As verse 13 points out regeneration has nothing to do with the will of man. Your will plays no part.
"No one calls Christ Lord but by the Spirit"
"Flesh does not give birth to Spirit'
God is the mechanism of salvation. Regeneration is the means.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
A Favorite Reformed Doctrine
- Thread starter The Rogue Tomato
- Start date
"No one calls Christ Lord but by the Spirit"
"Flesh does not give birth to Spirit'
God is the mechanism of salvation. Regeneration is the means.
Oh, so you should not repeat yourself? That's rich coming from you.You are just repeating yourself
Nothing you say address the many scriptures which places faith before regeneration
You were dishonest.Nope. What you believe is clear.
You used quotes claiming I said something.If I were quoting your words exactly from a post you made, then I would use the forum feature that enables you to do that.
You always preach the "gospel"... (Notice the little g and the "quotes"........) that begins with YOU.
So Mr honesty, show me the source of your direct quote or repent.
The difference is you cannot address those scriptures while I can address yoursOh, so you should not repeat yourself? That's rich coming from you.
Seeing as man does not regenerate himself your comment is irrelevantAs verse 13 points out regeneration has nothing to do with the will of man. Your will plays no part.
"No one calls Christ Lord but by the Spirit"
"Flesh does not give birth to Spirit'
God is the mechanism of salvation. Regeneration is the means.
The issue is belief
The bible puts faith before regeneration refuting your theology
and as above no one hold that man rebirths himself
God does when he believes John 1:12; Gal 3:26
and seeing as you affirm regeneration as salvation you are refuted as faith precedes salvation
You are touting an unbiblical doctrine
No it don't. NOWHERE does it say faith precedes regenerationSeeing as man does not regenerate himself your comment is irrelevant
The issue is belief
The bible puts faith before regeneration refuting your theology
and as above no one hold that man rebirths himself
God does when he believes John 1:12; Gal 3:26
and seeing as you affirm regeneration as salvation you are refuted as faith precedes salvation
You are touting an unbiblical doctrine
Regeneration is the means, it's not salvation itself.
Here some tough ones for you.
1)Did you call Christ Lord without the Spurit?
2) Did you in the flesh give birth to Spiritual life?
3) Did you in the flesh do something good or pleasing to God? Such as believing.
What is there to address? Your cult like proof texting? When you offer some exegesis to each text then I will be happy to. When you don't offer context, author, purpose, historical setting and so on. Otherwise your wasting my time and have nothing to offer bur parroting what your heard on some dumb Provisionist pod cast.The difference is you cannot address those scriptures while I can address yours
CopoutWhat is there to address? Your cult like proof texting? When you offer some exegesis to each text then I will be happy to. When you don't offer context, author, purpose, historical setting and so on. Otherwise your wasting my time and have nothing to offer bur parroting what your heard on some dumb Provisionist pod cast.
How much exegesis did you offer with your verses. You did not even give the whole reference
How much exegesis do you require to see
John 20:31 (ESV) — 31 but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.
belief precedes life
All of it especially when you don't have any. You don't even know how. Cult like proof testers are all the same.Copout
How much exegesis did you offer with your verses. You did not even give the whole reference
How much exegesis do you require to see
John 20:31 (ESV) — 31 but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.
belief precedes life
Sorry but you are in denialNo it don't. NOWHERE does it say faith precedes regeneration
Regeneration is the means, it's not salvation itself.
Here some tough ones for you.
1)Did you call Christ Lord without the Spurit?
2) Did you in the flesh give birth to Spiritual life?
3) Did you in the flesh do something good or pleasing to God? Such as believing.
regeneration is the impartation of life
And it is clear the bible posits faith before life
John 20:31 (ESV) — 31 but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.
John 3:36 (ESV) — 36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.
John 5:40 (ESV) — 40 yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life.
John 6:53 (ESV) — 53 So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you.
your verses have been answered while you dodge those verses contrary to your view
you simply ignore the fact no one believes they birth themselves
and scripture shows men capable of believing (more verses you ignore)
John 12:40 (KJV 1900) — 40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.
God blinded men to prevent their belief. Why would God blind someone who had no ability to see?
