All Claims of The Son's Deity

[Peterlag]

Again the only issue raised here is personal pre-existence and you are not dealing with it

Philippians 2:5–8 (NASB95) — 5 Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. 8 Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.


Christ existed in the form of God before becoming flesh and he had an attitude and could think

of which you say not a thing

I call that running

You call it running only because I disagree with you. You're like the guy who says there's blue men from Mars now on the Earth and that I need to acknowledge it. When I say there are no blue men from Mars on the planet. You say I'm running from dealing with the blue men from Mars.

 

[Peterlag]

The same is NOT true of Jesus Christ.

2 Timothy 1:9 - who saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works but because of his own purpose and grace, which he gave us in Christ Jesus before the ages began,

Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.
Col 1:16 For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him.

God the Son together with the Father created.

There is no conflict with 1 Tim 1:9

-------------

Isa 41:4 Who has performed and done this, calling the generations from the beginning? I, the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he.
Isa 44:6 Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts: “I am the first and I am the last; besides me there is no god.
Isa 48:12 “Listen to me, O Jacob, and Israel, whom I called! I am he; I am the first, and I am the last.

Compare with Jesus in Revelation -

Rev 1:17 When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. But he laid his right hand on me, saying, “Fear not, I am the first and the last,
Rev 2:8 “And to the angel of the church in Smyrna write: ‘The words of the first and the last, who died and came to life.
Rev 22:13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.”

Jesus claiming equality with Yahweh, or else you have to throw out Revelation from your Bible.

You have a lot to deny.

Jesus existed only in the mind of God ??????????

Blasphemy.

Colossians 1:16 tells you right in the verse what the all things are. They are thrones, dominions, rulers and authorities. Not planets, oceans and stars. These authorities are the things Jesus will need to govern in his new upcoming kingdom.

 

[Peterlag]

Here's some Bibles on John 1:3 from the 15th century... ​

before the trinity boys started twisting the Scriptures.

No "him" from these versions from the 15th century.

Geneva Bible of 1587
All things were made by it, and without it was made nothing that was made.

Bishops' Bible of 1568
All thynges were made by it: and without it, was made nothyng that was made.

Tyndale Bible of 1526
All thinges were made by it and with out it was made nothinge that was made.

Coverdale Bible of 1535
All thinges were made by the same, and without the same was made nothinge that was made.

Contemporary English Version
And with this Word, God created all things. Nothing was made without the Word. Everything that was created.

 

[civic]

He divides God up into three. He believes one personhod is equally shared among the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
Together the three are one person.

Yes modalism

 

[mikesw]

9

Here's some Bibles on John 1:3 from the 15th century... ​

before the trinity boys started twisting the Scriptures.

No "him" from these versions from the 15th century.

Geneva Bible of 1587
All things were made by it, and without it was made nothing that was made.

Bishops' Bible of 1568
All thynges were made by it: and without it, was made nothyng that was made.

Tyndale Bible of 1526
All thinges were made by it and with out it was made nothinge that was made.

Coverdale Bible of 1535
All thinges were made by the same, and without the same was made nothinge that was made.

Contemporary English Version
And with this Word, God created all things. Nothing was made without the Word. Everything that was created.

wow. interesting how translation to English could improve in 500 years. Great to know that translation skills have improved.

There is no argument here for some change of doctrine since people still knew of the Triune nature of God 500 years ago. We can add this to the list of bad Unitarian hyper-literalist arguments.

 

[TomL]

Yes modalism

He calls it diversified oneness

But instead of diversify the what (God) into 3 persons, he diversifies a person into 3 shares of the person

 

[TomL]

You call it running only because I disagree with you. You're like the guy who says there's blue men from Mars now on the Earth and that I need to acknowledge it. When I say there are no blue men from Mars on the planet. You say I'm running from dealing with the blue men from Mars.

I call it running because you will not deal with the issue raised and only discuss other things which were not raised concerning the passage

Again the only issue raised here is personal pre-existence and you are not dealing with it

Philippians 2:5–8 (NASB95) — 5 Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. 8 Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.


Christ existed in the form of God before becoming flesh and he had an attitude and could think

of which you say not a thing

I call that running

 

[TomL]

How is it you write that I confessed he pre-existed when everything I ever wrote says he did not?

You stated he existed in the foreknowledge of God hello

but do you want to actually del with the point

Again the only issue raised here is personal pre-existence and you are not dealing with it

Philippians 2:5–8 (NASB95) — 5 Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. 8 Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.


Christ existed in the form of God before becoming flesh and he had an attitude and could think

Was this existence not before becoming flesh?

Does the scripture not say he had an attitude and was able to regard or consider?

Are these not personal actions?

 

[Peterlag]

You stated he existed in the foreknowledge of God hello

but do you want to actually del with the point

Again the only issue raised here is personal pre-existence and you are not dealing with it

Philippians 2:5–8 (NASB95) — 5 Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. 8 Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.


