"Works Salvation"

[Burdock]

Our salvation is not a combination of our faith in Christ plus our good works. Salvation and justification come through God’s grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone.

Exactly! If one does not have the gospel, if one still holds to some kind of works-righteousness, then one is lost no matter how profusely one might confess the name of Christ.

Does God then give you the Spirit and work miracles among you by your doing the works of the law or by your believing what you heard? Is God’s work limited by man’s actions? Is the Spirit of God dependent upon acts of human righteousness? Paul tells us in Ephesians 2:10 that He is not, while all those who say that man must do this or that to gain justification are, by so teaching, limiting the work of God to the actions of men.

 

[Persevering]

We are justified by grace alone through faith alone apart from works. (Ephesians 2:8–9; Romans 3:28)

In the first 11 chapters Romans Paul has explained the gospel: that we are justified in God’s sight by grace alone through faith alone because of Christ alone.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Exactly! If one does not have the gospel, if one still holds to some kind of works-righteousness, then one is lost no matter how profusely one might confess the name of Christ.

Does God then give you the Spirit and work miracles among you by your doing the works of the law or by your believing what you heard? Is God’s work limited by man’s actions? Is the Spirit of God dependent upon acts of human righteousness? Paul tells us in Ephesians 2:10 that He is not, while all those who say that man must do this or that to gain justification are, by so teaching, limiting the work of God to the actions of men.

This subject is complicated. Let me explain why I say this....

The false prophets could repeat some of the miracles of Moses. However, they could not repeat some of them. Too much power. Too much impact. Too large. Too extensive. Too meaningful for evil to repeat.

However, none of this changed Pharoah. It is the simplicity of faith that escapes the masses. Faith is more than just believing. It is a commitment to know God even when you currently know so little about Him. It is a commit to change regardless of whether you can change or not. It is accepting God for WHO HE IS..... even when you don't even know Him.

In fact, knowing that you don't know God, is where I believe it often begins.....

Proof of Salvation? God knows US....

Often, we don't even know ourselves. That is what this life is all about. A trial of what we call "our faith".

I believe Salvation is instantaneous but it often takes a long time to get to the point where "God wins" in the very fabric of our being. That is where faith meets realty.

 

[praise_yeshua]

We are justified by grace alone through faith alone apart from works. (Ephesians 2:8–9; Romans 3:28)

In the first 11 chapters Romans Paul has explained the gospel: that we are justified in God’s sight by grace alone through faith alone because of Christ alone.

How is "persevering" going for you....

It works until it doesn't.....

 

[Persevering]

How is "persevering" going for you....

It works until it doesn't.....

Those who believe that perseverance is required to enter the kingdom are in bondage to a way of thinking that makes assurance impossible prior to death. And not knowing where you are going until after you die is a bad thing, for at that point there won’t be anything you can do about it.

Perseverance is commanded. And rewards are promised to those believers who persevere. The fact that eternal life is guaranteed, whether we persevere or not, in no way lessens the rewards or cheapens the grace of God. We don’t buy our way into the kingdom by perseverance in good works. That is a gift of God’s unmerited favor.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Those who believe that perseverance is required to enter the kingdom are in bondage to a way of thinking that makes assurance impossible prior to death. And not knowing where you are going until after you die is a bad thing, for at that point there won’t be anything you can do about it.

Perseverance is commanded. And rewards are promised to those believers who persevere. The fact that eternal life is guaranteed, whether we persevere or not, in no way lessens the rewards or cheapens the grace of God. We don’t buy our way into the kingdom by perseverance in good works. That is a gift of God’s unmerited favor.

I mostly agree though I might would state it slightly different. This is one of the reasons that I reject Arminianism as well as Calvinism.

I believe there is very little doubt when someone actually extols the value of Jesus Christ to them personally. It shows that the person has a meaningful relationship to God to the point of sharing their personal experiences. I believe this is why John said....

1Jn 4:14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.
1Jn 4:15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.
1Jn 4:16 And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.

God knows that I sin more than most anyone would accept as being indicative of redemption. (though sins to me as I age are more about attitudes and conditions. Not that still don't make big mistakes. I do.)

I'm glad that no man is Judge of another. I don't call "balls and strikes" relative to a relationship with God. I'm not the One that needs to be pleased.

1Co 4:3 But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self.
1Co 4:4 For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord.
1Co 4:5 Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.

