"Works Salvation"

[Eternally-Grateful]

If I believed in a works based gospel. That I had to earn my way into heaven by some works based system.

I would chose Judaism, or the roman catholic church.

Most likely the catholics. because they have the most ways to heaven. You can live however you want. and then go confess your sin.. do some penance and your all good. and hey, if you miss it and die before you are made right. you always have purgatory

 

[Doug Brents]

If I believed in a works based gospel. That I had to earn my way into heaven by some works based system.

I would chose Judaism, or the roman catholic church.

Most likely the catholics. because they have the most ways to heaven. You can live however you want. and then go confess your sin.. do some penance and your all good. and hey, if you miss it and die before you are made right. you always have purgatory

I do admit that the catholics do have the best man-made religious system that I know of, but it is still a man-made system that has NOTHING to do with Scripture. But Biblical salvation is not "works based", even though it does require actions of faith to receive.

 

[synergy]

This strikes me as a very catholic statement, seeing as there is NEVER a singular Elder within the Church, and no Elder is above another. Thus, there will never be a "first" (either cardinal or ordinal) Elder/bishop.

The verses I quoted confirm that Timothy was an authoritative regional Episkopos. If that arouses your unconditional dislike of Catholics then you need to deal with that problem.

It's fascinating how anti-Catholics lose their reason for existence when confronted with the fact that in some circumstances Catholics do follow Biblical and Apostolic norms.

Your opinion is noted. But it is neither logical nor supported in Scripture. Timothy, like Paul, was a missionary. His post at that time was indeed in Ephesus. But that does not mean that he was not later relocated to another area once Ephesus and the surrounding area was mature in the faith. Once a congregation of the Church is mature in the faith, and has proven elders to oversee proper doctrine is taught within the Church, the missionary is no longer needed in that area. He can then move on to other areas to teach and plant congregations of the Church there.

It is entirely possible that Timothy did indeed marry someone while he was in or around Ephesus, and that this union resulted in children, and those children became believers, thus allowing Timothy to qualify as an elder. But there is no record of that in Scripture, nor does that speculation bear on this conversation. Timothy's roll was that of missionary to the area surrounding Ephesus. He, like Apollos and many others, was there to water, weed, and cultivate the soil after Paul passed through planting the Seed.

So now you want to rewrite Timothy's life history I see. You've got him traveling all over, getting married, etc.. Let's throw in that he foretold about a future evil Catholic Church and how one day it would force missionaries into becoming stationary authoritative Episkopos. Let's keep throwing in more anti-Catholic sentiments from Timothy while you're at it. Give me a break.

 

[Doug Brents]

The verses I quoted confirm that Timothy was an authoritative regional Episkopos. If that arouses your unconditional dislike of Catholics then you need to deal with that problem.

It's fascinating how anti-Catholics lose their reason for existence when confronted with the fact that in some circumstances Catholics do follow Biblical and Apostolic norms.

Even a broken clock is right twice a day. The fact that the catholic cult is right about a few things does not make them a part of the Church. Timothy was not an Elder (episkopos) of the Church. He was an evangelist, a missionary.

So now you want to rewrite Timothy's life history I see. You've got him traveling all over, getting married, etc.. Let's throw in that he foretold about a future evil Catholic Church and how one day it would force missionaries into becoming stationary authoritative Episkopos. Let's keep throwing in more anti-Catholic sentiments from Timothy while you're at it. Give me a break.

I am not rewriting anything about Timothy's life. I said it is POSSIBLE that Timothy married and had children. It is possible that he settled down in that area and became an Elder (episkopos) in the Ephesian Church. But none of that is in Scripture, so it is simply speculation. In Scripture, Timothy was empowered by Paul to be a missionary and evangelist in and around Ephesus. Timothy was not an Elder/episkopos of the Church, no matter what shenanigans you want to pull.

 

[synergy]

Even a broken clock is right twice a day. The fact that the catholic cult is right about a few things does not make them a part of the Church. Timothy was not an Elder (episkopos) of the Church. He was an evangelist, a missionary.

Which Church is that? The anti-Catholics free-of-Catholics Church?

I am not rewriting anything about Timothy's life. I said it is POSSIBLE that Timothy married and had children. It is possible that he settled down in that area and became an Elder (episkopos) in the Ephesian Church. But none of that is in Scripture, so it is simply speculation. In Scripture, Timothy was empowered by Paul to be a missionary and evangelist in and around Ephesus. Timothy was not an Elder/episkopos of the Church, no matter what shenanigans you want to pull.

Everything you said is speculation, including the part that you think Timothy was a roving missionary, when Scripture reveals that he was a Regional Authoritative Episkopos.

 

[Doug Brents]

Which Church is that? The anti-Catholics free-of-Catholics Church?

There is only one Church. But it certainly is not catholic.

Everything you said is speculation, including the part that you think Timothy was a roving missionary, when Scripture reveals that he was a Regional Authoritative Episkopos.

There is no such thing as a "regional authoritative episkopos" (elder). All elders have responsibility over one congregation, not many. The ONLY position within the Church which has authority over multiple congregations (and then only while those congregations are young and without proven Elders to lead them) is the position of an evangelist (like Paul, Barnabas, and Timothy).