All Claims of The Son's Deity

[Darrell L.]

Almost all of the Scriptures used by those who reject the trinity to portray Jesus as a “lesser god” spring from a basic failure to understand the incarnation. Jesus, God the Son, laid aside or veiled the full dimension of His divinity when He came to earth.

How else could He live as God among men?

God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh Romans 8:3

For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that ye through his poverty might be rich 2 Corinthians 8:9

Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men...
And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross Philippians 2:5–8

We also clearly see that before and after His incarnation, Jesus beams again with undimmed divine glory.

And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was John 17:5

But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honor Hebrews 2:9

If God the Son had not veiled His glory when He came to earth, no man could not have endured His brilliant presence, much less learned from His example.

 

[Lymphatic]

Almost all of the Scriptures used by those who reject the trinity to portray Jesus as a “lesser god” spring from a basic failure to understand the incarnation. Jesus, God the Son, laid aside or veiled the full dimension of His divinity when He came to earth.

How else could He live as God among men?

God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh Romans 8:3

For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that ye through his poverty might be rich 2 Corinthians 8:9

Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men...
And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross Philippians 2:5–8

We also clearly see that before and after His incarnation, Jesus beams again with undimmed divine glory.

And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was John 17:5

But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honor Hebrews 2:9

If God the Son had not veiled His glory when He came to earth, no man could not have endured His brilliant presence, much less learned from His example.

Rejection of the Deity of Christ: Unitarians denies the full divinity of Jesus Christ. Unitarians viewed Christ as an exceptional human being who was given divine authority by God, but they reject the orthodox belief that Christ is God incarnate—fully divine and fully human:

And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, full of grace and truth; we have beheld his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father John 1:14;

9 For in him the whole fulness of deity dwells bodily, 10 and you have come to fulness of life in him, who is the head of all rule and authority. Colossians 2:9–10

Instead, they saw Jesus as a human prophet and teacher who was divinely chosen to lead humanity and serve as a moral example. The same as Islam.

 

[mikesw]

So did Moses. YHWH gave a prophecy of a prophet just like Moses who would speak the words of God without himself being God. Do you know who that prophet like Moses is?

Read and believe Scripture and cease your arguing.

Deuteronomy 16
17Then the LORD said to me, “They have spoken well. 18I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brothers. I will put My words in his mouth, and he will tell them everything I command him. 19And I will hold accountable anyone who does not listen to My words that the prophet speaks in My name. 20But if any prophet dares to speak a message in My name that I have not commanded him to speak, or to speak in the name of other gods, that prophet must be put to death.”

Jesus indeed also came as the Prophet prophesied by Moses. In that role, he was warning Jews of the judgment to come upon them. That does not diminish his divinity within the Godhead. You end up just sticking with proof texts instead of study of scripture.

 

[Runningman]

Jesus indeed also came as the Prophet prophesied by Moses. In that role, he was warning Jews of the judgment to come upon them. That does not diminish his divinity within the Godhead. You end up just sticking with proof texts instead of study of scripture.

And he's like Moses. Moses also spoke for God with God's authority, was a savior, mediator, prophet, leader, lawgiver, and leader for Israel. Jesus isn't in any godhead according to the Bible.

 

[mikesw]

And he's like Moses. Moses also spoke for God with God's authority, was a savior, mediator, prophet, leader, lawgiver, and leader for Israel. Jesus isn't in any godhead according to the Bible.

I showed that he spoke his direct concern that through the ages he could not gather the people to himself. You are falling for too many of the traps when reading the bible. That highlights your inability to interpret scripture.

 

[Runningman]

I showed that he spoke his direct concern that through the ages he could not gather the people to himself. You are falling for too many of the traps when reading the bible. That highlights your inability to interpret scripture.

I've proven that a regular man can do what Jesus does using Scripture repeatedly. All they need is to be anointed and empowered by God just like the Bible says. Maybe trinitarians are used to being spiritually impotent and have chosen to ignore most of the Bible in exchange for non-Biblical material.

 

[mikesw]

I've proven that a regular man can do what Jesus does using Scripture repeatedly. All they need is to be anointed and empowered by God just like the Bible says. Maybe trinitarians are used to being spiritually impotent and have chosen to ignore most of the Bible in exchange for non-Biblical material.

sure. if they are taught by people like unitarians

 

[Runningman]

sure. if they are taught by people like unitarians

Jesus is a prophet like Moses. Not only is that a Biblical teaching, but it is also something Unitarian Christians agree with. It seems to be firmly rejecting by trinitarians though.

 

[mikesw]

Jesus is a prophet like Moses. Not only is that a Biblical teaching, but it is also something Unitarian Christians agree with. It seems to be firmly rejecting by trinitarians though.

I know that many people forget that Jesus is a prophet. That additional function in his life does not erase being the divine Son in the Godhead.

 

[Runningman]

I know that many people forget that Jesus is a prophet. That additional function in his life does not erase being the divine Son in the Godhead.

God isn't a prophet. God tells prophets what to say. Jesus being a prophet, a messenger, anointed, empowered, made Lord and Christ, a mediator, a human, a Son of God, a Son of Man, pose serious issues for your assertions.

 

[mikesw]

God isn't a prophet.

Wow. Where do you gain such amazing insight into scripture?

 

[Runningman]

Wow. Where do you gain such amazing insight into scripture?

I get it from Scripture.

 

[mikesw]

I get it from Scripture.

I am amazed that you were able to figure out that God is not defined as a Prophet. That is so much more advanced than so many points you try to make.

