"Works Salvation"

[DavidTree]

Jesus saves us from our sin (Matthew 1:21) and sin is the transgression of the Law of God (1 John 3:4), so there is a direct connection between our salvation and being doers of the Law of God and the key is to correctly understand what that connection is and is not. Obeying the Law of God has absolutely nothing to do with deserving salvation or with making a payment for it, so that is not what the connection it, but if you reject works salvation and label everything as works salvation that speaks about what that connection is, the you are refusing to understand what that connection is. We can't trust in Jesus instead of obediently trusting in what he taught.

It is SIN to attempt to please God through the OT law.

In doing so you devalue the SON of GOD.

The law was our tutor to bring us to CHRIST.

CHRIST set us free from the law.

Now I say that the heir, as long as he is a child, does not differ at all from a slave, though he is master of all,
but is under guardians and stewards until the time appointed by the father.
Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world. But when the fullness of the time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law, to redeem those who were under the law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.

And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your hearts, crying out, “Abba, Father!”
Therefore you are no longer a slave but a son, and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.

 

[Soyeong]

It is SIN to attempt to please God through the OT law.

Nowhere does the Bible say that, but rather sin is the transgression of the OT law (Romans 3:20).

In doing so you devalue the SON of GOD.

It is absurd to think that we are devaluing the Son of God by following the example that he set for us to follow, but rather the way to devalue him would be refusing to repent and by returning to the lawlessness that he gave himself to free us from.

The law was our tutor to bring us to CHRIST.

God's Word leads us to God's Word made flesh because it he is the embodiment of it and it was given to teach us how to know him, but the reason why it brings us to Christ is not so that we can then reject everything that he is and go back to being doers of what it reveals to be wickedness.

CHRIST set us free from the law.

In Titus 2:14, it does not say that Christ set us free from the Law of God but that he set us free from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so the way to believe in what he spent his ministry teaching and in what he accomplished through the cross is by renting and becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to the Law of God while the way to reject everything that he accomplished would be by returning to the lawlessness that he gave himself to redeem us from. It doesn't even make sense to think that God's Word made flesh freed us from God's Word, but rather he is the goal of God's Word.

Now I say that the heir, as long as he is a child, does not differ at all from a slave, though he is master of all,
but is under guardians and stewards until the time appointed by the father.
Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world. But when the fullness of the time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law, to redeem those who were under the law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.
And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your hearts, crying out, “Abba, Father!”
Therefore you are no longer a slave but a son, and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.

The Law of God was given for our own good in order to teach us how to be blessed, so those under the law have no need to be redeemed from the Law of God, but rather we had the need to be redeemed from our lawlessness (Titus 2:14). In 1 John 3:4-10, those who are not doers of righteous works in obedience to the Law of God are not children of God, and in Romans 8:4-14, Paul contrasted those who are born of the Spirit with those who have minds set on the flesh who are enemies of God who refuse to submit to the Law of God.

 

[DavidTree]

Nowhere does the Bible say that, but rather sin is the transgression of the OT law (Romans 3:20).

YES, the Bible/Holy Spirit does declare this = Galatians 3:11 and Galatians 5:4

Now it is clear that no one is justified before God by the law, because, “The righteous will live by faith.”

"For if you are trying to make yourselves right with God by keeping the law, you have been cut off from Christ!
You have fallen away from God’s grace."

 

[Soyeong]

YES, the Bible/Holy Spirit does declare this = Galatians 3:11 and Galatians 5:4

Now it is clear that no one is justified before God by the law, because, “The righteous will live by faith.”

"For if you are trying to make yourselves right with God by keeping the law, you have been cut off from Christ!
You have fallen away from God’s grace."

