Your Views on The Trinity

[mikesw]

Which does absolutely nothing to undermine the exclusive deity of God the Father.

God made Jesus Lord and Christ. (Acts 2:36)

Nothing you shared denies the deity of Christ in the Godhead.
Then you note the verse that says God installed Jesus as Lord and Christ. This again fails to make any rejection of Jesus in the Triune Godhead.

If you want to promote a novel, private interpretation of Jesus as not within the Godhead, you need to prepare an argument and bring it forth to competent scholars and theologians such that they are convinced. Instead, you try to promote it in a little forum, as if that had any relevance.

 

[Runningman]

Nothing you shared denies the deity of Christ in the Godhead.
Then you note the verse that says God installed Jesus as Lord and Christ. This again fails to make any rejection of Jesus in the Triune Godhead.

If you want to promote a novel, private interpretation of Jesus as not within the Godhead, you need to prepare an argument and bring it forth to competent scholars and theologians such that they are convinced. Instead, you try to promote it in a little forum, as if that had any relevance.

I think you don't understand what is happening here. We are proving the Father is the only true God, not trying to undo strawman arguments about things you imagine the Bible says. The absence of any info about Jesus in your definition of a Godhead is a powerful testament again your beliefs.

 

[mikesw]

I think you don't understand what is happening here. We are proving the Father is the only true God, not trying to undo strawman arguments about things you imagine the Bible says. The absence of any info about Jesus in your definition of a Godhead is a powerful testament again your beliefs.

If you deny the Triune God, you are also denying the Son. Hope you come out of that.

 

[Runningman]

If you deny the Triune God, you are also denying the Son. Hope you come out of that.

Not what anyone in the Bible said. Why do you suppose no one ever repeated your personal gospel?

 

[mikesw]

Not what anyone in the Bible said. Why do you suppose no one ever repeated your personal gospel?

You call billions of people with the recognition of the Triune God as a personal doctrine. That is the absurdity of your denials.

 

[Runningman]

You call billions of people with the recognition of the Triune God as a personal doctrine. That is the absurdity of your denials.

Yes, I do. Billions of deceived people throughout history, Jesus said it would be like this. The parable of the weeds in Matthew 13. That's the group you have chosen to belong to. It's filled to the brim with gullible and naive people who have no idea what the Bible says, then the next tier up are those who are so deeply indoctrinated you couldn't find your way out of a paper bag.

 

[mikesw]

Yes, I do. Billions of deceived people throughout history, Jesus said it would be like this. The parable of the weeds in Matthew 13. That's the group you have chosen to belong to. It's filled to the brim with gullible and naive people who have no idea what the Bible says, then the next tier up are those who are so deeply indoctrinated you couldn't find your way out of a paper bag.

Great. you show you do not understand Matthew 13 either. You are claiming a new doctrine as if everyone before you was deceived. That is quite arrogant and demands that you have evidence to convince theologians and scholars. Prepare the physical gathering place to make your argument

 

[Runningman]

Great. you show you do not understand Matthew 13 either. You are claiming a new doctrine as if everyone before you was deceived. That is quite arrogant and demands that you have evidence to convince theologians and scholars. Prepare the physical gathering place to make your argument

I understand it, but you don't understand it. You don't understand much of anything. You seem to just be sock puppet for your organization's propaganda department.

 

[charismaticlady]

Two are mentioned... God and Jesus. The verse does not say God who is Jesus.

It says Jesus is both God and Savior. Peter, it couldn't be clearer. At least it was very clear to me and it was seared into me like a rhema from the Spirit. Keep an open mind.

 

[charismaticlady]

Most of Paul's letter start off something like how Romans 1 does, clearly identifying who is God and who isn't. It's telling of their state of mind that they ignore all context and push false ideas.

Verse 7... To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Great point.

cc: @charismaticlady

Yes, Jesus embodies the Father and Spirit, the Godhead. But you cannot deny that Jesus is our great God and Savior from Titus 2:13. Be honest.

