All Claims of The Son's Deity

[Peterlag]

Isaiah 63:7–14 (LEB) — 7 I will mention the loyal love of Yahweh, the praises of Yahweh, according to all that Yahweh has done for us, and the greatness of goodness to the house of Israel that he has done to them according to his mercy and the abundance of his loyal love. 8 And he said, “Surely my people are children; they will not break faith.” And he became a Savior to them. 9 In all their distress, there was no distress, and the messenger of his presence saved them, in his love and compassion he himself redeemed them, and he lifted them up, and he supported them all the days of old. 10 But they were the ones who rebelled, and they grieved his Holy Spirit, so he became an enemy to them; he himself fought against them. 11 Then his people remembered the days of old, of Moses. Where is the one who led up them from the sea with the shepherds of his flock? Where is the one who puts his Holy Spirit inside him, 12 who made his magnificent arm move at the right hand of Moses, who divided the waters before them, to make an everlasting name for himself, 13 who led them through the depths? They did not stumble like a horse in the desert; 14 like cattle in the valley that goes down, the Spirit of Yahweh gave him rest, so you lead your people to make a magnificent name for yourself.

Isaiah 48:12–16 (LEB) — 12 “Listen to me, Jacob, and Israel, whom I called: I am he. I am the first; also I am the last. 13 Indeed, my hand founded the earth, and my right hand spread out the heavens; when I summon them, they stand in position together. 14 Assemble, all of you, and hear! Who among them declared these things? Yahweh loves him; he shall perform his wish against Babylon and his arm against the Chaldeans. 15 I, I myself, I have spoken! Indeed, I have called him. I have brought him, and he will be successful in his way. 16 Draw near to me; hear this! I have not spoken in secrecy from the beginning; from the time it came to be, there I have been; And now the Lord Yahweh has sent me and his Spirit.”


Looks like a trinity to me

I do not see a trinity. God, not Jesus is being referred to in Isaiah 48. It's God's spirit that was on the Prophets that the people rebelled against. You got nothing but your own reasoning process, speculations and assumptions. Nothing more.

 

[TomL]

I do not see a trinity. God, not Jesus is being referred to in Isaiah 48. It's God's spirit that was on the Prophets that the people rebelled against. You got nothing but your own reasoning process, speculations and assumptions. Nothing more.

Lets see

Isaiah 63:7–14 (LEB) — 7 I will mention the loyal love of Yahweh, the praises of Yahweh, according to all that Yahweh has done for us, and the greatness of goodness to the house of Israel that he has done to them according to his mercy and the abundance of his loyal love. 8 And he said, “Surely my people are children; they will not break faith.” And he became a Savior to them. 9 In all their distress, there was no distress, and the messenger of his presence saved them, in his love and compassion he himself redeemed them, and he lifted them up, and he supported them all the days of old. 10 But they were the ones who rebelled, and they grieved his Holy Spirit, so he became an enemy to them; he himself fought against them. 11 Then his people remembered the days of old, of Moses. Where is the one who led up them from the sea with the shepherds of his flock? Where is the one who puts his Holy Spirit inside him, 12 who made his magnificent arm move at the right hand of Moses, who divided the waters before them, to make an everlasting name for himself, 13 who led them through the depths? They did not stumble like a horse in the desert; 14 like cattle in the valley that goes down, the Spirit of Yahweh gave him rest, so you lead your people to make a magnificent name for yourself.

We have Yahweh and we have the messenger of his presence and his holy Spirit

That is three

Isaiah 48:12–16 (LEB) — 12 “Listen to me, Jacob, and Israel, whom I called: I am he. I am the first; also I am the last. 13 Indeed, my hand founded the earth, and my right hand spread out the heavens; when I summon them, they stand in position together. 14 Assemble, all of you, and hear! Who among them declared these things? Yahweh loves him; he shall perform his wish against Babylon and his arm against the Chaldeans. 15 I, I myself, I have spoken! Indeed, I have called him. I have brought him, and he will be successful in his way. 16 Draw near to me; hear this! I have not spoken in secrecy from the beginning; from the time it came to be, there I have been; And now the Lord Yahweh has sent me and his Spirit.”

