"Works Salvation"

[Eternally-Grateful]

If I believed in a works based gospel. That I had to earn my way into heaven by some works based system.

I would chose Judaism, or the roman catholic church.

Most likely the catholics. because they have the most ways to heaven. You can live however you want. and then go confess your sin.. do some penance and your all good. and hey, if you miss it and die before you are made right. you always have purgatory

 

[Doug Brents]

If I believed in a works based gospel. That I had to earn my way into heaven by some works based system.

I would chose Judaism, or the roman catholic church.

Most likely the catholics. because they have the most ways to heaven. You can live however you want. and then go confess your sin.. do some penance and your all good. and hey, if you miss it and die before you are made right. you always have purgatory

I do admit that the catholics do have the best man-made religious system that I know of, but it is still a man-made system that has NOTHING to do with Scripture. But Biblical salvation is not "works based", even though it does require actions of faith to receive.

 

[synergy]

This strikes me as a very catholic statement, seeing as there is NEVER a singular Elder within the Church, and no Elder is above another. Thus, there will never be a "first" (either cardinal or ordinal) Elder/bishop.

The verses I quoted confirm that Timothy was an authoritative regional Episkopos. If that arouses your unconditional dislike of Catholics then you need to deal with that problem.

It's fascinating how anti-Catholics lose their reason for existence when confronted with the fact that in some circumstances Catholics do follow Biblical and Apostolic norms.

Your opinion is noted. But it is neither logical nor supported in Scripture. Timothy, like Paul, was a missionary. His post at that time was indeed in Ephesus. But that does not mean that he was not later relocated to another area once Ephesus and the surrounding area was mature in the faith. Once a congregation of the Church is mature in the faith, and has proven elders to oversee proper doctrine is taught within the Church, the missionary is no longer needed in that area. He can then move on to other areas to teach and plant congregations of the Church there.

It is entirely possible that Timothy did indeed marry someone while he was in or around Ephesus, and that this union resulted in children, and those children became believers, thus allowing Timothy to qualify as an elder. But there is no record of that in Scripture, nor does that speculation bear on this conversation. Timothy's roll was that of missionary to the area surrounding Ephesus. He, like Apollos and many others, was there to water, weed, and cultivate the soil after Paul passed through planting the Seed.

So now you want to rewrite Timothy's life history I see. You've got him traveling all over, getting married, etc.. Let's throw in that he foretold about a future evil Catholic Church and how one day it would force missionaries into becoming stationary authoritative Episkopos. Let's keep throwing in more anti-Catholic sentiments from Timothy while you're at it. Give me a break.

 

[Doug Brents]

The verses I quoted confirm that Timothy was an authoritative regional Episkopos. If that arouses your unconditional dislike of Catholics then you need to deal with that problem.

It's fascinating how anti-Catholics lose their reason for existence when confronted with the fact that in some circumstances Catholics do follow Biblical and Apostolic norms.

Even a broken clock is right twice a day. The fact that the catholic cult is right about a few things does not make them a part of the Church. Timothy was not an Elder (episkopos) of the Church. He was an evangelist, a missionary.

So now you want to rewrite Timothy's life history I see. You've got him traveling all over, getting married, etc.. Let's throw in that he foretold about a future evil Catholic Church and how one day it would force missionaries into becoming stationary authoritative Episkopos. Let's keep throwing in more anti-Catholic sentiments from Timothy while you're at it. Give me a break.

I am not rewriting anything about Timothy's life. I said it is POSSIBLE that Timothy married and had children. It is possible that he settled down in that area and became an Elder (episkopos) in the Ephesian Church. But none of that is in Scripture, so it is simply speculation. In Scripture, Timothy was empowered by Paul to be a missionary and evangelist in and around Ephesus. Timothy was not an Elder/episkopos of the Church, no matter what shenanigans you want to pull.

 

[synergy]

Even a broken clock is right twice a day. The fact that the catholic cult is right about a few things does not make them a part of the Church. Timothy was not an Elder (episkopos) of the Church. He was an evangelist, a missionary.

Which Church is that? The anti-Catholics free-of-Catholics Church?

