A better term for PSA—the Simple Atonement.

Diserner

Active Member
PSA is very technical language for a lot of non-theologians, and can feel intimidating and confusing, even when often they would agree with the fundamental idea behind it.

There is benefit in keeping things simple, and in an effort to make the idea more simple, I came up with the SMP (Simple) Atonement—the central and core idea that Jesus has...

Suffered all
My

Punishment

...as he was...

Standing in
My

Place

This is both, easy to remember, removes the technical language of "penal" and "substitutionary" which are confusing to the average person, and yet keeps the heart of the meaning and message in simple words.

Be a simp for Jesus!
 
Sounds like you are sugar coating what you really believe and disguising it to make it more palatable. That’s deceitful imho.

Say what you mean and mean what you say. Don’t mince words.
 
Our Lord Jesus Christ suffered death to ransom-purchase us for God. Death is our Father's judgment for sin, and our Father out of loving grace sent His own Son to die for our sins. In doing so, God shows that He is righteous for justifying everyone who believes in Jesus Christ, and only by believing in the death of Jesus Christ for our sins can one's consciousness of sin be cleansed so that he can approach God without guilt.

God loved us and sent His Son to save us from His wrath for sin. He did not show any retribution to His own Son. He showed loving grace towards us that while we were yet sinners Christ died for us. By God's grace, our sins were applied to His death, as our Lord said upon giving up His spirit, "It is finished".

What punishment does one deserve for sin? According to our God, it is death. What did the OT sacrifices do? Died for the sins of the people. What did our Lord do? Die for the sins of all everyone.

Did God kill His Son? No, according to our Lord, "Therefore the Father loves me, because I lay down my life, that I may take it again. No one takes it away from me, but I lay it down by myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. I received this commandment from my Father.”

And according to Peter in Acts 2, he preached to the Jews, "Him, being delivered by the determined purpose and foreknowledge of God, you have taken by lawless hands, have crucified, and put to death"...“Let all the house of Israel therefore know certainly that God has made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you crucified.”

Did God condemn His Son or just our sins in His sacrificial death? According to the Apostle Paul, "God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in the flesh".

God did not expend any wrath or retribution at His Son. This line of thinking is nowhere to be found in the bible.

God Bless
 
Our Lord Jesus Christ suffered death to ransom-purchase us for God. Death is our Father's judgment for sin, and our Father out of loving grace sent His own Son to die for our sins. In doing so, God shows that He is righteous for justifying everyone who believes in Jesus Christ, and only by believing in the death of Jesus Christ for our sins can one's consciousness of sin be cleansed so that he can approach God without guilt.

God loved us and sent His Son to save us from His wrath for sin. He did not show any retribution to His own Son. He showed loving grace towards us that while we were yet sinners Christ died for us. By God's grace, our sins were applied to His death, as our Lord said upon giving up His spirit, "It is finished".

What punishment does one deserve for sin? According to our God, it is death. What did the OT sacrifices do? Died for the sins of the people. What did our Lord do? Die for the sins of all everyone.

Did God kill His Son? No, according to our Lord, "Therefore the Father loves me, because I lay down my life, that I may take it again. No one takes it away from me, but I lay it down by myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. I received this commandment from my Father.”

And according to Peter in Acts 2, he preached to the Jews, "Him, being delivered by the determined purpose and foreknowledge of God, you have taken by lawless hands, have crucified, and put to death"...“Let all the house of Israel therefore know certainly that God has made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you crucified.”

Did God condemn His Son or just our sins in His sacrificial death? According to the Apostle Paul, "God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in the flesh".

God did not expend any wrath or retribution at His Son. This line of thinking is nowhere to be found in the bible.

God Bless
Amen brother!!!
 
Sounds like you are sugar coating what you really believe and disguising it to make it more palatable. That’s deceitful imho.

Say what you mean and mean what you say. Don’t mince words.

This is just a false accusation I must dismiss.

There is absolutely nothing sugar coated here, and no words whatsoever are being minced.

Nor did you make the slightest attempt to back your mean-spirited and false accusation with any logic or facts.

Every word I said, I stand by, there was no compromise whatsoever in anything I said.
 
What punishment does one deserve for sin? According to our God, it is death.

I am not an Annihilationist, and I believe this is an unbiblical and ungodly position to hold.

Sin deserves an eternal hell of suffering, and Scripture clearly and unequivocally describes that.
 
Suffered
In
My
Place
Lawfully

Exonerating

I am still working on ideas to flesh out the Simple Atonement Theory.

