Your Views on The Trinity

[Peterlag]

If it was just a "common phrase" why did the Pharisees react so viciously that they wanted to stone Him? It was because Jesus was claiming to be God.

Jesus had not been claiming to be God in the flesh and this is why the Jews never asked him at his trial if he was God in the flesh, but instead they asked him about what he had been claiming to be, which was the Messiah. Mark 14:61-62 records the High Priest asking “Are you the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?" And Jesus said "I am.” The High Priest tore his garments and said he deserved to be put to death when Jesus stated he was the Messiah. So we see that the Jews correctly assessed that Jesus had been claiming to be the Christ, and that Jesus indeed said he was the Christ, and also that the Jews thought his claim was worthy of the death penalty.

 

[Peterlag]

Anyone who would refer anything to Jimmy's bible knows beans about the subject.

But if you want to get technical.... there are other translations that use Godhead.... (I prefer umbrella)...Here are 16

The term "Godhead" appears in the Tyndale New Testament (1525), the Geneva Bible (1560/1599), and the King James Version (1611). These translations use "Godhead" to translate different Greek words related to the essence of God.


King James Bible
For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

New King James Version
For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily;

Amplified Bible
For in Him all the fullness of Deity (the Godhead) dwells in bodily form [completely expressing the divine essence of God].

American Standard Version
for in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily,

English Revised Version
for in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily,

Webster's Bible Translation
For in him dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily.

Literal Translations
Literal Standard Version
because in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily,

Young's Literal Translation
because in him doth tabernacle all the fulness of the Godhead bodily,

Catholic Translations
Douay-Rheims Bible
For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead corporeally;

Translations from Aramaic
Lamsa Bible
For in him is embodied all the fulness of the Godhead.

NT Translations
Anderson New Testament
for in him dwells all the fullness of the Godhood bodily.

Godbey New Testament
because in him dwells all the fulness of the Godhead bodily,

Haweis New Testament
for in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily;

Worrell New Testament
because in Him dwells all the fulness of the Godhead bodily;

Here's 32 that do not mention "Godhead"

Um, do you think this might be a problem?

New International Version
For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

New Living Translation
For ever since the world was created, people have seen the earth and sky. Through everything God made, they can clearly see his invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature. So they have no excuse for not knowing God.

English Standard Version
For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.

Berean Standard Bible
For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood from His workmanship, so that men are without excuse.

Berean Literal Bible
For from the creation of the world His invisible qualities, both His eternal power and divinity, are clearly seen, being understood by the things made, for them to be without excuse.

New American Standard Bible
For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, that is, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, being understood by what has been made, so that they are without excuse.

NASB 1995
For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.

NASB 1977
For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.

Legacy Standard Bible
For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, both His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.

Amplified Bible
For ever since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through His workmanship [all His creation, the wonderful things that He has made], so that they [who fail to believe and trust in Him] are without excuse and without defense.

Christian Standard Bible
For his invisible attributes, that is, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen since the creation of the world, being understood through what he has made. As a result, people are without excuse.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
For His invisible attributes, that is, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen since the creation of the world, being understood through what He has made. As a result, people are without excuse.

Contemporary English Version
God's eternal power and character cannot be seen. But from the beginning of creation, God has shown what these are like by all he has made. That's why those people don't have any excuse.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
From the creation of the world, God's invisible qualities, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly observed in what he made. As a result, people have no excuse.

Good News Translation
Ever since God created the world, his invisible qualities, both his eternal power and his divine nature, have been clearly seen; they are perceived in the things that God has made. So those people have no excuse at all!

International Standard Version
For since the creation of the world God's invisible attributes—his eternal power and divine nature—have been understood and observed by what he made, so that people are without excuse.

NET Bible
For since the creation of the world his invisible attributes--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, because they are understood through what has been made. So people are without excuse.

New Heart English Bible
For since the creation of the world his invisible attributes, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made. So they are without excuse.

Weymouth New Testament
For, from the very creation of the world, His invisible perfections--namely His eternal power and divine nature--have been rendered intelligible and clearly visible by His works, so that these men are without excuse.

Majority Standard Bible
For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood from His workmanship, so that men are without excuse.

World English Bible
For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity, that they may be without excuse.

Berean Literal Bible
For from the creation of the world His invisible qualities, both His eternal power and divinity, are clearly seen, being understood by the things made, for them to be without excuse.

Smith's Literal Translation
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world, being understood by things made, are inspected, truly both his eternal power and divinity; so that they are inexcusable:

Douay-Rheims Bible
For the invisible things of him, from the creation of the world, are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made; his eternal power also, and divinity: so that they are inexcusable.

