Why there can be no gap between the 69th and 70th week

[TomL]

Congratulations!

aimless rhetoric unrelated to fact or argument


couldn't have said it any better.
All your posts are aimless rhetoric, unrelated to fact. I'd say argument, but since you only want to win an argument, so you can have another notch on your belt, I'm thinking that's enough.

So, since I didn't join this discussion to win an argument and that's the only thing you do want, let's make it easy for you.

You win.

Congratulations.

Truth is irrelevant and you've not actually influenced anyone.

But, you enjoy your win.

Now, if you'll excuse me I have some more enjoyable activities to engage in.

My aim is to get you to believe truth not win

Thus you need to acknowledge

1 God stated Cyrus would say to Jerusalem be rebuilt
2 Christ was revealed as the anointed at his baptism
3 Christ was cuttoff after 3 1/2 years of ministry setting up the new covenant

 

[charismaticlady]

That's not what I actually said.
come on C-lady.
read what I actually stated!
the book of Revelation is based on the old testament.
i provided several links to describe and explain this.
Revelation is 404 verses.
there are over 800 allusions to old testament material.
this means that for every verse, there are an average of 2 old testament references in each verse of Revelation.

you missed it.

ever examined the "Joshuaproject.net" site? How about the Voice of the Martyrs site?

Christianity by country - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

So, the other 6 churches all perish?
Are you sure about this?
Please reread the 7 letters.


Where?

The last 4 churches. Thyatira/Catholic and Orthodox; Protestant, and lukewarm.

Romans 11:25-26

25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own [a]opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And so all Israel will be [b]saved, as it is written:

“The Deliverer will come out of Zion,
And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;

2 Thes. 2:8-12

8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

 

[SteveB]

My aim is to get you to believe truth not win

If that was true, you'd actually be paying attention to what I've been explaining. But your clear inability to do so demonstrates otherwise.

Thus you need to acknowledge

I don't need to do anything except be white and die.
I choose to follow Jesus.
Not you. Not the people you think we should all follow.

1 God stated Cyrus would say to Jerusalem be rebuilt

Ironically, Cyrus says he was told to rebuild the temple.
Just how often do you think telling me that God told Cyrus to do something Cyrus never did means that Cyrus actually did it?


Ezr 1:2 WEB “Cyrus king of Persia says, ‘Yahweh, the God of heaven, has given me all the kingdoms of the earth; and he has commanded me to build him a house in Jerusalem, which is in Judah.

Ezr 1:3 WEB Whoever there is among you of all his people, may his God be with him, and let him go up to Jerusalem, which is in Judah, and build the house of Yahweh, the God of Israel (he is God), which is in Jerusalem.
Ezr 1:4 WEB Whoever is left, in any place where he lives, let the men of his place help him with silver, with gold, with goods, and with animals, in addition to the free will offering for God’s house which is in Jerusalem.’”

If you're right, why did Cyrus focus on, indeed, emphasize the House of God?
I was of the understanding that the Hebrew leaders brought the scroll of Isaiah to Cyrus and actually read it to him. That they were really excited about it and explained it to him.

So, why didn't he do both the city and the house of God?
Why did he emphasize the Temple?

2- Christ was revealed as the anointed at his baptism

Well, you can continue saying it until pigs fly, but that doesn't make it so.
In fact, let me know when the pigs fly. Make sure you take video.

3 Christ was cuttoff after 3 1/2 years of ministry setting up the new covenant

Again, let me know when the pigs fly. I'd really like to see it.

70 sevens are decreed to achieve 6 very specific things.
If your 3 actually are correct, then you're still wrong, because the balance are not done.

So, your ideas are false.



Dan 9:24 WEB “Seventy weeks are decreed on your people and on your holy city,
to finish disobedience, to make an end of sins, to make reconciliation for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most holy.

 

[TomL]

If that was true, you'd actually be paying attention to what I've been explaining. But your clear inability to do so demonstrates otherwise.

What you have been doing is exalting the calculations and calendars of men over the word of God

Ironically, Cyrus says he was told to rebuild the temple.
Just how often do you think telling me that God told Cyrus to do something Cyrus never did means that Cyrus actually did it?


Ezr 1:2 WEB “Cyrus king of Persia says, ‘Yahweh, the God of heaven, has given me all the kingdoms of the earth; and he has commanded me to build him a house in Jerusalem, which is in Judah.

