"Works Salvation"

[Complete]

'If we say that we have no sin,
.. we deceive ourselves,
.... and the truth is not in us.
If we confess our sins,
.. He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins,
.... and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
If we say that we have not sinned,
.. we make Him a liar,
.... and His word is not in us.'
(1Jn 1:8-10)

 

[mikepec]

John 3:36 provides an answer.
The opposite of believe is disobey - the meaning of the greek word "apeithōn" so to have faith is to obey.
Jesus asks we DO many things.

So formed faith is more than intellectual assent.
Part of the lutheran church agreed an accord with the holy see on "faith alone" providing faith meant "formed faith" - but then the holy see roundly and rightly condemned the use of the phrase "faith alone" because is utterly misleading.

In many disputes between christian groups the dispute is over use of words.
As akin points out in "salvation controversy" we are a lot closer than we think in meaning if meaning of words is agreed. Which is also the problem with "sola scriptura". Which is what scripture means, not what it says! That is also why scripture is not sufficient.

The logical error used by many protestants, the difference between "necessary" and "sufficient", the distinction is often used in maths and logical problem solving.

Works are indeed "necessary", the bible says so, the only place where "faith" and "alone" are in the same sentence is to expressly deny faith alone in the epistle of James.

But since no amount of works can ever be "sufficient" to be saved so it is not "salvation by works"

We are saved by grace, through faith.
But for our part we must obey then hope for grace.

Nobody is an automaton. Just because they have faith they do not automatically get up and do the work of sheep and goats!
We are told of the eucharist in John that taking it is necessary to be "raised up at the last day"

We must strive every day to do what we are asked, and not do what we are told we must not. Many fall away.

Paul laments that "the evil he would not do he does" and the "good he would do he does not"

Salvation is used in several tenses a past "were saved" current "are saved" and future "will be saved" also of both temporal and eternal salvation.

It is not a one time, one liner as many evangelicals would have you believe!
"if you confess Jesus is Lord"

So Baptism is an entry to the process , not an endpoint. Until just judge decides we can only hope for grace and in the mean time do our best to obey.

But the main point is the "necessity" of obedience which clearly involves works is not sufficient to be saved, so it is not salvation by works.

 

[Seabass]

Noah moved with fear prepared an ark (necessary obedient work) to meet the condition to receive God's free gift of salvation from the flood
Naaman dipped 7 times in the Jordan river (ncessary obedient work) to meet the condition to receive God's free gift of healing of his disease
Israel marched and blew horns (necessary obedient work) to meet the condition on receiving God's free gift of the city of Jericho
Israel did the work of gathering (necessary obedient work) to meet the condition of receiving food/nutrition from God's free gift of manna
Jews did the work of repenting & submitting to water baptism (necessary obedient work) to meet condition to receive free gift of remission of sins
Jesus told the Jews to work for the food that endures(necessary obedient work) to meet condition to receive everlasting life, the free gift Christ gives
He that doeth the will of the Father (necessary obedient work) to meet the condition to enter the kingdom of heaven/salvation God's free gift
Jesus said to strive (necessary obedient work) to meet the condition to enter the strait gate, receive the free gift of salvation
Believe in the heart, confess with the mouth (necessary obedient work) to meet the condition to receive the free gift of salvation
He that believeth and is baptized (necessary obedient works) to meet the conditions to receive the free gift of salvation

 

[Complete]

Subject Heading:- 'Works Salvation'

... ... ... you refuse to deal with Rom 6:16.

​

What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? ​

God forbid.​

Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey,​

his servants ye are to whom ye obey; ​

whether of sin unto death, ​

or of obedience unto righteousness?​

(Rom 6:15-16)​

Hello @Seabass.

Looking at Romans 6:16 (highlighted above) in the light of the subject heading under consideration, which is, 'Works Salvation', we need to keep in mind the fact that those being addressed are believers in the Lord Jesus Christ, so they are already saved by grace. The question is regarding the liberty that they have been brought into, and whether that liberty is a licence to sin or not. Yes?