Catholic Public Domain Version
For unseen things about him have been made conspicuous, since the creation of the world, being understood by the things that were made; likewise his everlasting virtue and divinity, so much so that they have no excuse.

New American Bible
Ever since the creation of the world, his invisible attributes of eternal power and divinity have been able to be understood and perceived in what he has made. As a result, they have no excuse;

New Revised Standard Version
Ever since the creation of the world his eternal power and divine nature, invisible though they are, have been understood and seen through the things he has made. So they are without excuse;

Anderson New Testament
(for, since the creation of the world, his attributes, which are invisible, are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, both his eternal power and divinity,) that they may be without excuse;

Godbey New Testament
for the invisible things of Him from the creation of the world are seen, being known by the things which are made, even His eternal power and divinity; so that they are without excuse:

Mace New Testament
for ever since the creation of the world, his eternal power and divinity, things in themselves invisible, are clearly seen, being perceived by the things that are made; so that they are without excuse:

Weymouth New Testament
For, from the very creation of the world, His invisible perfections--namely His eternal power and divine nature--have been rendered intelligible and clearly visible by His works, so that these men are without excuse.

Worrell New Testament
For His invisible things, since the creation of the world, are clearly seen, being perceived by the things that are made, even His everlasting power and divinity; that they may be without excuse:

 

[Peterlag]

That is showing ignorance of the whole situation of the disciples. None of them really followed critical and unique details of who Jesus is. It was quite unique that Peter identified him as the Messiah early on. We then see that Thomas as the doubter, as verified earlier about his sarcastic remarks (such as "let us go with him that we too might die") became aware not only of Jesus being resurrected but also of Jesus as God. Anything less than such recognition demonstrates that person to be a doubter after reading such evidence as that about Thomas.

Oh wow... The Apostles did not know Jesus was God. Only Peter knew it early on by referring to him as the son of God.

 

[Peterlag]

Well doubting Peter....

"Thomas doubted Jesus when he refused to believe that Jesus had risen from the dead until he could see and touch Jesus's wounds. This event is described in the Gospel of John, where he is often referred to as "Doubting Thomas" for his skepticism."

Doubting @Peterlag ... this is suspiciously similar to someone I know who refuses to believe if they cant see it.


My scriptures say in John 20:24-29

24 But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came.

25 So the other disciples were saying to him, “We have seen the Lord!” But he said to them, “Unless I see in His hands the imprint of the nails, and put my finger into the place of the nails, and put my hand into His side, I will not believe.”

26 After eight days His disciples were again inside, and Thomas with them. Jesus came, the doors having been shut, and stood in their midst and said, “Peace be with you.”

27 Then He said to Thomas, “Reach here with your finger, and see My hands; and reach here your hand and put it into My side; and do not be unbelieving, but believing.”

28 Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”

29 Jesus said to him, “Because you have seen Me, have you believed? Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed.”

IOW... Thomas would not believe the others until Jesus actually had to show him his scars from the crucifixion, and only THEN would Thomas believe He had been risen from the dead.

Even Jesus chided Thomas for unbelief when He said to him .....
“Because you have seen Me, have you believed? Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed.”

This is quite similar to someone you know well.... yourself

Now... How about you posting these same scriptures from your bible for comparison.

"Thomas doubted Jesus when he refused to believe that Jesus had risen from the dead until he could see and touch Jesus's wounds.

So, you're saying Thomas did not think God could raise Himself from the dead?

 

[mikesw]

Oh wow... The Apostles did not know Jesus was God. Only Peter knew it early on by referring to him as the son of God.

I can see how you remain confused by the gospels. So Peter could say the right words in Matthew 16:13-20 while failing to understand all this meant. We see this also in: John 12:16 (NASB95)
16These things His disciples did not understand at the first; but when Jesus was glorified, then they remembered that these things were written of Him, and that they had done these things to Him.

Hope this helps!!

 

[Peterlag]

I can see how you remain confused by the gospels. So Peter could say the right words in Matthew 16:13-20 while failing to understand all this meant. We see this also in: John 12:16 (NASB95)
16These things His disciples did not understand at the first; but when Jesus was glorified, then they remembered that these things were written of Him, and that they had done these things to Him.

Hope this helps!!

The Apostles were with him for years but did not know he was God. But somehow you do. Got it.

 

[mikesw]

The Apostles were with him for years but did not know he was God. But somehow you do. Got it.

I have read the gospels and I have the mind of Christ. These point to Christ as God but often through the narrated events where even the Pharisees accidentally testified to the meaning of the encounters. Of these testimony of the gospels and mind of Christ, those who fail in either or both of those can miss it. I am here to help you beyond your shortcomings.