Here we have one who states i am he-the first and the last who founded the earth and spread out the heavens

He was sent by the Lord Yahweh along with his Spirit

Again three

 

[Horatius]

Jesus is God...
“God the Word became also man for our sakes” (Roman Acts, 6, Apostolic Fathers, Part II, 2:583)
“they rose at daybreak and sang a hymn to Christ as God” (Roman Acts, 11, Apostolic Fathers, Part II, 2:587)
“The Son is therefore called the Word, in order that He might show us that He is from the Father in nature … the mixture of God the Word with the flesh which He put on.” (John the Monk, Apostolic Fathers, 2:152)
… “our God Jesus Christ” (Timotheus of Alexandria, Apostolic Fathers, 2:174)
“…the suffering of my God” (Timotheus of Alexandria, Apostolic Fathers, 2:174, 176)
“…the suffering of my God” (Severus of Antioch, Apostolic Fathers 2:181)
“…the blood of God” (Severus of Antioch, Apostolic Fathers 2:181 18)
“…Jesus Christ; who before the worlds was with the Father, and in the end was manifest.” (Severus of Antioch, Apostolic Fathers 2:181)
“God was manifested as man for the renewal of life without end.” (Severus of Antioch, Apostolic Fathers 2:189)
“He was always God” (Severus of Antioch, Apostolic Fathers 2:189)
“…they believe in the blood of Christ who is God” (Anonymous Syriac Writers, Apostolic Fathers 2:195)
“…the sufferings of my God” (Anonymous Syriac Writers, Apostolic Fathers 2:197)
“…the blood of God” (The Cunetonian Epistles, Apostolic Fathers, Part II, 3:88)
“Jesus Christ our God” (The Cunetonian Epistles, Apostolic Fathers, Part II, 3:92)

From the primary source material presented above, it is clear that the early Fathers believed that God was Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. They may not have had the sophisticated views of the Trinity which would eventually develop in response to heresies not yet present in their day.
But their faith, hope, and love were in the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.


The Trinity: Evidence and Issues

 

[Peterlag]

Lets see

Isaiah 63:7–14 (LEB) — 7 I will mention the loyal love of Yahweh, the praises of Yahweh, according to all that Yahweh has done for us, and the greatness of goodness to the house of Israel that he has done to them according to his mercy and the abundance of his loyal love. 8 And he said, “Surely my people are children; they will not break faith.” And he became a Savior to them. 9 In all their distress, there was no distress, and the messenger of his presence saved them, in his love and compassion he himself redeemed them, and he lifted them up, and he supported them all the days of old. 10 But they were the ones who rebelled, and they grieved his Holy Spirit, so he became an enemy to them; he himself fought against them. 11 Then his people remembered the days of old, of Moses. Where is the one who led up them from the sea with the shepherds of his flock? Where is the one who puts his Holy Spirit inside him, 12 who made his magnificent arm move at the right hand of Moses, who divided the waters before them, to make an everlasting name for himself, 13 who led them through the depths? They did not stumble like a horse in the desert; 14 like cattle in the valley that goes down, the Spirit of Yahweh gave him rest, so you lead your people to make a magnificent name for yourself.

We have Yahweh and we have the messenger of his presence and his holy Spirit

That is three

Isaiah 48:12–16 (LEB) — 12 “Listen to me, Jacob, and Israel, whom I called: I am he. I am the first; also I am the last. 13 Indeed, my hand founded the earth, and my right hand spread out the heavens; when I summon them, they stand in position together. 14 Assemble, all of you, and hear! Who among them declared these things? Yahweh loves him; he shall perform his wish against Babylon and his arm against the Chaldeans. 15 I, I myself, I have spoken! Indeed, I have called him. I have brought him, and he will be successful in his way. 16 Draw near to me; hear this! I have not spoken in secrecy from the beginning; from the time it came to be, there I have been; And now the Lord Yahweh has sent me and his Spirit.”

Here we have one who states i am he-the first and the last who founded the earth and spread out the heavens

He was sent by the Lord Yahweh along with his Spirit

Again three

Yeah you just keep repeating yourself like you keep doing with Philippians 2:6. The spirit in this context is the spirit God puts on His prophets and very much like the one He puts in Christians. It is not another God. The first and the last mentioned here in Isaiah is referring to God. Not Jesus.

