praise_yeshua
Well-known member
That is simply your choice. Nothing more. You don't know the subject well enough yourself to make a educated determination.
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Would you sin..... to...
- Thread starter praise_yeshua
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That is simply your choice. Nothing more. You don't know the subject well enough yourself to make a educated determination.
The sinners in Sheol are those that are called the sons of GOD in Job 38:7...while the morning stars sang together and all the sons of God shouted for joy?, Berean Standard Bible, which phrase seems to be intentionally hidden by the eisegetical interpretation that it merely means angels which is only a job description of some of the sons of GOD, not a race or type of being.Now you want to call them "Sons of God"?
Even the scripture that tells us that some people are NOT HIS children because they perverted themselves, Deuteronomy 32:5 They have corrupted themselves; They are not His children because of their blemish but a perverse and crooked generation. implies that sinners USED TO BE HIS children!
It certainly fits the language and the situation to see these illegitimate sons of GOD (the earthly reprobate in contrast to the legitimate earthly sons of GOD, Heb 12:6) as being the ones imprisoned in Sheol because of their unforgivable sin of repudiating YHWH as a liar and therefore a false god, ie the Satanic demons, who are sown into the world, Matt 13:36-39, and who then return to Sheol after their death, Ps 9:17.
Will you exegete Matthew 13:36-39 for us now?
Although I do think I've had one or two insights into this theology, the theology of our pce as found in the Bible was taught to me and is not a product of my imagination.That is an elaborate imagination you have there.
I am indeed careful with the word tartarus and other words also, and have only suggested that to interpret it as hell, the place of eternal torment, is suspect because hell is NOT a translation of the word, but an interpretation.You need to be careful when dealing with Tartarus.
Glad you enjoyed it!I don't need your preferred scholars. I know the evidence myself. Have you "scholars" engage on the matter.
I trust the Greek edition of Psalms that is in the KJV. As referenced, your appealing to scholars that use the KJV. Oh what irony.
All acceptance of the truth is by faith, not proof. Your interpretation vrs my own. I tell you what scriptures I use and why I interpret them the way I do and how they all fit into the wider context of our creation, our fall and the reasons for our earthly existence.That is simply your choice. Nothing more. You don't know the subject well enough yourself to make a educated determination.
You won't even tell us the meaning of three simple verses, sigh.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
Although I do think I've had one or two insights into this theology, the theology of our pce as found in the Bible was taught to me and is not a product of my imagination.
PCE? What do you consider PCE to be?
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
All acceptance of the truth is by faith, not proof. Your interpretation vrs my own. I tell you what scriptures I use and why I interpret them the way I do and how they all fit into the wider context of our creation, our fall and the reasons for our earthly existence.
You won't even tell us the meaning of three simple verses, sigh.
Why should it be my goal to give you exegesis of those three verses? You obviously don't want to deal with your comments.
Mat 13:38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
Mat 13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
Then cometh the wicked one....
Mat 13:19 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.
My goodness. PCE is the short reference to our Pre-Conception Existence which is the name I use for the theology which I contend for as a better understanding of our creation, our fall and the reasons for our earthly existence.PCE? What do you consider PCE to be?
Everything I write about (I am a one trick pony as it were) is PCE Theology...
My PCE is:
- Trinitarian,
- Saved by grace not works,
- Saved by faith, not proof in a theology,
- Election and reprobation by merit or dismerit as based upon our free will responses to YHWH's proclamation to be our GOD and our Saviour from any and all sins except for the unforgivable sin of repudiating HIS claims and so putting oneself outside of HIS mercy forever,
- and we are conceived on earth as sinners because of our free will choice to be sinful pre-earth, not because of anything Adam did or did not do...
I can't think of anything else at the moment but feel free to ask.
I've dealt with every one - it is you who are not dealing with honest questions...Why should it be my goal to give you exegesis of those three verses? You obviously don't want to deal with your comments.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
I've dealt with every one - it is you who are not dealing with honest questions...
Name one that I haven't answered?
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
My goodness. PCE is the short reference to our Pre-Conception Existence which is the name I use for the theology which I contend for as a better understanding of our creation, our fall and the reasons for our earthly existence.
Everything I write about (I am a one trick pony as it were) is PCE Theology...
My PCE is:
- Trinitarian,
- Saved by grace not works,
- Saved by faith, not proof in a theology,
- Election and reprobation by merit or dismerit as based upon our free will responses to YHWH's proclamation to be our GOD and our Saviour from any and all sins except for the unforgivable sin of repudiating HIS claims and so putting oneself outside of HIS mercy forever,
- and we are conceived on earth as sinners because of our free will choice to be sinful pre-earth, not because of anything Adam did or did not do...
I can't think of anything else at the moment but feel free to ask.
" because of our free will choice to be sinful pre-earth"
Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
Notice when sin entered this world.
Who is this man?
Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
...but this verse is about the parable of the sower, a totally different parable in which the seed is the the word of the kingdom in one's heart whereas the seed in the parable of the weeds is explicitly said to refer to people, the sons of the kingdom (not the word) and the sons of the evil one in the explanation of the parable, verses Matt 13:36-39...Mat 13:19 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.
