Your views on human beings having a sin nature
- Thread starter Obadiah
- Start date
Bob Carabbio
Well-known member
Chuckle!! So you know nothing of the Christian life then, and apparently never understood 1 John 1:9.
Since we are taught that those who sin are enslaved to sin, John 8:34, and all mankind are sinners, it is obvious that mankind is different from those who have never chosen to sin, that is, the holy angels.
I think it is enough to see that the sinfulness of mankind reflects our enslavement to the addictive quality of sin rather than havig to be accredited to a change of our nature within us.
Before the holy angels became holy and the fallen angels became fallen they must have been innocent with a free will. This implies that an innocent is capable of choosing either holiness or sin and that the choice to sin against GOD that enslaves sinners does indicate a change of something which I suggests only reflects our enslavement to evil rather than a some radical change in our very nature.
Innocent people whose nature is as GOD created them can choose to sin and need no change in nature to cause that choice...that is, the ability to sin is part of our creation. It is only after we sin that sin has power over us and everything we do is tainted by our sinfulness and since we can sin as innocents we do not need to think sin causes a change of nature when becoming enslaved to sin covers the bases.
I think it is enough to see that the sinfulness of mankind reflects our enslavement to the addictive quality of sin rather than havig to be accredited to a change of our nature within us.
Before the holy angels became holy and the fallen angels became fallen they must have been innocent with a free will. This implies that an innocent is capable of choosing either holiness or sin and that the choice to sin against GOD that enslaves sinners does indicate a change of something which I suggests only reflects our enslavement to evil rather than a some radical change in our very nature.
Innocent people whose nature is as GOD created them can choose to sin and need no change in nature to cause that choice...that is, the ability to sin is part of our creation. It is only after we sin that sin has power over us and everything we do is tainted by our sinfulness and since we can sin as innocents we do not need to think sin causes a change of nature when becoming enslaved to sin covers the bases.
pssst while the expert theologians hash this out are we or were not... why do we need to be born again. .if we dont have a sinful nature and btw even after salvation we have to keep the old man in check Galatians 2:20 crucified with Christ Roman 12:1-2 present our bodies a living sacrifice and not conformed to the world .. so yes we have a sinful nature scripture rights to sin Not but if we do we have a advocate .. to think all i have is a phd pilled high deep degree
brightfame52
Well-known member
Even the most spiritual of men will experience while in this body of flesh servitude of sin and carnality Rom 7:14-25
14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
Now if it be so with the regenerate, how much more the servitude , and captivity to sin and the flesh with the unregenerate ?
If the regenerate needs deliverance from the body of death, what of the unregenerate ?
Deuteronomy 30:19 (KJV 1900) — 19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:
The Rogue Tomato
Well-known member
I call physics to record this day against you, that I have set before you a task, to fly flapping your arms; therefore choose to fly, that you may see the world from above.
civic
Well-known member
He didn’t say the Holy Spirit was in himStrike this line out of Psalms since it occurs before Calvary.
Psalm 51:11 Do not cast me away from Your presence And do not take Your Holy Spirit from me.
From him so there is a difference
The Rogue Tomato
Well-known member
It's a good thing you put smileys there, because that would REALLY stupid if you were serious.He didn’t say the Holy Spirit was in him
From him so there is a difference
utter nonsense and diversion
civic
Well-known member
Where does David or any other OT prophet say the H.S. Dwelled in them permanently?
The Rogue Tomato
Well-known member
No, telling people to choose between the law as described in Deuteronomy for a blessing and curse does not mean they have the ability to make that choice. In fact, the purpose of the law was to tell them what they OUGHT to do, and to make them aware that they CAN'T do it without God. See Paul and coveting.
The Rogue Tomato
Well-known member
Tell me, if that choice was viable, and you could choose life by following the law, then why is it that we are not under law, but under grace? What it the need of grace if we could choose life by following the law?
Lets see
Deuteronomy 30:11–19 (KJV 1900) — 11 For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off. 12 It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? 13 Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? 14 But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it. 15 See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil; 16 In that I command thee this day to love the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the LORD thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it. 17 But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them; 18 I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish, and that ye shall not prolong your days upon the land, whither thou passest over Jordan to go to possess it. 19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:
seem scripture refutes your claim
The Rogue Tomato
Well-known member
Not at all. There's nothing in that text that says they have the ability to choose to follow the law in order to have life and blessings. T
Tell me, if that choice was viable, and you could choose life by following the law, then why is it that we are not under law, but under grace? What it the need of grace if we could choose life by following the law?
How long will you deny scripture
What was commanded they were stated to be able to do
Deuteronomy 30:11–19 (KJV 1900) — 11 For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off. 12 It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? 13 Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? 14 But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.
The Rogue Tomato
Well-known member
How long will you deny scripture?
7 What shall we say then? Is the Law sin? May it never be! On the contrary, I would not have come to know sin except through the Law; for I would not have known about coveting if the Law had not said, “You shall not covet.” 8 But sin, taking opportunity through the commandment, produced in me coveting of every kind; for apart from the Law sin is dead. 9 I was once alive apart from the Law; but when the commandment came, sin became alive and I died; 10 and this commandment, which was to result in life, proved to result in death for me; 11 for sin, taking an opportunity through the commandment, deceived me and through it killed me. 12 So then, the Law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good.
How long will you deny scripture
What was commanded they were stated to be able to do
Deuteronomy 30:11–19 (KJV 1900) — 11 For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off. 12 It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? 13 Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? 14 But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.
The Rogue Tomato
Well-known member
The words are
thou mayest do it. KJV
so that you can do it. ESV
so you may obey it. NIV
that you may follow it. NASB
Clear statements of ability
Similar threads
