A Question concerning 2 John 1:7

[Pancho Frijoles]

There is no spiritual situation. The Spirit was given to Israel, and that gift was given to begin the promise to three thousand Jews on the Jewish Feast of Harvest. Every day Christ added thousands of Jews to His Church daily such as should be saved and those that should be saved and were saved were ALL Jews. One day there were five thousand Jews born again. Gentiles did not celebrate the Feast of Harvest. They were not interested nor were they invited by God.

Dear readers

What this Forum member displays is a racist-based ideology, probably psychopathic, disguised as Theology.
According to this ideology

• God does not love the Chinese
• God does not ask his children to love the Chinese
• God is not the Father of the Chinese
• Chinese have no spiritual situation whatsoever.
• Chinese have no future in eternity. Their lives are as short of that of a dog or a pig, which have "no spiritual situation".
• Chinese can properly be called "dogs" or "swine".

The conclusion of this is that Chinese (or Congolese, or Australians, or anyone without Jew genes) are sub-humans.
Genocides have been preceded by a discourse in which the enemies are not seen as humans, but as sub-humans.
During the Second World War, Jews were not humans before Nazi's eyes. They were called rats.
During the Rwandan Genocide, Tutsis were not humans before Hutu's eyes. They were called cockroaches.

So, I respectfully ask the @Administrator to consider again whether the discourse of @jeremiah1five is one that helps to preserve the safety and security of people of all races, ethnicities and religions in this Forum.
My apologies for bothering you once again, dear @Administrator.

It is true that @jeremiah1five has not made a direct call to arrest or kill a non-Jewish person... but nazis and hutus also didn't make that call either, when they started. What they did first is to spread a discourse that prepared the scene to allow good people to remain indifferent when violence started.
In the end, one could ask: what is wrong with treating swine like swine, rats like rats, and cockroaches as cockroaches?

If you want more evidence, @jeremiah1five has said that Jesus called to "shoot the wolves". He posted a photo with a wolf being in the sights of a shooter, in indirect reference to me and people who think like me (see links below). In this Forum, 99% of people do not think like him and probably do not have documented Jew ethnicity, so the threat is for all of us.

Please do not minimize the threat. The massive shootings in the schools of the US are preceded by signs of people who feel isolated, rejected, and that express hatred through hate discourses.

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/the-biblical-doctrine-of-love.2100/post-123600).
https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/are-we-under-any-covenants.1539/post-113716

 

[Peterlag]

'For many deceivers are entered into the world,
who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh.
This is a deceiver and an antichrist'
(2John 1:7)

Hello there,

Is John referring to the Gnostics of his day in 2 John 1:7?

* I read that:- 'The Gnostics believed that the physical body of Jesus was not real but only appeared to be physical. Their claim was, and remains, that His spirit descended upon Him at baptism and then departed His body just prior to His crucifixion.' (quote)

* The verses that follow instruct believers as to how to deal with such a company:-

'Look to yourselves,
that we lose not those things which we have wrought,
but that we receive a full reward.
.. Whosoever transgresseth,
.... and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ,
...... hath not God.
........ He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ,
.......... he hath both the Father and the Son.
..If there come any unto you,
.... and bring not this doctrine,
...... receive him not into your house,
........ neither bid him God speed:'
.......... For he that biddeth him God speed
............ is partaker of his evil deeds.'
(2John 1:8-11)

* I was of the impression that this referred to such as Jehovah's Witnesses, who deny the deity of Christ, for in doing so they also are not abiding in the doctrine of Christ, are they?

Thank you in anticipation,
In Christ Jesus
Chris

The Gnostics were very much on John's mind when he wrote 2 John. Jesus who is the son of God, the Christ... God's Anointed, and the Messiah to Isreal and then to the Christian came in the flesh being born on the planet. I believe the verse is saying if you do not believe this than you are not working for God, but rather the devil.

 

[mikesw]

I've not checked into the history of Gnosticism but had heard that Gnoticism had not developed by the time of John's epistles. It seems the Platonic-minded people might have appreciated the idea of the divinity of Christ but only by denying that Christ was incarnate. The idea of God being in the flesh would be impossible possibly of the idea of going from perfection to imperfection. It would be sort of a backwards direction of going from the idea invisible form to the inexact physical version of that perfect invisible and ideal form. It would be like someone paying top dollar for a totaled Ferrari rather than getting a pristine one fresh from the manufacturer.
It seems possible that this belief could occur while predating the dominant elements of Gnosticism --which seems to be of having hidden knowledge ... of ideas that had not been revealed earlier in Christianity.

