the Trinitarian view and opposes the uni view.

 

[mr.T]

Well if one does not yet understand and and believe the fact that God is a Trinity. "I pity the fool" you been waiting for that one right?

But their is still hope for them.

 

[Blessed]

Well if one does not yet understand and and believe the fact that God is a Trinity. "I pity the fool" you been waiting for that one right?

But their is still hope for them.

I know it was coming

 

[mr.T]

I know it was coming

Well I held off as long as I could.

 

[mikesw]

Yep, now you are trying to change what you have said and this is what you said:

Definitely not what you are claiming you said.
What doesn't make sense is to call him the Son of God who is God.

Kid, we have been over this before. the mention of God works two ways. The designation in the first round is the relationship to the Father and in the second case is the triune sense. Maybe not recognized by the novice eye but is recognized in part because we avoid contradiction in scripture.

Yes, Jesus did say "the Father is working and so am I".
He also said: The works that I do in my Father's name bear witness about me, but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep. . . . “I have shown you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you going to stone me?”
and . . . If I am not doing the works of my Father, then do not believe me; but if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me and I am in the Father. [John 10:25,26,32,37,38]

It would be stupid for Jesus to do works counter to his Father. So you do not have anything beyond that, especially not saying the Father is working through him -- as if reflective of the Holy Spirit temporarily coming upon the prophets of old.

And Peter said: Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a man attested to you by God with mighty works and wonders and signs that God did through him in your midst, as you yourselves know------ [Acts 2:22]

You make no argument here about any metaphysical aspect here. This just means these works testify that Jesus has done miraculous works among them. There is no problem of stating this in human recognizable context.

 

[mikesw]

Cheap tricks like pretending verses don't say what they say just so you can score points with your fellow cultists isn't very classy.

Revelation 3:14 explicitly, directly, and clearly states Jesus is the beginning of the creation of God. Jesus is created. Now you know beyond a shadow of a doubt that Jesus was both created and isn't God.

Revelation 3
14“And to the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write,
‘These things says the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God:

It can only be called a cheap trick by someone who follows failed exegesis. The concept is of first cause not of first one created. You grasp for straws but call them diamonds.
Please write this in to a file or somewhere so you do not repeat the same mistakes over and over again.

 

[mr.T]

Cheap tricks like pretending verses don't say what they say just so you can score points with your fellow cultists isn't very classy.

Revelation 3:14 explicitly, directly, and clearly states Jesus is the beginning of the creation of God. Jesus is created. Now you know beyond a shadow of a doubt that Jesus was both created and isn't God.

Revelation 3
14“And to the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write,
‘These things says the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God:

Trinitarians stay away from Cheap tricks and dirty deeds.