'But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, ​

but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.​

Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.​

I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: ​

for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; ​

even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.​

For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.​

What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? ​

for the end of those things is death.​

But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ​

ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.​

For the wages of sin is death; ​

but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.'​

(Rom 6:17-23)​

* These have already obeyed God in believing the gospel of God concerning His Son the Lord Jesus Christ
They are now to reckon themselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God, through Jesus Christ their Lord (Romans 6:11), this is a faith position, just as salvation by grace is a faith position. Thereby they can walk in newness of life before the Father. For God's righteousness has been imputed unto them, and they are by God's reckoning, 'holy and without blame' before Him, Not because of anything they have done or will do, but because of what Christ has done. For they have died with Him, and been raised to life with Him and now walk with Him in newness of life before the Father.

Sorry if I am not very clear, but this is a concept which is entirely of the spirit, in which the flesh counts for nothing.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Complete]

Noah moved with fear prepared an ark (necessary obedient work) to meet the condition to receive God's free gift of salvation from the flood
Naaman dipped 7 times in the Jordan river (ncessary obedient work) to meet the condition to receive God's free gift of healing of his disease
Israel marched and blew horns (necessary obedient work) to meet the condition on receiving God's free gift of the city of Jericho
Israel did the work of gathering (necessary obedient work) to meet the condition of receiving food/nutrition from God's free gift of manna
Jews did the work of repenting & submitting to water baptism (necessary obedient work) to meet condition to receive free gift of remission of sins
Jesus told the Jews to work for the food that endures(necessary obedient work) to meet condition to receive everlasting life, the free gift Christ gives
He that doeth the will of the Father (necessary obedient work) to meet the condition to enter the kingdom of heaven/salvation God's free gift
Jesus said to strive (necessary obedient work) to meet the condition to enter the strait gate, receive the free gift of salvation
Believe in the heart, confess with the mouth (necessary obedient work) to meet the condition to receive the free gift of salvation
He that believeth and is baptized (necessary obedient works) to meet the conditions to receive the free gift of salvation

'Then said they unto Him,
What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
Jesus answered and said unto them,
This is the work of God,
that ye believe on Him whom He hath sent.'
(Joh 6:28-29)

Hello again, @Seabass,

Believing from the heart is the only requirement. This is faith obedience:- Believing on Him Whom God has sent, - The Lord Jesus Christ.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Seabass]

Subject Heading:- 'Works Salvation'

​

What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? ​

God forbid.​

Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey,​

his servants ye are to whom ye obey; ​

whether of sin unto death, ​

or of obedience unto righteousness?​

(Rom 6:15-16)​

Hello @Seabass.

Looking at Romans 6:16 (highlighted above) in the light of the subject heading under consideration, which is, 'Works Salvation', we need to keep in mind the fact that those being addressed are believers in the Lord Jesus Christ, so they are already saved by grace. The question is regarding the liberty that they have been brought into, and whether that liberty is a licence to sin or not. Yes?

'But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, ​

but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.​

Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.​

I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: ​

for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; ​

even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.​

For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.​

What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? ​

for the end of those things is death.​

But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ​

ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.​

For the wages of sin is death; ​

but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.'​

(Rom 6:17-23)​

* These have already obeyed God in believing the gospel of God concerning His Son the Lord Jesus Christ
They are now to reckon themselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God, through Jesus Christ their Lord (Romans 6:11), this is a faith position, just as salvation by grace is a faith position. Thereby they can walk in newness of life before the Father. For God's righteousness has been imputed unto them, and they are by God's reckoning, 'holy and without blame' before Him, Not because of anything they have done or will do, but because of what Christ has done. For they have died and their life is now hid with Christ in God.

Sorry if I am not very clear, but this is a concept which is entirely of the spirit, in which the flesh counts for nothing.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

My point in introducing Rom 6:16 is that there are only one of 2 masters one can serve, only 2 eternal outcomes for man;
1) condemnation - serving sin unto death
2) salvation - serving obedience unto righteouness

Is the man made construct of faith onlyism have one serving sin unto death or serving obedience unto righteousness? These are the only 2 options there are for man.