Ezr 1:3 WEB Whoever there is among you of all his people, may his God be with him, and let him go up to Jerusalem, which is in Judah, and build the house of Yahweh, the God of Israel (he is God), which is in Jerusalem.
Ezr 1:4 WEB Whoever is left, in any place where he lives, let the men of his place help him with silver, with gold, with goods, and with animals, in addition to the free will offering for God’s house which is in Jerusalem.’”

If you're right, why did Cyrus focus on, indeed, emphasize the House of God?
I was of the understanding that the Hebrew leaders brought the scroll of Isaiah to Cyrus and actually read it to him. That they were really excited about it and explained it to him.

So, why didn't he do both the city and the house of God?
Why did he emphasize the Temple?

What was stated there does not contradict what is stated here

Isaiah 44:24–45:13 (NIV) — 24 “This is what the LORD says— your Redeemer, who formed you in the womb: I am the LORD, the Maker of all things, who stretches out the heavens, who spreads out the earth by myself, 25 who foils the signs of false prophets and makes fools of diviners, who overthrows the learning of the wise and turns it into nonsense, 26 who carries out the words of his servants and fulfills the predictions of his messengers, who says of Jerusalem, ‘It shall be inhabited,’ of the towns of Judah, ‘They shall be rebuilt,’ and of their ruins, ‘I will restore them,’ 27 who says to the watery deep, ‘Be dry, and I will dry up your streams,’ 28 who says of Cyrus, ‘He is my shepherd and will accomplish all that I please; he will say of Jerusalem, “Let it be rebuilt,” and of the temple, “Let its foundations be laid.” ’ 1 “This is what the LORD says to his anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I take hold of to subdue nations before him and to strip kings of their armor, to open doors before him so that gates will not be shut: 2 I will go before you and will level the mountains; I will break down gates of bronze and cut through bars of iron. 3 I will give you hidden treasures, riches stored in secret places, so that you may know that I am the LORD, the God of Israel, who summons you by name. 4 For the sake of Jacob my servant, of Israel my chosen, I summon you by name and bestow on you a title of honor, though you do not acknowledge me. 5 I am the LORD, and there is no other; apart from me there is no God. I will strengthen you, though you have not acknowledged me, 6 so that from the rising of the sun to the place of its setting people may know there is none besides me. I am the LORD, and there is no other. 7 I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things. 8 “You heavens above, rain down my righteousness; let the clouds shower it down. Let the earth open wide, let salvation spring up, let righteousness flourish with it; I, the LORD, have created it. 9 “Woe to those who quarrel with their Maker, those who are nothing but potsherds among the potsherds on the ground. Does the clay say to the potter, ‘What are you making?’ Does your work say, ‘The potter has no hands’? 10 Woe to the one who says to a father, ‘What have you begotten?’ or to a mother, ‘What have you brought to birth?’ 11 “This is what the LORD says— the Holy One of Israel, and its Maker: Concerning things to come, do you question me about my children, or give me orders about the work of my hands? 12 It is I who made the earth and created mankind on it. My own hands stretched out the heavens; I marshaled their starry hosts. 13 I will raise up Cyrus in my righteousness: I will make all his ways straight. He will rebuild my city and set my exiles free, but not for a price or reward, says the LORD Almighty.”
BTW you assume they were not done. I showed otherwise

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/ancient-views-on-the-gap-theory.1391/post-58237

 

[SteveB]

The last 4 churches. Thyatira/Catholic and Orthodox; Protestant, and lukewarm.

Take a closer look at the 7 churches.
Let's start with Ephesus

Rev 2:1-29 WEB 1 “To the angel of the assembly in Ephesus write: “He who holds the seven stars in his right hand, he who walks among the seven golden lamp stands says these things: 2 “I know your works, and your toil and perseverance, and that you can’t tolerate evil men, and have tested those who call themselves apostles, and they are not, and found them false. 3 You have perseverance and have endured for my name’s sake, and have not grown weary. 4 But I have this against you, that you left your first love. 5 Remember therefore from where you have fallen, and repent and do the first works; or else I am coming to you swiftly, and will move your lamp stand out of its place, unless you repent. 6 But this you have, that you hate the works of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate. 7 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the assemblies. To him who overcomes I will give to eat from the tree of life, which is in the Paradise of my God.

