Would you sin..... to...

That is an interesting view brother. Do you have any indication that’s why adam sinned was to protect or save her ? His sin condemned both of them instead of only one of them.

1Ti 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

Here Paul appeals to the actual transgression. Eve was innocent. She was deceived. Adam's action was willful.

Adam loved Eve with everything he was. Notice his words found in Genesis 2:23. They were already "One"

Gen 2:21 And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;
Gen 2:22 And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.
Gen 2:23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.

Notice the rib taken from the side of Adam. I have long meditated on this action by God and I believe it is why Christ was pierced in His side on the cross. From the piercing of Christ came forth His Bride.

The Unity of Adam and Eve was pure and complete. Which is one of the reason I believe that Christ is referenced as the "Second Adam".

Gen 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
 
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I actually have heard that preached before many many moons ago. That Adam wasn't deceived but choose to follow Eve and take the consequences of disobeying God out of his love for her.

But then when he was confronted by God he wouldn't own up to his own action. His reply was “The woman you put here with me—she gave me some fruit from the tree, and I ate it.” Genesis 3:12

That's why it's never a good idea to go by your feelings and emotions. Adam learned by what's called "The hard way." Must have been a terrible load to bear especially after the story of Cain and Abel.

I believe that Adam was making a valid argument to God. The extant Hebrew misses part of the narrative. The Greek edition of Genesis says....

Gen 3:12 And Adam said, The woman whom you gave to be with me, she gave to me from the tree, and I ate.

I personally believe that Adam was basically saying

"What did you expect me to do".......
 
1Ti 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

Here Paul appeals to the actual transgression. Eve was innocent. She was deceived. Adam's action was willful.

Adam loved Eve with everything he was. Notice his words found in Genesis 2:23. They were already "One"

Gen 2:21 And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;
Gen 2:22 And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.
Gen 2:23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.

Notice the rib taken from the side of Adam. I have long meditated on this action by God and I believe it is why Christ was pierced in His side on the cross. From the piercing of Christ came forth His Bride.

The Unity of Adam and Eve was pure and complete. Which is one of the reason I believe that Christ is referenced as the "Second Adam".

Gen 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
Interesting insight I will have to consider this brother.
 
Dio you believe that Adam made Eve into an idol?

That is a good question. Maybe. If he did, I believe it was because he loved her to the degree he did.

Even when Paul dealt with those who had "made themselves" eunuchs for God........ He witnesses the fact that not all men were called in the same measure.

1Co 7:17 But as God hath distributed to every man, as the Lord hath called every one, so let him walk. And so ordain I in all churches.

The previous verse may speak to Adam and Eve a little....

1Co 7:16 For what knowest thou, O wife, whether thou shalt save thy husband? or how knowest thou, O man, whether thou shalt save thy wife?
 
That is a good question. Maybe. If he did, I believe it was because he loved her to the degree he did.

Even when Paul dealt with those who had "made themselves" eunuchs for God........ He witnesses the fact that not all men were called in the same measure.

1Co 7:17 But as God hath distributed to every man, as the Lord hath called every one, so let him walk. And so ordain I in all churches.

The previous verse may speak to Adam and Eve a little....

1Co 7:16 For what knowest thou, O wife, whether thou shalt save thy husband? or how knowest thou, O man, whether thou shalt save thy wife?
Interesting how you have tied some passages back to adam situation with eve that I have never considered. Good food for thought.
 
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I believe that Adam was making a valid argument to God. The extant Hebrew misses part of the narrative. The Greek edition of Genesis says....

Gen 3:12 And Adam said, The woman whom you gave to be with me, she gave to me from the tree, and I ate.

I personally believe that Adam was basically saying

"What did you expect me to do".......
I see your point, It's called caught between a rock and a hard place.
 
Satan can not give life to human kind. When you say Satan "sows".... then you're making Satan the creator of these individuals.
I do not say 'Satan sows' GOD does: Matt 13:38 The weeds are the sons/people of the evil one, 39 and the enemy who sows them is the devil. You believe we are created here on earth (which I deny!) so to sow must mean to create and the devil is said to sow also...it is you who makes Satan the creator, not me!

