Daniel and the Magi

[mikesw]

As we hit this Christmas season, whatever one's beliefs are about that, the topic of the magi comes up. One aspect that comes to mind for the timing is about Daniels mention of the 70 weeks of years in Dan 9:24. That duration definitely constrains when Jesus had to appear. Daniel also reveals this would be king of the Israel people. Certainly it is Daniel who would have shared the significance of this with those emperors' magi advisers.
The 70 weeks of years also would identify an approximate era of the time Christ would come. It is additionally interesting they knew this was the time of his birth not his death. But the timeline meant these astrologers would only look for a sign in the sky about that time period. (I suppose is some traveled earlier for a false sign, they just would not be recorded in history. lol )
This detail does not however describe the star or phenomenon nor if there is a scriptural prophecy or description anticipating that sign. I just am sharing the interesting point that came to mind.

 

[Quintus5]

What about this one? Numbers 24:17
KJV
I shall see him, but not now: I shall behold him, but not nigh: there shall come a Star out of Jacob, and a Sceptre shall rise out of Israel, and shall smite the corners of Moab, and destroy all the children of Sheth.

 

[mikesw]

What about this one? Numbers 24:17
KJV
I shall see him, but not now: I shall behold him, but not nigh: there shall come a Star out of Jacob, and a Sceptre shall rise out of Israel, and shall smite the corners of Moab, and destroy all the children of Sheth.

That is an interesting finding. The star can have multiple meanings. It refers in one sense to a ruler, as seen with the parallel to scepter. It also refers to heavenly lights.

 

[Complete]

As we hit this Christmas season, whatever one's beliefs are about that, the topic of the magi comes up. One aspect that comes to mind for the timing is about Daniels mention of the 70 weeks of years in Dan 9:24. That duration definitely constrains when Jesus had to appear. Daniel also reveals this would be king of the Israel people. Certainly it is Daniel who would have shared the significance of this with those emperors' magi advisers.
The 70 weeks of years also would identify an approximate era of the time Christ would come. It is additionally interesting they knew this was the time of his birth not his death. But the timeline meant these astrologers would only look for a sign in the sky about that time period. (I suppose is some travelled earlier for a false sign, they just would not be recorded in history. lol )
This detail does not however describe the star or phenomenon nor if there is a scriptural prophecy or description anticipating that sign. I just am sharing the interesting point that came to mind.

'Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people
and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression,
and to make an end of sins,
and to make reconciliation for iniquity,
and to bring in everlasting righteousness,
and to seal up the vision
and prophecy,
and to anoint the most Holy.'
(Dan 9:24)

Hello there, @mikesw,

The presence of a figure of speech called Polysyndeton: or 'many ands', in this verse: highlights each one of these points; and emphasises the need to treat each point as equally important; and take time to understand each one. for there is no conclusion to which they lead up, each is therefore complete in itself.

'Knowing this first,
that no prophecy of the scripture
is of any private interpretation.
For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man:
but holy men of God spake
as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.'
(2Pet. 1:20)

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[mikesw]

'Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people
and upon thy holy city,
to finish the transgression,
and to make an end of sins,
and to make reconciliation for iniquity,
and to bring in everlasting righteousness,
and to seal up the vision
and prophecy,
and to anoint the most Holy.'
(Dan 9:24)

Hello there, @mikesw,

The presence of a figure of speech called Polysyndeton: or 'many ands', in this verse: highlights each one of these points; and emphasises the need to treat each point as equally important; and take time to understand each one. for there is no conclusion to which they lead up, each is therefore complete in itself.

'Knowing this first,
that no prophecy of the scripture
is of any private interpretation.
For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man:
but holy men of God spake
as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.'
(2Pet. 1:20)

In Christ Jesus
Chris

Right. each of these things happened. I have no problem with that.

'Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people
and upon thy holy city,
to finish the transgression, -- John the Baptist told them to repent for the kingdom of God is at hand
and to make an end of sins, -- so the obedient would repent and end their sins
and to make reconciliation for iniquity, -- this was Jesus's death on the cross
and to bring in everlasting righteousness, -- through resurrection and the Holy Spirit they (and us) have eternal life
and to seal up the vision and prophecy, -- this was the completion of vision and prophecy that hand been made
and to anoint the most Holy -- this is of all who come to Christ who then are the temple of God

 

[Complete]

'Yea, whiles I was speaking in prayer,
even the man Gabriel,
whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning,
being caused to fly swiftly, touched me
about the time of the evening oblation.
And he informed me, and talked with me,
and said, O Daniel, I am now come forth
to give thee skill and understanding.
At the beginning of thy supplications
the commandment came forth,
and I am come to shew thee;
for thou art greatly beloved:
therefore understand the matter,
and consider the vision.'
(Dan 9:21-23)

Hello again, @mikesw,

I just warm to the gentleness and love expressed in the words leading up to Daniel 9:21-23 that you have highlighted. Telling Daniel how greatly he is loved. But then again I just love Daniel, for he honours God in both word and deed.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[mikesw]

'Yea, whiles I was speaking in prayer,
even the man Gabriel,
whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning,
being caused to fly swiftly, touched me
about the time of the evening oblation.
And he informed me, and talked with me,
and said, O Daniel, I am now come forth
to give thee skill and understanding.
At the beginning of thy supplications
the commandment came forth,
and I am come to shew thee;
for thou art greatly beloved:
therefore understand the matter,
and consider the vision.'
(Dan 9:21-23)

Hello again, @mikesw,

I just warm to the gentleness and love expressed in the words leading up to Daniel 9:21-23 that you have highlighted. Telling Daniel how greatly he is loved. But then again I just love Daniel, for he honours God in both word and deed.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Yep. very gracious words shared with in, especially after the fearsome visions. Thanks for noting those.