Look at what Jesus says to the Ephesus assembly. It's not good.
They're clearly Orthodox they are diligent on doctrine, they're diligent in good works. They're very diligent in testing false teachers....
They do however have a very serious problem.

they've left their first love.
he's giving them the opportunity to rectify their situation.


Smyrna


8 “To the angel of the assembly in Smyrna write: “The first and the last, who was dead, and has come to life says these things: 9 “I know your works, oppression, and your poverty (but you are rich), and the blasphemy of those who say they are Jews, and they are not, but are a synagogue of Satan. 10 Don’t be afraid of the things which you are about to suffer. Behold, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested; and you will have oppression for ten days. Be faithful to death, and I will give you the crown of life. 11 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the assemblies. He who overcomes won’t be harmed by the second death.

Consider what's being stated here to the church in Smyrna.




12 “To the angel of the assembly in Pergamum write: “He who has the sharp two-edged sword says these things: 13 “I know your works and where you dwell, where Satan’s throne is. You hold firmly to my name, and didn’t deny my faith in the days of Antipas my witness, my faithful one, who was killed among you, where Satan dwells. 14 But I have a few things against you, because you have there some who hold the teaching of Balaam, who taught Balak to throw a stumbling block before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed to idols, and to commit sexual immorality. 15 So also you likewise have some who hold to the teaching of the Nicolaitans. 16 Repent therefore, or else I am coming to you quickly and I will make war against them with the sword of my mouth. 17 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the assemblies. To him who overcomes, to him I will give of the hidden manna, and I will give him a white stone, and on the stone a new name written which no one knows but he who receives it.

Pergamum is a serious church. Note the problems they're having and the promises that they are given.



18 “To the angel of the assembly in Thyatira write: “The Son of God, who has his eyes like a flame of fire, and his feet are like burnished brass, says these things: 19 “I know your works, your love, faith, service, patient endurance, and that your last works are more than the first. 20 But I have this against you, that you tolerate your woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess. She teaches and seduces my servants to commit sexual immorality and to eat things sacrificed to idols. 21 I gave her time to repent, but she refuses to repent of her sexual immorality. 22 Behold, I will throw her and those who commit adultery with her into a bed of great oppression, unless they repent of her works. 23 I will kill her children with Death, and all the assemblies will know that I am he who searches the minds and hearts. I will give to each one of you according to your deeds. 24 But to you I say, to the rest who are in Thyatira—as many as don’t have this teaching, who don’t know what some call ‘the deep things of Satan’—to you I say, I am not putting any other burden on you. 25 Nevertheless, hold that which you have firmly until I come. 26 He who overcomes, and he who keeps my works to the end, to him I will give authority over the nations. 27 He will rule them with a rod of iron, shattering them like clay pots, as I also have received of my Father; 28 and I will give him the morning star. 29 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the assemblies.



Rev 3:1-22 WEB 1 “And to the angel of the assembly in Sardis write: “He who has the seven Spirits of God and the seven stars says these things: “I know your works, that you have a reputation of being alive, but you are dead. 2 Wake up and strengthen the things that remain, which you were about to throw away, for I have found no works of yours perfected before my God. 3 Remember therefore how you have received and heard. Keep it and repent. If therefore you won’t watch, I will come as a thief, and you won’t know what hour I will come upon you. 4 Nevertheless you have a few names in Sardis that didn’t defile their garments. They will walk with me in white, for they are worthy. 5 He who overcomes will be arrayed in white garments, and I will in no way blot his name out of the book of life, and I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. 6 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the assemblies.


7 “To the angel of the assembly in Philadelphia write: “He who is holy, he who is true, he who has the key of David, he who opens and no one can shut, and who shuts and no one opens, says these things: 8 “I know your works (behold, I have set before you an open door, which no one can shut), that you have a little power, and kept my word, and didn’t deny my name. 9 Behold, I make some of the synagogue of Satan, of those who say they are Jews, and they are not, but lie—behold, I will make them to come and worship before your feet, and to know that I have loved you. 10 Because you kept my command to endure, I also will keep you from the hour of testing which is to come on the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth. 11 I am coming quickly! Hold firmly that which you have, so that no one takes your crown. 12 He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God, and he will go out from there no more. I will write on him the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from my God, and my own new name. 13 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the assemblies.



