Your Views on The Trinity

[Victoria]

yes he is. if as you say, then tell us who sits on the Throne in rev chapter 4, ..... Revelation 4:11 "Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created."

is not God the CREATOR? and is not JESUS the Lord who created all things (per John 1:3?) ... yes or no.

Amen!

 

[101G]

Like I told you a billion times. I don't do the book of Revelation.

no Problem, is the Word, John 1:3, who is the Lord Jesus is the same creator who is in Isaiah 44:24... yes or no?

101G.

 

[Peterlag]

no Problem, is the Word, John 1:3, who is the Lord Jesus is the same creator who is in Isaiah 44:24... yes or no?

101G.

John 1:3 “Everything came to be through it.” The logos is an “it” not a “him.”

Translators have deliberately chosen to use “him” because they wanted to emphasize that the Word was the male person we know as Jesus. This was a theological choice, not a linguistic one.

"Do not forsake wisdom, and she will protect you; love her, and she will watch over you” (Proverbs 4:6).

Is the Wisdom in Proverbs 4:6 a distinct divine person?

The "Word" is not literally a person for the same reason that "Wisdom" is not literally a person. Both are to be taken metaphorically.

Jesus is the personification of the Word because He speaks the words of God. To listen to Jesus equals listening to the Word of God.

People often say I'm wrong when I post this because they say I looked it up in an Interlinear or Concordance and it shows the word is a "him" and not an "it." Those reference books show how the Bible translates a word and not what the Greek actually means. The pronoun is an "it" when it refers to an inanimate noun like the "Word" because Greek has grammatical gender and the "Word" in John 1 is a thing so the Greek says it's an "it."

Here's a partial list of how "logos" is translated in the New Testament...

cause, communication, sayings, saying, word, words, account, talk, question, treatise, intent, tidings, speaker, matter, mouth, work, utterance, preaching, speech, concerning, show, do, doctrine, reason, with, and thing.

The trinitarian has only 3 to pick from...

1.) Use a verse from a bad translation.
2.) Use a verse that is taken out of context.
3.) Not understand how the words were used in the culture they were written in.

And basically that's all trinitarians have. And I mean 100 percent of what they have. They have nothing else.

 

[101G]

The word "christ" means anointing in Greek. The Hebrew equivalent is "messiah" which still means anointing. The prophets in the Old Testament are messiah or christos (anointed) but not said to have the spirit of someone in the. You can see more about Elisha and Elijah (1 Kings 19:16) and prophets in general are anointed ones (Psalm 105:15) so there is nothing to suggest there that literally the spirit of Jesus was in them. There is nothing in the Bible about Jesus pre-existing.

Error, was not the "Spirit" that was in the OT Prophets the One, same one Spirit .... the Holy Spirit? who is Jesus the Lord? YES or NO.... before you ANSWER, read, 2 Peter 1:21 "For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost."

so, is this two different "Spirit" that was in the prophets of old? re-read 1 Peter 1:10 and 11.

now your answer please...... "is this not the same one "Spirit"?" yes or no.

101G.

 

[101G]

John 1:3 “Everything came to be through it.” The logos is an “it” not a “him.”

well the him was made flesh, listen, John 1:14 "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth."

so, what is the name of the .... "IT" .... then? ... your answer please.

101G.

 

[Runningman]

Amen. I write it like this...

Prophets, Priests, and Kings were anointed before they assumed office that signified royal competence. Anointing was a means of investing someone with power, such as the anointment of King Solomon to signify divine sanctification and approval. Aaron was the first to be anointed for the priesthood, and the High Priest was often called the anointed Priest. The prophet Elijah was anointed and received the command to anoint Elisha. The character of the anointment gave the King the privilege of becoming the Lord’s anointed, that signified he was to serve God and reign in God’s stead over the people. The right to anoint the King was executed by the Prophet, and then later in time, only the High Priest had the right to anoint the King.

The title “the Lord’s anointed” was later shortened to “anointed.” The Hebrew, in the Aramaic form uses the word “messiah.” The Greeks translated “messiah” into the Greek as “Christ.” Jesus was anointed as Prophet, Priest, and King to signify the fulfillment of the promised messiah. Jesus was also anointed by God with the holy spirit and with power (Acts 10:38). As believers we are anointed by God because of the seed of Christ that is born within us. “Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God” (2 Corinthians 1:21).

Right, exactly. They seem to think that any time anywhere the word christ or messiah is mentioned it's automatically about Jesus. There are too many theologically assumptions made, too often, and it starts to not really make sense anymore.

With something about important as who God is, it shouldn't be a side doctrine inferred and/or interpreted from verses scattered around the Bible. If God is a trinity and Jesus pre-existed, then you would think people would have been coming right out and saying it, but no one ever did. Ever. Not even once.