I am not rewriting anything about Timothy's life. I said it is POSSIBLE that Timothy married and had children. It is possible that he settled down in that area and became an Elder (episkopos) in the Ephesian Church. But none of that is in Scripture, so it is simply speculation. In Scripture, Timothy was empowered by Paul to be a missionary and evangelist in and around Ephesus. Timothy was not an Elder/episkopos of the Church, no matter what shenanigans you want to pull.

Everything you said is speculation, including the part that you think Timothy was a roving missionary, when Scripture reveals that he was a Regional Authoritative Episkopos.

 

[Doug Brents]

Which Church is that? The anti-Catholics free-of-Catholics Church?

There is only one Church. But it certainly is not catholic.

Everything you said is speculation, including the part that you think Timothy was a roving missionary, when Scripture reveals that he was a Regional Authoritative Episkopos.

There is no such thing as a "regional authoritative episkopos" (elder). All elders have responsibility over one congregation, not many. The ONLY position within the Church which has authority over multiple congregations (and then only while those congregations are young and without proven Elders to lead them) is the position of an evangelist (like Paul, Barnabas, and Timothy).

 

[Neil Spargo]

The big thing for me when it comes to works based salvation has always been when do you know you have done enough works to earn your way into heaven.

6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away. Isaiah 64:6

 

[FreeInChrist]

The big thing for me when it comes to works based salvation has always been when do you know you have done enough works to earn your way into heaven.

6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away. Isaiah 64:6

Good question.

I wish someone would post a list of acceptable works then maybe we could go check them off as done.

Like baptism.

Many say it is a work. Fine. But is it the only one because you cannot be baptized over and over again?
Is it as simple as one done, all done?

You can help the sick, and the poor, and so on... that should be automatically a part of life not even thinking of
doing works, as long as we are able.

IMO, those believing in works salvation (not me) should make a list and post it and might cut out a lot of confusion
on the subject.

 

[Neil Spargo]

@FreeInChrist

Here is a check list I like.

• Good works are the result of salvation, not the cause.

• Part of the reason we were created is to do good works.

• Salvation is a gift from God, not from our efforts.

 

[Jim]

What, biblically, is works salvation?

 

[Jim]

@FreeInChrist

Here is a check list I like.

• Good works are the result of salvation, not the cause.

• Part of the reason we were created is to do good works.

• Salvation is a gift from God, not from our efforts.

If salvation is a gift from God, then why isn't that gift given to everyone?

 

[civic]

Good question.

I wish someone would post a list of acceptable works then maybe we could go check them off as done.

Like baptism.

Many say it is a work. Fine. But is it the only one because you cannot be baptized over and over again?
Is it as simple as one done, all done?

You can help the sick, and the poor, and so on... that should be automatically a part of life not even thinking of
doing works, as long as we are able.

IMO, those believing in works salvation (not me) should make a list and post it and might cut out a lot of confusion
on the subject.

This from got?

God created us for good works, not because of good works. We were not saved by our good works; rather, He saved us for good works. This is such a liberating and encouraging fact for believers. Good works are important in the life of the believer—they are what we are designed to do. But they are not the basis of our lives or the cause of our salvation. Because we have been made righteous and have new life, we can please God. As the author of Hebrews puts it, “Without faith it is impossible to please God” (Hebrews 11:6)—yet that same author explains that believers can please God (Hebrews 13:16). Paul tells the Thessalonians that they are pleasing God by their behavior (1 Thessalonians 4:1), yet he reminds them to excel still more.

God has created us as new creatures so that we might walk with Him and bear fruit (John 15:5; 17:3). We are designed for good works—doing that which pleases God—rather than living according to our old lostness. It is important that believers fulfill God’s design, as we have been created for good works (Ephesians 2:10).


James 2:14–26 is sometimes taken out of context in an attempt to create a works-based system of righteousness, but that is contrary to many other passages of Scripture. James is not saying that our works make us righteous before God but that real saving faith is demonstrated by good works. Works are not the cause of salvation; works are the evidence of salvation. Faith in Christ always results in good works. The person who claims to be a Christian but lives in willful disobedience to Christ has a false or dead faith and is not saved. Paul basically says the same thing in 1 Corinthians 6:9–10. James contrasts two different types of faith—true faith that saves and false faith that is dead.

