I see plenty of illogic in the re-interpretation of key passages by the Unitarians. They definitely do not show an advantage in their manner of interpretation.
All Claims of The Son's Deity
- Thread starter Johann
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They insist that things don't make sense or they are illogical, etc, etc.
Thing is, the number 1 way to determine doctrine is by what the Bible teaches (Acts 17:11).
I don't downplay the use of logic but when it is exalted above what the Bible teaches then it is becomes as idol.
Peterlag
Well-known member
Lord does not mean God. And according to me there's no verse anywhere. Not in one verse or any verse that says we should believe or confess that Jesus is God. And again Lord does not mean God.
(Acts 2:36). God must have greater authority than Jesus in order to make him the "Lord." Christ would have already been the “Lord” if he was God—in which case God would not need to “make” him the "Lord." It's also taught that Jesus must be God because he's called the “Lord.” The Greek word for Lord is kurios and is a masculine title of respect and nobility, which is why we see many others besides God and Jesus being called the “Lord."
- Property owners are called the "Lord" (Matthew 20:8) kurios is “owner” in the NIV.
- Heads of households are called the "Lord" (Mark 13:35) kuriosis "owner."
- Slave owners were called the "Lord" (Matthew 10:24) kuriosis "master."
- Husbands were called the "Lord" (1 Peter 3:6) kurios is "master" in the NIV.
- A son called his father the "Lord" (Matthew 21:30) kuriosis "sir."
- The Roman Emperor was called the "Lord" (Acts 25:26) kurios is "His Majesty."
- Roman authorities were called the "Lord" (Matthew 27:63) kurios is "sir."
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Dizerner
Well-known member
A more accurate translation there would actually be "Father of the everlasting," that is the resurrection.
Dizerner
Well-known member
I'm not saying it's right, but you are missing the argument here.
Lord is how YHWH is translated in Greek, so it's contextual.
Dizerner
Well-known member
The logical problem is not being 100% of two different things, but rather 100% of two contradictory things, just to be clear.
However, I think the doctrine of Functional Kenosis solves this dilemma quite well. You can read about that here:
It does when the NT quotes from the OT about YHWH.
None of your examples have that. Your arguments are incredibly naive and weak, but that is what is expected from those who deny the Lord Jesus is God.
Nothing new.
Peterlag
Well-known member
What point am I missing? Both God and Jesus and a bunch of others are all called Lord which does not mean everyone is God.
Peterlag
Well-known member
The bottom line is there's no Trinity. The verses that are used to try to teach it are all taken out of context, or not understood how the words were used in the culture they were written in, or from a bad translation. It's an evil Catholic concept that was sold to the world mostly by the power of the sword.
See the first sentence in post 167.
Dizerner
Well-known member
No but if a passage is translating the OT, then Lord is not the usual use of the word Lord.
Words don't just have one definition, that's not how it works.
Dizerner
Well-known member
There are clearly three separate personages who interact relationally and all have divine attributes.
That's indisputable in Scripture.
How you interpret that FACT—well that's a matter of your prior theology.
Peterlag
Well-known member
There are many descriptions, titles, and names for God in the Bible and I would like to add God’s proper name is “Yahweh” which occurs more than 6,000 times in the Hebrew Old Testament and is generally translated as “LORD.” Peter’s teaching to the Jews on the Day of Pentecost says “God has made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you crucified.” (Acts 2:36). God must have greater authority than Jesus in order to make him the "Lord." Christ would have already been the “Lord” if he was God—in which case God would not need to “make” him the "Lord."
Dizerner
Well-known member
Just for clarity's sake, the Trinitarian doctrine is that Jesus actually gave up his divine privileges to suffer for us.
That is why they logically can be restored again.
Believe
Active member
We told you about Jesus, and you received the Holy Spirit and accepted our message. But you let some people tell you about another Jesus. Now you are ready to receive another spirit and accept a different message. 2 Corinthians 11:4
I glad to see that mature here are not falling for a different Jesus. False teaching about Jesus Christ could sound convincing enough to Christians to make them think those teachers should be listened to, and their portrayal of Christ accepted as "gospel". The truth, in other words.
We are given many warnings about this in the bible.