Why prevent from believing those who had no capacity for belief
Luke notes had men not grown hardened they could have believed
Acts 28:27 (KJV 1900) — 27 For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
Jesus clearly states he hides truth for some as otherwise they would repent and be forgiven
Mark 4:10–12 (ESV) — 10 And when he was alone, those around him with the twelve asked him about the parables. 11 And he said to them, “To you has been given the secret of the kingdom of God, but for those outside everything is in parables, 12 so that “ ‘they may indeed see but not perceive, and may indeed hear but not understand, lest they should turn and be forgiven.’ ”
unregenerate men are shown to receive the word with joy and believe
Luke 8:13 (KJV 1900) — 13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.
Mat 11:21-24 Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works, which were done in you, had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. 22 But I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the day of judgment, than for you. 23 And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.
The adversary steals the word away so men will not believe
Luke 8:11–12 (KJV 1900) — 11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. 12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.
What need is there to steal away a word which cannot be believed?
John 1:6–7 (KJV 1900) — 6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
John the apostle believes the testimony of John the Baptist is sufficient for faith.
John 5:45–47 (KJV 1900) — 45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust. 46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. 47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?
John 4:39 (KJV 1900) — 39 And many of the Samaritans of that city believed on him for the saying of the woman, which testified, He told me all that ever I did.
How much exegesis is needed to see men believed based upon the woman's testimony
John 17:20 (KJV 1900) — 20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
men will be able to believe based on the apostle's testimony
John 20:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
The reading of scripture is sufficient for belief
2 Timothy 3:15 (NIV) — 15 and how from infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.
Ephesians 3:4–11 (NIV) — 4 In reading this, then, you will be able to understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, 5 which was not made known to people in other generations as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to God’s holy apostles and prophets. 6 This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus. 7 I became a servant of this gospel by the gift of God’s grace given me through the working of his power. 8 Although I am less than the least of all the Lord’s people, this grace was given me: to preach to the Gentiles the boundless riches of Christ, 9 and to make plain to everyone the administration of this mystery, which for ages past was kept hidden in God, who created all things. 10 His intent was that now, through the church, the manifold wisdom of God should be made known to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly realms, 11 according to his eternal purpose that he accomplished in Christ Jesus our Lord.
As is the preaching of it.
Romans 10:10–17 (KJV 1900) — 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. 12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. 14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! 16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? 17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Acts 28:23–24 (KJV 1900) — 23 And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening. 24 And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not.
John 7:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 And many of the people believed on him, and said, When Christ cometh, will he do more miracles than these which this man hath done?
Miracles have power to bring about faith
finally
Verse 3. No man speaking by the Spirit of God] It was granted on all hands that there could be no religion without Divine inspiration, because God alone, could make his will known to men: hence heathenism pretended to this inspiration; Judaism had it in the law and the prophets; and it was the very essence of the Christian religion. The heathen priests and priestesses pretended to receive, by inspiration from their god, the answers which they gave to their votaries. And as far as the people believed their pretensions, so far they were led by their teaching.
Both Judaism and heathenism were full of expectations of a future teacher and deliverer; and to this person, especially among the Jews, the Spirit in all the prophets gave witness. This was the Anointed One, the Messiah who was manifested in the person of Jesus of Nazareth; and him the Jews rejected, though he proved his Divine mission both by his doctrines and his miracles. But as he did not come as they fancied he would—as a mighty secular conqueror, they not only rejected but blasphemed him; and persons among them professing to be spiritual men, and under the influence of the Spirit of God, did so. But as the Holy Spirit, through all the law and the prophets gave testimony to the Messiah, and as Jesus proved himself to be the Christ both by his miracles and doctrines, no man under the inspiration of the Divine Spirit could say to him anathema—thou art a deceiver, and a person worthy of death, &c., as the Jews did: therefore the Jews were no longer under the inspiration of the Spirit of God. This appears to be the meaning of the apostle in this place: No man speaking by the Spirit, &c.
And that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord] Nor can we demonstrate this person to be the Messiah and the Saviour of men, but by the Holy Ghost, enabling us to speak with divers tongues, to work miracles; he attesting the truth of our doctrines to them that hear, by enlightening their minds, changing their hearts, and filling them with the peace and love of God.1
LaughableAll of it especially when you don't have any. You don't even know how. Cult like proof testers are all the same.