Those Romans had already obeyed as you point out, Rom 6:17 they had obeyed from their heart that form of doctrine then they were freed from sin/justified. Hence they served obedience unto righteousness.

Again, my point is faith onlyism obeying from the heart as those Romans did in serving obedience unto righteousness or is faith onlyism serving sin unto death??

Could those Romans have been 'freed from sin" (justified) apart from having obeyed from the heart??

Were those Romans justified by faith only, that is, justified by a faith that is void of obedience??
Faith only is just that, faith that excludes everything such as obedience.

 

[Complete]

My point in introducing Rom 6:16 is that there are only one of 2 masters one can serve, only 2 eternal outcomes for man;
1) condemnation - serving sin unto death
2) salvation - serving obedience unto righteouness

Is the man made construct of faith onlyism have one serving sin unto death or serving obedience unto righteousness? These are the only 2 options there are for man.

Those Romans had already obeyed as you point out, Rom 6:17 they had obeyed from their heart that form of doctrine then they were freed from sin/justified. Hence they served obedience unto righteousness.

Again, my point is faith onlyism obeying from the heart as those Romans did in serving obedience unto righteousness or is faith onlyism serving sin unto death??

Could those Romans have been 'freed from sin" (justified) apart from having obeyed from the heart??

Hello @Seabass,

Faith obedience is believing God concerning His Son the Lord Jesus Christ. The walk of the believer is one of faith obedience in the Spirit,, continuing to believe God as one who has died with Christ, been buried with Christ, quickened and raised with Christ, and ascended with Christ to God's right hand, which results in walking in newness of life before the Father - in Christ Jesus. This is faith: the faith of God in Christ, which has identified the believer with His Only Begotten Son. He is their life. The believer is one with the Father and the Son in the Spirit. God's workmanship, through the Son.

I do not recognise the term, 'faith Only-ism'.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Seabass]

Hello @Seabass,

Faith obedience is believing God concerning His Son the Lord Jesus Christ. The walk of the believer is one of faith obedience, which is continuing to believe God as one who has died with Christ, been buried with Christ, quickened and raised with Christ, and ascended with Christ to God's right hand, which results in walking in newness of life before the Father - in Christ Jesus.

I do not recognise the term, 'faith only-ism'.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

This context shows;
1 - that belief is a work, a work God has given man to do in order for man to receive everlasting life
2 - Jesus did not say believe only for NT belief includes repentance Lk 13:3, confession Mt 10:32-33, baptism Mk 16:16. Hence all the belief only in the world can never save the impenitent Rom 2:4-5; Lk 13:3


Faith and faith only are two completely different things.
Faith justifies Rom 5:1-2
Faith only does not justify, James 2

If they were both the same thing then both would justify or neither one would justify.

The difference is a NT saving faith INCLUDES obedience to God's will whereas faith only is void of obedience...faith and nothing else.

Could those Romans been freed from sin/justified apart from obedience, that is, justified by faith only??

 

[Complete]

This context shows;​

1 - that belief is a work, a work God has given man to do in order for man to receive everlasting life​

2 - Jesus did not say believe only for NT belief includes repentance Lk 13:3, confession Mt 10:32-33, baptism Mk 16:16. Hence all the belief only in the world can never save the impenitent Rom 2:4-5; Lk 13:3​

​

​

Faith and faith only are two completely different things.​

Faith justifies Rom 5:1-2​

Faith only does not justify, James 2​

​

If they were both the same thing then both would justify or neither one would justify.​

​

The difference is a NT saving faith INCLUDES obedience to God's will whereas faith only is void of obedience...faith and nothing else.​

​

Could those Romans been freed from sin/justified apart from obedience, that is, justified by faith only??​

'And many other signs truly did Jesus
in the presence of His disciples,
which are not written in this book:
But these are written, that ye might believe
that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God;
and that believing ye might have life through His name.'
(Joh 20:30-31)

 

[charismaticlady]

I just have to say, you have my curiosity peaked ... do you consider yourself as one of those people who have attained to a sinless state of being, that is, a person who is perfectly righteous/upright in their every thought and deed? I sincerely hope and pray that you don't suppose that Jesus is only coming back for those who fit into that category.