14 “To the angel of the assembly in Laodicea write: “The Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, the Beginning of God’s creation, says these things: 15 “I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were cold or hot. 16 So, because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will vomit you out of my mouth. 17 Because you say, ‘I am rich, and have gotten riches, and have need of nothing,’ and don’t know that you are the wretched one, miserable, poor, blind, and naked; 18 I counsel you to buy from me gold refined by fire, that you may become rich; and white garments, that you may clothe yourself, and that the shame of your nakedness may not be revealed; and eye salve to anoint your eyes, that you may see. 19 As many as I love, I reprove and chasten. Be zealous therefore, and repent. 20 Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, then I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with me. 21 He who overcomes, I will give to him to sit down with me on my throne, as I also overcame and sat down with my Father on his throne. 22 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the assemblies.”

each of the 7 churches have good and bad.

Romans 11:25-26

25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own [a]opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And so all Israel will be [b]saved, as it is written:

“The Deliverer will come out of Zion,
And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;

Yep.

2 Thes. 2:8-12

8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

 

[TomL]

@SteveB

Do you believe the New Testament?

Would you agree, as the more clear revelation, the New Testament should have hermeneutical priority?

That if your eschatology cannot be made to agree with it, then your eschatology is wrong ?

 

[charismaticlady]

Take a closer look at the 7 churches.
Let's start with Ephesus

Rev 2:1-29 WEB 1 “To the angel of the assembly in Ephesus write: “He who holds the seven stars in his right hand, he who walks among the seven golden lamp stands says these things: 2 “I know your works, and your toil and perseverance, and that you can’t tolerate evil men, and have tested those who call themselves apostles, and they are not, and found them false. 3 You have perseverance and have endured for my name’s sake, and have not grown weary. 4 But I have this against you, that you left your first love. 5 Remember therefore from where you have fallen, and repent and do the first works; or else I am coming to you swiftly, and will move your lamp stand out of its place, unless you repent. 6 But this you have, that you hate the works of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate. 7 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the assemblies. To him who overcomes I will give to eat from the tree of life, which is in the Paradise of my God.

Look at what Jesus says to the Ephesus assembly. It's not good.
They're clearly Orthodox they are diligent on doctrine, they're diligent in good works. They're very diligent in testing false teachers....
They do however have a very serious problem.

they've left their first love.
he's giving them the opportunity to rectify their situation.


Smyrna


8 “To the angel of the assembly in Smyrna write: “The first and the last, who was dead, and has come to life says these things: 9 “I know your works, oppression, and your poverty (but you are rich), and the blasphemy of those who say they are Jews, and they are not, but are a synagogue of Satan. 10 Don’t be afraid of the things which you are about to suffer. Behold, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested; and you will have oppression for ten days. Be faithful to death, and I will give you the crown of life. 11 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the assemblies. He who overcomes won’t be harmed by the second death.

Consider what's being stated here to the church in Smyrna.




12 “To the angel of the assembly in Pergamum write: “He who has the sharp two-edged sword says these things: 13 “I know your works and where you dwell, where Satan’s throne is. You hold firmly to my name, and didn’t deny my faith in the days of Antipas my witness, my faithful one, who was killed among you, where Satan dwells. 14 But I have a few things against you, because you have there some who hold the teaching of Balaam, who taught Balak to throw a stumbling block before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed to idols, and to commit sexual immorality. 15 So also you likewise have some who hold to the teaching of the Nicolaitans. 16 Repent therefore, or else I am coming to you quickly and I will make war against them with the sword of my mouth. 17 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the assemblies. To him who overcomes, to him I will give of the hidden manna, and I will give him a white stone, and on the stone a new name written which no one knows but he who receives it.

Pergamum is a serious church. Note the problems they're having and the promises that they are given.