 

[101G]

Translators have deliberately chosen to use “him” because they wanted to emphasize that the Word was the male person we know as Jesus. This was a theological choice, not a linguistic one.

so, we can take this as an excuse.... still no problem. scripture, Hebrews 1:10 "And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:"

so, the Lord laid the foundation of the EARTH... correct. now this, Zechariah 12:1 "The burden of the word of the LORD for Israel, saith the LORD, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him."

well Pete, tell us who Laid the foundation of the earth? your answer please.

101G.

 

[101G]

Right, exactly. They seem to think that any time anywhere the word christ or messiah is mentioned it's automatically about Jesus. There are too many theologically assumptions made, too often, and it starts to not really make sense anymore.

With something about important as who God is, it shouldn't be a side doctrine inferred and/or interpreted from verses scattered around the Bible. If God is a trinity and Jesus pre-existed, then you would think people would have been coming right out and saying it, but no one ever did. Ever. Not even once.

Run can you tell us who this is? Isaiah 35:4 "Say to them that are of a fearful heart, Be strong, fear not: behold, your God will come with vengeance, even God with a recompence; he will come and save you."

and please read carefully this verse.... and the few verses that follow..... and tell us who you believe that this is.

101G

 

[101G]

Is the Wisdom in Proverbs 4:6 a distinct divine person?

Wisdom is only ONE PERSON, and this clearly stated in the proverb 8:22-31. is this not correct?

101G.

 

[Runningman]

Error, was not the "Spirit" that was in the OT Prophets the One, same one Spirit .... the Holy Spirit? who is Jesus the Lord? YES or NO.... before you ANSWER, read, 2 Peter 1:21 "For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost."

so, is this two different "Spirit" that was in the prophets of old? re-read 1 Peter 1:10 and 11.

now your answer please...... "is this not the same one "Spirit"?" yes or no.

101G.

No, Jesus was not in the Old Testament anywhere. The Bible never states the Spirit in the OT was Jesus himself. Did you ever read anyone say that anywhere in the Bible? If you have seen it, please show us. The Spirit in the prophets was God who is not Jesus. The spirit of Christ is not God.

The spirit of Jesus is explicitly distinguished from the Spirit of God:

Matthew 12
32Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the one to come.

Son of man = Jesus
Holy Spirit = not Jesus

Do you see the difference in consequences for speaking against Jesus as compared to speaking against the Holy Spirit? I assume you can see that. Why do you conflate Jesus with the Spirit when they are not the same?

 

[101G]

No, Jesus was not in the Old Testament anywhere. The Bible never states the Spirit in the OT was Jesus himself. Did you ever read anyone say that anywhere in the Bible? If you have seen it, please show us. The Spirit in the prophets was God who is not Jesus. The spirit of Christ is not God.

The spirit of Jesus is explicitly distinguished from the Spirit of God:

Matthew 12
32Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the one to come.

Son of man = Jesus
Holy Spirit = not Jesus

Do you see the difference in consequences for speaking against Jesus as compared to speaking against the Holy Spirit? I assume you can see that. Why do you conflate Jesus with the Spirit when they are not the same?

You said, "No, Jesus was not in the Old Testament anywhere. The Bible never states the Spirit in the OT was Jesus himself."

let's see what the bible say about that then.... 1 Corinthians 10:3 "And did all eat the same spiritual meat;" 1 Corinthians 10:4 "And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ."

You said, "The spirit of Jesus is explicitly distinguished from the Spirit of God". let's see what the bible say, Revelation 4:11 "Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created."

is this the "Spirit" ... God, the Lord Jesus who sits on the throne and "for thou hast created all things", (Per Isaiah 44:24). is this not the same one PERSON?

101G.

 

[101G]

The "Word" is not literally a person for the same reason that "Wisdom" is not literally a person. Both are to be taken metaphorically.

Another ERROR on your part. Proverb 8:22 rebukes you on Wisdom personified. and John 1:14, the Word is a "PERSON", as well

101G.

 

[Runningman]

Run can you tell us who this is? Isaiah 35:4 "Say to them that are of a fearful heart, Be strong, fear not: behold, your God will come with vengeance, even God with a recompence; he will come and save you."

and please read carefully this verse.... and the few verses that follow..... and tell us who you believe that this is.

101G

It explicitly says God (YHWH) so that isn't Jesus. Next easy question.

 

[101G]

Son of man = Jesus
Holy Spirit = not Jesus

Another ERROR on your part. scripture,
Matthew 16:28 "Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom." .... NOW THIS,

Luke 9:27 "But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God."

Notice both of these scriptures. is not the Holy Spirit the KINGDOM of GOD? lets see. Romans 14:17 "For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost."


and is not the Holy Spirit the "COMFORTER?" listen carefully, THE Lord JESUS SPEAKING, John 14:16 "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;" John 14:17 "Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you." John 14:18 "I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you."

When did the Lord Jesus RETURNED? answer on the day of Pentecost, Matthew 16:28 "Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom."

Oh how so easy it is.

101G.

 

[Runningman]

You said, "No, Jesus was not in the Old Testament anywhere. The Bible never states the Spirit in the OT was Jesus himself."

let's see what the bible say about that then.... 1 Corinthians 10:3 "And did all eat the same spiritual meat;" 1 Corinthians 10:4 "And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ."