 

[FreeInChrist]

Here's 32 that do not mention "Godhead"

Um, do you think this might be a problem?

New International Version
For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

New Living Translation
For ever since the world was created, people have seen the earth and sky. Through everything God made, they can clearly see his invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature. So they have no excuse for not knowing God.

English Standard Version
For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.

Berean Standard Bible
For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood from His workmanship, so that men are without excuse.

Berean Literal Bible
For from the creation of the world His invisible qualities, both His eternal power and divinity, are clearly seen, being understood by the things made, for them to be without excuse.

New American Standard Bible
For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, that is, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, being understood by what has been made, so that they are without excuse.

NASB 1995
For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.

NASB 1977
For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.

Legacy Standard Bible
For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, both His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.

Amplified Bible
For ever since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through His workmanship [all His creation, the wonderful things that He has made], so that they [who fail to believe and trust in Him] are without excuse and without defense.

Christian Standard Bible
For his invisible attributes, that is, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen since the creation of the world, being understood through what he has made. As a result, people are without excuse.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
For His invisible attributes, that is, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen since the creation of the world, being understood through what He has made. As a result, people are without excuse.

Contemporary English Version
God's eternal power and character cannot be seen. But from the beginning of creation, God has shown what these are like by all he has made. That's why those people don't have any excuse.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
From the creation of the world, God's invisible qualities, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly observed in what he made. As a result, people have no excuse.

Good News Translation
Ever since God created the world, his invisible qualities, both his eternal power and his divine nature, have been clearly seen; they are perceived in the things that God has made. So those people have no excuse at all!

International Standard Version
For since the creation of the world God's invisible attributes—his eternal power and divine nature—have been understood and observed by what he made, so that people are without excuse.

NET Bible
For since the creation of the world his invisible attributes--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, because they are understood through what has been made. So people are without excuse.

New Heart English Bible
For since the creation of the world his invisible attributes, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made. So they are without excuse.

Weymouth New Testament
For, from the very creation of the world, His invisible perfections--namely His eternal power and divine nature--have been rendered intelligible and clearly visible by His works, so that these men are without excuse.

Majority Standard Bible
For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood from His workmanship, so that men are without excuse.

World English Bible
For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity, that they may be without excuse.

Berean Literal Bible
For from the creation of the world His invisible qualities, both His eternal power and divinity, are clearly seen, being understood by the things made, for them to be without excuse.

Smith's Literal Translation
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world, being understood by things made, are inspected, truly both his eternal power and divinity; so that they are inexcusable:

Douay-Rheims Bible
For the invisible things of him, from the creation of the world, are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made; his eternal power also, and divinity: so that they are inexcusable.

Catholic Public Domain Version
For unseen things about him have been made conspicuous, since the creation of the world, being understood by the things that were made; likewise his everlasting virtue and divinity, so much so that they have no excuse.

New American Bible
Ever since the creation of the world, his invisible attributes of eternal power and divinity have been able to be understood and perceived in what he has made. As a result, they have no excuse;

New Revised Standard Version
Ever since the creation of the world his eternal power and divine nature, invisible though they are, have been understood and seen through the things he has made. So they are without excuse;

Anderson New Testament
(for, since the creation of the world, his attributes, which are invisible, are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, both his eternal power and divinity,) that they may be without excuse;

Godbey New Testament
for the invisible things of Him from the creation of the world are seen, being known by the things which are made, even His eternal power and divinity; so that they are without excuse:

Mace New Testament
for ever since the creation of the world, his eternal power and divinity, things in themselves invisible, are clearly seen, being perceived by the things that are made; so that they are without excuse:

Weymouth New Testament
For, from the very creation of the world, His invisible perfections--namely His eternal power and divine nature--have been rendered intelligible and clearly visible by His works, so that these men are without excuse.

Worrell New Testament
For His invisible things, since the creation of the world, are clearly seen, being perceived by the things that are made, even His everlasting power and divinity; that they may be without excuse:

No

 

[FreeInChrist]

"Thomas doubted Jesus when he refused to believe that Jesus had risen from the dead until he could see and touch Jesus's wounds.

So, you're saying Thomas did not think God could raise Himself from the dead?

Just like you and the Trinity, He needed proof.

Its not that he did not think God could, it is that he did not believe it had happened....