18 “To the angel of the assembly in Thyatira write: “The Son of God, who has his eyes like a flame of fire, and his feet are like burnished brass, says these things: 19 “I know your works, your love, faith, service, patient endurance, and that your last works are more than the first. 20 But I have this against you, that you tolerate your woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess. She teaches and seduces my servants to commit sexual immorality and to eat things sacrificed to idols. 21 I gave her time to repent, but she refuses to repent of her sexual immorality. 22 Behold, I will throw her and those who commit adultery with her into a bed of great oppression, unless they repent of her works. 23 I will kill her children with Death, and all the assemblies will know that I am he who searches the minds and hearts. I will give to each one of you according to your deeds. 24 But to you I say, to the rest who are in Thyatira—as many as don’t have this teaching, who don’t know what some call ‘the deep things of Satan’—to you I say, I am not putting any other burden on you. 25 Nevertheless, hold that which you have firmly until I come. 26 He who overcomes, and he who keeps my works to the end, to him I will give authority over the nations. 27 He will rule them with a rod of iron, shattering them like clay pots, as I also have received of my Father; 28 and I will give him the morning star. 29 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the assemblies.



Rev 3:1-22 WEB 1 “And to the angel of the assembly in Sardis write: “He who has the seven Spirits of God and the seven stars says these things: “I know your works, that you have a reputation of being alive, but you are dead. 2 Wake up and strengthen the things that remain, which you were about to throw away, for I have found no works of yours perfected before my God. 3 Remember therefore how you have received and heard. Keep it and repent. If therefore you won’t watch, I will come as a thief, and you won’t know what hour I will come upon you. 4 Nevertheless you have a few names in Sardis that didn’t defile their garments. They will walk with me in white, for they are worthy. 5 He who overcomes will be arrayed in white garments, and I will in no way blot his name out of the book of life, and I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. 6 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the assemblies.


7 “To the angel of the assembly in Philadelphia write: “He who is holy, he who is true, he who has the key of David, he who opens and no one can shut, and who shuts and no one opens, says these things: 8 “I know your works (behold, I have set before you an open door, which no one can shut), that you have a little power, and kept my word, and didn’t deny my name. 9 Behold, I make some of the synagogue of Satan, of those who say they are Jews, and they are not, but lie—behold, I will make them to come and worship before your feet, and to know that I have loved you. 10 Because you kept my command to endure, I also will keep you from the hour of testing which is to come on the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth. 11 I am coming quickly! Hold firmly that which you have, so that no one takes your crown. 12 He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God, and he will go out from there no more. I will write on him the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from my God, and my own new name. 13 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the assemblies.



14 “To the angel of the assembly in Laodicea write: “The Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, the Beginning of God’s creation, says these things: 15 “I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were cold or hot. 16 So, because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will vomit you out of my mouth. 17 Because you say, ‘I am rich, and have gotten riches, and have need of nothing,’ and don’t know that you are the wretched one, miserable, poor, blind, and naked; 18 I counsel you to buy from me gold refined by fire, that you may become rich; and white garments, that you may clothe yourself, and that the shame of your nakedness may not be revealed; and eye salve to anoint your eyes, that you may see. 19 As many as I love, I reprove and chasten. Be zealous therefore, and repent. 20 Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, then I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with me. 21 He who overcomes, I will give to him to sit down with me on my throne, as I also overcame and sat down with my Father on his throne. 22 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the assemblies.”

each of the 7 churches have good and bad.

Unfortunately the powerful doctrines of the apostles of the first century did not last to be taught in the Catholic and Orthodox denominations, the first church eras to continue to the end. Nor were they picked up in the Reformation. In fact, the Reformation didn't even pick up doctrines of the Catholics that were truth. You don't see truth again until Philadelphia by the filling of the Holy Spirit. This is why they will be kept from the martyrism of the Smyrna era. And the false gods of Pergamos were adopted by Thyatira, and is part of Thyatira to this day. Thyatira is the first of the seven to continue, then Protestants are still here. Steve, there are people with traits of the first three, but you don't see them as denominations like the last four.

 

[SteveB]

Unfortunately the powerful doctrines of the apostles of the first century did not last to be taught in the Catholic and Orthodox denominations, the first church eras to continue to the end.

really?
So, God wasn't powerful enough to ensure that His Word passed through to each generation down through to today?
how then do we have the Bible today?

Nor were they picked up in the Reformation. In fact, the Reformation didn't even pick up doctrines of the Catholics that were truth. You don't see truth again until Philadelphia by the filling of the Holy Spirit. This is why they will be kept from the martyrism of the Smyrna era. And the false gods of Pergamos were adopted by Thyatira, and is part of Thyatira to this day. Thyatira is the first of the seven to continue, then Protestants are still here. Steve, there are people with traits of the first three, but you don't see them as denominations like the last four.