Those verses notable do not say that it is a sin to obey God. We can't earn our righteousness even as the result of having perfect obedience to the Law of God because it was never given as a way of doing that in the first place (Romans 4:1-5), which makes it that much more true that we can't earn our righteousness by works of the law, but rather the Law of God was given to describe the life of someone who is righteous as it describes the life of Christ, so it is what we get to experience being a doer of by being given the gift of righteousness through faith (1 John 3:4-7). In Isaiah 51:7, the righteous are those on whose heart is the Law of God, so the righteous living by faith does not describe an alternative way of living that is not in obedience to God, but rather it speaking about living in obedience to the Law of God through faith.

God wanted His children to repent and to return to obedience to His law all throughout the Bible and even Christ began his ministry with that Gospel message (Matthew 4:15-23), so it would be absurd to interpret Galatians 5:4 as Paul warning us against obeying God and warning that we will be cut off from Christ if we repent and believe the Gospel of Christ. In Psalm 119:29-30, he wanted to put false ways far from him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey His law, and he chose the way of faith by setting it before him, so this has always been the one and only way of salvation by grace through faith, and it would again be absurd to interpret this as if he wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to fall from grace, so you are not correctly identifying what Paul was speaking against. If you agree that Paul was a servant of God, then you should be opposed to you interpreting him as speaking against obeying God and if you think that Paul should be interpreted as speaking against obeying God, then you should be opposed to you considering him to be a servant of God, but either way followers of Christ should follow his example of obedience to God.

 

[Doug Brents]

No it hasnt

Bright, since Christ died not only for the Church but for the whole world (in NT Scripture, "the World" refers to sinners, those who are not in Christ), not everyone for whom Christ died is a doer of the Law of God.

 

[Tothalordbeallglory]

It is SIN to attempt to please God through the OT law.

In doing so you devalue the SON of GOD.

The law was our tutor to bring us to CHRIST.

CHRIST set us free from the law.

Now I say that the heir, as long as he is a child, does not differ at all from a slave, though he is master of all,
but is under guardians and stewards until the time appointed by the father.
Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world. But when the fullness of the time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law, to redeem those who were under the law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.

And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your hearts, crying out, “Abba, Father!”
Therefore you are no longer a slave but a son, and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.

Without faith all is vain .
The keeping of the law was not sin ,
the k eeping of the law without faith was the problem .
Nor did they truly desire to please God . the sacrfices of many
for the blood sacrifices under the law , was often done by many
who were lip only and not heart . And those sacrfices meant nothing to God .
Just like if one uses the name of JESUS as a cover and yet their hearts be after their sin and far from him .
The key always has been , IS IT BY FAITH
or by attempts to appear rightous and justifed in the sight of men . whose praise be of men .
And oh yes my friend you are right , The law was our tutor to bring us TO CHRIST .
And if one thinks he can attain righteousness apart from Faith in GOD thus IN HIS CHRIST , . Oh dear has that one decieved himself .
For there is none righteous but GOD . JESUS is who we need and need big time .
Faith . Abraham had it , some others did too .
Faith . WHO our FAITH IS IN is WHO we BELEIVE and thus obey from the heart that l ovely form of doctrine
delivered unto us . AS IN IT IS DIRE NECESSARY to BELEIVE ON JESUS .
And if one cliams too and t ruly did , THEY HAD BELEIVED HIS WORDS , the WORDS of GOD
and not r ather the twisted doctrines of men gone wrong . TO the trenches one and to the trenches all .

 

[Red Baker]

@Doug Brents

Bright, since Christ died not only for the Church but for the whole world (in NT Scripture, "the World" refers to sinners, those who are not in Christ), not everyone for whom Christ died is a doer of the Law of God.

This is "not" biblically, not even close. World in such scriptures as John 3:16, means all without distinction, not all without exception! In the OT, God was the God of the Jews only, so in the OT, there was a clear cut distinction who God was the God of, not so in the NT, he now includes Gentiles and among each, Jews and Gentiles, God has an elect elect people.

Romans 3:29​

“Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:”

Romans 9:24​

“Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?”

You need to learn how to rightly divide the word of truth, as for this subject, you do not know.

