"Works Salvation"

[DavidTree]

well your as wrong as he is. Jesus is ruling, but not with a rod of iron. if you look at the world and think Jesus is ruling. I pity what heaven will look like

Its not for the jews

ITS FOR THE WHOLE WORLD.

if you look at the world and think Jesus is ruling. I pity what heaven will look like

so true

 

[Red Baker]

I know that I am "cutting in line" here

Greetings old friend,

At your age it is permitted, not only so, but more than welcome~ I insist that you do so,. whenever you desire to break into the line.

but I have to ask why Peter would understand that being pricked in one's heart means that they had been born again?

Jim, my friend, Peter has just spent three and half years at the feet of Jesus, learning the word of God. He well understood to look for FRIUTS of a broken and contrite spirit, which these brethren show by the manner in which they asked the apostles, "Men and brethren, What shall do?" Jim, you have almost lived in this world a century ~ you know when men are under great stress by the manner of asking questions they ask, especially if you have the Spirit of God in you. Peter being filled of the Holy Ghost, knew well that God had quickened their dead spirits to life in Jesus Christ. Also, your soteriology, is not according to the word of God, which greatly hinders you from seeing just how corrupt we all are by nature and apart from the grace of Almighty God. Jim, any signs of true biblical spiritual acts follow the new birth, impossible to proceed the new birth ~ or else, Christ died in vain to secured these spiritual blessings for his people.

There is no statement in all the Bible making such a claim.

Jim, of course there's no direct statement saying that, yet it is clearly taught from Genesis to Revelation, mainly in the gospel's and church epistles. All fruits of the Spirit come after being born again from our new nature, be whatever that fruit may be. This very scriptural, not to mention logically, which the Bible is such a book, actually the most logically book ever given to the sons of men, but, especially so to God's children. Jim, Jesus perfectly understood this truth and he cause John 3:1-8 to be in His word for our learning concerning this very truth. You and I have been over that chapter several times in the past fifteen years or so.

If they had been born again, why would they need to ask what they should do? To be regenerated is what happens when one is saved. The one born again is no longer a sinner, no longer dead in trespasses and sins.

Jim, you have such a short memory, understandable ~ No man knows when he is born of God, "impossible", you can only see the fruits of the new birth, which takes time to bring forth, some very quick, some very slow, some almost never show a lot of the fruits of the Spirit! Nicodemus is a great example of this ~ even after Christ discourse with him, showing him that if a man can see, and understand spiritual truth, then that man IS born of the Spirit, yet the good man remained among the Pharisees at least up until Christ died on the cross when he and Joseph of Arimathea, came and took his body down and prepared it to be buried. The new birth takes place in the subconscious part of man and God is the only active person working, since man is dead in trespasses and sins. We may know about (season) when this takes place if you are older like I was, (26) when a great desire comes to us to turn from our sins and to follow the word of God, But, the exact time is not known. John 3:8.

Here again, you seem to have altered the meaning of words and phrases in order to make it align with your beliefs rather than frame your beliefs from what the Bible actually says. There is absolutely nothing about the words "pricked in the heart" that indicates being born again.

In fact, even John Gill doesn't make such a claim. He says:

they were pricked in their hearts; the word of God entered into them, and was as a sharp sword in them, which cut and laid open their hearts, and the sin and wickedness of them; they saw themselves guilty of the crime laid to their charge, and were filled with remorse of conscience for it; they felt pain at their hearts, and much uneasiness, and were seized with horror and trembling; they were wounded in their spirits, being hewn and cut down by the prophets and apostles of the Lord, and slain by the words of his mouth; they were as dead men in their own apprehension; and indeed, a prick, a cut, or wound in the heart is mortal

None of that speaks of being born again. It is not until they have repented and been baptized in the name of Jesus Christ that they receive the gift, the indwelling, Holy Spirit. That is the description of born again of water and Spirit.

Allow me to come back, I got a short meeting, and I shall return later on the day.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

No Messianic age has been established on earth for the simple fact that satan is the god of this age until MESSIAH Returns.

There has been no Resurrection of the Saints which only occurs at His 2nd Coming

Day of the Lord has not arrived for satan and this age of rebellion continues AND no JUDGMENT has FALLEN upon them = Yet

Satan is not bound, It is obvious he still deceives nations..

again, if this world is what it looks like with Jesus ruling and satan bound. Ouch!! Does God really have much power?

 

[Dizerner]

This is rejected in the text itself

You are assuming a lot of things here. You are assuming the second sentence explicates the first instead of contrasts with it.

The first group get a baptism in the Holy Spirit and fire.

The second group get winnowed and burned up.

It would literally make no sense to include the second group inside of the first group.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

You are assuming a lot of things here. You are assuming the second sentence explicates the first instead of contrasts with it.

The first group get a baptism in the Holy Spirit and fire.

The second group get winnowed and burned up.

It would literally make no sense to include the second group inside of the first group.

Now this makes no sense whatsoever.

When you use a winnowing fan to separate the wheat from the chaff. No fire is involved. so to try to relate this with being baptized in the HS and fire is nonsensical.

 

[DavidTree]

You are assuming a lot of things here. You are assuming the second sentence explicates the first instead of contrasts with it.

The first group get a baptism in the Holy Spirit and fire.

The second group get winnowed and burned up.

It would literally make no sense to include the second group inside of the first group.

HalluYAH

 

[DavidTree]

Now this makes no sense whatsoever.

When you use a winnowing fan to separate the wheat from the chaff. No fire is involved. so to try to relate this with being baptized in the HS and fire is nonsensical.