"Christ lived the life we should have lived—Christ died the death we should have died."
 
This is just a false accusation I must dismiss.

There is absolutely nothing sugar coated here, and no words whatsoever are being minced.

Nor did you make the slightest attempt to back your mean-spirited and false accusation with any logic or facts.

Every word I said, I stand by, there was no compromise whatsoever in anything I said.
For the readers to know what I said was true regarding the true meaning of PSA.

1-you left out Gods wrath poured out of His Son and we know wrath means vengeance, anger, retribution
2- you left out the Father turned His back on the Son to suffer alone and that there was a separation with the Father/Son- a violation of the Tri-Unity of God and their eternal oneness/fellowship.
3- you left out He suffered hell in our place.

shall I continue

hope this helps !!!
 
What punishment does one deserve for sin? According to our God, it is death.
I am not an Annihilationist, and I believe this is an unbiblical and ungodly position to hold.

Sin deserves an eternal hell of suffering, and Scripture clearly and unequivocally describes that.
And the LORD God commanded the man, "You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die." (Gen 2:16-17)

And he said, "Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree that I commanded you not to eat from?" (Gen 3:11)

To Adam he said, "Because you listened to your wife and ate fruit from the tree about which I commanded you, 'You must not eat from it,...By the sweat of your brow you will eat your food until you return to the ground, since from it you were taken; for dust you are and to dust you will return." (Gen 3:17-19)

Altogether, Adam lived a total of 930 years, and then he died. (Gen 5:5)

Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned—(Rom 5:12)

And the gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned. For the judgment which came from one offense resulted in condemnation, but the free gift which came from many offenses resulted in justification. (Rom 5:16)

For if by the one man's offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.) Therefore, as through one man's offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man's righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life. (Rom 5:17-18)

For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, (1Co 15:3)

Shall we go into the blood of Jesus Christ that it was His sinless life poured out unto death that atones for our sins?

I'm absolutely stunned that you think death is not God's condemnation and punishment for sin. I'm speechless really. It is plastered throughout the bible from front to back that we die as God's condemnation for our sin. We all know that is why we die.
  • Why do you die? Because you sinned.
  • Why does death and the grave no longer threaten you? Because your sins were applied to the death of our Lord Jesus Christ, and you have been justified-declared righteous by God because of your faith in Jesus Christ taking away your sin in His death, as it is said, "God laid upon Him the iniquities of us all."
  • Will you die again in the second death? No, because it is not for those who believe in Jesus Christ dying for their sins.
God Bless
 
And the LORD God commanded the man, "You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die." (Gen 2:16-17)

And he said, "Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree that I commanded you not to eat from?" (Gen 3:11)

To Adam he said, "Because you listened to your wife and ate fruit from the tree about which I commanded you, 'You must not eat from it,...By the sweat of your brow you will eat your food until you return to the ground, since from it you were taken; for dust you are and to dust you will return." (Gen 3:17-19)

Altogether, Adam lived a total of 930 years, and then he died. (Gen 5:5)

Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned—(Rom 5:12)

And the gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned. For the judgment which came from one offense resulted in condemnation, but the free gift which came from many offenses resulted in justification. (Rom 5:16)

For if by the one man's offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.) Therefore, as through one man's offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man's righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life. (Rom 5:17-18)

For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, (1Co 15:3)

Shall we go into the blood of Jesus Christ that it was His sinless life poured out unto death that atones for our sins?

I'm absolutely stunned that you think death is not God's condemnation and punishment for sin. I'm speechless really. It is plastered throughout the bible from front to back that we die as God's condemnation for our sin. We all know that is why we die.
  • Why do you die? Because you sinned.
  • Why does death and the grave no longer threaten you? Because your sins were applied to the death of our Lord Jesus Christ, and you have been justified-declared righteous by God because of your faith in Jesus Christ taking away your sin in His death, as it is said, "God laid upon Him the iniquities of us all."
  • Will you die again in the second death? No, because it is not for those who believe in Jesus Christ dying for their sins.
God Bless
Amen
 
I'm absolutely stunned that you think death is not God's condemnation and punishment for sin. I'm speechless really. It is plastered throughout the bible from front to back that we die as God's condemnation for our sin. We all know that is why we die.

I'm absolutely stunned you cannot think more clearly and have such poor comprehension of logic.

"Speechless really."

The Bible does not describe death as mere physical death.

The Bible does not describe mere physical death as the only or ultimate punishment of sin.

In hundreds of instances it describes spiritual death, which is not only still called death, but is in fact the true meaning of death.