I exegeted Romans 9, Eph 1, John 6:44, john 6:29 and john 20:31 multiple times
Rather you have no idea how to exegete scripture and simply dodge
and offer excuses
No you didn't. Posting it and saying this is what it means is not exegesis.Laughable
I exegeted Romans 9, Eph 1, John 6:44, john 6:29 and john 20:31 multiple times
Rather you have no idea how to exegete scripture and simply dodge
and offer excuses
This is not about me
Your the self proclaimed know it all. So by all means teach me how to properly exegete. Try John 6 verse 1 and walk me through.
Sorry but you are in denial
regeneration is the impartation of life
And it is clear the bible posits faith before life
John 20:31 (ESV) — 31 but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.
John 3:36 (ESV) — 36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.
John 5:40 (ESV) — 40 yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life.
John 6:53 (ESV) — 53 So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you.
your verses have been answered while you dodge those verses contrary to your view
you simply ignore the fact no one believes they birth themselves
and scripture shows men capable of believing (more verses you ignore)
John 12:40 (KJV 1900) — 40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.
God blinded men to prevent their belief. Why would God blind someone who had no ability to see?
Why prevent from believing those who had no capacity for belief
Luke notes had men not grown hardened they could have believed
Acts 28:27 (KJV 1900) — 27 For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
Jesus clearly states he hides truth for some as otherwise they would repent and be forgiven
Mark 4:10–12 (ESV) — 10 And when he was alone, those around him with the twelve asked him about the parables. 11 And he said to them, “To you has been given the secret of the kingdom of God, but for those outside everything is in parables, 12 so that “ ‘they may indeed see but not perceive, and may indeed hear but not understand, lest they should turn and be forgiven.’ ”
unregenerate men are shown to receive the word with joy and believe
Luke 8:13 (KJV 1900) — 13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.
Mat 11:21-24 Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works, which were done in you, had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. 22 But I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the day of judgment, than for you. 23 And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.
The adversary steals the word away so men will not believe
Luke 8:11–12 (KJV 1900) — 11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. 12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.
What need is there to steal away a word which cannot be believed?
John 1:6–7 (KJV 1900) — 6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
John the apostle believes the testimony of John the Baptist is sufficient for faith.
John 5:45–47 (KJV 1900) — 45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust. 46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. 47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?
John 4:39 (KJV 1900) — 39 And many of the Samaritans of that city believed on him for the saying of the woman, which testified, He told me all that ever I did.
How much exegesis is needed to see men believed based upon the woman's testimony
John 17:20 (KJV 1900) — 20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
men will be able to believe based on the apostle's testimony
John 20:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
The reading of scripture is sufficient for belief
2 Timothy 3:15 (NIV) — 15 and how from infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.
Ephesians 3:4–11 (NIV) — 4 In reading this, then, you will be able to understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, 5 which was not made known to people in other generations as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to God’s holy apostles and prophets. 6 This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus. 7 I became a servant of this gospel by the gift of God’s grace given me through the working of his power. 8 Although I am less than the least of all the Lord’s people, this grace was given me: to preach to the Gentiles the boundless riches of Christ, 9 and to make plain to everyone the administration of this mystery, which for ages past was kept hidden in God, who created all things. 10 His intent was that now, through the church, the manifold wisdom of God should be made known to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly realms, 11 according to his eternal purpose that he accomplished in Christ Jesus our Lord.
As is the preaching of it.
Romans 10:10–17 (KJV 1900) — 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. 12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. 14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! 16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? 17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Acts 28:23–24 (KJV 1900) — 23 And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening. 24 And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not.
John 7:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 And many of the people believed on him, and said, When Christ cometh, will he do more miracles than these which this man hath done?
Miracles have power to bring about faith
finally
Verse 3. No man speaking by the Spirit of God] It was granted on all hands that there could be no religion without Divine inspiration, because God alone, could make his will known to men: hence heathenism pretended to this inspiration; Judaism had it in the law and the prophets; and it was the very essence of the Christian religion. The heathen priests and priestesses pretended to receive, by inspiration from their god, the answers which they gave to their votaries. And as far as the people believed their pretensions, so far they were led by their teaching.