Christ existed in the form of God before becoming flesh and he had an attitude and could think

Was this existence not before becoming flesh?

Does the scripture not say he had an attitude and was able to regard or consider?

Are these not personal actions?

Is there a verse that says Jesus emptied himself of Godhood?

 

[ProDeo]

Colossians 1:16 tells you right in the verse what the all things are. They are thrones, dominions, rulers and authorities. Not planets, oceans and stars. These authorities are the things Jesus will need to govern in his new upcoming kingdom.

I am always surprised about the nonsensical creativity some people have to deny the obvious in order to keep their world upright.

 

[ProDeo]

Here's some Bibles on John 1:3 from the 15th century... ​

before the trinity boys started twisting the Scriptures.

No "him" from these versions from the 15th century.

Geneva Bible of 1587
All things were made by it, and without it was made nothing that was made.

Bishops' Bible of 1568
All thynges were made by it: and without it, was made nothyng that was made.

Tyndale Bible of 1526
All thinges were made by it and with out it was made nothinge that was made.

Coverdale Bible of 1535
All thinges were made by the same, and without the same was made nothinge that was made.

Contemporary English Version
And with this Word, God created all things. Nothing was made without the Word. Everything that was created.

Ah, I see you are a conspiracy theorist also.

 

[TomL]

Is there a verse that says Jesus emptied himself of Godhood?

You dodged again, ignoring the questions asked of you

gain the only issue raised here is personal pre-existence and you are not dealing with it

Philippians 2:5–8 (NASB95) — 5 Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. 8 Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.


Christ existed in the form of God before becoming flesh and he had an attitude and could think

Was this existence not before becoming flesh?

Does the scripture not say he had an attitude and was able to regard or consider?

Are these not personal actions?

Will you ever stop your running?

 

[TomL]

Here's some Bibles on John 1:3 from the 15th century... ​

before the trinity boys started twisting the Scriptures.

No "him" from these versions from the 15th century.

Geneva Bible of 1587
All things were made by it, and without it was made nothing that was made.

Bishops' Bible of 1568
All thynges were made by it: and without it, was made nothyng that was made.

Tyndale Bible of 1526
All thinges were made by it and with out it was made nothinge that was made.

Coverdale Bible of 1535
All thinges were made by the same, and without the same was made nothinge that was made.

Contemporary English Version
And with this Word, God created all things. Nothing was made without the Word. Everything that was created.

Greek texts

John 1:3 (WH1881MR) — 3 παντα δι αυτου εγενετο και χωρις αυτου εγενετο ουδε εν ο γεγονεν

John 1:3 (Alford) — 3 πάντα διʼ αὐτοῦ ἐγένετο, καὶ χωρὶς αὐτοῦ ἐγένετο οὐδὲ ἓν ὃ γέγονεν.

John 1:3 (BYZ) — 3 παντα δι αυτου εγενετο και χωρις αυτου εγενετο ουδε εν ο γεγονεν

John 1:3 (CGT Txt) — 3 πάντα διʼ αὐτοῦ ἐγένετο, καὶ χωρὶς αὐτοῦ ἐγένετο οὐδὲ ἓν ὃ γέγονεν.

John 1:3 (The Greek New Testament, as Edited by Samuel Prideaux Tregelles) — 3 πάντα διʼ αὐτοῦ ἐγένετο, καὶ χωρὶς αὐτοῦ ἐγένετο οὐδὲ ἕν. ὃ γέγονεν

John 1:3 (UBS4 Int.) — 3 πάντα διʼ αὐτοῦ ἐγένετο, καὶ χωρὶς αὐτοῦ ἐγένετο οὐδὲ ἕν. ὃ γέγονεν

John 1:3 (SBLGNT) — 3 πάντα διʼ αὐτοῦ ἐγένετο, καὶ χωρὶς αὐτοῦ ἐγένετο οὐδὲ ἕν. ὃ γέγονεν

John 1:3 (LDGNT) — 3 πάντα διʼ αὐτοῦ ἐγένετο καὶ χωρὶς αὐτοῦ ἐγένετο οὐδὲ ἕν ὃ γέγονεν

John 1:3 (NA27) — 3 πάντα διʼ αὐτοῦ ἐγένετο, καὶ χωρὶς αὐτοῦ ἐγένετο οὐδὲ ἕν. ὃ γέγονεν

John 1:3 (Scrivener 1881) — 3 πάντα διʼ αὐτοῦ ἐγένετο, καὶ χωρὶς αὐτοῦ ἐγένετο οὐδὲ ἕν, ὃ γέγονεν.