All he had was the word of the others. The following explains it better then I

Who Was Doubting Thomas? (The Untold Story of Thomas the Apostle)

Delve into the enigmatic figure of Thomas the Apostle, exploring his portrayal in biblical texts and apocryphal writings. Unravel the origins of his skepticism and his enduring legacy in Christian tradition.

www.bartehrman.com

"In the most significant scene involving Thomas, the story of Doubting Thomas, John 20 tells us that the resurrected Jesus appears to all the disciples. Thomas, however, is regrettably absent on this occasion. This is how John 20:24-28 narrates the next scene when Jesus appears to Thomas:"

But Thomas (who was called the Twin), one of the twelve, was not with them when Jesus came. So the other disciples told him, “We have seen the Lord.” But he said to them, “Unless I see the mark of the nails in his hands and put my finger in the mark of the nails and my hand in his side, I will not believe.”

A week later his disciples were again in the house, and Thomas was with them. Although the doors were shut, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you.” Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here and see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it in my side. Do not doubt but believe.” Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!”

This scene is significant for several reasons. First, it defines Thomas as one who is initially skeptical about the resurrection, perhaps because he was not able to die with Jesus as he had desired. However, he is also of sufficiently high status that Jesus allows him to touch his resurrected body.

Additionally, this scene helps to clarify the Gospel of John’s view of Jesus’ resurrection: it is physical. Jesus isn’t a spirit or a ghost, but instead a revivified body, maintaining the marks of his crucifixion and able to be touched by the living. Finally, Thomas, having personally experienced the risen Jesus, seems to identify Jesus as God, the first of Jesus’ followers in the Gospels to do so explicitly.

 

[Capbook]

The Bible says "I am the First and the Last... I was dead..." and me saying the First and Last died isn't an interpretation. I am just repeating to you what the Bible says. I think we are getting somewhere, though. Some often interpret death to not mean literal death, but only separation from God. So do you believe the First and the Last was separated from God or that the First and the Last was literally dead in the plainest meaning of the word? I can see either option being a problem for trinitarianism so how do you interpret it?

Yes, any titles Jesus has whether Alpha or Omega, First and Last, beginning and end, etc and him dying don't refer to God dying. We must keep always have a constant in which God is always alive in every sense. God is the God of the living after all.

It seems that personal incredulity exist for 1Peter 3:18. There will be no problem when reading the text without inserting preconceived belief.
Again your interpretation confirmed that the Almighty God also died.

Rev 1:8 "I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty."
1Pe 3:18 For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit;

 

[Peterlag]

Colossians 1:16 is not a teaching on the trinity...​

or that we should believe or confess that Jesus is God. Many point to Colosians 1:16 and claim it proves that Jesus is the creator of the universe. Isaiah 44:24 says God created "all alone" and "by myself." So who's telling the truth? Acts 17:24-31 says God made the world and everything in it. He will judge the world by a MAN whom He has appointed and raised from the dead.

So what does Colossians 1:16 mean? The phrase "all things were created in" and "through" and "for" Jesus is not about physical creation. It's about God's plan of redemption, which centered on the Messiah. Jesus is the foundation of God's plan, and not the architect of the cosmos. Colosians 1 isn't about Genesis 1. It's about the New Creation.

It tells you right in the verse what the all things are. They are thrones, dominions, principalities, and powers. Not planets, oceans and stars. The verse is telling us Jesus will need these things to govern in his new up-coming kingdom.

The trinitarian has only 3 to pick from...

1.) Use a verse from a bad translation.
2.) Use a verse that is taken out of context.
3.) Not understand how the words were used in the culture they were written in.

And basically that's all trinitarians have. And I mean 100 percent of what they have. They have nothing else.

 

[Runningman]

It seems that personal incredulity exist for 1Peter 3:18. There will be no problem when reading the text without inserting preconceived belief.
Again your interpretation confirmed that the Almighty God also died.

Rev 1:8 "I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty."
1Pe 3:18 For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit;

Revelation 1:8 isn't about Jesus, in accordance with Jesus is never described as "who is and who was and who is to come." Read Revelation 1:4-8 and you'll see that. Again, God didn't die, but the First and Last did die. Let that constant guide your reasoning.

 

[mikesw]

Revelation 1:8 isn't about Jesus, in accordance with Jesus is never described as "who is and who was and who is to come." Read Revelation 1:4-8 and you'll see that. Again, God didn't die, but the First and Last did die. Let that constant guide your reasoning.

Your confusion seems to surround the metaphysical situation behind Jesus's death on the cross. That should not be used as an excuse to decide that scripture is wrong in the Son of God dying on the cross without terminating God's existence. You are simply relying on man's limited conceptions to deny what God has done.

 

[Capbook]

You're quoting a bad verse and asking me to confirm it. Again, for the third time... there are 22 other translations that refer to the glory of God and not the glorious one appearing.