Physical death is a small symbolic part of sin's punishment.

It is you who seem to make the unsubstantiated claim physical death is all there is.

If physical death was all there was, we do not need Jesus, upon our death we have already paid off our sin.

Neither is physical death is the cessation of existence according to Scripture, which is a physicalist view.
 
I'm absolutely stunned you cannot think more clearly and have such poor comprehension of logic.

"Speechless really."

The Bible does not describe death as mere physical death.

The Bible does not describe mere physical death as the only or ultimate punishment of sin.

In hundreds of instances it describes spiritual death, which is not only still called death, but is in fact the true meaning of death.

Physical death is a small symbolic part of sin's punishment.

It is you who seem to make the unsubstantiated claim physical death is all there is.

If physical death was all there was, we do not need Jesus, upon our death we have already paid off our sin.

Neither is physical death is the cessation of existence according to Scripture, which is a physicalist view.
where is "spiritual death " in the bible ?

please quote the verse..................

sounds like the same as finding " sin nature " or "original sin" or "total depravity" or " total inability " and the list goes on with false doctrines made up by fallen man.

next................

hope this helps !!!
 
Physical death is a small symbolic part of sin's punishment.
I'm absolutely stunned you cannot think more clearly and have such poor comprehension of logic.

"Speechless really."

physical death in scripture is a fact all men die physically. nothing "symbolic" about it as its literal. ask the billions who have died a physical death. :)

As scripture declares : its appointed once for all men to die then comes the judgement. Hebrews 9:27

start believing Gods word instead of the doctrines made up by fallen uninspired men.

I will let the Scholar educate you on the bibical principle of physical death which is literal, not symbolic.

And as it is appointed unto men once to die - Or, "since it is appointed unto men to die once only." The object of this is to illustrate the fact that Christ died but once for sin, and that is done by showing that the most important events pertaining to man occur but once. Thus, it is with "death." That does not, and cannot occur many times. It is the great law of our being that people die only once, and hence, the same thing was to be expected to occur in regard to him who made the atonement. It could not be supposed that this great law pertaining to man would be departed from in the case of him who died to make the atonement, and that he would repeatedly undergo the pains of death. The same thing was true in regard to the "judgment." Man is to he judged once, and but once. The decision is to be final, and is not to be repeated. In like manner there was a fitness that the great Redeemer should die "but once," and that his death should, without being repeated, determine the destiny of man. There was a remarkable "oneness" in the great events which most affected people; and neither death, the judgment, nor the atonement could be repeated. In regard to the declaration here that "it is appointed unto men once to die," we may observe:
(1) that death is the result of "appointment;" Genesis 3:19. It is not the effect of chance, or haphazard. It is not a "debt of nature." It is not the condition to which man was subject by the laws of his creation. It is not to be accounted for by the mere principles of physiology. God could as well have made the heart to play forever as for 50 years. Death is no more the regular result of physical laws than the guillotine and the gallows are. It is in all cases the result of "intelligent appointment," and for "an adequate cause."

(2) that cause, or the reason of that appointment, is sin; notes, Romans 6:23. This is the adequate cause; this explains the whole of it. Holy beings do not die. There is not the slightest proof that an angel in heaven has died, or that any perfectly holy being has ever died except the Lord Jesus. In every death, then, we have a demonstration that the race is guilty; in each case of mortality we have an affecting memento that we are individually transgressors.

(3) death occurs but "once" in this world. It cannot be repeated if we should desire to have it repeated. Whatever truths or facts then pertain to death; whatever lessons it is calculated to convey, pertain to it as an event which is not to occur again. That which is to occur but once in an eternity of existence acquires, from that very fact, if there were no other circumstances, an immense importance. What is to be done but, "once," we should wish to be done well. We should make all proper preparation for it; we should regard it with singular interest. If preparation is to be made for it, we should make all which we expect "ever" to make. A man who is to cross the ocean but "once;" to go away from his home never to return, should make the right kind of preparation. He cannot come back to take what he has forgotten; to arrange what he has neglected; to give counsel which he has failed to do; to ask forgiveness for offences for which he has neglected to seek pardon. And so of death. A man who dies, dies but once. He cannot come back again to make preparation if he has neglected it; to repair the evils which he has caused by a wicked life; or to implore pardon for sins for which he had failed to ask forgiveness. Whatever is "to be done" with reference to death, is to be done "once for all" before he dies.