One day, God will speak and all men will stand silent as He declares His judgements.

I do believe that some Arminians approach Salvation with a plan to "win God with their works". They believe repentance in prayer goes like this....

"God, if you forgive me, I will never do that again. God empower me to keep your commandments" (that is my version of some Arminian style prayers that might take place.....)

I have concerns with this view of repentance.

I do believe Paul got it exactly right when dealing with sin in the life of the Redeemed.

2Ti 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
2Ti 2:20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.
2Ti 2:21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

It is interesting to witness the fact that Paul follows the command to "depart from iniquity" with words I believe define realties in this life.

2Ti 2:20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour

Purge we must..... but the reality is.... this is a battle we never complete until we are made complete in the Resurrection.

 

[Azriel]

Most religions throughout history have taught that salvation is by good works. But the truth of the matter is salvation by grace through faith is at the heart of the Christian religion.

“For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast” Ephesians 2:8–9

The statement has three parts— salvation, grace, and faith—and they are equally important. The three together constitute a basic tenet of Christianity.

So how and why do so many people get this wrong?

Because salvation by works appeals to man’s sinful nature, it forms the basis of almost every religion except for biblical Christianity. Proverbs 14:12 tells us that “there is a way that seems right to a man, but its end is the way of death.”

Salvation by works seems right to men, which is why it is the predominantly held viewpoint. That is exactly why biblical Christianity is so different from all other religions—it is the only religion that teaches salvation is a gift of God and not of works. Got?

 

[Burdock]

Most religions throughout history have taught that salvation is by good works. But the truth of the matter is salvation by grace through faith is at the heart of the Christian religion.

“For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast” Ephesians 2:8–9

The statement has three parts— salvation, grace, and faith—and they are equally important. The three together constitute a basic tenet of Christianity.

So how and why do so many people get this wrong?

Because salvation by works appeals to man’s sinful nature, it forms the basis of almost every religion except for biblical Christianity. Proverbs 14:12 tells us that “there is a way that seems right to a man, but its end is the way of death.”

Salvation by works seems right to men, which is why it is the predominantly held viewpoint. That is exactly why biblical Christianity is so different from all other religions—it is the only religion that teaches salvation is a gift of God and not of works. Got?

Nice Video.

 

[Persevering]

The Spirit of God changes us. The blood of Christ changes us. We are being set apart or made holy by and for God. We are being sanctified.
It is the continuous operation of the Holy Spirit in believers, making us holy by conforming our character, affections, and behavior to the image of Christ.

Justification is a one-time event; sanctification is an ongoing process. Justification frees us from the guilt of sin, sanctification from the pollution of sin. One is a necessary part of God’s saving work as the other.

Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness.

Paul’s point was that God’s righteousness is reckoned to people who believe, not to people who try to earn divine favor by religious ritual or self-righteous works. He was not suggesting, as many do today, that a believer who has been declared righteous might fail to produce good works. In no way does this verse erect a barrier—or even suggest a separation—between justification and sanctification.

 

[Doug Brents]

We are justified by grace alone through faith alone apart from works. (Ephesians 2:8–9; Romans 3:28)

In the first 11 chapters Romans Paul has explained the gospel: that we are justified in God’s sight by grace alone through faith alone because of Christ alone.

"You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected" James 2:22
"You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone." James 2:24
We are not justified by faith alone, but by faith that produces obedience.

Rom 6:1-4 says that we are baptized into His death, and because we die with Him through baptism we receive resurrection as He did.

 

[Frank Russell]

"Works salvation" is a term that gets thown around a lot on forums as this one.

1) What is "works salvation"? How does one define "works salvation" according to the Bible?

2) What is an example from the Bible of "works salvation"?

3) Was Noah's work in building the ark "to the saving of his house" (Heb 11:7) a "works salvation"?

Why is salvation by works the predominantly held viewpoint? | GotQuestions.org

Why is salvation by works the predominantly held viewpoint? Why do so many people believe that we can be saved by works?

www.gotquestions.org

Is the above link correct in saying that "works salvation" is man trying to control his own eternal destiny? Is it true that man has no control, no role at all in his own eternal destiny? Did Noah have no control, no role at all in the saving of his house?

It's a way of saying "do it yourself" salvation, instead of trusting God for it.

