"Works Salvation"
- Thread starter Seabass
- Start date
@Titus
But, if you would just listen, a sound grace preacher may just be able to lift you out of that ditch, but pretty you will crawl with out with your work gospel continue on down the road of believing that man must do certain spiritual acts before he can be born again, as though he had the power to do so, without having a new nature and the Spirit of God.
Blind leading the blind!
Matthew 15:14
“Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And "if" the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.”But, if you would just listen, a sound grace preacher may just be able to lift you out of that ditch, but pretty you will crawl with out with your work gospel continue on down the road of believing that man must do certain spiritual acts before he can be born again, as though he had the power to do so, without having a new nature and the Spirit of God.
@DavidTree
These folks do not know the difference between the two, spiritually speaking. Actually the chicken did, by the creation of God ~ just as the new birth comes first before believing, repenting and being baptized in water, and any other spiritual acts toward God.
Titus
Active Member
Now answer my question instead of ad hominem.
@ Titus
I think I will take it.
I am leaving for vacation tomorrow, and you are tempting me to take my computer with me to do some posting. I would love to discuss these scriptures with you and Doug, for the benefit of younger believers.
I think I will take it.
DavidTree
Active Member
sure, after you do this
Please show the ad hominem in my post to you?
adjective
- Attacking a person's character or motivations rather than a position or argument.
"Debaters should avoid ad hominem arguments that question their opponents' motives." - Appealing to the emotions rather than to logic or reason.
Titus
Active Member
if you do not support Red Baker's comments about me being a blind guide then I apologize for including you.
Good, also instead of accusing me of being blind you can address my points and the question that neither you nor David Tree answered.I am leaving for vacation tomorrow, and you are tempting me to take my computer with me to do some posting. I would love to discuss these scriptures with you and Doug, for the benefit of younger believers.
I'll post it again for your memory.
Now I give credit to Eternally Grateful for answering my question somewhat.
Exactly!!!!
Belief without works is a dead faith.
James 2:24,
- Ye see then how that by works(obedience to Gods commands) a man is justified and not by faith only(no obedience to Gods commands, only belief)
Titus
Active Member
btw, it is your theology that teaches one is saved before working any of Gods commandments. Belief only salvation apart from the works of the new testament commandments.
Therefore you are teaching dead faith saves. As James so precisely explains.
I've asked hundreds of baptists and other faith only churches if any works of any kind are required by God in order to be saved by God.
Every one has taught me, that adding any works to salvation is heretical works based false gospel.
DavidTree
Active Member
i DO NOT support that comment = i DO NOT know why he said this to you
God has not allotted Salvation by/thru human effort.
If you believe we are saved thru our 'works' then that will not be pleasing to God and is very dangerous.
This is why i asked you: What came first the chicken or the egg = Genesis
What happened to Adam and did he "work out his salvation"???
The chicken.
God always makes the thing that can reproduce first.
So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. Then God blessed them, and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it; have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth.” Genesis 1:28
Titus
Active Member
I apologize, I'm very sorry for including you. I would never intentionally misrepresent someone.
Adam.
Adam also had something to do.
He had to repent of going against Gods will. If Adam did not repent he never could have been reconciled back to God. No grace given to the unrepentant sinner.
Repentance is godly sorrow in ones heart that changes their mind. The fruit of their change of heart results in a reformation of how one is living.(actions)
2 Corinthians 7:10,
- for godly sorrow worketh repentance without regret, leading to salvation but the sorrow of the world brings about death
I dont know if Adam was saved or lost? If you have scripture for his relationship with God at death or after death please let me know.
Not by our works but working the works of God,
John 6:28-29,
- then said they unto Jesus, what shall we do, that we might work the works of God
- Jesus answered and said unto them, this is the work of God that ye believe on Him whom He sent
Our works would be our own gospel.
Like the Pharisees that added their own laws to Gods law thinking they could be saved by the works they created, merit system, Ephesians 2:8-9 - not of works lest any man should boast
We are saved by working Gods works. That is doing Gods will.
This is true Biblical saving faith. Faith that obeys Gods commandments.
- if any man will do His will he shall know of the doctrine whether it be of God or whether I speak of Myself
True faith works Gods commandments. This is righteousness.
Jesus never taught all one had to do was believe in Him.
He taught belief in Him and obedience to His word to be saved.
John 5:24,
- verily I say unto you, he that heareth(Does what He commands) My word and believeth on Him that sent Me hath everlasting life,...
Heareth is more than listening. It means to follow Jesus' teaching. To obey Jesus' word.
John 18:37,
- Pilate therefore said unto Him, art thou a king then, Jesus answered,
- thou sayest that I am a King, to this end was I born and for this cause came I into the world that I should bear witness unto the truth. Everyone that is of the truth heareth My voice
Acts 10:33-35,
- immediately therefore I sent to thee and thou hast well done that thou art come, now therefore are we all here present before God to hear all things that are commanded thee of God
- but in every nation he that feareth God and worketh righteousness is accepted with Him
Psalm 119:172,
- my tongue shall speak of thy word for all thy commandments are righteousness
According to the new testament gospel of Jesus Christ,
We are saved when our faith obeys the commandments of God.
Working His commandments is not our works.
Working His commandments is working righteousness.
When did Jesus teach only one requirement to be saved? Belief alone?
Jesus taught belief in Him but also one must obey His word, i.e. new testament gospel.
Hebrews 5:8-9,
- and being made perfect Jesus became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey Him
DavidTree
Active Member
i wholeheartedly AGREE with these scriptures you posted = thank you
And i AGREE with the commandments given in them.
Would you agree that these commandments of "works" have a origin that supersedes our initiative?
Titus
Active Member
Adam was first saved then lost. I dont know if he died in Gods grace.
I know every Bible character that was said to be saved had an obedient faith.
God does require our effort,
Revelation 2:10,
- be faithful unto death and I will give thee a crown of life
Effort is not to be confused with merit.
Titus
Active Member
You need to explain what you mean by "supersedes our initiative" ?
DavidTree
Active Member
Titus
Active Member
Of course
DavidTree
Active Member
Titus
Active Member
Created in the image of God.
He was perfect as Jesus. No sin in him
DavidTree
Active Member
Then Adam was not saved when he was created because he did not sin therefore he did not need salvation.
Once Adam sinned he became 'dead in sin' and now in need of Salvation
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