It says sin entered with Adam and with his sin the death promised for all sin. It does not say Adam's SIN passed upon all men but the death he brought into the world passed onto all men - all who were already sinners but who had to come under one death in Adam by being sown into mankind so Christ would not have to die for each elect sinner over and over, one at a time.Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
It also suggests that sin entered the world with Adam but we know that is false because the serpent entered the garden fully leavened in sin and planning to subvert Eve. Also that Eve sinned and then tempted Adam to sin. This makes Adam the 3d to sin in the garden unless...
unless he was a sinner before the garden and brought that sin with him when he was sown into the garden, into this world by the breath of GOD.
Yes, that is the way I think of it too...Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
...but this verse is about the parable of the sower, a totally different parable in which the seed is the the word of the kingdom in one's heart whereas the seed in the parable of the weeds is explicitly said to refer to people, the sons of the kingdom (not the word) and the sons of the evil one in the explanation of the parable, verses Matt 13:36-39...
They were part of the same context of parables. One is not completely without the other. You do realize that "verse" and "paragraphs" distincts were added to the Scriptures with the Geneva Bible????
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
It says sin entered with Adam and with his sin the death promised for all sin. It does not say Adam's SIN passed upon all men but the death he brought into the world passed onto all men - all who were already sinners but who had to come under one death in Adam by being sown into mankind so Christ would not have to die for each elect sinner over and over, one at a time.
It also suggests that sin entered the world with Adam but we know that is false because the serpent entered the garden fully leavened in sin and planning to subvert Eve. Also that Eve sinned and then tempted Adam to sin. This makes Adam the 3d to sin in the garden unless...
unless he was a sinner before the garden and brought that sin with him when he was sown into the garden, into this world by the breath of GOD.
Yes, that is the way I think of it too...
When we speak of "world" in this context.... it is a reference to all of humanity. Animals were subjected to sin though they never sinned themselves.
As far as sin preexisting Adam, this is definitely true and I agree.
Yes, of course but you seem to be translating isawabundanceonthe table as I SAW A BUN DANCE UPON THE TABLE rather than "I SAW ABUNDANCE UPON THE TABLE."They were part of the same context of parables. One is not completely without the other. You do realize that "verse" and "paragraphs" distincts were added to the Scriptures with the Geneva Bible????
That is, they are obviously two different parables in which our Lord uses two different metaphors but because it messes with your bun dancing predilection, you read it that way, sigh. Just because there is a juxtaposition of parables in the way these parables are recorded cannot be used to force the meaning that they have the same explanation when in fact the explanations our Lord gave and had written down about the meaning of seeds are so very, very different: seeds are the message of the kingdom, Matt 13:19, vrs people, ie the sons of, Matt 13:36-39.
Eisegesis sure can be fun!!!
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Animals were subjected to sin though they never sinned themselves.
Satan was described as `rm, cunning in evil (while `rm was translated as naked for Adam and Eve), but his evil was also described as more than the other animals, implying that they were sinful but not to his measure, sinful lite I suppose. Also when he was cursed for his sin, he was cursed above the other animals as sinful but not to his extent. Were they sinful or not?
Don't forget that when GOD destroyed the world for 'the wickedness of man' that HE included the wickedness of the animals in that curse: Gen 6: 7 So the LORD said, “I will blot out man, whom I have created, from the face of the earth—every man and beast and crawling creature and bird of the air—for I am grieved that I have made them.”
Does this impact your assertions of post #96 that the world only refers to humanity because animals cannot be sinful? And if it doesn't - so what?
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
Yes, of course but you seem to be translating isawabundanceonthe table as I SAW A BUN DANCE UPON THE TABLE rather than "I SAW ABUNDANCE UPON THE TABLE."
That is, they are obviously two different parables in which our Lord uses two different metaphors but because it messes with your bun dancing predilection, you read it that way, sigh. Just because there is a juxtaposition of parables in the way these parables are recorded cannot be used to force the meaning that they have the same explanation when in fact the explanations our Lord gave and had written down about the meaning of seeds are so very, very different: seeds are the message of the kingdom, Matt 13:19, vrs people, ie the sons of, Matt 13:36-39.
Eisegesis sure can be fun!!!
Parables are relative. You're making them relative yourself. If they are relative to interpretation of Scriptures then they are relative to one another.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
Satan was described as `rm, cunning in evil (while `rm was translated as naked for Adam and Eve), but his evil was also described as more than the other animals, implying that they were sinful but not to his measure, sinful lite I suppose. Also when he was cursed for his sin, he was cursed above the other animals as sinful but not to his extent. Were they sinful or not?
Don't forget that when GOD destroyed the world for 'the wickedness of man' that HE included the wickedness of the animals in that curse: Gen 6: 7 So the LORD said, “I will blot out man, whom I have created, from the face of the earth—every man and beast and crawling creature and bird of the air—for I am grieved that I have made them.”
Does this impact your assertions of post #96 that the world only refers to humanity because animals cannot be sinful? And if it doesn't - so what?
How do animals do evil?
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