 

[dwight92070]

We all know what is the crux of the argument here:

Can a man be saved without being baptized in water? Doug Brents (and possibly others) say "No". I (and possibly others) say "Yes".

Doug has emphasized the necessity to be baptized in order to be saved. However, one of his latest post adds another requirement, at least in his mind: Confessing with your mouth that Jesus is Lord - Romans 10:9-10 So now, besides repenting and believing, a man must confess verbally that Jesus is Lord AND be baptized in water in order to be saved. Actually I mentioned ANOTHER requirement, and gave three verses to confirm that:
"whoever calls on the name of the Lord will be saved." So now we have: Repent, believe, be baptized in water, confess verbally that Jesus is Lord, and call on the name of the Lord. Are there any more?

Well, the Lord told Zaccheus and the gathering crowd; "Today salvation has come to this house, because he, too, is a son of Abraham." But what did Zaccheus do to get saved? He simply said, "Behold Lord, half of my possessions I will give to the poor, and if I have defrauded anyone of anything, I will give back four times as much." Luke 19:8

So now we have: Repent, believe, be baptized in water, confess verbally that Jesus is Lord, call on the name of the Lord, give half of your possessions to the poor, and promise to pay back four times times any amount that you have cheated anyone.

Paul told Timothy "that from childhood you have known the sacred writings (the Old Testament) which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus."

Now we have: Repent, believe, be baptized in water, confess verbally that Jesus is Lord, call on the name of the Lord, give half of your possessions to the poor, pay back anyone four times the amount that you cheated them, and know and study the Old Testament.

Jesus said, " ... the who endures to the end ... will be saved." So, on this one, we can't really know if we're saved, until the end - to see whether we endured or not.

So now we have ... (you get the idea). As we search the scripture we see more and more requirements or should we say ways, to be saved.

What about the thief on the cross? Was he baptized in water? Well, obviously God will made an exception in his situation because it was impossible for him to be baptized. What about confessing verbally that Jesus is your Lord? Did the thief do that? Luke 23:42 No. He said, "Jesus, remember me when you come in Your kingdom." Did Jesus say, "Sorry, you did not confess verbally that I am your Lord."? No.

The point is that as we look at scripture, we can come up with many examples of people who did things or said things that appear to have brought salvation to them, but really what is the common denominator?

Humility (which is repentance) " ... unless you are converted and become like children, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven." Mat 18:3

" ... the tax collector ... was even unwilling to lift up his eyes to heaven, but was beating his breast, saying, 'God, be merciful to me, the sinner!' I tell you, this man went to his house justified ... Luke 18:13-14

(But Jesus, he can't be justified - unless he is baptized in water and confesses Me as Lord.)


Repentance and Faith - "Do you see this woman? I entered your house; you gave Me no water for my feet, but she has wet my feet with her tears and wiped them with her hair. You gave Me no kiss; but she, since the time I came in, has not ceased to kiss My feet. You did not anoint My head with oil, but she anointed My feet with perfume. ... Then He said to her, 'Your sins have been forgiven. ...Your faith has saved you; go in peace.' " Luke 7:44

(Oh wait, Jesus, You forgot to tell her that she needed to be baptized in water and she also needs to confess verbally that You are Lord.)

Repentance and faith, the ONLY requirements for salvation. None of the other things are requirements for salvation. They are ALL good things and should be done, some are even commandments, but NOT for salvation.

 

[Frank Russell]

People don't want to feel like they owe God anything, so devise a theology so they can pay the debt back.

However, each good work is done with selfish motives in that case, so you just end up digging a bigger hole.

 

[dwight92070]

"You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected" James 2:22
"You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone." James 2:24
We are not justified by faith alone, but by faith that produces obedience.

Rom 6:1-4 says that we are baptized into His death, and because we die with Him through baptism we receive resurrection as He did.

No, it does NOT say that "we die with Him through baptism" - it says that "we were BURIED with Him through baptism into death". You DON'T get baptized to "die with Him", the old man already died when you got saved- then AFTER that death, you need BURIAL through baptism.

James 2:24 He's saying that a person is justified by faith that produces works. If it's that kind of faith, then faith alone saves, because works are produced from that genuine faith. But this also says that you can't be justified by works alone, that genuine faith must precede those works. The kind of faith that saves produces works after you're saved.
It is not saying that works complete the justification process (that would contradict Romans 4:5), rather that true faith that justifies produces works afterwards.