Perhaps I've assumed or wrongly comprehended what you are conveying here, and if I have, I apologize in advance. It's just that I've heard that there are people out there who actually believe that they fit into this category called "the perfect human." - lol.

There are two types of sin. Sins unto death, and sins NOT unto death. Both require abiding IN Jesus and He is us.

Jesus first takes away the sins unto death and any desire to commit them - lawlessness, major mortal sins. Most of them are in the Ten Commandments. 1 John 3:4-24, Galatians 5:19-21 have the others. This is about righteousness or sinlessness. This one was the easiest for me, and probably you too. The next one is harder and takes longer. I have to laugh at pastors preaching against "sinless perfection" as a new Christian is never perfect. It is also sad if they never received sinlessness from Jesus. Catholics at least are not that stupid. They have recognized the two different types of sin - mortal and venial. Jesus puts His Spirit in us to empower us, making lawlessness impossible to want to commit. 1 John 3:9. This is the first "faith." Easy peasy! "My yoke is easy and My burden is light. Jesus is the Author and Finisher of our faith.

Sins not unto death take longer, and are the second "faith." These have to do with the fruit of the Spirit that constantly need pruning. John 15:1-4. The maturity of all these is holiness or perfection. 2 Peter 1:5-7

Romans 1:16-17 " For I am not ashamed of the gospel [a]of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek. 17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, “The just shall live by faith.”

Revelation 22:11.

 

[Hosanna]

'Then said they unto Him,
What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
Jesus answered and said unto them,
This is the work of God,
that ye believe on Him whom He hath sent.'
(Joh 6:28-29)

Hello again, @Seabass,

Believing from the heart is the only requirement. This is faith obedience:- Believing on Him Whom God has sent, - The Lord Jesus Christ.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Exactly.

 

[Rapture Bound]

There are two types of sin. Sins unto death, and sins NOT unto death. Both require abiding IN Jesus and He is us.

Jesus first takes away the sins unto death and any desire to commit them - lawlessness, major mortal sins. Most of them are in the Ten Commandments. 1 John 3:4-24, Galatians 5:19-21 have the others. This is about righteousness or sinlessness. This one was the easiest for me, and probably you too. The next one is harder and takes longer. I have to laugh at pastors preaching against "sinless perfection" as a new Christian is never perfect. It is also sad if they never received sinlessness from Jesus. Catholics at least are not that stupid. They have recognized the two different types of sin - mortal and venial. Jesus puts His Spirit in us to empower us, making lawlessness impossible to want to commit. 1 John 3:9. This is the first "faith." Easy peasy! "My yoke is easy and My burden is light. Jesus is the Author and Finisher of our faith.

Sins not unto death take longer, and are the second "faith." These have to do with the fruit of the Spirit that constantly need pruning. John 15:1-4. The maturity of all these is holiness or perfection. 2 Peter 1:5-7

Romans 1:16-17 " For I am not ashamed of the gospel [a]of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek. 17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, “The just shall live by faith.”

Revelation 22:11.

o.k. - you certainly don't have to answer my question ... I was just curious, and thought I would give it a shot. Of course you are free to hide your position on the matter. It just seems to me that by hiding our true positions pertaining to key questions on a matter ... it kinda defeats the whole purpose and point of discussing or debating theological topics ... sigh.

 

[Seabass]

'And many other signs truly did Jesus
in the presence of His disciples,
which are not written in this book:
But these are written, that ye might believe
that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God;
and that believing ye might have life through His name.'
(Joh 20:30-31)

If one is going to study a Bible subject such as salvation, then one must study ALL the verses that deal with salvation to COMPELTELY AND CORRECTLY understand the subject. Simply cherry picking verses that mention "believing" while ignoring other salvific verses that teach repentance, confession and baptism will leave one in error and lack of understanding. The same Jesus that said to believe in Jn 3:16 also said to repent Lk 13:3; confess ; Mt 10:32-33 and be baptized Mk 16:16.

