Your Views on The Trinity

[praise_yeshua]

I have noticed intelligent and informed input on the subject of debating the Trinity comes from the unitarian camp. It seems low intelligence, ignorance, and an incapacity for critical thought are prerequisites for membership in trinitarian circles.

Here's an example...
Concerning 1 John 5:7-8 where it has the words "In heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost, and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth" are words that are not found in any Greek Manuscript before the 15th or 16th century and in no ancient Version. - E. W. Bullinger., A Critical Lexicon and Concordance to the English and Greek New Testament: (London: Samuel Bagster & Sons, 1975), p. 11 of Appendix A.

Trinitarians...
You are changing the Scriptures. Or 2 Peter 2:21 says the Bible is not to be privately interpreted. Or why are you denying the words of the Apostles?

I'm not taking this "bait" you have dangling to change the subject.

I don't care what Bullinger had to say. I'm not Bullinger. So stop using others to avoid the revelations of your own ignorance. It is rather ignorant to quote others as if you're that person yourself.

So lets deal with you own intelligence.

What man talks about loving someone while repeatedly insisting that person isn't worth what we claim He is worth?

 

[praise_yeshua]

People have been poring over the Bible for centuries trying to find a way to write trinitarian ideas into Scripture. You guys have been able to poison the well, but you can't change the general context of the Bible having only the Father as YHWH.

Not me. Haven't had an issue at anytime. Your ignorance is showing.

Yes, worshipping the Son as God is idolatry. No where in the Bible is the Son ever worshipped as God and when bowed to there is no clear difference between that and the way others have bowed to other humans. Jesus is described as being a prince, not the king of earth or heaven. It would be nice if the Bible put up some flashing lights and a neon sign that said "Hey! don't skim over this part, pay attention because it's important!" However, it does not. That's why I am showing you now..

That is a demonstrable lie. We all know better. We have already discussed this.

I want to discuss how you disconnect the Son from the Father in claiming I have an idol. It is not idolatrous to worship someone that is Perfect.

The Son came forth perfectly from the Father. In all ways He is Perfect like the Father.

YOU'RE not. The very idea of perfection requires such a view. Something that is a perfect image of the Father is just like the Father.

Deal with this simple equation. You're avoiding it.

The idea that idolatry involves worshipping someone that is Perfect is really really crazy. Delusional. Someone that is perfect is worthy of worship.

Now, molding gold and silver into something that can't speak or doesn't have a loving relationship with someone into a "God" is idolatry.

Claiming Christ is an idol for me is ridiculous. Christ is Perfect.

Is Christ perfect to you?

God isn't a prince is He?

Revelation 1
5And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

Acts 5
31God exalted Him to His right hand as Prince and Savior, in order to grant repentance and forgiveness of sins to Israel.

Easy. Your perspective it seriously flawed.

The kingdoms of the world are not the kingdoms of God. Christ came into the world to win those kingdoms to God. As such, is a "Prince" among men.

Doesn't change the fact that Christ is both a Prince of men and God Incarnate.

The fact, you resist this shows how evil you are.

 

[Peterlag]

Synonyms. Do you know what they are?

Trinitarianism is a natural outgrowth from the Eternal doctrines of the apostles.

I can prove it. Have been for many years to better men than yourself. Why are you pretending to be a good and wise man? It is rather obvious you're not.

Anyone that would say what you say about Jesus Christ can't be a good man.

There's no Trinity... The verses that are used to try to teach it are all taken out of context, or not understood how the words were used in the culture they were written in, or from a bad translation. It's an evil Catholic concept that was sold to the world mostly by the power of the sword.

The folks back then weren't allowed to have Bibles to read for themselves. The rejection of the Trinity often brought severe punishment including the loss of your job, intimidation, harassment, confiscation of property, jail or imprisonment, torture, and even burning at the stake.

 

[praise_yeshua]

I have noticed intelligent and informed input on the subject of debating the Trinity comes from the unitarian camp. It seems low intelligence, ignorance, and an incapacity for critical thought are prerequisites for membership in trinitarian circles.

Here's an example...
Concerning 1 John 5:7-8 where it has the words "In heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost, and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth" are words that are not found in any Greek Manuscript before the 15th or 16th century and in no ancient Version. - E. W. Bullinger., A Critical Lexicon and Concordance to the English and Greek New Testament: (London: Samuel Bagster & Sons, 1975), p. 11 of Appendix A.