I contend that before the creation of the physical universe, YHWH created everyone in HIS own image, ie, able to be a proper bride for HIM with a free will and an equal ability and opportunity to put their faith in HIS claims without proof to accept HIM as their GOD and saviour and so to come under HIS promise of election,
OR
to choose to put their faith without proof in HIS claims to be lies therefore proving HE was a false god, choosing to go to his imaginary hell over ever serving HIM as their LORD.
After the creation of the physical earth and after Sheol was placed in the earth, all sinners were flung into Sheol, Revelation 12:4-9.

To sow cannot mean to create as the devil cannot create but he does sow the people of the evil one into mankind...therefore to sow must be being used in its ordinary meaning of 'to move from a place of storage and to be scattered into a place of growth!' That's what the words say so if a theology stumbles over that, it might be a time for a re-evaluation.

May I suggest that since the evil dead RETURN to Sheol, Ps 9:17, implying it is the place for the waiting sinful spirits, that the sinful but elect people of the kingdom are sown from another room in Sheol into mankind to be redeemed and when they die they are returned to the Lord, not Sheol, as holy and perfected.
 
There is no such evidence for their pre-existence before the foundation of the world.
You say so so I must accept??? Riiiiight.....<facepalm>

Are you a Mormon?
When we talked to a tribunal Mormon elders ç1975, we and our PCE, were rejected by their curse on us for following a Satanic spirit because our Christology and our understanding of our pre-conception existence was too orthodox for them, so I guess not. Does that help?

Eve was deceived. Which is a sign of innocence and immaturity.
So why did GOD allow her to be tempted? Without agreeing with your statement, I think that a free will decision can only be made when all the results, the consequences of the choice, are recognized and considered or it is a guess based upon nothing, not what we really hope for at all. It takes a maturity of intellect to make a true free will choice.

IF Eve was a newly created innocent, a tabula rasa knowing nothing at all, then why did YHWH not discuss with her the dangers the serpent presented? Why did HE even allow the serpent access to her? HIS acceptance of the serpent in the garden could be construed as a very unloving thing to do with HIS newly created, innocent, elect member of HIS Church, a person chosen as HIS Bride ! since HE obviously knew she would obviously be deceived and defiled by the serpent's evil intent???

So I ask, "Why would GOD treat Eve so?" Why permit her to go through this experience with the serpent and be deceived and defiled?

This reminds me of 1 Timothy 1:9 We also know that the law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful...etc, etc. Why were Adam and Eve given a command if they were righteous in their innocence when the law is only given to sinners to convict them of sin? Romans 3:20 Therefore no one will be justified in His sight by works of the Law. For the Law merely brings awareness of / convicts of sin. ?? Awareness is 1922 epígnōsis "knowledge gained through first-hand relationship".
When this verse is applied to Adam and Eve It would seem to say that they were already sinful even though they had not yet eaten and the command was given to bring them to the awareness, the knowledge gained through first-hand experience, that they were sinners. The reference to their not being ashamed is weird if they have nothing to be ashamed of, ie, if they were just created in innocence BUT if they were indeed sinful but thought that they were righteous ( as most sinners think) then having their eyes opened to their sinfulness by breaking the command not to eat, they realized their sinfulness and became ashamed.

While naked is a metaphor used in the Bible for sinfulness, it is notable that the word chosen to refer to their nakedness is the same word used to describe the evil of the serpent's cunning, ie, they are homonyms, the same word with two meanings. The vowel marks that differentiate the word naked from the word cunning in evil were added by the Masoretes ç600AD. Thus the verse Genesis 2:25 Adam and his wife were both naked, and they felt no shame. could be as easily read: Genesis 2:25 Adam and his wife were both cunning in an evil way, but they felt no shame.

So, if we limit ourselves to just these hints (ignoring the 4 or 5 others) that Adam and Evil were already sinful in the garden before eating, we can see an obvious reason for GOD allowing the evil serpent access to HIS not so innocent daughter ie, to open her eyes to her sinfulness so she could become ashamed, repent and come to Christ. Neither is it too far a leap to suggest that IF her sin before eating had to do with her willingness to accept the serpent as a mentor or even a pastor then to follow his logic into disobedience, opening her eyes to his total lack of caring for her and that to him she was only a pawn in his game against GOD opened her eyes the depths of his evil.