The true knowledge is that Christ humbled himself by becoming incarnate -- doing what people would think is incomprehensible. This is the love God has shown to the world to those who will accept his gift.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Dear readers

What this Forum member displays is a racist-based ideology, probably psychopathic, disguised as Theology.
According to this ideolog

• God does not love the Chinese
• God does not ask his children to love the Chinese
• God is not the Father of the Chinese
• Chinese have no spiritual situation whatsoever.
• Chinese have no future in eternity. Their lives are as short of that of a dog or a pig, which have "no spiritual situation".
• Chinese can properly be called "dogs" or "swine".

The conclusion of this is that Chinese (or Congolese, or Australians, or anyone without Jew genes) are sub-humans.
Genocides have been preceded by a discourse in which the enemies are not seen as humans, but as sub-humans.
During the Second World War, Jews were not humans before Nazi's eyes. They were called rats.
During the Rwandan Genocide, Tutsis were not humans before Hutu's eyes. They were called cockroaches.

So, I respectfully ask the @Administrator to consider again whether the discourse of @jeremiah1five is one that helps to preserve the safety and security of people of all races, ethnicities and religions in this Forum.
My apologies for bothering you once again, dear @Administrator.

It is true that @jeremiah1five has not made a direct call to arrest or kill a non-Jewish person... but nazis and hutus also didn't make that call either, when they started. What they did first is to spread a discourse that prepared the scene to allow good people to remain indifferent when violence started.
In the end, one could ask: what is wrong with treating swine like swine, rats like rats, and cockroaches as cockroaches?

If you want more evidence, @jeremiah1five has said that Jesus called to "shoot the wolves". He posted a photo with a wolf being in the sights of a shooter, in indirect reference to me and people who think like me (see links below). In this Forum, 99% of people do not think like him and probably do not have documented Jew ethnicity, so the threat is for all of us.

Please do not minimize the threat. The massive shootings in the schools of the US are preceded by signs of people who feel isolated, rejected, and that express hatred through hate discourses.

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/the-biblical-doctrine-of-love.2100/post-123600).
https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/are-we-under-any-covenants.1539/post-113716

 

[civic]

I've not checked into the history of Gnosticism but had heard that Gnoticism had not developed by the time of John's epistles. It seems the Platonic-minded people might have appreciated the idea of the divinity of Christ but only by denying that Christ was incarnate. The idea of God being in the flesh would be impossible possibly of the idea of going from perfection to imperfection. It would be sort of a backwards direction of going from the idea invisible form to the inexact physical version of that perfect invisible and ideal form. It would be like someone paying top dollar for a totaled Ferrari rather than getting a pristine one fresh from the manufacturer.
It seems possible that this belief could occur while predating the dominant elements of Gnosticism --which seems to be of having hidden knowledge ... of ideas that had not been revealed earlier in Christianity.

The true knowledge is that Christ humbled himself by becoming incarnate -- doing what people would think is incomprehensible. This is the love God has shown to the world to those who will accept his gift.

yes the gnostics denied that God could coexist in flesh so the Incarnation was rejected by them since the flesh and matter was evil. They like the JW's also denied the bodily Resurrection of Jesus therefor denying the gospel.

Gnosticism was perhaps the most dangerous heresy that threatened the early church during the first three centuries. Influenced by such philosophers as Plato, Gnosticism is based on two false premises. First, it espouses a dualism regarding spirit and matter. Gnostics assert that matter is inherently evil and spirit is good. As a result of this presupposition, Gnostics believe anything done in the body, even the grossest sin, has no meaning because real life exists in the spirit realm only.

Second, Gnostics claim to possess an elevated knowledge, a “higher truth” known only to a certain few. Gnosticism comes from the Greek word gnosis which means “to know.” Gnostics claim to possess a higher knowledge, not from the Bible, but acquired on some mystical higher plane of existence. Gnostics see themselves as a privileged class elevated above everybody else by their higher, deeper knowledge of God.

To discredit the idea of any compatibility between Christianity and Gnosticism, one has only to compare their teachings on the main doctrines of the faith. On the matter of salvation, Gnosticism teaches that salvation is gained through the acquisition of divine knowledge which frees one from the illusions of darkness. Although they claim to follow Jesus Christ and His original teachings, Gnostics contradict Him at every turn. Jesus said nothing about salvation through knowledge, but by faith in Him as Savior from sin. “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast” (Ephesians 2:8-9). Furthermore, the salvation Christ offers is free and available to everyone (John 3:16), not just a select few who have acquired a special revelation.

Christianity asserts that there is one source of Truth and that is the Bible, the inspired, inerrant Word of the living God, the only infallible rule of faith and practice (John 17:17; 2 Timothy 3:15-17; Hebrews 4:12). It is God’s written revelation to mankind and is never superseded by man’s thoughts, ideas, writings, or visions. The Gnostics, on the other hand, use a variety of early heretical writings known as the Gnostic gospels, a collection of forgeries claiming to be “lost books of the Bible.” Thankfully, the early church fathers were nearly unanimous in recognizing these Gnostic scrolls as fraudulent forgeries that espouse false doctrines about Jesus Christ, salvation, God, and every other crucial Christian truth. There are countless contradictions between the Gnostic “gospels” and the Bible. Even when the so-called Christian Gnostics quote from the Bible, they rewrite verses and parts of verses to harmonize with their philosophy, a practice that is strictly forbidden and warned against by Scripture (Deuteronomy 4:2; 12:32; Proverbs 30:6; Revelation 22:18-19).