Trinitarians...
You are changing the Scriptures. Or 2 Peter 2:21 says the Bible is not to be privately interpreted. Or why are you denying the words of the Apostles?

Do you really think breaking out the "pom poms" to promote your friends means anything.

We all know you're a puppet to them. You can't change because of them. You value them above Jesus Christ. That is why you're "cheering them" and don't care about disparaging Jesus Christ.

 

[praise_yeshua]

There's no Trinity... The verses that are used to try to teach it are all taken out of context, or not understood how the words were used in the culture they were written in, or from a bad translation. It's an evil Catholic concept that was sold to the world mostly by the power of the sword.

The folks back then weren't allowed to have Bibles to read for themselves. The rejection of the Trinity often brought severe punishment including the loss of your job, intimidation, harassment, confiscation of property, jail or imprisonment, torture, and even burning at the stake.

You have your bible now and are no better off than those who hide them from those before you.

The Trinity has no more to do with Catholicism than blood has to do with idolatry.

Do you get it? It is like criticizing Judaism because pagans used blood themselves in sacrifice. This is not very smart at all of you. It is nothing more than "guilt by association" evil. edit. You keep proving it.

So tell me more about how you're just like Jesus. This really does help your position. You should keep doing it.

 

[Runningman]

Not me. Haven't had an issue at anytime. Your ignorance is showing.



That is a demonstrable lie. We all know better. We have already discussed this.

I want to discuss how you disconnect the Son from the Father in claiming I have an idol. It is not idolatrous to worship someone that is Perfect.

The Son came forth perfectly from the Father. In all ways He is Perfect like the Father.

YOU'RE not. The very idea of perfection requires such a view. Something that is a perfect image of the Father is just like the Father.

Deal with this simple equation. You're avoiding it.

The idea that idolatry involves worshipping someone that is Perfect is really really crazy. Delusional. Someone that is perfect is worthy of worship.

Now, molding gold and silver into something that can't speak or doesn't have a loving relationship with someone into a "God" is idolatry.

Claiming Christ is an idol for me is ridiculous. Christ is Perfect.

Is Christ perfect to you?



Easy. Your perspective it seriously flawed.

The kingdoms of the world are not the kingdoms of God. Christ came into the world to win those kingdoms to God. As such, is a "Prince" among men.

Doesn't change the fact that Christ is both a Prince of men and God Incarnate.

The fact, you resist this shows how evil you are.

God is the King, Jesus is a prince. You can't change it.

 

[praise_yeshua]

God is the King, Jesus is a prince. You can't change it.

Didn't try to. I explained it to you. You want to "boil this down" to childish talk where you never do anything but what you did above. Such is the talk of a child. Men, especially wise men, don't talk like this. They don't relate complicated relationships with "blurbs" that don't fit the complexity of the subject.

You see a "king and prince" separated. That is what you preach. That is what your evil mind requires. You want to see what you want yourself.

You want "one to rule them all". That is what Satan wants too. All things subservient to Satan.

This life is a challenge of perspective. Your beliefs reflect who you are. Your character is showing in this.

Does God look on the heart? You're looking on the outward appearance. That is exactly what those Pharisees did when they rejected Jesus Christ. When John said "We beheld His Glory".......

John didn't see a prince. You have a very real problem with what you believe is glorious.

 

[civic]

God is the King, Jesus is a prince. You can't change it.

Christ is the King of kings, the LORD of lords

Next fallacy

 

[Runningman]

Christ is the King of kings, the LORD of lords

Next fallacy

Never called that one time in the Bible.

 

[civic]

Never called that one time in the Bible.

You are right not once but twice

Revelation 17:14;19:16
14These will war against the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them, for he is Lord of lords and King of kings; and those who are with him are called, chosen, and faithful.”

 

[mikesw]

You are right not once but twice

Revelation 17:14;19:16
14These will war against the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them, for he is Lord of lords and King of kings; and those who are with him are called, chosen, and faithful.”

Wait until you hear his answer. Don't be eating or drinking when you hear it.

 

[civic]

Wait until you hear his answer. Don't be eating or drinking when you hear it.

I know better not eat my spaghetti sauce right now

 

[Runningman]

You are right not once but twice

Revelation 17:14;19:16
14These will war against the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them, for he is Lord of lords and King of kings; and those who are with him are called, chosen, and faithful.”