(4) death occurs to all. "It is appointed unto men" - to the race. It is not an appointment for one, but for all. No one is appointed by name to die; and not an individual is designated as one who shall escape. No exception is made in favour of youth, beauty, or blood; no rank or station is exempt; no merit, no virtue, no patriotism, no talent, can purchase freedom from it. In every other sentence which goes out against people there may be "some" hope of reprieve. Here there is none. We cannot meet an individual who is not "under sentence of death." It is not only the poor wretch in the dungeon doomed to the gallows who is to die, it is the rich man in his palace; the frivolous trifler in the assembly room; the friend that we embrace and love; and she whom we meet in the crowded saloon of fashion with all the graces of accomplishment and adorning. Each one of these is just as much under sentence of death as the poor wretch in the cell, and the execution on any one of them may occur before his. It is too for substantially the same cause, and is as really deserved. It is for "sin" that all are doomed to death, and the "fact" that we must die should be a constant remembrancer of our guilt.

(5) as death is to occur to us but once, there is a cheering interest in the reflection that when it is passed it is passed "forever." The dying pang, the chill, the cold sweat, are not to be repeated. Death is not to approach us often - he is to be allowed to come to us but once. When we have once passed through the dark valley, we shall have the assurance that we shall never tread its gloomy way again. Once, then, let us be willing to die - since we can die "but" once; and let us rejoice in the assurance which the gospel furnishes, that they who die in the Lord leave the world to go where death in any form is unknown.

But after this the judgment - The apostle does not say "how long" after death this will be, nor is it possible for us to know; Acts 1:7; compare Matthew 24:36. We may suppose, however. that there will be two periods in which there will be an act of judgment passed on those who die.

(1) immediately after death when they pass into the eternal world, when their destiny will be made known to them. This seems to be necessarily implied in the supposition that they will continue to live, and to be happy or miserable after death. This act of judgment may not be formal or public, but it will be such as to show them what must be the issues of the final day, and as the result of that interview with God, they will be made happy or miserable until the final doom shall be pronounced.
 
What would you think of a human father whose younger son committed a violent crime, but who punished his innocent older son “in his place” and was thereby “satisfied” so that he could let the younger son go scot free? Then... concerning our own wrongdoing, did someone actually “take our place” and presumably our punishment?

George MacDonald put it this way:
They say first, God must punish the sinner, for justice requires it; then they say he does not punish the sinner, but punishes a perfectly righteous man instead, attributes his righteousness to the sinner, and so continues just. Was there ever such a confusion, such an inversion of right and wrong! Justice could not treat a righteous man as an unrighteous; neither, if justice required the punishment of sin, could justice let the1 sinner go unpunished. To lay the pain upon the righteous in the name of justice is simply monstrous. No wonder unbelief is rampant. Believe in Moloch if you will, but call him Moloch, not Justice. Be sure that the thing that God gives, the righteousness that is of God, is a real thing, and not a contemptible legalism. Pray God I have no righteousness imputed to me. Let me be regarded as the sinner I am; for nothing will serve my need but to be made a righteous man, one that will no more sin.


If that is the case, some may ask, “Was it necessary then for Jesus, the Son of God to die? Yes, certainly it was necessary, or He would not have undergone death. He prayed to the Father, “O my Father, if possible let this cup of suffering and death pass from me.(Matt 26:39). And the Father didn't release His Son from suffering and death. So obviously it was not only necessary for Jesus to suffer and die, but impossible for it to be otherwise—that is, if the purpose of God were to be realized.

So clearly it was necessary. But WHY was it necessary for the Son of God to die? Peter, Paul, and the writer to the Hebrews answer that question plainly:

I Peter 2:24 He himself endured our sins in his body on the tree, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness. By his wounds you have been healed.

II Corinthians 5:15 And he died for all, that those who live might live no longer for themselves but for him who for their sake died and was raised.

Romans 14:9 For to this end Christ died and lived again, that he might be Lord both of the dead and of the living.

Titus 2:14 who gave himself for us to redeem us from all iniquity and to purify for himself a people of his own who are zealous for good deeds.

Heb 9:26 ...he has appeared once for all at the end of the age for the abolition of sin by the sacrifice of himself.

Many cannot accept these reasons for the death of the Messiah. They make statements such as, “No one can be sinless! So it must be the case that God IMPUTES righteousness to me because of Christ's death.” No, that is not the case at all. It does not follow that through His death the Anointed One of God imparted to us “imputed righteousness.” Rather, through His death, He made possible ACTUAL righteousness. The attainment of this righteousness is a process. This process is known as “salvation from sin,” and continues throughout our lives. The process ends in the day of Jesus Christ. The apostle Paul put it this way:

I am sure of this, that He who began a good work in you will bring it to completion in the day of Jesus Christ. (Philippians 1:6)

So in the day of Jesus Christ, the process will be complete for all those in whom the process has begun, and who continue in it, coöperating with the enabling grace that God made available through the death of His Son.