One cannot only read the first sentence of the first paragraph of a Hemingway novel then declare they know all about the plot, characters, events, etc. One must read ALL the novel to have a complete understanding of it. Likewise one cannot read one verse that deals with salvation then claim to know ALL their is to know about NT salvation.

Paul did not shun the declare ALL the counsel of God (Acts 20:27). Very rarely does just one verse exhaust all their is to know about a particular subject. A 'one verse' theology leaves one incomplete in understanding. "Cherry picking" verses while ignoring other verses also leaves one incomplete in understanding and shows one has an agenda to promote a personal bias rather than 'declare all the counsel of God' for a complete and correct understanding.

 

[Frank Russell]

Devastating enough you refuse to deal with Rom 6:16.

I see a person who is emulating the Elder son of the prodigal son parable.

Nothing could be more devastating to a spiritual walk than accepting advice from such a person.

 

[Seabass]

I see a person who is emulating the Elder son of the prodigal son parable.

Nothing could be more devastating to a spiritual walk than accepting advice from such a person.

It's painfully obvious and becoming comical in how you avoid dealing with Rom 6:16.

 

[Frank Russell]

It's painfully obvious and becoming comical in how you avoid dealing with Rom 6:16.

I've resolved to not look at that verse on purpose just because you're idolizing it.

 

[charismaticlady]

o.k. - you certainly don't have to answer my question ... I was just curious, and thought I would give it a shot. Of course you are free to hide your position on the matter. It just seems to me that by hiding our true positions pertaining to key questions on a matter ... it kinda defeats the whole purpose and point of discussing or debating theological topics ... sigh.

Sorry, I thought it was obvious that if we commit mortal sins like murder that we can't claim to be a born again Christian. So to clear away the cobwebs, YES I don't commit mortal sins unto death. It is THIS category of sins I am free of, making me or anyone else not only righteous, but sinless. That is MY definition based on scripture of sinlessness, and what I teach as a Teacher. I personally see that righteousness equates with freedom from sin as in Romans 6:5-7 and 22. But there are those uninformed in the Church that do not see my definition and bring up things like going through a stop sign as SIN with a capital "S". The problem with those pastors (like John MacArthur) is they commit the sin of mocking those who are sinless, and even get his congregation to laugh with him. If people are taught they will always sin, they will. Matthew 7:21-23.

I want to show you something to help you see where I am coming from. Look at John 15:1-4. This would have to do with going through a stop sign. LOL. It is about maturing in the fruit of the Spirit that would include self-control and stopping even if you don't see anyone coming. Notice the word "clean." That shows John is now speaking of the second type of sin.

“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He [a]takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. 3 You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. 4 Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me.

2 Peter 1:10-11 shows the result of maturing in the fruit of the spirit as verses 5-7 shows is the other type of sin. They don't mention any of the Ten Commandments. "Never stumbling" would mean to me perfection or holiness. Now read the whole of it in context. Verses 2-4 shows we are able to partake of the divine nature of God. Then Peter goes on to the maturity of the fruit. I believe it is the fruit we need to be mindful of the rest of our life to be holy. Hebrews 12:14 "without holiness no man shall see God."

 

[Studyman]

Faith is not works. Faith wrongly understood might be “works.” But that's not what the Bible means by faith, the Bible itself is the basis for this absolute distinction.

Faith is "shown" by works, according to what the Bible teaches. Jesus said I can tell about one's faith, by their works. James too.

Paul said of the mainstream religion of his time.

Titus 1: 16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

God said of the disobedient Israelites.

Duet. 32: 20 And he said, I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end shall be: for they are a very froward generation, children in whom is no faith.

Paul said of both Jew and Gentile;

Rom. 2: 7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

The Jesus "of the Bible" said "but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments"

Paul says;

Rom. 6: 16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

So the Biblical fact is, "EVERYONE" does "works". It seems the Work of Faith, is to deny ourself, our religions, our traditions we were born into, that "Transgress God's commandments", and become a NEW man, which after God is created in True Righteousness and Holiness. As it is also written.