Sounds like you're saying that there is no faithful remnant in the world today.

Whatever god you believe in must be extremely inept.

How does anyone get saved in your belief?

 

[SteveB]

@SteveB

Do you believe the New Testament?

I believe in the God of Abraham, Issac, and Israel, who is the King of Kings and Lord of lords, whose name is YHVH, the Son, Jesus of Nazareth.
I believe what is detailed throughout the entire Bible, Genesis through Revelation.

Would you agree, as the more clear revelation, the New Testament should have hermeneutical priority?

Hermeneutical priority...
With such a high falutin statement, I'm glad Paul quotes so much of the old testament in his letters.
It shows that without the old testament the new testament has no context.
And without the new testament, the old testament is without fulfillment.

That if your eschatology cannot be made to agree with it, then your eschatology is wrong ?

Oh the irony.
It's absolutely hilarious that you don't actually see what you're saying.

My eschatology is having absolutely no problem whatsoever with the old and the new testaments.

 

[charismaticlady]

So, God wasn't powerful enough to ensure that His Word passed through to each generation down through to today?
how then do we have the Bible today?

There is always a remnant. Like St. Fransis of Assisi.

Sounds like you're saying that there is no faithful remnant in the world today.

Whatever god you believe in must be extremely inept.

How does anyone get saved in your belief?

How many denominations teach sinlessness today? Do you? How many go on to teach perfection? Not sinless perfection, but cleansed from all unrighteousness and made righteous 1 John 3, then go on to maturing all the fruit of the Spirit which is perfection 2 Peter 1:2-11, John 15

Hey Steve, I am finally go to brew that coffee! Talk to you later brother.

 

[SteveB]

There is always a remnant. Like St. Fransis of Assisi.


How many denominations teach sinlessness today? Do you? How many go on to teach perfection? Not sinless perfection, but cleansed from all unrighteousness and made righteous 1 John 3, then go on to maturing all the fruit of the Spirit which is perfection 2 Peter 1:2-11, John 15

Hey Steve, I am finally go to brew that coffee! Talk to you later brother.

Sounds like you haven't read Hebrews.

Heb 10:10-14 KJV 10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. 11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: 12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; 13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. 14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Jesus gave us his perfection and his holiness.

Col 2:9-10 KJV 9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. 10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:


There is no better holiness
There is no better perfection than what Jesus gives us.

Instead of striving to achieve your own, receive the holiness and the perfection that Jesus gives us.

 

[charismaticlady]

Sounds like you haven't read Hebrews.

Heb 10:10-14 KJV 10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. 11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: 12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; 13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. 14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Jesus gave us his perfection and his holiness.

Col 2:9-10 KJV 9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. 10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:


There is no better holiness
There is no better perfection than what Jesus gives us.

Instead of striving to achieve your own, receive the holiness and the perfection that Jesus gives us.

Yes, that is what the apostles taught. But I've been on Christian forum sites for years and very few teach or accept that Jesus takes away our sin. Instead, they teach that Jesus' blood covers our "past, present and future" sins while we commit them.

So by this post are you agreeing with an actual supernatural change in our nature? Or do you believe we will always have a sin nature?

 

[SteveB]

Yes, that is what the apostles taught.

it's what every single church I've ever attended teaches.

But I've been on Christian forum sites for years and very few teach or accept that Jesus takes away our sin.

I've been on internet sites, since 2000.
it's what I have been emphasizing since my arrival in 2000.
i don't let others define the truth for me.
i let the Bible define the truth.

Instead, they teach that Jesus' blood covers our "past, present and future" sins while we commit them.

sounds like you're paying more attention to what people think, instead of what Jesus says.
what does the writer of Hebrews tell us in Hebrews 12:2?
according to your description above... You're not actually doing this.

Heb 12:1-3 WEB 1 Therefore let’s also, seeing we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, lay aside every weight and the sin which so easily entangles us, and let’s run with perseverance the race that is set before us, 2 looking to Jesus, the author and perfecter of faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising its shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God. 3 For consider him who has endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, that you don’t grow weary, fainting in your souls.

My job as a follower of Jesus is to actually make sure I'm learning to follow Jesus.
Paul said we're to follow him, AS HE FOLLOWS Jesus.