John 1:3 (Westcott-Hort) — 3 πάντα διʼ αὐτοῦ ἐγένετο, καὶ χωρὶς αὐτοῦ ἐγένετο οὐδὲ ἕν. ὃ γέγονεν

John 1:3 (TR1550MR) — 3 παντα δι αυτου εγενετο και χωρις αυτου εγενετο ουδε εν ο γεγονεν


αὐτοῦ is masculine singular

 

[TomL]

Colossians 1:16 tells you right in the verse what the all things are. They are thrones, dominions, rulers and authorities. Not planets, oceans and stars. These authorities are the things Jesus will need to govern in his new upcoming kingdom.

Um

John 1:3 (KJV 1900) — 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

 

[Peterlag]

Um

John 1:3 (KJV 1900) — 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

John 1:3
“Everything came to be through it.” The logos is an “it” not a “him.”

Translators have deliberately chosen to use “him” because they wanted to emphasize that the Word was the male person we know as Jesus. This was a theological choice, not a linguistic one.

 

[Peterlag]

Greek texts

John 1:3 (WH1881MR) — 3 παντα δι αυτου εγενετο και χωρις αυτου εγενετο ουδε εν ο γεγονεν

John 1:3 (Alford) — 3 πάντα διʼ αὐτοῦ ἐγένετο, καὶ χωρὶς αὐτοῦ ἐγένετο οὐδὲ ἓν ὃ γέγονεν.

John 1:3 (BYZ) — 3 παντα δι αυτου εγενετο και χωρις αυτου εγενετο ουδε εν ο γεγονεν

John 1:3 (CGT Txt) — 3 πάντα διʼ αὐτοῦ ἐγένετο, καὶ χωρὶς αὐτοῦ ἐγένετο οὐδὲ ἓν ὃ γέγονεν.

John 1:3 (The Greek New Testament, as Edited by Samuel Prideaux Tregelles) — 3 πάντα διʼ αὐτοῦ ἐγένετο, καὶ χωρὶς αὐτοῦ ἐγένετο οὐδὲ ἕν. ὃ γέγονεν

John 1:3 (UBS4 Int.) — 3 πάντα διʼ αὐτοῦ ἐγένετο, καὶ χωρὶς αὐτοῦ ἐγένετο οὐδὲ ἕν. ὃ γέγονεν

John 1:3 (SBLGNT) — 3 πάντα διʼ αὐτοῦ ἐγένετο, καὶ χωρὶς αὐτοῦ ἐγένετο οὐδὲ ἕν. ὃ γέγονεν

John 1:3 (LDGNT) — 3 πάντα διʼ αὐτοῦ ἐγένετο καὶ χωρὶς αὐτοῦ ἐγένετο οὐδὲ ἕν ὃ γέγονεν

John 1:3 (NA27) — 3 πάντα διʼ αὐτοῦ ἐγένετο, καὶ χωρὶς αὐτοῦ ἐγένετο οὐδὲ ἕν. ὃ γέγονεν

John 1:3 (Scrivener 1881) — 3 πάντα διʼ αὐτοῦ ἐγένετο, καὶ χωρὶς αὐτοῦ ἐγένετο οὐδὲ ἕν, ὃ γέγονεν.

John 1:3 (Westcott-Hort) — 3 πάντα διʼ αὐτοῦ ἐγένετο, καὶ χωρὶς αὐτοῦ ἐγένετο οὐδὲ ἕν. ὃ γέγονεν

John 1:3 (TR1550MR) — 3 παντα δι αυτου εγενετο και χωρις αυτου εγενετο ουδε εν ο γεγονεν


αὐτοῦ is masculine singular

Words and spirit when translated into English are it's. In English spirit and words do not have gender.

 

[Peterlag]

You dodged again, ignoring the questions asked of you

gain the only issue raised here is personal pre-existence and you are not dealing with it

Philippians 2:5–8 (NASB95) — 5 Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. 8 Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.


Christ existed in the form of God before becoming flesh and he had an attitude and could think

Was this existence not before becoming flesh?

Does the scripture not say he had an attitude and was able to regard or consider?

Are these not personal actions?

Will you ever stop your running?

I never dodge. I just don't have a twisted view of Scripture that you do. And by the way, there is no verse anywhere in the Bible that says Jesus emptied himself of his Godhood. Nowhere. So you can just go ahead and keep making shit up.

 

[Peterlag]

Ah, I see you are a conspiracy theorist also.

Yep... I'm right up there not knowing the Greek just like these guys...

Geneva Bible of 1587
All things were made by it, and without it was made nothing that was made.

Bishops' Bible of 1568
All thynges were made by it: and without it, was made nothyng that was made.

Tyndale Bible of 1526
All thinges were made by it and with out it was made nothinge that was made.

 

[Peterlag]

I am always surprised about the nonsensical creativity some people have to deny the obvious in order to keep their world upright.

John 1:1
It seems difficult for people to understand that John 1:1 is introducing the Gospel of John, and not the Book of Genesis. The topic of John is God (the Father, the only God) at work in the ministry of the man Jesus of Nazareth, not the creation of rocks, trees and stars.

 

[Peterlag]