I see you couldn't deliver. You said "King of kings, the LORD of lords" but the Bible uses a different word order "Lord of lords and King of kings." This demonstrates Jesus is not the "King of kings, the LORD of lords" as you had initially claimed. Thanks for proving my point.

 

[Runningman]

Synonyms. Do you know what they are?

Trinitarianism is a natural outgrowth from the Eternal doctrines of the apostles.

I can prove it. Have been for many years to better men than yourself. Why are you pretending to be a good and wise man? It is rather obvious you're not.

Anyone that would say what you say about Jesus Christ can't be a good man.

Looks like you're getting wrecked. You appealed to what Paul didn't say and your reaction is indicative of your state of mind and desperation. You can't beat Peter is a theological debate, so you lash it.

 

[Runningman]

I'm not taking this "bait" you have dangling to change the subject.

I don't care what Bullinger had to say. I'm not Bullinger. So stop using others to avoid the revelations of your own ignorance. It is rather ignorant to quote others as if you're that person yourself.

So lets deal with you own intelligence.

What man talks about loving someone while repeatedly insisting that person isn't worth what we claim He is worth?

Let's stick to the Scripture. Do you believe you have a license to privately interpret the Bible?

 

[Capbook]

Well, there's no way I can be wrong because Jesus is not God. So it would not make any sense to say only begotten God.

Peterlag, I quote again your Post#3006 which you states that "there's no way that you can be wrong because Jesus is not God."
It's from your own statement that needs you to prove your point, why speak of something you consider as true but you cannot support? I've read your whining at other responses.

Well, I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed but I try support what I state, Jesus as the "only begotten God" and "in the nature or state of being God, deity, divine nature, divine being," and quote my source.
Why can't do the same?

 

[Peterlag]

You have your bible now and are no better off than those who hide them from those before you.

The Trinity has no more to do with Catholicism than blood has to do with idolatry.

Do you get it? It is like criticizing Judaism because pagans used blood themselves in sacrifice. This is not very smart at all of you. It is nothing more than "guilt by association" evil. You're evil. You keep proving it.

So tell me more about how you're just like Jesus. This really does help your position. You should keep doing it.

You're Edit You keep proving it.

How come you can personally refer to me as edit, but I can't say the same to you?

cc: @civic
@Administrator

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

I like what you said above. The only thing I would disagree with is that the Trinity is not a membership with members. The Trinity is the Three Divine Persons who are the One God- hence we say Tri- Unity. The Three who are One. You are correct there are roles and functions that distinguish the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

How can you disagree that Trinity is not a membership with members, if you at the same time agree that they have different minds? If God has three minds, God is a family or team with members. There is no other way to put it without falling in contradiction.

 

[Red Baker]

@Peterlag @Runningman

Arguments produced by Trinitarians...​

"Jesus is a God-Man"
"Jesus is 100% man and 100% God"
"Jesus resurrected himself"
"Jesus pre-existed his birth"
"Jesus is the Word"
"God incarnated"

1)

Revelation 22:3​

“And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:”

Revelation 22:17​

“And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.”

One God manifest as three to us. God, the Lamb, and the Spirit. All three share the "same" throne as ONE God.

2)

Matthew 28:19​

“Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:”

They equally share in the glory of our salvation from sin and condemnation, since they all three play a part in this great Salvation equally.

3)

John 1:1​

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”John 1:14
“And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.”

John 1:14​

“And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.”

John 4:24​

“God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.”

1st Timothy 3:16​

“And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.”

4)

2nd Corinthians 13:14​

“The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen.

5)

Matthew 16:19​

“And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”

Matthew 18:18​

“Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”

John 20:23​

“Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.”

As a child of God I say unto you, that if you reject Jesus' deity as the God of Genesis 1:1, you shall die in your sin.

Waiting on you to answer this.

Arguments produced by Trinitarians...​

"Jesus is a God-Man"
"Jesus is 100% man and 100% God"
"Jesus resurrected himself"
"Jesus pre-existed his birth"
"Jesus is the Word"
"God incarnated"

Which one of these seven points would you two like to discuss? Just remember, I'm not your typical school/university taught Trinitarian~but do believe that Jesus was God manifest in the flesh, yet God was not Jesus!

 

[Administrator]

You're Edit You keep proving it.

How come you can personally refer to me as edit, but I can't say the same to you?

cc: @civic
@Administrator

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