 

[Capbook]

Correct, the First and the Last isn't an exclusive divine title. It refers to category, "the first and the last" of something. Jesus is the First and the Last Messiah, but not the First and the Last God. God, Almighty, etc are titles Jesus doesn't have in Scripture. This is the only sensible interpretation that makes sense or else the consequence is the Bible portrays an immortal God who can die, which is contradictory and erroneous. Many Trinitarian commentators have come to agree with this necessary conclusion.

So First and the Last isn't a title that means Jesus is God. Anyone else want to take a swing at trying to force deity onto Jesus?

May I know where in the Bible that says Jesus is "the First and the Last Messiah?"
Or you just add words to the Bible to align with your belief. Be aware what Jesus said in Revelation 22:18, "if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues which are written in this book."

Are you insinuating that the Almighty God the Father is trying to force Deity unto Jesus? (Heb 1:8,9)
Or just deny the Father's words just to stand on your preconceived belief whatever the cost.
Psalms 45:6,7 was in reference to God Jesus' forever and ever throne cited in the New Testament.(Heb 1:8)

 

[Runningman]

May I know where in the Bible that says Jesus is "the First and the Last Messiah?"
Or you just add words to the Bible to align with your belief. Be aware what Jesus said in Revelation 22:18, "if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues which are written in this book."

Are you insinuating that the Almighty God the Father is trying to force Deity unto Jesus? (Heb 1:8,9)
Or just deny the Father's words just to stand on your preconceived belief whatever the cost.
Psalms 45:6,7 was in reference to God Jesus' forever and ever throne cited in the New Testament.(Heb 1:8)

You're getting lost here. Let's start over with some very basic fundamental things.

1. Is God immortal?
2. Can God die?
3. Is God the First and the Last?
4. Did the First and Last die?

Deal with these foundational things first before getting all your wires crossed. We will rightly divide the word soon once you understand the above correctly.

 

[Peterlag]

Yes, Jesus embodies the Father and Spirit, the Godhead. But you cannot deny that Jesus is our great God and Savior from Titus 2:13. Be honest.

I am hones. It's God and Jesus. It's not God who is Jesus.

 

[Peterlag]

The proof is that Paul went all around the Romans empire informing everyone that God is the Father with no mention of Jesus sharing in that. That's Unitarian Paul. He repeated the same narrative all the way to Titus. I imagine trinitarians have a big goofy "gotcha" grin on their face when they ignore the context of everything Paul's letters states while simultaneously pushing idolatry.

Romans 1
7To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

1 Corinthians 1
3Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

2 Corinthians 1
2Grace be to you and peace from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

Galatians 3
3Grace be to you and peace from God the Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ,

Ephesians 1
2Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

Philippians 1
2Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

Colossians 1
2To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ which are at Colosse: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

1 Thessalonians 1
1Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians which is in God the Father and in the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

2 Thessalonians 1
2Grace unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

1 Timothy 1
2Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.

2 Timothy 1
2To Timothy, my dearly beloved son: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord.



Philemon 1
3Grace to you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

I will post this elsewhere.

 

[Peterlag]

Give me the scripture. I never read that.

I have read these

New International Version
while we wait for the blessed hope—the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ,

New Living Translation
while we look forward with hope to that wonderful day when the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, will be revealed.

English Standard Version
waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ,

Berean Standard Bible
as we await the blessed hope and glorious appearance of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ.

Berean Literal Bible
awaiting the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ,

New King James Version
looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ,

New American Standard Bible
looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus,

NASB 1995
looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus,

NASB 1977
looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus;

Legacy Standard Bible
looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ,

Amplified Bible
awaiting and confidently expecting the [fulfillment of our] blessed hope and the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus,

Christian Standard Bible
while we wait for the blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
while we wait for the blessed hope and appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ.

Contemporary English Version
We are filled with hope, as we wait for the glorious return of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ.

English Revised Version
looking for the blessed hope and appearing of the glory of our great God and Saviour Jesus Christ;

GOD'S WORD® Translation
At the same time we can expect what we hope for-the appearance of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ.

Good News Translation
as we wait for the blessed Day we hope for, when the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ will appear.

International Standard Version
as we wait for the blessed hope and glorious appearance of our great God and Savior, Jesus the Messiah.