For the grace of God has appeared for the salvation of all people, training us to renounce impiety and worldly passions, and to live sensible, righteous, and devout lives in the present age, expecting the blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of the great God and of our Savior Jesus Christ, who gave himself for us to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own who are zealous for good works. Declare these things; encourage and reprove with all authority. Let no one disregard you. (Titus 2:11-15)paidon

PSA is an abomination of a doctrine, a monstrous pagan like deity.

hope this helps !!!
 
I'm absolutely stunned you cannot think more clearly and have such poor comprehension of logic.

"Speechless really."

The Bible does not describe death as mere physical death.

The Bible does not describe mere physical death as the only or ultimate punishment of sin.

In hundreds of instances it describes spiritual death, which is not only still called death, but is in fact the true meaning of death.

Physical death is a small symbolic part of sin's punishment.

It is you who seem to make the unsubstantiated claim physical death is all there is.

If physical death was all there was, we do not need Jesus, upon our death we have already paid off our sin.

Neither is physical death is the cessation of existence according to Scripture, which is a physicalist view.
Pontificating without even applying scripture in context means nothing.

I provided many passages of the Bible in context proving that death is God's condemnation for man's sinning.

You seem to be advocating that Jesus Christ died spiritually and suffered in hell. Let's just put this to an end real quick. What did Jesus say to the thief on the cross who believed in him?

Answer: Luke 23:43 And he said to him, “Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in paradise.”

Is Paradise a place of rest and peace or it is a place of torment?

Like 22:19 And he took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and gave it to them, saying, “This is my body, which is given for you. Do this in remembrance of me.”

Heb 10:10 And by that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

1Pe 2:24 He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness. By his wounds you have been healed.

If the sinless living body of Jesus Christ given over unto death is not sufficient for your sins, then you need to use the Bible in context to point it out.

Otherwise all you are doing is meaninglessly trying to argue dogma over recorded truth.

And for the record, we have held dialogues for years on this forum board and another. I was surprised and speechless that you did not know that our physical death is the judgment of God for our sin. Seriously, it's from the front of the Bible to the back.

God Bless
 
Pontificating without even applying scripture in context means nothing.

I provided many passages of the Bible in context proving that death is God's condemnation for man's sinning.

You seem to be advocating that Jesus Christ died spiritually and suffered in hell. Let's just put this to an end real quick. What did Jesus say to the thief on the cross who believed in him?

Answer: Luke 23:43 And he said to him, “Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in paradise.”

Is Paradise a place of rest and peace or it is a place of torment?

Like 22:19 And he took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and gave it to them, saying, “This is my body, which is given for you. Do this in remembrance of me.”

Heb 10:10 And by that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

1Pe 2:24 He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness. By his wounds you have been healed.

If the sinless living body of Jesus Christ given over unto death is not sufficient for your sins, then you need to use the Bible in context to point it out.

Otherwise all you are doing is meaninglessly trying to argue dogma over recorded truth.

And for the record, we have held dialogues for years on this forum board and another. I was surprised and speechless that you did not know that our physical death is the judgment of God for our sin. Seriously, it's from the front of the Bible to the back.

God Bless
yes he believes the heresy of spiritual death and suffering hell for our Great God and Savior Jesus Christ. Talk about an oxymoron.
 
There is no scriptural evidence for such a thing. I was honestly surprised. 🤷🏻
100% correct it comes from the pit of hell, its the doctrine of demons. some of the most popular false teachers of our day espouse this heresy like Kenneth Copeland and those in the same movement.
 
PSA is very technical language for a lot of non-theologians, and can feel intimidating and confusing, even when often they would agree with the fundamental idea behind it.

There is benefit in keeping things simple, and in an effort to make the idea more simple, I came up with the SMP (Simple) Atonement—the central and core idea that Jesus has...

Suffered all
My

Punishment

...as he was...

Standing in
My

Place

This is both, easy to remember, removes the technical language of "penal" and "substitutionary" which are confusing to the average person, and yet keeps the heart of the meaning and message in simple words.

Be a simp for Jesus!

The problem is there will still be disagreements over hard and soft SMP atonement.
 
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