 

[Richard]

I believe that the name Elohim is compatible with the doctrine of the Trinity and that the name itself does demands that we infer that God is triune in His nature. Also Psalm 110. This psalm has a very strange beginning. The psalmist says, “The LORD says to my Lord: Sit at my right hand, until I make your enemies your footstool" Psalm 110:1

 

[Johann]

I believe that the name Elohim is compatible with the doctrine of the Trinity and that the name itself does demands that we infer that God is triune in His nature. Also Psalm 110. This psalm has a very strange beginning. The psalmist says, “The LORD says to my Lord: Sit at my right hand, until I make your enemies your footstool" Psalm 110:1

If you are interested you can download OJB from e-Sword @Richard.


Bereshis (in the Beginning) was the Dvar Hashem [YESHAYAH 55:11; BERESHIS 1:1], and the Dvar Hashem was agav (along with) Hashem [MISHLE 8:30; 30:4], and the Dvar Hashem was nothing less, by nature, than Elohim! [Psa 56:11(10); Yn 17:5; Rev. 19:13]
Joh 1:2 Bereshis (in the Beginning) this Dvar Hashem was with Hashem [Prov 8:30].
Joh 1:3 All things through him came to be, and without him came to be not one thing which came into being. [Ps 33:6,9; Prov 30:4]
OJB.

J.

 

[Peterlag]

I believe that the name Elohim is compatible with the doctrine of the Trinity and that the name itself does demands that we infer that God is triune in His nature. Also Psalm 110. This psalm has a very strange beginning. The psalmist says, “The LORD says to my Lord: Sit at my right hand, until I make your enemies your footstool" Psalm 110:1

The word adoni and adonai have the same root, adon, which is the word listed in the concordances and most lexicons. However, the exact words used are different. Adoni, the word used in Psalm 110:1, is never used of God. It's always used of a human or angelic superior. The fact that the Hebrew text uses the word adoni of the Messiah in Psalm 110 is very strong proof that he is not God. If the Messiah was to be God, then the word adonai would have been used. The distinction is between adoni (a lord) and adonai (the Lord, God).

 

[Nathan]

1. The Trinity is not belief in three gods. There is only one God, and we must never stray from this.
2. This one God exists as three Persons.
3. The three Persons are not each part of God, but are each fully God and equally God. Within God’s one undivided being there is an unfolding into three interpersonal relationships such that there are three Persons. The distinctions within the Godhead are not distinctions of His essence and neither are they something added on to His essence, but they are the unfolding of God’s one, undivided being into three interpersonal relationships such that there are three real Persons.
4. God is not one person who took three consecutive roles. That is the heresy of modalism. The Father did not become the Son and then the Holy Spirit. Instead, there have always been and always will be three distinct persons in the Godhead.
5. The Trinity is not a contradiction because God is not three in the same way that He is one. God is one in essence, three in Person.

 

[Richard]

The word adoni and adonai have the same root, adon, which is the word listed in the concordances and most lexicons. However, the exact words used are different. Adoni, the word used in Psalm 110:1, is never used of God. It's always used of a human or angelic superior. The fact that the Hebrew text uses the word adoni of the Messiah in Psalm 110 is very strong proof that he is not God. If the Messiah was to be God, then the word adonai would have been used. The distinction is between adoni (a lord) and adonai (the Lord, God).

Psalm 110:1 go's on in the New Testament and is picks up on this and talks about Jesus simultaneously being David’s son and David’s Lord. This psalm also provides another hint to the multiple dimensions of the being of God when it declares that God’s Son will be a priest forever, an eternal priest after the order of Melchizedek.

 

[TomL]

Yeah you just keep repeating yourself like you keep doing with Philippians 2:6. The spirit in this context is the spirit God puts on His prophets and very much like the one He puts in Christians. It is not another God. The first and the last mentioned here in Isaiah is referring to God. Not Jesus.