Many profess to be Christians, but their lives and priorities indicate otherwise. Jesus put it this way: “By their fruits you will know them. Do people pick grapes from thorn bushes, or figs from thistles? Just so, every good tree bears good fruit, and a rotten tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a rotten tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire. So by their fruits you will know them. Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name? Did we not drive out demons in your name? Did we not do mighty deeds in your name?’ Then I will declare to them solemnly, ‘I never knew you. Depart from me, you evildoers’” (Matthew 7:16–23).

Notice that the message of Jesus is the same as the message of James. Obedience to God is the mark of true saving faith. James uses the examples of Abraham and Rahab to illustrate the obedience that accompanies salvation. Simply saying we believe in Jesus does not save us, nor does religious service. What saves us is the Holy Spirit’s regeneration of our hearts, and that regeneration will invariably be seen in a life of faith featuring ongoing obedience to God.

Misunderstanding the relationship of faith and works comes from not understanding what the Bible teaches about salvation. There are really two errors in regards to works and faith. The first error is “easy believism,” the teaching that, as long as a person prayed a prayer or said, “I believe in Jesus,” at some point in his life, then he is saved, no matter what. So a person who, as a child, raised his hand in a church service is considered saved, even though he has never shown any desire to walk with God since and is, in fact, living in blatant sin. This teaching, sometimes called “decisional regeneration,” is dangerous and deceptive. The idea that a profession of faith saves a person, even if he lives like the devil afterwards, assumes a new category of believer called the “carnal Christian.” This allows various ungodly lifestyles to be excused: a man may be an unrepentant adulterer, liar, or bank robber, but he’s saved; he’s just “carnal.” Yet, as we can see in James 2, an empty profession of faith—one that does not result in a life of obedience to Christ—is in reality a dead faith that cannot save.

The other error in regards to works and faith is to attempt to make works part of what justifies us before God. The mixture of works and faith to earn salvation is totally contrary to what Scripture teaches. Romans 4:5 says, “To him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness.” James 2:26 says, “Faith without works is dead.” There is no conflict between these two passages. We are justified by grace through faith, and the natural result of faith in the heart is works that all can see. The works that follow salvation do not make us righteous before God; they simply flow from the regenerated heart as naturally as water flows from a spring.

Salvation is a sovereign act of God whereby an unregenerate sinner has the “washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit” poured out on him (Titus 3:5), thereby causing him to be born again (John 3:3). When this happens, God gives the forgiven sinner a new heart and puts a new spirit within him (Ezekiel 36:26). God removes his sin-hardened heart of stone and fills him with the Holy Spirit. The Spirit then causes the saved person to walk in obedience to God’s Word (Ezekiel 36:26–27).

Faith without works is dead because it reveals a heart that has not been transformed by God. When we have been regenerated by the Holy Spirit, our lives will demonstrate that new life. Our works will be characterized by obedience to God. Unseen faith will become seen by the production of the fruit of the Spirit in our lives (Galatians 5:22). Christians belong to Christ, the Good Shepherd. As His sheep we hear His voice and follow Him (John 10:26–30).

Faith without works is dead because faith results in a new creation, not a repetition of the same old patterns of sinful behavior. As Paul wrote in 2 Corinthians 5:17, “If anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.”

Faith without works is dead because it comes from a heart that has not been regenerated by God. Empty professions of faith have no power to change lives. Those who pay lip service to faith but who do not possess the Spirit will hear Christ Himself say to them, “I never knew you. Depart from me, you evildoers” (Matthew 7:23).

 

[Neil Spargo]

If salvation is a gift from God, then why isn't that gift given to everyone?

The gift of salvation is offered to everyone, but not all will accept it.

 

[Neil Spargo]

This from got?