 

[Complete]

Right. each of these things happened. I have no problem with that.

'Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people
and upon thy holy city,
to finish the transgression, -- John the Baptist told them to repent for the kingdom of God is at hand
and to make an end of sins, -- so the obedient would repent and end their sins
and to make reconciliation for iniquity, -- this was Jesus's death on the cross
and to bring in everlasting righteousness, -- through resurrection and the Holy Spirit they (and us) have eternal life
and to seal up the vision and prophecy, -- this was the completion of vision and prophecy that hand been made
and to anoint the most Holy -- this is of all who come to Christ who then are the temple of God

'Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people
and upon thy holy city,
to finish the transgression,
and to make an end of sins,
and to make reconciliation for iniquity,
and to bring in everlasting righteousness,
and to seal up the vision
and prophecy,
and to anoint the most Holy.'
(Dan 9:24)

Hello again, @mikesw,

This prophecy concerns Daniel's People, Israel, and the City of Jerusalem.

Many believe that the seventy weeks of Daniel 9, makes week sixty-nine end at the crucifixion, leaving but one 'week' to be accounted for. This rules out the period covered by the Acts of the Apostles. Yet Israel was not laid aside ( temporarily) in unbelief at the crucifixion: but approximately 35-40 years later at Acts 28 ( 26-27): which is marked by the quotation from Isaiah 6:9-10, by Paul to the elders of the Jews in the diaspora, who rejected the witness concerning the person and work of the Lord Jesus Christ, which Paul had been ministering to them. It was then that salvation was sent to the Gentiles (Acts 28:28).

Another important fact concerning the computation of prophetic times, is that the periods during Israel's history, in which Israel is declared 'Loammi' or 'Not My People', are not taken into account in the computation of times. Israel's prophetic clock stops during those periods, and begins again when they are restored.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[mikesw]

'Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people
and upon thy holy city,
to finish the transgression,
and to make an end of sins,
and to make reconciliation for iniquity,
and to bring in everlasting righteousness,
and to seal up the vision
and prophecy,
and to anoint the most Holy.'
(Dan 9:24)

Hello again, @mikesw,

This prophecy concerns Daniel's People, Israel, and the City of Jerusalem.

Many believe that the seventy weeks of Daniel 9, makes week sixty-nine end at the crucifixion, leaving but one 'week' to be accounted for. This rules out the period covered by the Acts of the Apostles. Yet Israel was not laid aside ( temporarily) in unbelief at the crucifixion: but approximately 35-40 years later at Acts 28 ( 26-27): which is marked by the quotation from Isaiah 6:9-10, by Paul to the elders of the Jews in the diaspora, who rejected the witness concerning the person and work of the Lord Jesus Christ, which Paul had been ministering to them. It was then that salvation was sent to the Gentiles (Acts 28:28).

Another important fact concerning the computation of prophetic times, is that the periods during Israel's history, in which Israel is declared 'Loammi' or 'Not My People', are not taken into account in the computation of times. Israel's prophetic clock stops during those periods, and begins again when they are restored.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

The series of 3-4 articles (with the last two in one file) explains the seventy weeks of years:

https://biblereexamined.com/daniel1.pdf

https://biblereexamined.com/daniel2.pdf

https://biblereexamined.com/daniel3.pdf

The basic idea is that the seventy weeks of years does not include the years of the destruction of the city and temple. we can see that in the passage

verse 26 starts as "And after the sixty-two weeks, an anointed one shall be cut off and shall have nothing."

That is the death of Jesus. That is the end of what has to happen beyond the time of Jesus's death. Thus, what follows in Dan 26 does not have a specific day or hour in view. We know that further because Jesus said those details were only known by the Father. These events in the following text then happened within the generation that was mentioned by Jesus.

The verse continues:
"And the people of the prince who is to come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. Its end shall come with a flood, and to the end there shall be war. Desolations are decreed"

I'm doing the best from memory but the idea is best explained by those papers. Beyond the papers, the events surrounding the destruction of the city and temple were given a timeline within the succession of the four empires of Daniel, which ended with the Roman Empire. That is two time frames that work together to constrain the seventy weeks.

 

[mikesw]

Two additional confirmations occur of its fulfillment. The first is that Jesus essentially elaborated upon the prophecy of Dan 7-9 when sharing Matt 24, Luke 21, Mark 13 sequence. These end with the destruction of the temple and the city (even if the status of the city is not clearly stated). The second is that the city and temple were destroyed. These act as confirmation of Dan 9:24-27. The destruction came by the fourth empire of Daniel, which affirms the relevance of the progression of empires of Daniel 7-8. Furthermore, the lack of a fifth empire indicates there would be no more disciplining of Israel happening.