 

[Seabass]

It's a way of saying "do it yourself" salvation, instead of trusting God for it.

Save yourself Acts 2:40
cleanse ourselves 2 Cor 7:1
cleanse your hands ye sinners James 4:8

The Bible shows man has a role in his own salvation yet man cannot save himself by himself but man saves himself in the sense of obeying what God says to do. Hence one is trusting in God when he obeys God's will.

Some people refuse to make the simple distinction between obedience to God's will and works of merit.

 

[Clifford]

Save yourself Acts 2:40
cleanse ourselves 2 Cor 7:1
cleanse your hands ye sinners James 4:8

The Bible shows man has a role in his own salvation yet man cannot save himself by himself but man saves himself in the sense of obeying what God says to do. Hence one is trusting in God when he obeys God's will.

Some people refuse to make the simple distinction between obedience to God's will and works of merit.

I agree, faith is a form of obedience.

1 John 3:23,24 - God commands us to believe in Jesus; we must keep His commands to abide in Him. If we recognize the importance of faith, we must recognize the importance of obedience, since faith itself is a command from God that we must obey.

John 6:28,29 - People asked what they must do to work the works of God . Jesus said the work for them to do is to believe. Acts 16:30

Faith is essential to salvation. But faith is a command - a work - something required in obedience to God. Therefore, obedience is essential to salvation, for here is another act of obedience that is required for salvation. So works of obedience are necessary.

 

[Frank Russell]

Save yourself Acts 2:40
cleanse ourselves 2 Cor 7:1
cleanse your hands ye sinners James 4:8

The Bible shows man has a role in his own salvation yet man cannot save himself by himself but man saves himself in the sense of obeying what God says to do. Hence one is trusting in God when he obeys God's will.

Some people refuse to make the simple distinction between obedience to God's will and works of merit.

When a human is saying it, it sounds like they just want you to obey them instead of God.

 

[Doug Brents]

We all know what is the crux of the argument here:

Can a man be saved without being baptized in water? Doug Brents (and possibly others) say "No". I (and possibly others) say "Yes".

Doug has emphasized the necessity to be baptized in order to be saved. However, one of his latest post adds another requirement, at least in his mind: Confessing with your mouth that Jesus is Lord - Romans 10:9-10 So now, besides repenting and believing, a man must confess verbally that Jesus is Lord AND be baptized in water in order to be saved. Actually I mentioned ANOTHER requirement, and gave three verses to confirm that:
"whoever calls on the name of the Lord will be saved." So now we have: Repent, believe, be baptized in water, confess verbally that Jesus is Lord, and call on the name of the Lord. Are there any more?

No, there are no more. Those are the things that Scripture says "lead to" our receiving salvation. Please remember, Dwight, that ALL Scripture is equal: equally true, equally correct, and equally applicable. What that means is that when there are multiple things that Scripture says lead to something else, all of those things must be true. It is not correct to say that you can take one or the other of them and them all still be true. In other words, when Rom 10:9-10 says believe and confess Jesus' name, and then Acts 2:38 says repent and be baptized, all four of those things must be correct, not just one or the other of them.

Well, the Lord told Zaccheus and the gathering crowd; "Today salvation has come to this house, because he, too, is a son of Abraham." But what did Zaccheus do to get saved? He simply said, "Behold Lord, half of my possessions I will give to the poor, and if I have defrauded anyone of anything, I will give back four times as much." Luke 19:8

So now we have: Repent, believe, be baptized in water, confess verbally that Jesus is Lord, call on the name of the Lord, give half of your possessions to the poor, and promise to pay back four times times any amount that you have cheated anyone.

That event came long before the Lord's death, and so has no bearing on NT salvation. Jesus had the authority and power to give salvation, forgiveness, and any other blessing from God to anyone He chose right up until His death (Luke 5:24). It also does not contain a command from the Lord, but was Zaccheus' personal choice to make amends for the wrongs he had done.

Paul told Timothy "that from childhood you have known the sacred writings (the Old Testament) which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus."

Now we have: Repent, believe, be baptized in water, confess verbally that Jesus is Lord, call on the name of the Lord, give half of your possessions to the poor, pay back anyone four times the amount that you cheated them, and know and study the Old Testament.

The study of the OT brings wisdom and strengthens faith through which we receive salvation. That is, again, not a command of something that is required before salvation is received.