Now there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves. / Many will follow in their depravity, and because of them the way of truth will be defamed. / In their greed, these false teachers will exploit you with deceptive words. The longstanding verdict against them remains in force, and their destruction does not sleep. 2 Peter 2:1-3
Now I urge you, brothers, to watch out for those who create divisions and obstacles that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Turn away from them. / For such people are not serving our Lord Christ, but their own appetites. By smooth talk and flattery they deceive the hearts of the naive. Romans 16:17-18
I glad to see that mature here are not falling for a different Jesus. False teaching about Jesus Christ could sound convincing enough to Christians to make them think those teachers should be listened to, and their portrayal of Christ accepted as "gospel". The truth, in other words.
We are given many warnings about this in the bible.
Now there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves. / Many will follow in their depravity, and because of them the way of truth will be defamed. / In their greed, these false teachers will exploit you with deceptive words. The longstanding verdict against them remains in force, and their destruction does not sleep. 2 Peter 2:1-3
Now I urge you, brothers, to watch out for those who create divisions and obstacles that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Turn away from them. / For such people are not serving our Lord Christ, but their own appetites. By smooth talk and flattery they deceive the hearts of the naive. Romans 16:17-18
101G
Well-known member
Lol, no, ... it don't ...... as a matter of fact it support the doctrine 101G believes in. John 14:23 "Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him."
Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth."
GOD: H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym (el-o-heem') n-m.
אֱלֹהֵי 'elohiy (el-o-hee') [alternate plural]
1. (literally) supreme ones.
2. (hence, in the ordinary sense) gods.
3. (specifically, in the plural, especially with the article) the Supreme God (i.e. the all supreme).
4. (sometimes) supreme, used as a superlative.
5. (occasionally, by way of deference) supreme magistrates, the highest magistrates of the land.
6. (also) the supreme angels (entities of unspecified type).
[plural of H433]
KJV: angels, X exceeding, God (gods)(-dess, -ly), X (very) great, judges, X mighty.
Root(s): H433
[plural of H433]? YES, a plurality of ...... "HIMSELF". yes, "HIMSELF" let's see ...... "HIMSELF",
H433 אֱלוֹהַּ 'elowahh (el-o'-ah) n-m.
אֱלֹהַּ 'eloahh (el-o'-ah) [shortened (rarely)]
1. one with supreme strength and ability.
2. the Supreme Being, God the Creator, Yahweh by name.
3. a supreme entity, a god-like creature (that is, one of God's supreme creations, or one of man's inventions).
[probably prolonged (emphat.) from H410]
KJV: God, god.
Root(s): H410
LOL, LOL, LOL, LOL, thanks Fred, because if you have GOD: H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym (el-o-heem') as a separate Person from ... GOD H433 אֱלוֹהַּ 'elowahh (el-o'-ah) ... YOU HAVE TWO "GODS" not two person......
YIKES!!!!!Fred... you have two Gods. this is why your doctrine is false. this is bible.
God #1. H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym (el-o-heem' THAT IS [plural of H433]OF
God. #2. H433 אֱלוֹהַּ 'elowahh (el-o'-ah)
you have two Gods and don't even know it... what a shame....... but the GOOD NEWS is that 101G has told you now..... and before. ... (smile).
101G.
civic
Well-known member
Biblical proof for His Deity above
Peterlag
Well-known member
The Jews would not have considered Jesus a threat, but insane...
if he had walked around saying he was God. But it was a threat for Jesus to claim to be the Messiah of God and also walk around doing miracles. Jesus had not been claiming to be God in the flesh and this is why the Jews never asked him at his trial if he was God in the flesh, but instead they asked him about what he had been claiming to be, which was the Messiah. Mark 14:61-62 records the High Priest asking “Are you the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?"And Jesus said "I am.” The High Priest tore his garments and said he deserved to be put to death when Jesus stated he was the Messiah. So we see that the Jews correctly assessed that Jesus had been claiming to be the Christ, and that Jesus indeed said he was the Christ, and also that the Jews thought his claim was worthy of the death penalty.
if he had walked around saying he was God. But it was a threat for Jesus to claim to be the Messiah of God and also walk around doing miracles. Jesus had not been claiming to be God in the flesh and this is why the Jews never asked him at his trial if he was God in the flesh, but instead they asked him about what he had been claiming to be, which was the Messiah. Mark 14:61-62 records the High Priest asking “Are you the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?"And Jesus said "I am.” The High Priest tore his garments and said he deserved to be put to death when Jesus stated he was the Messiah. So we see that the Jews correctly assessed that Jesus had been claiming to be the Christ, and that Jesus indeed said he was the Christ, and also that the Jews thought his claim was worthy of the death penalty.