I repeat Phil 2:6 because you always run from the point being raised

Phil 2:6 teaches Christ had a personal pre-existence before becoming a man

Philippians 2:5–7 (KJV 1900) — 5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

that he existed in the form of God and had a mind with which he could think

Please let me know when you becoming willing to stop running from that point and address it.

Now as for

Isaiah 63:7–14 (LEB) — 7 I will mention the loyal love of Yahweh, the praises of Yahweh, according to all that Yahweh has done for us, and the greatness of goodness to the house of Israel that he has done to them according to his mercy and the abundance of his loyal love. 8 And he said, “Surely my people are children; they will not break faith.” And he became a Savior to them. 9 In all their distress, there was no distress, and the messenger of his presence saved them, in his love and compassion he himself redeemed them, and he lifted them up, and he supported them all the days of old. 10 But they were the ones who rebelled, and they grieved his Holy Spirit, so he became an enemy to them; he himself fought against them. 11 Then his people remembered the days of old, of Moses. Where is the one who led up them from the sea with the shepherds of his flock? Where is the one who puts his Holy Spirit inside him, 12 who made his magnificent arm move at the right hand of Moses, who divided the waters before them, to make an everlasting name for himself, 13 who led them through the depths? They did not stumble like a horse in the desert; 14 like cattle in the valley that goes down, the Spirit of Yahweh gave him rest, so you lead your people to make a magnificent name for yourself.

We have Yahweh and we have the messenger of his presence and his holy Spirit

That is three

Isaiah 48:12–16 (LEB) — 12 “Listen to me, Jacob, and Israel, whom I called: I am he. I am the first; also I am the last. 13 Indeed, my hand founded the earth, and my right hand spread out the heavens; when I summon them, they stand in position together. 14 Assemble, all of you, and hear! Who among them declared these things? Yahweh loves him; he shall perform his wish against Babylon and his arm against the Chaldeans. 15 I, I myself, I have spoken! Indeed, I have called him. I have brought him, and he will be successful in his way. 16 Draw near to me; hear this! I have not spoken in secrecy from the beginning; from the time it came to be, there I have been; And now the Lord Yahweh has sent me and his Spirit.”

Here we have one who states i am he-the first and the last who founded the earth and spread out the heavens

He was sent by the Lord Yahweh along with his Spirit

Again three

What do you want to dispute?

That three are mentioned?

That all three do not have support for being God?

What?

Did you miss the fact that in Isa 48 the speaker was sent by Yahweh

The speaker who states

I am he. I am the first; also I am the last. 13 Indeed, my hand founded the earth, and my right hand spread out the heavens

 

[101G]

The word adoni and adonai have the same root, adon, which is the word listed in the concordances and most lexicons. However, the exact words used are different. Adoni, the word used in Psalm 110:1, is never used of God. It's always used of a human or angelic superior. The fact that the Hebrew text uses the word adoni of the Messiah in Psalm 110 is very strong proof that he is not God. If the Messiah was to be God, then the word adonai would have been used. The distinction is between adoni (a lord) and adonai (the Lord, God).

the bible disagrees with you Pete. listen to the scriptures. Psalms 110:1 "A Psalm of David. The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool."

here you have "LORD" all caps, and "Lord". is this the same person? yes, and here why.

LORD:
H3068 יְהוָה Yhvah (yeh-vaw') n/p.
יְהוָֹה Yhovah (yeh-ho-vaw')
יְהוֹ Yhow (yeh-ho') [as a prefix]
1. (meaning) the self-Existent or Eternal, the I AM.
2. (person) Yahweh (Yehvah), Jewish national name of God.
3. (anglicized) Jehovah.
4. (as a name prefix) Yeho-.
5. (As expressed in Hebraic Koine Greek) ἐγώ εἰμί, I AM (literally: I myself, I am).
[from H1961]
KJV: Jehovah, the Lord.
Root(s): H1961
take careful notice of definition #2. (person) Yahweh (Yehvah), Jewish national name of God.

now "Lord" in verse 1,
H113 אָדוֹן 'adown (aw-done') n-m.
אָדֹן 'adon (aw-done') [shortened]
1. sovereign (i.e. controller, human or divine).
2. lord.
{also used as a prefix for names}
[from an unused root (meaning to rule)]
KJV: lord, master, owner.

