brightfame52
Active Member
Maybe you need reading glasses, says nothing about raising himself from the dead
Yes, Calvinists—free will IS in the Bible.
- Thread starter Diserner
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brightfame52
Active Member
You ignoring Christ finished accomplished work Heb 1:3
civic
Active Member
His finished work provides salvation for all the world to be received by faith in the gospel message about Christ.
praise_yeshua
Active Member
I didn't think I had to specifically recognize/mention that if Abel didn't fall under the "spiritual death" you see happening to Adam, then your argument is nonsense. You should care about Abel. God knows Adam and Eve cared about Abel.
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praise_yeshua
Active Member
Back to 2 Peter. 2 Peter 3 deals with the judgement of humanity. Peter deals with the flood. Things changed after the flood. Humanity was judged in the flood.
So don't tie this back to Adam and Eve. Leave them out of it or deal with how you tie this "spiritual death" all the way back to Adam and Eve.
I'm trying to tell you that you don't understand this at a very rudimentary level. You can't understand it at the level you're trying to participate.
I'm about to the point where this argument is becoming meaningless. Ultimately, believe whatever you want to believe. I'll leave you to it but don't try to insist you understand what you're posting from others.
@civic
The same prophets said these words:
The word of God was given to us that we may beleive that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God and that believing, we may HAVE THE KNOWLEDGE OF ETERNAL LIFE that he secured for us by his perfect life of faith and obedience on our behalf! All that we enjoy spiritual speaking, we enjoy on the behalf of what Christ has done for us according to such scriptures as this one:
I'll come back later...
That's impossible, that's like saying, the power/ability to talk, precedes life. It is an oxymoron statement.
Civic, the only ones which are able to hear this message from the LORD, are those already born again ~ children of God often fall into sin, or at least allow themselves to grow cold toward God and allow themselves to grown lukewarm toward doing their duties as God's children. The duties here mentioned are something we can, and should do often as needed. God was speaking to the Israelites not to some heathen nations, who did not know him.
The same prophets said these words:
Ezekiel 36:26
“A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.”
So, before one can do as Ezekiel 18:30-32, they must first be given a new heart and spirit by the power of God, or else they could never on their own heed Ezekiel 18:30-32. Both messages by the prophet are true, you just leave out the most important truth, of God "first" quickening their dead spirit and removing the heart of stone that all have by nature.You are not understanding John's teachings, not even close. Context...........context is king!
Civic, our Lord was in the world and the world was made by him, yet the world knew him not! What a very sad commentary concerning mankind and their natural total depravity! But, it is even worse, he came unto his own, the Jewish people, children of Abraham, and his own received him not! Notice John's next word: "BUT" as many as did received, the scriptures said these words: "to them gave he power to become the sons of God" Proving this great biblical truth~anyone that receives Christ, God gave them power/authority/right to do so, just as Christ taught us from such scriptures as:
Matthew 16:17
“And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.”You are not understanding the proper sense of these words that would flow with all scriptures.
The word of God was given to us that we may beleive that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God and that believing, we may HAVE THE KNOWLEDGE OF ETERNAL LIFE that he secured for us by his perfect life of faith and obedience on our behalf! All that we enjoy spiritual speaking, we enjoy on the behalf of what Christ has done for us according to such scriptures as this one:
Philippians 1:29
“For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;”I'll come back later...
praise_yeshua
Active Member
Augustine taught you well. I wish Augustine was here to defend what he taught you.
So... how did YOU get past this "total depravity" you experienced?
I'd love for you tell us all how YOU are different. Lets explore that claim.
You can't hear without a preacher.
Rom 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
That preacher MUST express God's words to you in human language that you can understand.
1Co 14:9 So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air.
brightfame52
Active Member
His accomplished work is that He purged away the sins of them He died for. Heb 1:3
Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:
And the True Gospel makes that Truth known ! Thats our salvation from the penalty of sin.
Neil Spargo
Active Member
He died for everyone's sins but not everyone will accept His free gift of salvation.
“Faithful is the saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners.”—1 TIM. 1:15
Faith in Jesus Christ as the Savior is the only “step” to salvation. The message of the Bible is abundantly clear. We have all sinned against God.
Since all have sinned and are falling short of the honor and glory which God bestows and receives. Romans 3:23
Because of our sin, we deserve to be eternally separated from God
For the wages which sin pays is death, but the [bountiful] free gift of God is eternal life through (in union with) Jesus Christ our Lord. Romans 6:23
Because of His love for us (John 3:16), God took on human form and died in our place, taking the punishment that we deserve.
God promises forgiveness of sins and eternal life in heaven to all who receive, by grace through faith, Jesus Christ as Savior.
brightfame52
Active Member
False everyone sins He died for have been purged away, their guilt is gone! Legally they are saved from their sins !
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civic
Active Member
Amen
Newsflash this is not about Adam or Eve
Ephesians 2:1–5 (LEB) — 1 And you, although you were dead in your trespasses and sins, 2 in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the ruler of the authority of the air, the spirit now working in the sons of disobedience, 3 among whom also we all formerly lived in the desires of our flesh, doing the will of the flesh and of the mind, and we were children of wrath by nature, as also the rest of them were. 4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of his great love with which he loved us, 5 and we being dead in trespasses, he made us alive together with Christ (by grace you are saved),
These are living people who were dead in their trespasses and sin
How were they dead?
Colossians 2:13 (LEB) — 13 And although you were dead in the trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, he made you alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses,
Again these people were dead in the trespasses and the uncircumcision of their flesh but were made alive having forgiven their trespasses
How were they dead?