The Person of Jesus Christ is another area where Christianity and Gnosticism drastically differ. The Gnostics believe that Jesus’ physical body was not real, but only “seemed” to be physical, and that His spirit descended upon Him at His baptism, but left Him just before His crucifixion. Such views destroy not only the true humanity of Jesus, but also the atonement, for Jesus must not only have been truly God, but also the truly human (and physically real) man who actually suffered and died upon the cross in order to be the acceptable substitutionary sacrifice for sin (Hebrews 2:14-17). The biblical view of Jesus affirms His complete humanity as well as His full deity.

Gnosticism is based on a mystical, intuitive, subjective, inward, emotional approach to truth which is not new at all. It is very old, going back in some form to the Garden of Eden, where Satan questioned God and the words He spoke and convinced Adam and Eve to reject them and accept a lie. He does the same thing today as he “prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour” (1 Peter 5:8). He still calls God and the Bible into question and catches in his web those who are either naïve and scripturally uninformed or who are seeking some personal revelation to make them feel special, unique, and superior to others. Let us follow the Apostle Paul who said to “test everything. Hold on to the good” (1 Thessalonians 5:21), and this we do by comparing everything to the Word of God, the only Truth.got?

hope this helps !!!

 

[mikesw]

yes the gnostics denied that God could coexist in flesh so the Incarnation was rejected by them since the flesh and matter was evil. They like the JW's also denied the bodily Resurrection of Jesus therefor denying the gospel.

Gnosticism was perhaps the most dangerous heresy that threatened the early church during the first three centuries. Influenced by such philosophers as Plato, Gnosticism is based on two false premises. First, it espouses a dualism regarding spirit and matter. Gnostics assert that matter is inherently evil and spirit is good. As a result of this presupposition, Gnostics believe anything done in the body, even the grossest sin, has no meaning because real life exists in the spirit realm only.

Second, Gnostics claim to possess an elevated knowledge, a “higher truth” known only to a certain few. Gnosticism comes from the Greek word gnosis which means “to know.” Gnostics claim to possess a higher knowledge, not from the Bible, but acquired on some mystical higher plane of existence. Gnostics see themselves as a privileged class elevated above everybody else by their higher, deeper knowledge of God.

...


Gnosticism is based on a mystical, intuitive, subjective, inward, emotional approach to truth which is not new at all. It is very old, going back in some form to the Garden of Eden, where Satan questioned God and the words He spoke and convinced Adam and Eve to reject them and accept a lie. He does the same thing today as he “prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour” (1 Peter 5:8). He still calls God and the Bible into question and catches in his web those who are either naïve and scripturally uninformed or who are seeking some personal revelation to make them feel special, unique, and superior to others. Let us follow the Apostle Paul who said to “test everything. Hold on to the good” (1 Thessalonians 5:21), and this we do by comparing everything to the Word of God, the only Truth.got?

hope this helps !!!

I was sharing the sense of Gnosticism as a later development or as more clarified in later centuries. That is why I suggested that Plato's concepts could distract people in the first century from the doctrine about Christ. Christ could have been initially perceived as an ideal by non-Christians (fake Christians). So they could then blend the Platonic concepts into that with the resultant idea that God the Son could not become incarnate. There would have to be some alternative sense behind the nature or identity Christ. So some people would claim their idea of a purer form of who Christ could be. I think it is more of a reductionism or rationalism rather than hidden knowledge.
So I just offer a basis for possible refinement of ideas.

Study of Gnostic documents themselves has become much more precise since the discovery in 1945 near Nag Hammadi, Egypt, of a collection of Gnostic and non-Gnostic documents written in Coptic. The discovery has greatly expanded knowledge of the Gnostics and has served to verify much of what Irenaeus said. The collection overall dates from the middle of the fourth century CE, but many of the documents appear to be translations of earlier originals from Greek (and in a smaller number of cases, perhaps from Syriac), with the original writings going back to the second or third century

Walter F. Taylor Jr., Paul: Apostle to the Nations: An Introduction ( Fortress Press, 2012), 74.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Dear readers
What this Forum member displays is a racist-based ideology, probably psychopathic, disguised as Theology.
According to this ideology