take note of the Hebrew, H113 אָדוֹן 'adown (aw-done') n-m.

now the same "Lord" in verse 1 is the same "Lord" in verse 5 at the "LORD" right. Psalms 110:5 "The Lord at thy right hand shall strike through kings in the day of his wrath."

the same "Lord" in verse 1 at the "LORD" right. now watch the definition.
Lord:
H136 אֲדֹנָי 'Adonay (ad-o-noy') n-m.
1. (meaning) Lord (used as a proper name of God only).
2. (person) Adonai, The Lord God of Israel (which is actually “Yahweh God of Israel” - see Exodus 5:1 and 120 other occurrences).
[am emphatic form of H113]
KJV: (my) Lord.
Root(s): H113

notice definition #2. (person) Adonai, The Lord God of Israel (which is actually “Yahweh God of Israel” - see Exodus 5:1 and 120 other occurrences).

now lets go back to #2. Definition in "LORD" all caps. 2. (person) Yahweh (Yehvah), Jewish national name of God.

see both definition #2.... (person) .... BINGO, the same (person) the LORD is the Lord in flesh.... yes Christ Jesus, who was to come in flesh and blood, John 1:1-3 is God almighty.

an emphatic form of adon H113 .... "My Lord" in verse 1.

do the research and get back with 101G.

101G.

 

[Richard]

the bible disagrees with you Pete. listen to the scriptures. Psalms 110:1 "A Psalm of David. The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool."

here you have "LORD" all caps, and "Lord". is this the same person? yes, and here why.

LORD:
H3068 יְהוָה Yhvah (yeh-vaw') n/p.
יְהוָֹה Yhovah (yeh-ho-vaw')
יְהוֹ Yhow (yeh-ho') [as a prefix]
1. (meaning) the self-Existent or Eternal, the I AM.
2. (person) Yahweh (Yehvah), Jewish national name of God.
3. (anglicized) Jehovah.
4. (as a name prefix) Yeho-.
5. (As expressed in Hebraic Koine Greek) ἐγώ εἰμί, I AM (literally: I myself, I am).
[from H1961]
KJV: Jehovah, the Lord.
Root(s): H1961
take careful notice of definition #2. (person) Yahweh (Yehvah), Jewish national name of God.

now "Lord" in verse 1,
H113 אָדוֹן 'adown (aw-done') n-m.
אָדֹן 'adon (aw-done') [shortened]
1. sovereign (i.e. controller, human or divine).
2. lord.
{also used as a prefix for names}
[from an unused root (meaning to rule)]
KJV: lord, master, owner.

take note of the Hebrew, H113 אָדוֹן 'adown (aw-done') n-m.

now the same "Lord" in verse 1 is the same "Lord" in verse 5 at the "LORD" right. Psalms 110:5 "The Lord at thy right hand shall strike through kings in the day of his wrath."

the same "Lord" in verse 1 at the "LORD" right. now watch the definition.
Lord:
H136 אֲדֹנָי 'Adonay (ad-o-noy') n-m.
1. (meaning) Lord (used as a proper name of God only).
2. (person) Adonai, The Lord God of Israel (which is actually “Yahweh God of Israel” - see Exodus 5:1 and 120 other occurrences).
[am emphatic form of H113]
KJV: (my) Lord.
Root(s): H113

notice definition #2. (person) Adonai, The Lord God of Israel (which is actually “Yahweh God of Israel” - see Exodus 5:1 and 120 other occurrences).

now lets go back to #2. Definition in "LORD" all caps. 2. (person) Yahweh (Yehvah), Jewish national name of God.

see both definition #2.... (person) .... BINGO, the same (person) the LORD is the Lord in flesh.... yes Christ Jesus, who was to come in flesh and blood, John 1:1-3 is God almighty.

an emphatic form of adon H113 .... "My Lord" in verse 1.

do the research and get back with 101G.

101G.

Outstanding

 

[101G]

I repeat Phil 2:6 because you always run from the point being raised

Phil 2:6 teaches Christ had a personal pre-existence before becoming a man

Philippians 2:5–7 (KJV 1900) — 5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

that he existed in the form of God and had a mind with which he could think

Please let me know when you becoming willing to stop running from that point and address it.