1 Timothy 5:6 (LEB) — 6 But the one who lives for sensual pleasure is dead even though she lives.
This woman was currently dead
How so?
Here one is dead though physically alive
1 John 3:14 (LEB) — 14 We know that we have passed over from death to life because we love the brothers. The one who does not love remains in death.
These all passed from death
What death did they pass from?
1 John 3:14 (LEB) — 14 We know that we have passed over from death to life because we love the brothers. The one who does not love remains in death.
What death are these passing from?
Again
It is not physical and your denial of a form of death that is not physical is unbiblical
So what you have been stating is the real clear lack of understanding.
Sorry but you provide no evidence at all regarding the issue of a death that is not physical and exists in those physically living.
Further, you address no scriptures that speak of it.
Spiritual death concerns the relationship between God and man
The brother of Abel killing him does not speak of that relationship.
So is irrelevant to the issue at hand.
Duh it looks like you do not read anything that is posted
You are ignoring multiple verses of scripture
Galatians 2:16 (LEB) — 16 but knowing that a person is not justified by the works of the law, if not by faith in Jesus Christ, and we have believed in Christ Jesus so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no human being will be justified.
Acts 13:39 (LEB) — 39 by this one everyone who believes is justified!
Romans 4:1–3 (LEB) — 1 What then shall we say that Abraham, our ancestor according to the flesh, has found? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the scripture say? “And Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him for righteousness.”
Romans 3:28 (LEB) — 28 For we consider a person to be justified by faith apart from the works of the law.
Galatians 3:24 (LEB) — 24 So then, the law became our guardian until Christ, in order that we could be justified by faith.
Romans 5:1 (LEB) — 1 Therefore, because we have been declared righteous by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
Concerning Hebrews
based upon your assumed understanding of Hebrew 1:3
A means of purification of sin was created, but how it was to be applied is not stated.
And you simply ignore what the book has to say regarding how righteousness is obtained.
Hebrews 11:7 (LEB) — 7 By faith Noah, having been warned about things not yet seen, out of reverence constructed an ark for the deliverance of his family, by which he pronounced sentence on the world and became an heir of the righteousness that comes by faith.
Maybe you need to pay a little attention
My post is not about the prodigal raising himself up out of a grave
But about him going from death to life in relation to his father
He had not physically died
Try reading the text for a change
Luke 15:17–24 (NASB95) — 17 “But when he came to his senses, he said, ‘How many of my father’s hired men have more than enough bread, but I am dying here with hunger! 18 ‘I will get up and go to my father, and will say to him, “Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in your sight; 19 I am no longer worthy to be called your son; make me as one of your hired men.” ’ 20 “So he got up and came to his father. But while he was still a long way off, his father saw him and felt compassion for him, and ran and embraced him and kissed him. 21 “And the son said to him, ‘Father, I have sinned against heaven and in your sight; I am no longer worthy to be called your son.’ 22 “But the father said to his slaves, ‘Quickly bring out the best robe and put it on him, and put a ring on his hand and sandals on his feet; 23 and bring the fattened calf, kill it, and let us eat and celebrate; 24 for this son of mine was dead and has come to life again; he was lost and has been found.’ And they began to celebrate.
brightfame52
Active Member
He finished the work purged their sins and sat down at the right hand of God. No one Christ died for has any sin charged against them not ever
brightfame52
Active Member
Says nothing about raising himself from the dead. That's God's work by the way
Sorry, but those who would be in Christ were chosen to be holy and blameless before God in Love.
That would be when they believed, but before that
Ephesians 2:1–3 (LEB) — 1 And you, although you were dead in your trespasses and sins, 2 in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the ruler of the authority of the air, the spirit now working in the sons of disobedience, 3 among whom also we all formerly lived in the desires of our flesh, doing the will of the flesh and of the mind, and we were children of wrath by nature, as also the rest of them were.
Can you read?
The passage is about him going from death to life in relation to his father
He had not physically died
Luke 15:17–24 (NASB95) — 17 “But when he came to his senses, he said, ‘How many of my father’s hired men have more than enough bread, but I am dying here with hunger! 18 ‘I will get up and go to my father, and will say to him, “Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in your sight; 19 I am no longer worthy to be called your son; make me as one of your hired men.” ’ 20 “So he got up and came to his father. But while he was still a long way off, his father saw him and felt compassion for him, and ran and embraced him and kissed him. 21 “And the son said to him, ‘Father, I have sinned against heaven and in your sight; I am no longer worthy to be called your son.’ 22 “But the father said to his slaves, ‘Quickly bring out the best robe and put it on him, and put a ring on his hand and sandals on his feet; 23 and bring the fattened calf, kill it, and let us eat and celebrate; 24 for this son of mine was dead and has come to life again; he was lost and has been found.’ And they began to celebrate.
What did the father say?
praise_yeshua
Active Member
So you don't believe Adam and Eve spiritually died? I mean that what you've been saying. Are you denying that now? This is a good "newsflash" to me. We agree.
They're not either spiritually dead or physically death. They don't have Eternal Life. Thusly, they will die without God. They are under the disposition of death. Sooner or later, they will die. Nothing in what you're saying demands that they MUST be dead right at THE very moment Paul wrote these words.
Now. At this moment, every one of them are dead. DEAD. Get it? They have received their disposition that inevitable given their current condition at the moment of physical death. "Abiding in death" isn't being either spiritually dead or physically dead. It is a reference to an condition that isn't a finality. You are insisting that it is a done deal and a final disposition.
Now I'm going to ignore the remainder of this because it is generally the same answer that you've been ignoring from me for some time now. YOU are treating "day" and "death" as "moments" that requires finality at this very present moment regardless of circumstances.
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