NET Bible
as we wait for the happy fulfillment of our hope in the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ.

New Heart English Bible
looking for the blessed hope and appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ;

Weymouth New Testament
in expectation of the fulfilment of our blessed hope--the Appearing in glory of our great God and Saviour Jesus Christ;

Majority Text Translations

Majority Standard Bible
as we await the blessed hope and glorious appearance of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ.

World English Bible
looking for the blessed hope and appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ,

Literal Translations
Literal Standard Version
waiting for the blessed hope and appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ,

Berean Literal Bible
awaiting the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ,

Young's Literal Translation
waiting for the blessed hope and manifestation of the glory of our great God and Saviour Jesus Christ,

New Revised Standard Version
while we wait for the blessed hope and the manifestation of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ.

NT Translations
Anderson New Testament
looking for the blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ,

Godbey New Testament
looking for the blessed hope even the appearing of the glory of our great God and our Saviour Christ Jesus;

Haweis New Testament
expecting the blessed hope, and glorious appearing of our great God and Saviour Jesus Christ;

Weymouth New Testament
in expectation of the fulfilment of our blessed hope--the Appearing in glory of our great God and Saviour Jesus Christ;

YET..... Jimmys translation says it that way..... but they are confused in and of themselves.... (Not my choice)

King James Bible
Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

And the Catholics...........

Catholic Translations
Douay-Rheims Bible
Looking for the blessed hope and coming of the glory of the great God and our Savior Jesus Christ,

Catholic Public Domain Version
looking forward to the blessed hope and the advent of the glory of the great God and of our Savior Jesus Christ.

Paul repeated the same narrative all the way to Titus.

Romans 1:7
To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

1 Corinthians 1:3
Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

2 Corinthians 1:2
Grace be to you and peace from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

Galatians 3:3
Grace be to you and peace from God the Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ,

Ephesians 1:2
Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

Philippians 1:2
Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

Colossians 1:2
To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ which are at Colosse: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

1 Thessalonians 1:1
Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians which is in God the Father and in the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

2 Thessalonians 1:2
Grace unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

1 Timothy 1:2
Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.

2 Timothy 1:2
To Timothy, my dearly beloved son: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord.

Titus 1:4
To Titus, mine own son after the common faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ our Saviour.

Philemon 1:3
Grace to you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[mikesw]

Paul repeated the same narrative all the way to Titus.

Romans 1:7
To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

1 Corinthians 1:3
Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

2 Corinthians 1:2
Grace be to you and peace from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

Galatians 3:3
Grace be to you and peace from God the Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ,

Ephesians 1:2
Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

Philippians 1:2
Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

Colossians 1:2
To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ which are at Colosse: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

1 Thessalonians 1:1
Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians which is in God the Father and in the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

2 Thessalonians 1:2
Grace unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

1 Timothy 1:2
Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.

2 Timothy 1:2
To Timothy, my dearly beloved son: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord.

Titus 1:4
To Titus, mine own son after the common faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ our Saviour.

Philemon 1:3
Grace to you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

This does not deal with the passages showing Jesus as deity or the pre-existence passages. So this list has no significance on the central issues of the debate.

 

[Capbook]

You're getting lost here. Let's start over with some very basic fundamental things.

1. Is God immortal?
2. Can God die?
3. Is God the First and the Last?
4. Did the First and Last die?

Deal with these foundational things first before getting all your wires crossed. We will rightly divide the word soon once you understand the above correctly.

Ok, is this a confirmation that you do not believe the Father's words? (Heb 1:8,9)

1. Yes, God is immortal, "the First and the Last" in Isaiah 41:4
2. As to Jesus Divine nature will not die, but His human flesh died.(1Pet 3:18)
3. Yes, (Isaiah 41:4) The LORD Almighty God said it.
4. First and the last refers to the Father and also to Jesus' Divine nature will not die, (Isa 41:4, Rev 1:17, 22:13,16 ) Jesus human flesh died.(1Pet 3:18)

Now, prove that "the First and the Last died" is a Biblical phrase.
Or you just added words to the Bible an alarming deed. "If anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues which are written in this book." (Rev 22:18)