Now as for



What do you want to dispute?

That three are mentioned?

That all three do not have support for being God?

What?

Did you miss the fact that in Isa 48 the speaker was sent by Yahweh

The speaker who states

I am he. I am the first; also I am the last. 13 Indeed, my hand founded the earth, and my right hand spread out the heavens

Outstanding

thanks.

 

[101G]

Did you miss the fact that in Isa 48 the speaker was sent by Yahweh

The speaker who states

I am he. I am the first; also I am the last. 13 Indeed, my hand founded the earth, and my right hand spread out the heavens

Hi TomL, you are saying that the speaker (the Lord Jesus) was sent by Yahweh? Isaiah 48:16 "Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me."

so, you're saying that the "Lord GOD" here is your Yahweh? yes or no.
just want to be clear.

101G.

 

[TomL]

Hi TomL, you are saying that the speaker (the Lord Jesus) was sent by Yahweh? Isaiah 48:16 "Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me."

so, you're saying that the "Lord GOD" here is your Yahweh? yes or no.
just want to be clear.

101G.

This is what I noted

Isaiah 48:12–16 (LEB) — 12 “Listen to me, Jacob, and Israel, whom I called: I am he. I am the first; also I am the last. 13 Indeed, my hand founded the earth, and my right hand spread out the heavens; when I summon them, they stand in position together. 14 Assemble, all of you, and hear! Who among them declared these things? Yahweh loves him; he shall perform his wish against Babylon and his arm against the Chaldeans. 15 I, I myself, I have spoken! Indeed, I have called him. I have brought him, and he will be successful in his way. 16 Draw near to me; hear this! I have not spoken in secrecy from the beginning; from the time it came to be, there I have been; And now the Lord Yahweh has sent me and his Spirit.”

Here we have one who states i am he-the first and the last who founded the earth and spread out the heavens

He was sent by the Lord Yahweh along with his Spirit

Two sent by one - a trinity not one person

 

[Peterlag]

I repeat Phil 2:6 because you always run from the point being raised

Phil 2:6 teaches Christ had a personal pre-existence before becoming a man

Philippians 2:5–7 (KJV 1900) — 5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

that he existed in the form of God and had a mind with which he could think

Please let me know when you becoming willing to stop running from that point and address it.

Now as for



What do you want to dispute?

That three are mentioned?

That all three do not have support for being God?

What?

Did you miss the fact that in Isa 48 the speaker was sent by Yahweh

The speaker who states

I am he. I am the first; also I am the last. 13 Indeed, my hand founded the earth, and my right hand spread out the heavens

Disagreeing with you is not running from the subject we are conversing about. It is not dodging and it is not avoiding. It's called disagreeing with you. I do not see a pre-existence that is stuck in your brain.

 

[Peterlag]

Psalm 110:1 go's on in the New Testament and is picks up on this and talks about Jesus simultaneously being David’s son and David’s Lord. This psalm also provides another hint to the multiple dimensions of the being of God when it declares that God’s Son will be a priest forever, an eternal priest after the order of Melchizedek.

All you folks ever put in front of me are bits and pieces of words and half verses that are scattered all over the Bible. Also there's no teaching on why God would come to the earth as a man. Such a concept accomplishes nothing. Romans says a man (Adam) caused sin to enter into the world, and also that a man would have to redeem it from sin. The Bible specifically says that a man must do it. The book of Corinthians makes the same point Romans does when it says “For since by a man came death, by a man also came the resurrection of the dead” (1 Corinthians 15:21).

If there is a trinity then why not just come out and say it? Why do we have to jump all over the Bible cutting and pasting pieces of words that are scattered all over the Bible? Why not just teach it? I know enough about how the Bible is written in the New Testament and in the Gospels to know if there was a trinity it would have been taught. The Gospels would have clearly said...

Verily, verily I say unto you that I am Jesus and I'm also God.

The Epistles would have writings like...