1Co 11:1 WEB Be imitators of me, even as I also am of Christ.
Only as he's following Jesus to we follow him.
In another place, he tells us to emulate him.

Imitate Me

D.A. Carson, in his new little book From the Resurrection to His Return: Living Faithfully in the Last Days (Christian Focus), asks: “Do you ever say to a young Christian, ‘Do you want to know what Christianity is like? Watch me!’ If you never do, you are unbiblical.” The Apostle Paul hit this...

www.thegospelcoalition.org

So by this post are you agreeing with an actual supernatural change in our nature?
Or do you believe we will always have a sin nature?

According to Romans 6-8, Galatians 2-6, Colossians, Ephesians, 1 John, etc...

We have both the carnal nature, and as those who are spiritually regenerated, we have the new nature.

Those who live after the old nature will reap corruption.
Those who live after the new nature will receive eternal life.
Galatians 6:7-9


Gal 6:7-9 WEB 7 Don’t be deceived. God is not mocked, for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. 8 For he who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption. But he who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life. 9 Let’s not be weary in doing good, for we will reap in due season if we don’t give up.

 

[charismaticlady]

I've been on internet sites, since 2000.
it's what I have been emphasizing since my arrival in 2000.
i don't let others define the truth for me.
i let the Bible define the truth.

We must not have been on the same sites as I don't seem to recognize you. I would like to know what church denomination teaches the true gospel? Do you mind telling me the name of your denomination, or is it just you?

sounds like you're paying more attention to what people think, instead of what Jesus says.
what does the writer of Hebrews tell us in Hebrews 12:2?
according to your description above... You're not actually doing this.

Doing what? I abide in Jesus and He does the changing in me as the Author and Finisher of my faith. It actually surprises me when I don't react the same way as I used to.

 

[SteveB]

We must not have been on the same sites as I don't seem to recognize you.

Ok...
I know that there's someone who is named Charismatic Lady over on Carm. I've talked with them from time to time there.

I would like to know what church denomination teaches the true gospel?

I don't know all the denominations.

Do you mind telling me the name of your denomination, or is it just you?

but my wife and I attend a Calvary Chapel where we live.

i got saved in 1977, at Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa, in Southern California.

they're all over the place now.

Doing what? I abide in Jesus and He does the changing in me as the Author and Finisher of my faith.

good.

It actually surprises me when I don't react the same way as I used to.

Yeah, it's rather astounding the changes that take place inside our lives.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Good grief Bob you've been on here talking about theological positions you agree with and disagree! How about your post here #1342 from the Hypostatic Union thread,

WE have a Human Nature, and are joined by the Holy Spirit whenever we're Born Again.

SO essentially EVERY CHRISTIAN has "two natures" The "OLD MAN", and the "Christ nature". Paul talks about that in Romans 7.

So you're talking theology Bob, THEOLOGY! Plus other things you say in other posts as well!

There's "Theology" (as in Calvinism, or Arminianism) that takes a simple thing, makes up its own private Definitions of common terms, and creates interpretations "adjusted" to produce all sorts of "explanations".

"Theology" was what led to Jesus' condemnation and murder, since the Jewish Theologians "Knew" what Messiah would/HAD TO do, and Jesus didn't do that, so he HAD TO BE A BLASPHEMER!!!! Their Theology "PROVED IT" - still does for them.

Did you know that being "Born again", and being "Saved" theologically aren't the same thing?? Or that being "Regenerated", and being "Saved" are different concepts??? When I was Born again, I needed NONE of that foolishness, and it was an act of the Holy SPirit, and a transaction between ME, and HIM - no "Theology" required.

And, on the other hand, there's "Theology" that simply states what the Bible SAYS - no "Academic level Man's interpretation required" There's a GREAT DIFFERENCE between the two.

Since the bible (Without benefit of "Thelogical processing") says that the Holy Spirit comes INTO ME as a Christian, and my "Old Man" has to be dealt with, that's not "Man's Theology" at all - just what the Bible says. If the Calvinist agrees, then good for them, but I didn't need "Calvinism", Arminianism, "Catholicism" or ANY OF THEIR opinions/interpretations to understand that.