Spiritual things are not a person. That was all foreshadowing.

You said, "The spirit of Jesus is explicitly distinguished from the Spirit of God". let's see what the bible say, Revelation 4:11 "Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created."

What about it? It says God, not Jesus.

is this the "Spirit" ... God, the Lord Jesus who sits on the throne and "for thou hast created all things", (Per Isaiah 44:24). is this not the same one PERSON?

101G.

Huh, where did you get the idea Jesus is "God, the Lord Jesus" sitting on the throne?

 

[101G]

It explicitly says God (YHWH) so that isn't Jesus. Next easy question.

LOL, did you read the following verses? np.... Listen and Learn, Isaiah 35:4 "Say to them that are of a fearful heart, Be strong, fear not: behold, your God will come with vengeance, even God with a recompence; he will come and save you."

Isaiah 35:5 "Then the eyes of the blind shall be opened, and the ears of the deaf shall be unstopped."
When God came, did he not open the eyes of the blind, and open deaf ears?

Isaiah 35:6 "Then shall the lame man leap as an hart, and the tongue of the dumb sing: for in the wilderness shall waters break out, and streams in the desert."
Who did that when he came?


NOW, as for YHWH, is he not the ONLY "SAVIOUR?" let's see, Luke 2:11 "For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord."

is this not the Saviour? let the bible speak, Titus 2:10 "Not purloining, but shewing all good fidelity; that they may adorn the doctrine of God our Saviour in all things." .... OR 2 Timothy 1:10 "But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:"

Hmmmmmm, "the doctrine of God our Saviour in all things." ... the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ"

so, God is our Saviour, Jesus Christ... (smile)................... NEXT.......... YIKES!

101G.

 

[101G]

Spiritual things are not a person. That was all foreshadowing.

Another ERROR, God is a Person..... do not God have a soul...... (smile).

What about it? It says God, not Jesus.

LOL, 101G, just as the BIBLE say it's the Lord Jesus. or do you say it's the Father? yes or no... your answer please.... (smile).

101G.

 

[Peterlag]

Another ERROR on your part. Proverb 8:22 rebukes you on Wisdom personified. and John 1:14, the Word is a "PERSON", as well

101G.

John 1:14 is not a teaching on the trinity or that we should believe or confess that Jesus is God. The "Word" is the wisdom, plan or purpose of God and the Word became flesh as Jesus Christ. Thus, Jesus Christ was the Word in the flesh, which is shortened to the Word for ease of speaking. Scripture is also the Word in writing. Everyone agrees that the Word in writing had a beginning. So did the Word in the flesh. In fact, the Greek text of Matthew 1:18 says that very clearly: "Now the beginning of Jesus Christ was in this manner..." The modern Greek texts all read "beginning" in Matthew 1:18. Birth is considered an acceptable translation since the beginning of some things is birth, and so most translations read birth. Nevertheless, the proper understanding of Matthew 1:18 is the beginning of Jesus Christ. In the beginning God had a plan, a purpose, which became flesh when Jesus was conceived.

The trinitarian has only 3 to pick from...

1.) Use a verse from a bad translation.
2.) Use a verse that is taken out of context.
3.) Not understand how the words were used in the culture they were written in.

And basically that's all trinitarians have. And I mean 100 percent of what they have. They have nothing else.

 

[Peterlag]

so, we can take this as an excuse.... still no problem. scripture, Hebrews 1:10 "And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:"

so, the Lord laid the foundation of the EARTH... correct. now this, Zechariah 12:1 "The burden of the word of the LORD for Israel, saith the LORD, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him."

well Pete, tell us who Laid the foundation of the earth? your answer please.

101G.

The Lord God laid the foundation of the earth. Not the Lord Jesus.

 

[Peterlag]

Right, exactly. They seem to think that any time anywhere the word christ or messiah is mentioned it's automatically about Jesus. There are too many theologically assumptions made, too often, and it starts to not really make sense anymore.

With something about important as who God is, it shouldn't be a side doctrine inferred and/or interpreted from verses scattered around the Bible. If God is a trinity and Jesus pre-existed, then you would think people would have been coming right out and saying it, but no one ever did. Ever. Not even once.

One way I write it is like this...

If there is a trinity then why not just come out and say it? Why do we have to jump all over the Bible cutting and pasting pieces of words that are scattered all over the Bible? Why not just teach it? I know enough about how the Bible is written in the New Testament and in the Gospels to know if there was a trinity it would have been taught. The Gospels would have clearly said...

Verily, verily I say unto you that I am Jesus and I'm also God.

The Epistles would have writings like...

Yay, I Paul do testify that Jesus who is God came down from heaven to be a man for us. And we do know and testify that this same Jesus who you crucified is God. And so let us bow our knee to the one and only true God-Man Jesus Christ.

And yet there's nothing like that anywhere. Not in the Old or New Testament. Not even one complete verse like that.