 

[Runningman]

I am amazed that you were able to figure out that God is not defined as a Prophet. That is so much more advanced than so many points you try to make.

And Jesus is defined as a prophet. Case closed.

 

[mikesw]

And Jesus is defined as a prophet. Case closed.

now you diminish him all the more. You deny his divinity. You deny him as Savior (which means he is God). You deny him as Christ. You deny the resurrected Jesus. You did a full denial with one simple sentence.

 

[Runningman]

now you diminish him all the more. You deny his divinity. You deny him as Savior (which means he is God). You deny him as Christ. You deny the resurrected Jesus. You did a full denial with one simple sentence.

God said Jesus is a prophet like Moses so you diminish God's words and more or less seem to be accusing Him of being a liar. You turn Jesus into an idol, you have no sin sacrifice in your cult because God can't die. You deny everything about how Jesus isn't God.

 

[Rory Wilson]

Yes, the Bible presents Jesus as a prophet like Moses, a concept highlighted in both the Old and New Testaments. Similarities include their roles as deliverers, lawgivers, and mediators of covenants. However, the New Testament also asserts Jesus is greater than Moses, fulfilling a prophecy from Deuteronomy 18:15 as a prophet "like" him, but ultimately a greater one.

Similarities between Jesus and Moses

• Deliverers: Moses led the Israelites out of physical slavery in Egypt, while Jesus, according to the New Testament, leads people out of spiritual bondage to sin and death.
• Lawgivers: Both figures are associated with receiving and giving law. Moses received the Law from God, and Jesus, while fulfilling the Law, also gave new commandments to his followers.
• Covenant Mediators: Moses mediated the Old Covenant, and Jesus is described as the mediator of the New Covenant, according to this article from Bible Hub and this article from GotQuestions.org.
• Miracles and Sign-Miracles: Both authenticated their messages through mighty works.
• • Fasting and Egypt: Both had a connection to Egypt and fasted for 40 days and nights.
  • Escape from a Murderous King: Both were miraculously saved as infants from the threat of a king who was trying to kill babies.

Jesus is greater than Moses

• The prophecy in Deuteronomy 18:15 describes a prophet to come who would be "like" Moses.
• The New Testament, particularly in the books of Acts and the Gospels, identifies Jesus as the fulfillment of this prophecy.
• While Moses spoke with God face-to-face on Earth, Jesus is considered the eternal Son of God who had a unique, eternal relationship with God the Father, making him greater than Moses.
• According to Hebrew 3:1–6, while Jesus is similar to Moses, he is also greater.
• The voice from heaven on the Mount of Transfiguration commanded the disciples to "listen to him" (Jesus), indicating his authority over Moses and Elijah.

tabletalk magazine

 

[Runningman]

Yes, the Bible presents Jesus as a prophet like Moses, a concept highlighted in both the Old and New Testaments. Similarities include their roles as deliverers, lawgivers, and mediators of covenants. However, the New Testament also asserts Jesus is greater than Moses, fulfilling a prophecy from Deuteronomy 18:15 as a prophet "like" him, but ultimately a greater one.

Similarities between Jesus and Moses

• Deliverers: Moses led the Israelites out of physical slavery in Egypt, while Jesus, according to the New Testament, leads people out of spiritual bondage to sin and death.
• Lawgivers: Both figures are associated with receiving and giving law. Moses received the Law from God, and Jesus, while fulfilling the Law, also gave new commandments to his followers.
• Covenant Mediators: Moses mediated the Old Covenant, and Jesus is described as the mediator of the New Covenant, according to this article from Bible Hub and this article from GotQuestions.org.
• Miracles and Sign-Miracles: Both authenticated their messages through mighty works.
• • Fasting and Egypt: Both had a connection to Egypt and fasted for 40 days and nights.
  • Escape from a Murderous King: Both were miraculously saved as infants from the threat of a king who was trying to kill babies.

Jesus is greater than Moses

• The prophecy in Deuteronomy 18:15 describes a prophet to come who would be "like" Moses.
• The New Testament, particularly in the books of Acts and the Gospels, identifies Jesus as the fulfillment of this prophecy.
• While Moses spoke with God face-to-face on Earth, Jesus is considered the eternal Son of God who had a unique, eternal relationship with God the Father, making him greater than Moses.
• According to Hebrew 3:1–6, while Jesus is similar to Moses, he is also greater.
• The voice from heaven on the Mount of Transfiguration commanded the disciples to "listen to him" (Jesus), indicating his authority over Moses and Elijah.

tabletalk magazine

Amen, Moses and Jesus are so similar and I agree Jesus is greater than Moses. Refreshing to see someone here just agree for a change, which there is nothing wrong with at all.

There is kind of a deeper point here, though, that Mike and I have been hashing out for a while.

Since you clearly agree with and understand that there are varying degrees of greatness between people, then what is your take on the Father being greater than Jesus per John 14:28?

 

[Rory Wilson]

John 14:28 is often taken out of context to allege that Jesus is not God. First of all, the doctrine of the incarnation teaches that Jesus:

“emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross” Philippians 2:7–8

And it was only temporary, “for a little while” Hebrews 2:9 the Father was greater in glory and exaltation.

The Father was greater in that He was not subject to pain and illness and death—the Son was. The Father was greater in that He did not live in weariness and poverty and humiliation—the Son did. The “greatness” spoken of in this verse relates to role, not to essence.

 

[civic]

Maybe you can follow me some time and we can help improve your reading comprehension.

thats for sure