"Theology" (some versions) says that Babies have SIN, and go to hell if they die - in which case Angeline (my first-born) has been tortured in HELL for the last 54 years. Nothing in the Bible says that.

"Theology" (some versions) claim that "Once saved, Always saved", or the opposite. The Bible doesn't ever state that one way or another - "theology" does.

"Theology" (some versions) tell me that I'll go to HELL for what Adam did. Nothing in the Bible says that. The Bible says plainly that I'll die BECAUSE OF MY OWN SIN. no "Theology" required. When I was saved (born again - whatever) the Holy Spirit pointed out and convicted me of MY SIN, not Adam's.

Jesus said plainly that he would give ME (as a Christian) another comforter, who would lead me into TRUTH (John 14:26, John 15:25), NOt a "Thelogian" that would explain to me what he thinks the Bible MEANS when it says what it says. "Theology" (some versions) claim that Jesus WAS ONLY TALKING to the Disciples, and none of that applies to me.

The Bible also tells me that the anointing leads to truth, and I NEED NOBODY TO TEACH ME. (1 John 2:27). no "Academic Theology" in sight, just that which the Bible says. The "theologian" (some versions) say - that's a LIE!!!! He wasn't talking to YOU, just THEM.

Etc. Draw your own conclusions. I already have mine.

 

[Rockson]

There's "Theology" (as in Calvinism, or Arminianism) that takes a simple thing, makes up its own private Definitions of common terms, and creates interpretations "adjusted" to produce all sorts of "explanations".

Sure I can agree with that. I don't think anyone denies some of what are called theologians focus in and nit pick at times over the most inconsequential things. But theology is important on many subjects and themes and the Apostles thought so as well.

Below are words from

Why should I study theology? | GotQuestions.org

Why should I study theology? What is the value in studying theology? Why is knowing theology important?

www.gotquestions.org

"Students of theology are seeking truth, and, in doing so, they find themselves in the esteemed company of the Bereans: “Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true” (Acts 17:11). By studying theology, the born-again student strengthens his faith (Colossians 2:6–7), grows in his knowledge of Christ (2 Peter 3:18), participates in his sanctification (John 17:17; Psalm 119:9), discerns truth from error (Psalm 119:160), and equips himself for every good work (2 Timothy 3:17)".

 

[charismaticlady]

Ok...
I know that there's someone who is named Charismatic Lady over on Carm. I've talked with them from time to time there.


I don't know all the denominations.




but my wife and I attend a Calvary Chapel where we live.

i got saved in 1977, at Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa, in Southern California.

they're all over the place now.



good.


Yeah, it's rather astounding the changes that take place inside our lives.

I went to a Seventh-day Adventist church on Saturday, and to Calvary Chapel on Sunday. Yes, that's me on CARM. Does your Calvary Chapel keep the Calvinist T of total depravity that Chuck Smith added? I don't think this one does. I've only been once, and I'll go tomorrow night too. I like the people in both of these churches.

 

[SteveB]

I went to a Seventh-day Adventist church on Saturday, and to Calvary Chapel on Sunday.

Interesting...

Yes, that's me on CARM.

Figured as much.

Does your Calvary Chapel keep the Calvinist T of total depravity that Chuck Smith added?

Here's the Calvary Chapel position paper on Calvinism and Arminianism

The description I'd heard 44-45 years ago was

We are neither Calvinists, nor are we Arminians. We are both Calvinists, and Arminians.


Stating that at CARM over the holidays in late 2022 got me suspended for a week.

https://lovechurch.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/calvinismarminianismandth.pdf

I don't think this one does. I've only been once, and I'll go tomorrow night too. I like the people in both of these churches.

Read the paper.
It's actually quite helpful.

 

[TomL]

Unfortunately the powerful doctrines of the apostles of the first century did not last to be taught in the Catholic and Orthodox denominations, the first church eras to continue to the end. Nor were they picked up in the Reformation. In fact, the Reformation didn't even pick up doctrines of the Catholics that were truth. You don't see truth again until Philadelphia by the filling of the Holy Spirit. This is why they will be kept from the martyrism of the Smyrna era. And the false gods of Pergamos were adopted by Thyatira, and is part of Thyatira to this day. Thyatira is the first of the seven to continue, then Protestants are still here. Steve, there are people with traits of the first three, but you don't see them as denominations like the last four.

Those seven church were churches which existed in the first century