"For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God (Not the Pope, or Gamaliel or another religious sect of this world) hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Salvation by faith is not salvation by works. You can deny salvation by faith by equating it with salvation by works but you would be way off page.

Faith without works is dead. At least this is what the Scriptures teach.

Scripture prevents that equation. The very places we learn that salvation is not by works are the places we learn that it is by faith.

I don't think you understand who Paul was addressing regarding "Salvation/Justification" by "works of the Law".

Before our High Priest, "After the order of Melchizedek" came, men were under a Priesthood, AKA, "The Levitical Priesthood".

In this Priesthood, which was Prophesied to change at the arrival of the Messiah, when a common man sinned, he was required by Law to do sacrificial "works" before this sin would be forgiven. The mainstream religion of Jerusalem in Christ's and Paul's Time were still promoting their own version of this Law, as they didn't believe Moses, and they were promoting for doctrines the Commandments of men and promoting their own religious traditions they called "The Law of Moses", which caused all who followed them to Transgressed God's commandments. The Jesus of the Bible set me straight about this popular religious sect.

Matt. 15 7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying, 8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. 9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Mark 7: 9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.



In stark contrast to this, God showed us in scriptures, who HE defined as "men of faith". In EVERY EXAMPLE of faithful man that HE gave us in Scriptures, they "Yielded themselves" servants to obey God. And the Christ, the Rock, The Holy One of Israel who became flesh, Author and Finisher of Living FAITH, "being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross."

Therefore, if the Scriptures are true, " Rom. 2: 13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

Then men of Living Faith, "are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. (Rev. 14:12)

And those who call Jesus Lord, Lord, and Profess to know God, but Transgress His Commandments by their religious traditions, are "Children of Disobedience" and therefore "Children of Wrath", or as God defined through Moses, "Children in whom is no Faith".

And salvation by faith is in perfect harmony with salvation by grace. So once again, it is the Scripture that teaches us this; indeed, salvation is by faith in order that it may be according to grace.

WE should be careful to follow all of the instruction of the Christ "of the Bible", in my view.

Matt. 4: 4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

 

[Studyman]

'And many other signs truly did Jesus
in the presence of His disciples,
which are not written in this book:
But these are written, that ye might believe
that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God;
and that believing ye might have life through His name.'
(Joh 20:30-31)

Is. 48: 16 Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me.

17 Thus saith the LORD, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the LORD thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go.

18 O that thou hadst hearkened to my commandments! then had thy peace been as a river, and thy righteousness as the waves of the sea:
This is the Christ that God Sent to redeem us, Yes? As Paul teaches.

2 Tim. 3: 14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;

15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, (Only Scriptures available to Timothy and Paul were the Law and Prophets, where the Rock teaches His People in the way that they should go) which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is "in" Christ Jesus.

 

[charismaticlady]

The issue I am raising is this; is obedience to God's will a work of merit, that is, does one earn salvation by obedience to God?

It is a "work" when it is not a natural occurrence, something you want to do and do without even thinking twice about it. The Jews went through this with the Ten Commandments. The law was in OPPOSITION to their SIN NATURE.

Jesus made it easy to obey Him by removing sin from our nature, and making us righteous: free from sin, and on toward holiness (perfection).

Of course we know that sin was introduced to our human nature through Adam willfully sinning against God. The devil's influence was inherited by Adam and Eve's descendants. Jesus destroyed the works of Satan on the cross. This is why God's children who are born again of His Seed cannot sin. Jesus not only took away the desire to sin, He put His powerful Spirit within us to live according to our new nature. We obey our empowered conscience.

1 John 3:8-9
He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

I read this thread and see you like Romans 6:19. Me too, brother! Put the above verse in your arsenal! Besides 2 Peter 1:2-11, 1 John 3:8-9 is one of my favorites!

When we are used to abiding in Jesus by keeping the commandments and practicing righteousness 1 John 3:24 it is easier to mature in the fruit of the Spirit to holiness, Romans 6:22, " But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life."