Jesus said, " ... the who endures to the end ... will be saved." So, on this one, we can't really know if we're saved, until the end - to see whether we endured or not.

We can know that we are walking in the Light, and as such have confidence in the trustworthiness of the Lord to fulfill His promises to continually cleanse us from all sin (1 John 1:7). So we do not have to wait until the end to know that we are saved.

So now we have ... (you get the idea). As we search the scripture we see more and more requirements or should we say ways, to be saved.

No, there are only the four things from the beginning of your post that Scripture says are required to receive salvation: belief of the Gospel, repentance from sin, confession of Jesus as Lord, and baptism (in water).

What about the thief on the cross? Was he baptized in water? Well, obviously God will made an exception in his situation because it was impossible for him to be baptized. What about confessing verbally that Jesus is your Lord? Did the thief do that? Luke 23:42 No. He said, "Jesus, remember me when you come in Your kingdom." Did Jesus say, "Sorry, you did not confess verbally that I am your Lord."? No.

As mentioned before, before our Lord died, the thief on the cross was given the promise that he would be with the Lord in paradise. Before His death, Jesus could give salvation to anyone He chose. But after He died, His will (Last will and testament) was set and cannot be altered (Heb 9:16-17).

The point is that as we look at scripture, we can come up with many examples of people who did things or said things that appear to have brought salvation to them, but really what is the common denominator?

Humility (which is repentance) " ... unless you are converted and become like children, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven." Mat 18:3

" ... the tax collector ... was even unwilling to lift up his eyes to heaven, but was beating his breast, saying, 'God, be merciful to me, the sinner!' I tell you, this man went to his house justified ... Luke 18:13-14

(But Jesus, he can't be justified - unless he is baptized in water and confesses Me as Lord.)


Repentance and Faith - "Do you see this woman? I entered your house; you gave Me no water for my feet, but she has wet my feet with her tears and wiped them with her hair. You gave Me no kiss; but she, since the time I came in, has not ceased to kiss My feet. You did not anoint My head with oil, but she anointed My feet with perfume. ... Then He said to her, 'Your sins have been forgiven. ...Your faith has saved you; go in peace.' " Luke 7:44

(Oh wait, Jesus, You forgot to tell her that she needed to be baptized in water and she also needs to confess verbally that You are Lord.)

Repentance and faith, the ONLY requirements for salvation. None of the other things are requirements for salvation. They are ALL good things and should be done, some are even commandments, but NOT for salvation.

And here is where you change what Scripture says to fit your preconception.
What part of the original text of Acts 2:38 points to a differentiation between repentance and baptism? Why is repentance a requirement for salvation, but baptism is not in that verse? Acts 3:19 says that we are to repent in order to receive forgiveness. So in Acts 2:38, repentance is also in order to receive forgiveness. But baptism is also added here as a requirement equal with repentance. And in 1 Peter 3:21, repentance is not what is said to save us; baptism is.

 

[Doug Brents]

No, it does NOT say that "we die with Him through baptism" - it says that "we were BURIED with Him through baptism into death". You DON'T get baptized to "die with Him", the old man already died when you got saved- then AFTER that death, you need BURIAL through baptism.

That is not what it says.
We are buried INTO death. The old man goes into the water, and the new man arises out of the water. It is in the water where the change happens. We are not saved by our belief before we go into the water. An example of this is in Naaman being cleansed of leprosy. He was not cleansed when he believed; he was not cleansed when he entered the water; he was not cleansed when he had dipped six times. No, he was cleansed when he had obeyed the command and dipped the seventh time.

James 2:24 He's saying that a person is justified by faith that produces works. If it's that kind of faith, then faith alone saves, because works are produced from that genuine faith. But this also says that you can't be justified by works alone, that genuine faith must precede those works. The kind of faith that saves produces works after you're saved.
It is not saying that works complete the justification process (that would contradict Romans 4:5), rather that true faith that justifies produces works afterwards.

A true, living, effective faith (one that produces works of obedience) must precede the reception of salvation. The actions do not all come after salvation is received. The four actions that Scripture says lead to salvation must come before salvation is received, otherwise they would not lead to but would then follow after salvation.

 

[Seabass]

When a human is saying it, it sounds like they just want you to obey them instead of God.

I don't understand. When a human is saying what?