After letting him trick her out of Paradise with the truth that as an elect she would not die, ie, would never suffer hell, you can bet that she never gave him another opportunity to defile her again and was quite willing to see him damned and condemned out of her life. This is the story of all the elect, the lesson we are to learn writ large in the first story of the Bible; the serpent is a liar, we are sinners and we will never return to Paradise until the demons are all banished to the outer darkness.
 
I believe that Adam was making a valid argument to God. The extant Hebrew misses part of the narrative. The Greek edition of Genesis says....

Gen 3:12 And Adam said, The woman whom you gave to be with me, she gave to me from the tree, and I ate.

I personally believe that Adam was basically saying

"What did you expect me to do".......
Don't forget...whether Adam was a sinner before he got to the garden or not, by the time he said these words he was a sinner and enslaved to the perfidy of evil, trying to mitigate his free will decision to side with her, that is, to idolize her above his friend and GOD. Iow, he might have been lying about this or any other thing to lessen his guilt. Building a theology upon the words of a scared, so far unrepentant and unredeemed sinner before his judge is fraught, eh??
 
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1Ti 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

Adam knew exactly what he was doing and what it meant to choose Eve.
More edit. Adam didn't "Choose Eve", HE CHOSE TO BE LIKE GOD, as satan promised.

Turned out to be a BAD career choice -
 
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Eve fell into sin because of a deception; however, Adam was not deceived, which means he chose to sin. When Adam took the fruit from his wife, he knew full well what he was doing. He was not misinformed or misled; he simply decided to rebel against God’s command. He chose to listen to his wife instead of to God (Genesis 3:17).


 
More edit. Adam didn't "Choose Eve", HE CHOSE TO BE LIKE GOD, as satan promised.

Turned out to be a BAD career choice -

Adam didn't need Eve to lead in such a choice. Adam could have done it himself and brought Eve along with him. You're the one actually editing the narrative.

Adam did what he did in response to what Eve did.
 
Don't forget...whether Adam was a sinner before he got to the garden or not, by the time he said these words he was a sinner and enslaved to the perfidy of evil, trying to mitigate his free will decision to side with her, that is, to idolize her above his friend and GOD. Iow, he might have been lying about this or any other thing to lessen his guilt. Building a theology upon the words of a scared, so far unrepentant and unredeemed sinner before his judge is fraught, eh??

Like all the apostles and all the prophets? You forget the extension of your theology. They are no different than Adam.
 
I'm sorry, I have no idea what your mean or are trying to get at...sigh. NO elect sinner on earth is different from Adam...

You said "Building a theology upon the words of a scared, so far unrepentant and unredeemed sinner before his judge is fraught, eh??"

That is why I responded the way I did.

You're right. The apostles and prophets were sinners. At times, unrepentant. Adam wasn't "unredeemed". He was targeted for death. Recokened dead. Adam never died. He was redeemed.

I actually believe what Jesus said. Apparently you don't.

Joh 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

You, Calvinism and Arminianism all "death" all wrong.

As long as there is breath (the breath that came the very lips of God) within a man, he is not judged dead in accordance to the judgement given to Adam.
 
Adam never died. He was redeemed.
...
Joh 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
Never die means to me at this time that he will never experience the eternal death of hell. If you are claiming he never physically died, then I have trouble with your interpretation of Gen 5:5 So Adam lived a total of 930 years, and then he died....
Berean Standard Bible
 
I have limited time for a while.... Also, I'm not looking for "Shotgun" theology.....
Gee, I'm sorry that GOD's method of telling us about our creation, our fall by our free will, not Adam, and our coming to earth for our redemption is not all collected in one place for you, but it is a hidden* theology, eh?, not readily available?

You know what I mean by hidden* because this is the way some of our favourite doctrines were not taught but were hidden for centuries:
- the Deity of the Messiah,
- the teaching that the OT was NOT the end of all scripture, (as per Deuteronomy 4:2
Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish [ought] from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you),

- that God would incarnate as a man,
- that the Messiah would be an intermediary for prayer,
- nor any hint of Adamic sin before the NT.
without even getting into the words for doctrine that we use that are not in scripture: Trinity, omniscience, omnipotence, omnipresence, incarnation, rapture...

So, scriptural doctrine without having a precise scriptural reference is a time honoured procedure, and depends upon rightly dividing the word of truth aka the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.
 
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