God created us for good works, not because of good works. We were not saved by our good works; rather, He saved us for good works. This is such a liberating and encouraging fact for believers. Good works are important in the life of the believer—they are what we are designed to do. But they are not the basis of our lives or the cause of our salvation. Because we have been made righteous and have new life, we can please God. As the author of Hebrews puts it, “Without faith it is impossible to please God” (Hebrews 11:6)—yet that same author explains that believers can please God (Hebrews 13:16). Paul tells the Thessalonians that they are pleasing God by their behavior (1 Thessalonians 4:1), yet he reminds them to excel still more.

God has created us as new creatures so that we might walk with Him and bear fruit (John 15:5; 17:3). We are designed for good works—doing that which pleases God—rather than living according to our old lostness. It is important that believers fulfill God’s design, as we have been created for good works (Ephesians 2:10).


James 2:14–26 is sometimes taken out of context in an attempt to create a works-based system of righteousness, but that is contrary to many other passages of Scripture. James is not saying that our works make us righteous before God but that real saving faith is demonstrated by good works. Works are not the cause of salvation; works are the evidence of salvation. Faith in Christ always results in good works. The person who claims to be a Christian but lives in willful disobedience to Christ has a false or dead faith and is not saved. Paul basically says the same thing in 1 Corinthians 6:9–10. James contrasts two different types of faith—true faith that saves and false faith that is dead.

Many profess to be Christians, but their lives and priorities indicate otherwise. Jesus put it this way: “By their fruits you will know them. Do people pick grapes from thorn bushes, or figs from thistles? Just so, every good tree bears good fruit, and a rotten tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a rotten tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire. So by their fruits you will know them. Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name? Did we not drive out demons in your name? Did we not do mighty deeds in your name?’ Then I will declare to them solemnly, ‘I never knew you. Depart from me, you evildoers’” (Matthew 7:16–23).

Notice that the message of Jesus is the same as the message of James. Obedience to God is the mark of true saving faith. James uses the examples of Abraham and Rahab to illustrate the obedience that accompanies salvation. Simply saying we believe in Jesus does not save us, nor does religious service. What saves us is the Holy Spirit’s regeneration of our hearts, and that regeneration will invariably be seen in a life of faith featuring ongoing obedience to God.

Misunderstanding the relationship of faith and works comes from not understanding what the Bible teaches about salvation. There are really two errors in regards to works and faith. The first error is “easy believism,” the teaching that, as long as a person prayed a prayer or said, “I believe in Jesus,” at some point in his life, then he is saved, no matter what. So a person who, as a child, raised his hand in a church service is considered saved, even though he has never shown any desire to walk with God since and is, in fact, living in blatant sin. This teaching, sometimes called “decisional regeneration,” is dangerous and deceptive. The idea that a profession of faith saves a person, even if he lives like the devil afterwards, assumes a new category of believer called the “carnal Christian.” This allows various ungodly lifestyles to be excused: a man may be an unrepentant adulterer, liar, or bank robber, but he’s saved; he’s just “carnal.” Yet, as we can see in James 2, an empty profession of faith—one that does not result in a life of obedience to Christ—is in reality a dead faith that cannot save.

The other error in regards to works and faith is to attempt to make works part of what justifies us before God. The mixture of works and faith to earn salvation is totally contrary to what Scripture teaches. Romans 4:5 says, “To him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness.” James 2:26 says, “Faith without works is dead.” There is no conflict between these two passages. We are justified by grace through faith, and the natural result of faith in the heart is works that all can see. The works that follow salvation do not make us righteous before God; they simply flow from the regenerated heart as naturally as water flows from a spring.

Salvation is a sovereign act of God whereby an unregenerate sinner has the “washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit” poured out on him (Titus 3:5), thereby causing him to be born again (John 3:3). When this happens, God gives the forgiven sinner a new heart and puts a new spirit within him (Ezekiel 36:26). God removes his sin-hardened heart of stone and fills him with the Holy Spirit. The Spirit then causes the saved person to walk in obedience to God’s Word (Ezekiel 36:26–27).