What I present is the Scripture as written and rightly divided. I hold that when the Abraham Covenant was made and later recorded by Moses that God made covenant with Abram the Hebrew (Gen. 14:13) and with his Hebrew seed. His Hebrew seed is identified as the family line of Eber from which we get the word "Hebrew," and since both Abram and Sarai were uncle and niece and married, their children (Isaac) was wholly Hebrew who also married in the family. When God made covenant with Abram the Hebrew there were no non-Hebrews in this covenant. NONE. I have also challenged everyone here - including you, a follower of a false eastern religion to use the Scripture in Genesis 12, 15, and 17 to show in the text of the Abraham Covenant God making mention or naming non-Hebrew Gentiles as included in this covenant and NO ONE has in this past year provided Scripture from this covenant as recorded by Moses (also a Hebrew) to show the world God making covenant with non-Hebrew Gentiles.
God made no covenant with non-Hebrew Gentiles.
NONE.
And so, the adding of non-Hebrew Gentiles in any of the three Hebrew covenants (Abraham, Mosaic, New) is a false Constantinian Gentile contrivance based upon misinterpretation of the New Covenant writings from Matthew to Revelation that breaks Scripture and violates the Word of God as written in the Hebrew Scripture. If there is no Old Testament precedence, then there is no New Testament reality. And THAT is the bottom line.
There is no evidence that God included non-Hebrew Gentiles in any of the three Hebrew Covenants which means non-Hebrew Gentiles do not have any inheritance through Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and Jacob's children, a people known in Scripture and in reality, as the children of Israel. And if there is no covenant between God and non-Hebrews recorded in the Hebrew Scripture, then the only conclusion that can rightly be reached is that non-Hebrew Gentiles are outside of the Hebrew Covenants and do not have salvation of their souls given or offered to them of God.

• God does not love the Chinese

God loves the children of Israel.

• God does not ask his children to love the Chinese

Correct. The command of God to the children of Israel on the subject of love is found in Leviticus and upheld by Jesus Christ.

• God is not the Father of the Chinese

Correct. Ham and Japheth are the father of the Gentile Chinese.

• Chinese have no spiritual situation whatsoever.

Correct. The Holy Spirit of Promise as promised to the children of Israel by the prophet Joel and mentioned by Peter in Acts 2 is a prophecy and promise given to Israel - NOT GENTILES.

• Chinese have no future in eternity. Their lives are as short of that of a dog or a pig, which have "no spiritual situation".

Correct.

• Chinese can properly be called "dogs" or "swine".

Correct.

The conclusion of this is that Chinese (or Congolese, or Australians, or anyone without Jew genes) are sub-humans.

God elevated the children of Israel who are the seed of Abraham ABOVE ALL FAMILIES that are on the face of the earth.

PROOF:
6 For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth. Deuteronomy 7:6.

Genocides have been preceded by a discourse in which the enemies are not seen as humans, but as sub-humans.
During the Second World War, Jews were not humans before Nazi's eyes. They were called rats.
During the Rwandan Genocide, Tutsis were not humans before Hutu's eyes. They were called cockroaches.

So, I respectfully ask the @Administrator to consider again whether the discourse of @jeremiah1five is one that helps to preserve the safety and security of people of all races, ethnicities and religions in this Forum.
My apologies for bothering you once again, dear @Administrator.

It is true that @jeremiah1five has not made a direct call to arrest or kill a non-Jewish person... but nazis and hutus also didn't make that call either, when they started. What they did first is to spread a discourse that prepared the scene to allow good people to remain indifferent when violence started.
In the end, one could ask: what is wrong with treating swine like swine, rats like rats, and cockroaches as cockroaches?

If you want more evidence, @jeremiah1five has said that Jesus called to "shoot the wolves". He posted a photo with a wolf being in the sights of a shooter, in indirect reference to me and people who think like me (see links below). In this Forum, 99% of people do not think like him and probably do not have documented Jew ethnicity, so the threat is for all of us.

Scripture proof:

11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh. Revelation 19:11–21.

It is an incredible thing for you to say God loves the Chinese or the Congolese and yet when Christ returns, He is destroying the very people you say He loves. THAT is NOT love. Those whom God loves He saves. Those God does not love He allows to remain in their sin which is their condemnation as declared by Christ in John 3.

Please do not minimize the threat. The massive shootings in the schools of the US are preceded by signs of people who feel isolated, rejected, and that express hatred through hate discourses.

Sin is sin and what we all witness in events like this and other expressions of hatred towards God by those that do not love God are signs of sin and unrepented sin. God is Sovereign over His creation, and He will bring His plan for His Chosen people to a glorious conclusion. Your thoughts are not His thoughts, and your ways are not His ways.
God will do all His good pleasure despite your inability to knowing His will because your sin has blinded you to His truth. God knows the end from the beginning BECAUSE He has ordained the end. And in the end the prayer of God's people shall be fulfilled: "THY WILL BE DONE on earth as it is in heaven."
Amen.

Do you have a problem with that?