New International Version
while we wait for the blessed hope—the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ,

Yes, you can provide verses speaking of God's glory but cannot cite a single verse of His appearing.
Verse below proves that Titus 2:13 "glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour," exclusively refer to Jesus Christ.

1Ti 6:14 that you keep the commandment without stain or reproach until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ,

 

[Capbook]

Revelation 1:8 isn't about Jesus, in accordance with Jesus is never described as "who is and who was and who is to come." Read Revelation 1:4-8 and you'll see that. Again, God didn't die, but the First and Last did die. Let that constant guide your reasoning.

Yes, if you interpret it to refer to the Almighty God, you also made the Father died, the same Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, and the First and Last in Rev 22:13. Also in Isaiah 41:4.

Runningman, your beliefs and exegesis are contradicting. Let God's words guides your reasoning. It involves eternal life.(John 17:3)

Joh 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

 

[Peterlag]

Yes, you can provide verses speaking of God's glory but cannot cite a single verse of His appearing.
Verse below proves that Titus 2:13 "glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour," exclusively refer to Jesus Christ.

1Ti 6:14 that you keep the commandment without stain or reproach until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ,

Titus 2:13 does not say the appearing of the glory of God is Jesus Christ. It says the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ (NIV)

 

[mikesw]

Yes, you can provide verses speaking of God's glory but cannot cite a single verse of His appearing.
Verse below proves that Titus 2:13 "glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour," exclusively refer to Jesus Christ.

1Ti 6:14 that you keep the commandment without stain or reproach until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ,

Good stuff you shared. When discussing Titus 2:13 before, the only points made were about the God and Savior describing Jesus. This is true. The additional insight is that verse 14 refers to the singular action of Jesus who also purifies a people for himself. Only God (inclusive of Jesus) can have a people as his possession.
Titus 2:14 (ESV)
14who gave himself for us to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people for his own possession who are zealous for good works.

The only way around this would be that God gave himself for us and that Jesus also gave himself for us while calling them both in the singular "him."

 

[Capbook]

Titus 2:13 does not say the appearing of the glory of God is Jesus Christ. It says the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ (NIV)

Just other verse rendetion, by relying heavily to paraphrase translations, (as I prefer word for word) you are just following the flow of thoughts of the translators not from the original Bible words. See, how it was written in Greek, from Byzantine Text Type manuscripts.
The "glorious appearing" or just the word "appearing" of the Father can you quote just a single verse outside Titus 2:13?
I have proven you one, and here's another one for Jesus, "glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ." (1Peter 1:7) See below.
That confirmed that the God in Titus 2:13 refers to Jesus.

Tit 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

Tit 2:13 Looking forG4327 that blessedG3107 hope,G1680 andG2532 theG3588 gloriousG1391 appearingG2015 of theG3588 greatG3173 GodG2316 andG2532 ourG2257 SaviourG4990 JesusG2424 Christ;G5547

Tit 2:13 προσδεχομενοιG4327 V-PNP-NPM τηνG3588 T-ASF μακαριανG3107 A-ASF ελπιδαG1680 N-ASF καιG2532 CONJ επιφανειανG2015 N-ASF τηςG3588 T-GSF δοξηςG1391 N-GSF τουG3588 T-GSM μεγαλουG3173 A-GSM θεουG2316 N-GSM καιG2532 CONJ σωτηροςG4990 N-GSM ημωνG1473 P-1GP ιησουG2424 N-GSM χριστουG5547 N-GSM

1Pe 1:7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

 

[Runningman]

Your confusion seems to surround the metaphysical situation behind Jesus's death on the cross. That should not be used as an excuse to decide that scripture is wrong in the Son of God dying on the cross without terminating God's existence. You are simply relying on man's limited conceptions to deny what God has done.

I’m going to tell you the same thing I have told @Capbook which is that the First and Last said he was dead. That isn’t an interpretation. No matter how you spin it the fist and last died. If you’ve been following this conversation you’ll see how his argument for thr deity of Jesus got debunked. First and Last refers to category, its bit an exclusive divine title. If the trinity was a ceramic idol, it’s in pieces right now.

 

[mikesw]

I’m going to tell you the same thing I have told @Capbook which is that the First and Last said he was dead. That isn’t an interpretation. No matter how you spin it the fist and last died. If you’ve been following this conversation you’ll see how his argument for thr deity of Jesus got debunked. First and Last refers to category, its bit an exclusive divine title. If the trinity was a ceramic idol, it’s in pieces right now.

I sincerely doubt that you have debunked anything except your own view.