Yay, I Paul do testify that Jesus who is God came down from heaven to be a man for us. And we do know and testify that this same Jesus who you crucified is God. And so let us bow our knee to the one and only true God-Man Jesus Christ.

And yet there's nothing like that anywhere. Not in the Old or New Testament. Not even one complete verse like that.

 

[Peterlag]

1. The Trinity is not belief in three gods. There is only one God, and we must never stray from this.
2. This one God exists as three Persons.
3. The three Persons are not each part of God, but are each fully God and equally God. Within God’s one undivided being there is an unfolding into three interpersonal relationships such that there are three Persons. The distinctions within the Godhead are not distinctions of His essence and neither are they something added on to His essence, but they are the unfolding of God’s one, undivided being into three interpersonal relationships such that there are three real Persons.
4. God is not one person who took three consecutive roles. That is the heresy of modalism. The Father did not become the Son and then the Holy Spirit. Instead, there have always been and always will be three distinct persons in the Godhead.
5. The Trinity is not a contradiction because God is not three in the same way that He is one. God is one in essence, three in Person.

Do you have a verse to go along with that?

 

[TomL]

Disagreeing with you is not running from the subject we are conversing about. It is not dodging and it is not avoiding. It's called disagreeing with you. I do not see a pre-existence that is stuck in your brain.

When you do not discuss the issue I raised of personal pre-existence as demonstrated in Phil 2:5-8 and you address other issues that I have not raised, that is indeed running.

Did Christ not exist in the form of God and was he not capable of thinking or considering having had a mind before becoming a man?

Philippians 2:5–8 (KJV 1900) — 5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

 

[101G]

This is what I noted

Isaiah 48:12–16 (LEB) — 12 “Listen to me, Jacob, and Israel, whom I called: I am he. I am the first; also I am the last. 13 Indeed, my hand founded the earth, and my right hand spread out the heavens; when I summon them, they stand in position together. 14 Assemble, all of you, and hear! Who among them declared these things? Yahweh loves him; he shall perform his wish against Babylon and his arm against the Chaldeans. 15 I, I myself, I have spoken! Indeed, I have called him. I have brought him, and he will be successful in his way. 16 Draw near to me; hear this! I have not spoken in secrecy from the beginning; from the time it came to be, there I have been; And now the Lord Yahweh has sent me and his Spirit.”

Here we have one who states i am he-the first and the last who founded the earth and spread out the heavens

He was sent by the Lord Yahweh along with his Spirit

Two sent by one - a trinity not one person

GINOLJC, to all.
that is what you noted? Good, not saying that you're right or wrong, but maybe in ERROR? ....... well you're not alone, a many of scholars have said the same thing also. so ...... you're in good company. but there is just one little, 101G repeat, just a little problem, and here it is. if the Lord God is your Yahweh, then it's the same Lord God, "Yahweh", in Revelation who sent his angel to John correct? let's examine what was said in the book of Revelation, for it is the book of REVEALING. scripture, Revelation 1:1 "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:" God here in the verse who sent his angel is your Lord God... "Yahweh", correct... because the angel who was sent said, the Lord God of the Holy Prophets sent him, Listen, Revelation 22:6 "And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done." as said, a many of scholars have said, yes, the "Lord God" ..... of the Holy Prophets ...... who sent his angel here is the Yahweh God of the O.T. for he is the "God" of the Holy Prophets, just as the angel said here in Revelation 22:6. the angel said, " the Lord God of the holy prophets sent him" to John , please read Revelation 22:6 again if you have any questions about that.

BUT HERE IS THAT LITTLE, LITTLE, PROBLEM 101G spoke of. because just 10 verses later, here in chapter 22 the bible states this, Revelation 22:16 "I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star."

see the "LITTLE" problem now. the Lord God is "JESUS", yes, the Lord God of the Holy Prophets, (as in Isaiah 48), just as the angel said who was sent, read revelation 22:6 again.

now this is the "LITTLE" problem.... since the Lord God is "JESUS" let's go back to Isaiah 48:16 "Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD (JESUS), and his Spirit, hath sent me." so, care to explain A. who was sent. and B. Who is really speaking here in Isaiah 48? looking to hear your answer to both question.

in MUCH G.L.

101G.