A Favorite Reformed Doctrine

TomL said:
or believing on Christ

as the elect superior version (sic) states

John 1:12 (ESV) — 12 But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God,
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Receive and believe goes hand in glove-I don't have access to all the various Bible interpretations.

¶ He came to his own creation, [Or possessions] yet his own people did not receive him.
Joh 1:12 However, to all who received him, those believing in his name, he gave authority to become God’s children,
Joh 1:13 who were born, not merely in a genetic sense, [Lit. not of bloods] nor from lust, [Lit. from desire of the flesh] nor from man’s desire, but from the will of [The Gk. lacks the will of] God.

Joh 1:12 But to all who did accept Him, and trust in His name, He gave the right to become the children of God,
Joh 1:13 who were born of God and not of natural blood nor of physical or human impulse.

Transliteration: elabon
Morphology: V-AIA-1S
Verb - Aorist Indicative Active - 1st Person Singular
Strong's no.: G2983 (λαμβάνω)
Meaning: (a) to receive, get, (b) to take, lay hold of.--denoting the point in time of receiving/believing Messiah

πιστεύουσιν
Transliteration: pisteuousin
Morphology: V-PIA-3P
Verb - Present Indicative Active - 3rd Person Plural-->Denoting the ongoing state of both believing and receiving eis/into Messiah
Strong's no.: G4100 (πιστεύω)
Meaning: To believe, have faith in, trust in; pass: to be entrusted with.
 
Kenny said:
It is wonderful the way God works through us to show His love to others. I deal with a lot of street people that are pretty beaten up by the world.
And it's pretty obvious to tell, You can just see the defeated look on their face. I've been there done that so it's easy for me to share my testimony and give them strength in a hope that what Jesus did for me he wants to do for them. It's all about encouragement. Encouragement to seek Jesus because he's the answer. He's what we've been all looking for all of our lives. That God shaped hole inside of each of us.

A new creation that's what I'm talking about. Behold old things have passed away and all have become new.
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Amen. I refer to this life as the "god experience"......

If you're free in this life to exercise your will, what would you do? In our minds, we can do most anything. Our "imaginations" rule our existence. In my view, God basically let Adam and Eve, have their way. This ended up creating like you said... "a God shaped hole" inside each of us. From the time we are born, we are endlessly seeking for things that never satisfy us. Over and over, we experience the finite results of our imaginations.

The "poor" in this world are "rich" in faith......

Thank God for the message of the Gospel where faithful people pass on their faith to others. "Faith to Faith" is where righteousness is revealed.
 
Presby02 said:
So are you.
Click to expand...

I'm talking to the you... the "roofer". I'm more than capable of discuss anything you want to discuss about this "house" you're building.

Why are you starting with YOU... as the foundation when no man can lay any other foundation than Jesus Christ?

Your message always starts with "God has chosen me". Always.
 
Presby02 said:
Verse 13 expounds on verse 12. Obviously it's not so favorable to your errant theology or you, having 40 years experience and all, would address it.
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wrong

John 1:11-13
He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. 12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.

1- He came to His own
2- His own did not receive Him
3- To all those who receive Him He gave
4- To those who believe in His name He gave
5- The right to become children of God
6- not born from natural descent, human decision, husbands will but born of God

follow the sequence Jesus taught above- the new birth is last in sequence after receive, believe, becoming a child of God via the new birth.

hope this helps !!!
 
praise_yeshua said:
I'm talking to the you... the "roofer". I'm more than capable of discuss anything you want to discuss about this "house" you're building.

Why are you starting with YOU... as the foundation when no man can lay any other foundation than Jesus Christ?

You message always starts with "God has chosen me". Always.
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yes in their theology man is more important than Christ- they are elect and bypass the Elect One- Christ.

in reality they are saved by their own works and not by faith. they project that onto non calvinists just like they twist the scriptures.
 
Presby02 said:
Where have I said man has no will? Quote me
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I'm not going to go back through every post you have made here. However, it is clear from what you've said that man can not operate apart from what is preordained.

Thusly, it is clear that your theology presents the narrative that man is controlled an unable to have his own will.

You basically falsely create a paradox wherein you claim man has this "theoretical will" but this "will" can never really operate of it's own accord. You teach it came from God and only operates according to God's will.

Any basically philosophical or Biblical discuss of "will"... REQURES freedom to act contrary to God.
 
Johann said:
Receive and believe goes hand in glove-I don't have access to all the various Bible interpretations.

¶ He came to his own creation, [Or possessions] yet his own people did not receive him.
Joh 1:12 However, to all who received him, those believing in his name, he gave authority to become God’s children,
Joh 1:13 who were born, not merely in a genetic sense, [Lit. not of bloods] nor from lust, [Lit. from desire of the flesh] nor from man’s desire, but from the will of [The Gk. lacks the will of] God.

Joh 1:12 But to all who did accept Him, and trust in His name, He gave the right to become the children of God,
Joh 1:13 who were born of God and not of natural blood nor of physical or human impulse.