Both Judaism and heathenism were full of expectations of a future teacher and deliverer; and to this person, especially among the Jews, the Spirit in all the prophets gave witness. This was the Anointed One, the Messiah who was manifested in the person of Jesus of Nazareth; and him the Jews rejected, though he proved his Divine mission both by his doctrines and his miracles. But as he did not come as they fancied he would—as a mighty secular conqueror, they not only rejected but blasphemed him; and persons among them professing to be spiritual men, and under the influence of the Spirit of God, did so. But as the Holy Spirit, through all the law and the prophets gave testimony to the Messiah, and as Jesus proved himself to be the Christ both by his miracles and doctrines, no man under the inspiration of the Divine Spirit could say to him anathema—thou art a deceiver, and a person worthy of death, &c., as the Jews did: therefore the Jews were no longer under the inspiration of the Spirit of God. This appears to be the meaning of the apostle in this place: No man speaking by the Spirit, &c.
And that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord] Nor can we demonstrate this person to be the Messiah and the Saviour of men, but by the Holy Ghost, enabling us to speak with divers tongues, to work miracles; he attesting the truth of our doctrines to them that hear, by enlightening their minds, changing their hearts, and filling them with the peace and love
None of this address my question which have apparently put you in dodge mode.
My work is done here. I will check back to see if any of your fellow obsessed haters care to give it a shot.
Good day sir.
Sorry I did far more than that. Running references and citing lexical data and correlating with other scriptures allowing scripture to interpret scriptureNo you didn't. Posting it and saying this is what it means is not exegesis.
This is not about me
Your the self proclaimed know it all. So by all means teach me how to properly exegete. Try John 6 verse 1 and walk me through.
while you offer only bald denial and incomplete reference which you do nothing with
John 6:1 (ESV) — 1 After this Jesus went away to the other side of the Sea of Galilee, which is the Sea of Tiberias.
There is not much to exegete
after this
Jesus after the feast of the Jew at Jerusalem after having healed a blind man on the Sabbath
enraging the Jews who accused the blind man of working on the sabbath
who cited Jesus as being his authority for carrying his bed
So the Jews persecute Jesus, who equates himself with the father
and in turn Jesus castigates them for their unbelief in not believing the testimony of John the Baptist, Moses, the father's testimony regarding Jesus
after this Jesus went to the other side of the sea of Galilee
The Sea of Galilee is variously referred to in the Bible as the Sea of Tiberias, Lake of Genessaret, or the Sea of Chinnereth, It is a freshwater lake about thirty-two miles around, located in northern Palestine.
A large crown followed after him because of his healing work
You should cite your sourceSorry I did far more than that. Running references and citing lexical data and correlating with other scriptures allowing scripture to interpret scripture
while you offer only bald denial and incomplete reference which you do nothing with
John 6:1 (ESV) — 1 After this Jesus went away to the other side of the Sea of Galilee, which is the Sea of Tiberias.
There is not much to exegete
after this
Jesus after the feast of the Jew at Jerusalem after having healed a blind man on the Sabbath
enraging the Jews who accused the blind man of working on the sabbath
who cited Jesus as being his authority for carrying his bed
So the Jews persecute Jesus, who equates himself with the father
and in turn Jesus castigates them for their unbelief in not believing the testimony of John the Baptist, Moses, the father's testimony regarding Jesus
after this Jesus went to the other side of the sea of Galilee
The Sea of Galilee is variously referred to in the Bible as the Sea of Tiberias, Lake of Genessaret, or the Sea of Chinnereth, It is a freshwater lake about thirty-two miles around, located in northern Palestine.
A large crown followed after him because of his healing work
The gospel of John and a bible dictionary for the information on the sea of TiberiasYou should cite your source
Oh brother. LOLThe gospel of John and a bible dictionary for the information on the sea of Tiberias
Nice talking to you
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
Your right, I'm not looking to change anything. Who said I was.
Never claimed to laying the foundation of anything.
Is this post directed at someone else?
You do greatly error NOT KNOWING THE SCRIPTURES.....
1Co 3:10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
1Co 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
1Co 3:12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
1Co 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
If you're going to debate the Scriptures, you should know them first.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
You were dishonest.
Look, a misaligner talking about someone being dishonest?
You're running from your own beliefs.
Similar threads
- Replies
- 11
- Views
- 115
- Replies
- 131
- Views
- 2K