A comes before B

A - the winnowing Fan = the Holy Spirit

B - the chaff is collected and burned

 

[FreeInChrist]

No Messianic age has been established on earth for the simple fact that satan is the god of this age until MESSIAH Returns.

There has been no Resurrection of the Saints which only occurs at His 2nd Coming

Unless you count the recounting of Matt 27: 52-53, especially if you have preterist leanings.

52 Also the tombs were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised;
53 and coming out of the tombs after His resurrection, they entered the holy city and appeared to many.

Day of the Lord has not arrived for satan and this age of rebellion continues AND no JUDGMENT has FALLEN upon them = Yet

Agreed

 

[DavidTree]

Unless you count the recounting of Matt 27: 52-53, especially if you have preterist leanings.

52 Also the tombs were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised;
53 and coming out of the tombs after His resurrection, they entered the holy city and appeared to many.


Agreed

YES, i am familiar with those graves that opened = Thank You for the reminder

Yet, this was not the First Resurrection of 1 Cor ch15/1 Thess 4:13-18 nor did they receive Glorified Bodies

 

[charismaticlady]

the law said stumble in one point

A born again Christian cannot sin, 1 John 3:9, "9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God."

I've been born again for 48 years and do not have any desire to break God's law, and it is the same for all who are actually born again. I am not unique in that promise. 1 John 3:5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin.

break one command (the wage of sin is death)

If anyone is breaking God's laws, they have not been born again of the Spirit and are still under the law.

 

[FreeInChrist]

YES, i am familiar with those graves that opened = Thank You for the reminder

Yet, this was not the First Resurrection of 1 Cor ch15/1 Thess 4:13-18 nor did they receive Glorified Bodies

So far as we know. No glorified bodies. Agreed

 

[DavidTree]

So far as we know. No glorified bodies. Agreed

imho = same type of resurrection as with Lazarus and with Elijah and the boy who died

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

YES, i am familiar with those graves that opened = Thank You for the reminder

Yet, this was not the First Resurrection of 1 Cor ch15/1 Thess 4:13-18 nor did they receive Glorified Bodies

yes. They are not here today. meaning they died again. They were raised as was Lazarus

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

A born again Christian cannot sin, 1 John 3:9, "9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God."

Your reading an english test

It does not say we are unable to commit personal sin

it means we can not live in sin.

I've been born again for 48 years and do not have any desire to break God's law, and it is the same for all who are actually born again. I am not unique in that promise. 1 John 3:5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin.

If anyone is breaking God's laws, they have not been born again of the Spirit and are still under the law.

If you say you have no sin you decieve yourself

these are not my words

 

[Titus]

Acts 2:37,
- now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, men and brethren what shall we do

Acts 9:6-7,
- and Saul trembling and astonished said, Lord what wilt thou have me to do
- and Jesus said unto Saul,Arise and go into the city and it shall be told thee what thou must do

When Jesus tells you, you must do something, can you rebel against His will and be saved?

Acts 10:6,
- he lodgeth with one Simon a tanner whose house is by the sea side, he shall tell thee what thou oughest to do

Acts 16:30,
- and brought them out and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved

 

[DavidTree]

yes. They are not here today. meaning they died again. They were raised as was Lazarus

Same resurrection that God worked thru Elijah with the boy who died

 

[DavidTree]

Acts 2:37,
- now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, men and brethren what shall we do

Acts 9:6-7,
- and Saul trembling and astonished said, Lord what wilt thou have me to do
- and Jesus said unto Saul,Arise and go into the city and it shall be told thee what thou must do

When Jesus tells you, you must do something, can you rebel against His will and be saved?

Acts 10:6,
- he lodgeth with one Simon a tanner whose house is by the sea side, he shall tell thee what thou oughest to do

Acts 16:30,
- and brought them out and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved

100% Truth

Now my Brother @Titus

the age old question = What came FIRST the chicken or the egg?

 

[Titus]

Many teach that Paul was saved on the road to Damascus.
But Jesus told him he must do the will of the Lord.
3 days later Ananias preaches the gospel to him.
Paul becomes an apostle and begins his missionary work as the Lord instructed him to do.

If Paul only believed on the road to Damascus but never did the work Jesus gave him to do.
Could he be saved by his faith alone?

Paul was not saved on the road to Damascus.
Paul was saved when his faith led him to obey God.

If not why not?

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Acts 2:37,
- now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, men and brethren what shall we do

Acts 9:6-7,
- and Saul trembling and astonished said, Lord what wilt thou have me to do
- and Jesus said unto Saul,Arise and go into the city and it shall be told thee what thou must do

When Jesus tells you, you must do something, can you rebel against His will and be saved?

Acts 10:6,
- he lodgeth with one Simon a tanner whose house is by the sea side, he shall tell thee what thou oughest to do

Acts 16:30,
- and brought them out and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved

Its interesting that the people asked these same question to Jesus.

Jesus reply

It is the work of God that we believe

Peter was there at that moment, and confessed we know you have the words of eternal life. we have come and believe

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Many teach that Paul was saved on the road to Damascus.
But Jesus told him he must do the will of the Lord.
3 days later Ananias preaches the gospel to him.
Paul becomes an apostle and begins his missionary work as the Lord instructed him to do.

If Paul only believed on the road to Damascus but never did the work Jesus gave him to do.
Could he be saved by his faith alone?

Your asking the wrong question

If Paul did not do anything, can we say he had faith..

Paul was not saved on the road to Damascus.
Paul was saved when his faith led him to obey God.

If not why not?

paul was saved when he like abraham, Believed God and it was accounted as righteousness.

we are not told when this happened.