Transliteration: elabon
Morphology: V-AIA-1S
Verb - Aorist Indicative Active - 1st Person Singular
Strong's no.: G2983 (λαμβάνω)
Meaning: (a) to receive, get, (b) to take, lay hold of.--denoting the point in time of receiving/believing Messiah

πιστεύουσιν
Transliteration: pisteuousin
Morphology: V-PIA-3P
Verb - Present Indicative Active - 3rd Person Plural-->Denoting the ongoing state of both believing and receiving eis/into Messiah
Strong's no.: G4100 (πιστεύω)
Meaning: To believe, have faith in, trust in; pass: to be entrusted with.
Click to expand...
Yes it does as I have argued multiple times
 
praise_yeshua said:
Amen. I refer this life as the "god experience"......

If you're free in this life to exercise your will, what would you do? In our minds, we can do most anything. Our "imaginations" rule our existence. In my view, God basically let Adam and Eve, have their way. This ended up creating like you said... "a God shaped hole" inside each of us. From the time we are born, we are endlessly seeking for things that never satisfy us. Over and over, we experience the finite results of our imaginations.

The "poor" in this world are "rich" in faith......

Thank God for the message of the Gospel where faithful people pass on their faith to others. "Faith to Faith" is where righteousness is revealed.
Click to expand...
"Faith to Faith" I like that, that's awesome! One thing I've noticed on Christian forums Is the atmosphere or vibe is much better when we are lifting each other up rather than tearing each other down. I'm going to try my best to stick to "Faith to Faith" and leave all the pessimism in the dust.

Being positive or negative is a choice—it is a way of thinking, speaking, and acting. Either one comes from a habit that has been formed in our lives through repetitious behavior.
 
Presby02 said:
And verse 13 which expands on verse 12?
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and it just shows God does the regenerating

while saying nothing about god effectually causin faith

Faith precedes regeneration

Regeneration by definition is the impartation of life



The following verses show faith precedes life

John 5:24 (KJV) Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. John 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

John 20:31 (KJV)
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

John 5:40 (KJV)
40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

Acts 11:18 (KJV)
18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

John 6:57 (KJV)
57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.

Regeneration makes one a child of God. Born of God -

One is made a child of God through faith

John 1:12 (KJV)
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Galatians 3:26 (KJV)
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

John 12:36 (KJV)
36 While ye have light, believe in the light, that ye may be the children of light. These things spake Jesus, and departed, and did hide himself from them.

Regeneration is a spiritual resurrection.



We are raised spiritually through faith

Colossians 2:12 (KJV)
12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

One is born again(regenerated) through faith in gospel

James 1:18 (KJV)
18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

1 Peter 1:23 (KJV)
23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

1 Corinthians 4:15 (KJV)
15 For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.


Regeneration is the mechanism of salvation

Titus 3:5 (KJV)
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Ephesians 2:5 (KJV)
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

it is through faith we are saved

EPH 2:8 (KJV)
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

.

Regeneration is preceded by remission of sin

Colossians 2:13 (KJV)
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

which requires both faith and repentance

Acts 10:43 (KJV)
43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

Luke 24:47 (KJV)
47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Acts 5:31 (KJV)
31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
 
Presby02 said:
Right. It does to being born again however.

"not by the will of man, but God"
Click to expand...
Nope as faith precedes regeneration

Regeneration by definition is the impartation of life



The following verses show faith precedes life

John 5:24 (KJV) Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. John 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

John 20:31 (KJV)
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

John 5:40 (KJV)
40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

Acts 11:18 (KJV)
18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

John 6:57 (KJV)
57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.

Regeneration makes one a child of God. Born of God -

One is made a child of God through faith

John 1:12 (KJV)
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Galatians 3:26 (KJV)
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

John 12:36 (KJV)
36 While ye have light, believe in the light, that ye may be the children of light. These things spake Jesus, and departed, and did hide himself from them.

Regeneration is a spiritual resurrection.



We are raised spiritually through faith

Colossians 2:12 (KJV)
12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

One is born again(regenerated) through faith in gospel

James 1:18 (KJV)
18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

1 Peter 1:23 (KJV)
23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

1 Corinthians 4:15 (KJV)
15 For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.


Regeneration is the mechanism of salvation

Titus 3:5 (KJV)
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Ephesians 2:5 (KJV)
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

it is through faith we are saved

EPH 2:8 (KJV)
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

.

Regeneration is preceded by remission of sin

Colossians 2:13 (KJV)
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

which requires both faith and repentance

Acts 10:43 (KJV)
43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

Luke 24:47 (KJV)
47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Acts 5:31 (KJV)
31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
 
Johann said:
All I have to do is looking at the Syntax and Morphology-wonder why not many are so inclined to study.
Excellent work from your end.
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if they did then they would leave their present beliefs if the could be objective and unbiased. :)
 
Kenny said:
"Faith to Faith" I like that, that's awesome! One thing I've noticed on Christian forums Is the atmosphere or vibe is much better when we are lifting each other up rather than tearing each other down. I'm going to try my best to stick to "Faith to Faith" and leave all the pessimism in the dust.

Being positive or negative is a choice—it is a way of thinking, speaking, and acting. Either one comes from a habit that has been formed in our lives through repetitious behavior.
Click to expand...

Paul mentions "faith to faith" in Roman's chapter 1.

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
Rom 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

I asked a trained Calvinist about Romans 1:17 decades ago and he rightfully couldn't explain these words relative to his own beliefs. It is impossible to believe Calvinism while ignoring the fact that revelation can not take place without the Gospel and the faithful's experience with the message of God to humanity. Contrary to Cain's comments, we are our brother's keeper.

I appreciate your enthusiasm. I do. Keep it up brother! God speed!
 

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