 

[Doug Brents]

This is "not" biblically, not even close. World in such scriptures as John 3:16, means all without distinction, not all without exception! In the OT, God was the God of the Jews only, so in the OT, there was a clear cut distinction who God was the God of, not so in the NT, he now includes Gentiles and among each, Jews and Gentiles, God has an elect elect people.

Romans 3:29​

“Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:”

Romans 9:24​

“Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?”

You need to learn how to rightly divide the word of truth, as for this subject, you do not know.

It does not matter in the least that God is not the God of sinners. Yes, Satan is the god of those who live in sin, and refuse Christ. But that doesn't mean that Jesus did not die for them. The fact that Jesus died for someone doesn't mean that their sins are forgiven. They must accept Him as Lord for His blood to cleanse their sins. But He still died for them.
Jesus died for me, and He is my God.
Jesus died for Hitler, but He was not Hitler's God.
Jesus died for the Pope, but He is not the Pope's God.
Jesus died for the Church, and He is the Church's God.
Jesus died for the World, but He is not the World's God.

 

[brightfame52]

It is SIN to attempt to please God through the OT law.

Yes it is, its evil deeds

 

[brightfame52]

Bright, since Christ died not only for the Church but for the whole world

I must stop you right there, He died only for the Church. And if you condition salvation on anything you do, its a work base salvation,

 

[Jim]

I must stop you right there, He died only for the Church. And if you condition salvation on anything you do, its a work base salvation,

That is nothing more than the demonstration that you are entirely ignorant of most of God's word concerning salvation.

 

[Doug Brents]

I must stop you right there, He died only for the Church.

1 John 2:2 says this statement is incorrect.

And if you condition salvation on anything you do, its a work base salvation,

Scripture also says this is incorrect. Jesus said that if we confess Him before men (some argue this means through a lifestyle of obedience, others argue that it means verbal confession (as Rom 10:9-10 says), I believe it is both), then He will confess us before the Father. He goes on to pose the counter, that if we do not confess Him then He will not confess us. I would argue that Jesus confessing us equates to salvation. Whether confession of Jesus is lifestyle or verbal, it equates to an action which we must take that results in our salvation. It does not "earn" salvation, nor does it merit salvation, but this action MUST occur before Jesus will claim us as His own.

 

[brightfame52]

That is nothing more than the demonstration that you are entirely ignorant of most of God's word concerning salvation.

You can say what you will. Salvation is 100% of Grace of God, now if you add any condition you must do, if its just blink your eye, you cancel out Grace and have a salvation by works which is cursed.

 

[brightfame52]

1 John 2:2 says this statement is incorrect.

Thats the Church, the Body of Christ. And if you add one condition for a man to perform, in order to get saved, its salvation by works, and rejected of God, nothing but dead works

 

[Doug Brents]

Thats the Church, the Body of Christ.

Yes, Christ died for the Church, but not the Church only, but also for the whole world. That is what 1 John 2:2 says.

And if you add one condition for a man to perform, in order to get saved, its salvation by works, and rejected of God, nothing but dead works

That is your interpretation of what Scripture says. NO WHERE does Scripture say that.

 

[brightfame52]

Yes, Christ died for the Church, but not the Church only,

No the Church only.

 

[Doug Brents]

No the Church only.

You either cannot read, or you defy God's Scripture. Which is it?

 

[brightfame52]

You either cannot read, or you defy God's Scripture. Which is it?

I can read fine, but its understanding you lack of scripture. 1 Jn 2:2 the whole world is the Church which He gave His Life for Eph 5:25

 

[Doug Brents]

I can read fine, but its understanding you lack of scripture. 1 Jn 2:2 the whole world is the Church which He gave His Life for Eph 5:25

Then it must be that you defy God's Scripture.

Eph 5:25 does not limit 1 John 2:2. John says that Christ did not die only for the Church, but for the whole world also. "The whole world" is not a distinction between Jews and Gentiles. It is a distinction between the Church (the saved) and Sinners (unsaved). Jesus died for everyone.

 

[brightfame52]

Then it must be that you defy God's Scripture.

Thats the Church the Body of Christ.