Faith without works is dead because it reveals a heart that has not been transformed by God. When we have been regenerated by the Holy Spirit, our lives will demonstrate that new life. Our works will be characterized by obedience to God. Unseen faith will become seen by the production of the fruit of the Spirit in our lives (Galatians 5:22). Christians belong to Christ, the Good Shepherd. As His sheep we hear His voice and follow Him (John 10:26–30).

Faith without works is dead because faith results in a new creation, not a repetition of the same old patterns of sinful behavior. As Paul wrote in 2 Corinthians 5:17, “If anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.”

Faith without works is dead because it comes from a heart that has not been regenerated by God. Empty professions of faith have no power to change lives. Those who pay lip service to faith but who do not possess the Spirit will hear Christ Himself say to them, “I never knew you. Depart from me, you evildoers” (Matthew 7:23).

I like Got? it has a lot of good info.

The Bible is unique in content. Numerous religious texts teach good morals and righteous ways of life. Unlike other religious texts advocating good works to please an unreachable god, the Bible uniquely teaches that salvation is a gift from God that does not require human works.

8 For it is by free grace (God’s unmerited favor) that you are saved (delivered from judgment and made partakers of Christ’s salvation) through [your] faith. And this [salvation] is not of yourselves [of your own doing, it came not through your own striving], but it is the gift of God;
9 Not because of works [not the fulfillment of the Law’s demands], lest any man should boast. [It is not the result of what anyone can possibly do, so no one can pride himself in it or take glory to himself.]
Ephesians 2:8–9

Whereas other religious books present a set of rules and regulations to follow, the Bible presents freedom in Christ (John 8:36). The Bible reveals that Jesus is God (John 1:1) and that He saves us through His death and resurrection (1 Corinthians 15:1–4).

No other sacred book claims that a religious leader rose from the dead (Matthew 28:5–7; Luke 24:5–6; John 20:20; 1 Corinthians 15:4–8). The God of Scripture is not a far-off, uncaring god but the Creator of all things who is intimately involved in the lives of His creation (Psalm 139:7–12; Acts 17:25–27). No other religious text gives the assurance of eternal life (John 3:16). No other religion’s book is without error or flaw, but the Bible is inerrant and infallible (see 2 Timothy 3:16; 1 Thessalonians 2:13).

Got Questions Ministries, Got Questions? Bible Questions Answered

 

[Aeliana]

The gift of salvation is offered to everyone, but not all will accept it.

Like a package under the Christmas tree, it may have your name on it but it's not yours till you take possession of it.

"possession" the state of having, owning, or controlling something.
"he had taken possession of one of the sofas"

 

[Jim]

The gift of salvation is offered to everyone, but not all will accept it.

So then what is the preaching all about?

 

[civic]

So then what is the preaching all about?

gives people a choice to make. as in choose this day whom you will serve. Gods grace is universal not willing for anyone to perish but for all to come to repentance. God does not interfere with man’s volition/ will.

The only way a man comes to Christ is by their own will.

Jesus said if any man is WILLING to choose in John 7:17

Jeremiah 29:13- You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart.

Hebrews 11:6
And without faith it is impossible to please God. For anyone who approaches Him must believe that He exists and that He rewards those who earnestly seek Him

 

[Neil Spargo]

So then what is the preaching all about?

Preaching about salvation involves explaining God's plan for delivering people from sin, its consequences, and spiritual separation, focusing on the role of Jesus Christ through faith and repentance to achieve reconciliation with God and a new life in this world and the next. Key aspects typically include the necessity of salvation, the process of receiving it, and the resulting benefits, such as forgiveness, justification, adoption, and sanctification.

 

[Jim]

The gift of salvation is offered to everyone, but not all will accept it.

How does one accept the gift? What is involved in doing that? Is accepting the gift something that one does to be saved? If so, then does that make it a works salvation?

 

[civic]

How does one accept the gift? What is involved in to that? Is accepting the gift something that one does to be saved? If so, then does that make it a works salvation?

faith- the person must believe the gospel then they receive the gift of salvation. whoever does not believe remains condemned.

Jesus taught this below

See John 3:16-18

Eternal life is a gift- see Romans 6:23, Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 5:17