Rockson
Well-known member
;Correct. And Christians should never want to gravitate to a position that Pilate did when talking to Jesus, "What is TRUTH?" and giving up on it in despair.
Why there can be no gap between the 69th and 70th week
- Thread starter TomL
- Start date
Right one should never have a cavalier attitude toward truth
Bob Carabbio
Well-known member
Sure!! What the Bible and the HOLY SPIRIT tells you is TRUE.
What Denominational "theology" tells you is to be taken with a grain of salt.
Jesus never promised that the Baptist (Methodist/Catholic/Presbyterian/Assembly of God/etc.) church would speak the TRUTH - only that the HOLY SPIRIT WOULD. and that you could GO TO HIM for wisdom - as long as you go single-mindedly.
SteveB
Well-known member
Well then! Once again you're given the opportunity to wipe the dust off your feet, and wash your hands and walk away.
truly astounding that you actually ignore such.
this must be due to a seriously deep seated desperation to win the unwinnable.
yet your description failed to coherently detail it.
i explained that to you, yet you keep saying the same things over and over and over and over and over again, failing to recognize that you are literally demonstrating the literal definition of insanity.
why? Because i call BS on your descriptions, and instead of taking the time to understand and learn why i do so, you just blame me, claim I'm in denial?
You're miserably failing to successfully engage Tom!
you have turned my conversations into an argument that you must win no matter the cost.
as such, you are following the tactics of the atheists on CARM.
You haven't actually successfully demonstrated that the anointing of the Holy Spirit described in Isaiah 60 is in fact the same anointing descibed in Daniel 9.
The truly amazing thing is that you fail to grasp that.
Wow! Talking about desperation!
You're impressively mind boggling, at how far you will go to win.
Did you learn that in college, or over on CARM?
Perfect!
Guess what Tom.
You're clearly frustrated.
Your ongoing argumentation is clearly making you mad.
Your wisdom is turned backwards.
And your knowledge foolish.
So, your point is?
Ah, all this to say that you are calling Ezra and Cyrus liars.
thank you. It's sad that you need to do this.
"My" views allow them, and YHVH to remain honest, and coherent.
Further demonstrating:
You're clearly frustrated.
Your ongoing argumentation is clearly making you mad.
Your wisdom is turned backwards.
And your knowledge foolish.
so, you're saying that you actually need my comments to contradict you?
You're clearly frustrated.
Your ongoing argumentation is clearly making you mad.
Your wisdom is turned backwards.
And your knowledge foolish.
no. I don't need to do diddly squat except be white and die!
I choose to follow Jesus because he gives eternal life to those who believe him!
and?
You haven't actually successfully demonstrated that the anointing of the Holy Spirit described in Isaiah 60 is in fact the same anointing descibed in Daniel 9.
The truly amazing thing is that you fail to grasp that.
Really. So YHVH is lying in Ezekiel 36?
because it's pretty clear that the people of Israel described there are unbelieving.
come on Tom!
Get a grip here man!
I have a novel idea.
Do a word search on the phrase...
"know that I am"
I get 68 instances of this phrase.
Eze 6:7 KJV And the slain shall fall in the midst of you, and ye shall know that I am the LORD.
Eze 6:10 KJV And they shall know that I am the LORD, and that I have not said in vain that I would do this evil unto them.
Eze 6:13 KJV Then shall ye know that I am the LORD, when their slain men shall be among their idols round about their altars, upon every high hill, in all the tops of the mountains, and under every green tree, and under every thick oak, the place where they did offer sweet savour to all their idols.
This goes on for the rest of the book of Ezekiel.
It's quite interesting.
Apparently YHVH is still in covenant with Israel, even though they broke the covenant with him.
That is what Jeremiah 31:31-34 says.
Jer 31:31-37 WEB 31 “Behold, the days come,” says Yahweh, “that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah, 32 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, which covenant of mine they broke, although I was a husband to them,” says Yahweh. 33 “But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” says Yahweh: “I will put my law in their inward parts, and I will write it in their heart. I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 34 They will no longer each teach his neighbor, and every man teach his brother, saying, ‘Know Yahweh;’ for they will all know me, from their least to their greatest,” says Yahweh, “for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.”
What's even more awesome.... YHVH refuses to quit on Israel.
35 Yahweh, who gives the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, who stirs up the sea, so that its waves roar— Yahweh of Armies is his name, says: 36 “If these ordinances depart from before me,” says Yahweh, “then the offspring of Israel also will cease from being a nation before me forever.” 37 Yahweh says: “If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, then I will also cast off all the offspring of Israel for all that they have done,” says Yahweh.
So this BS you have that Israel is not in covenant with YHVH, you clearly fail to comprehend YHVH's Word to Abraham.
Even Paul discusses this.
Rom 11:28-29 WEB 28 Concerning the Good News, they are enemies for your sake. But concerning the election, they are beloved for the fathers’ sake. 29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
The present day existence of Israel is part of YHVH's plan.
Even ancient Israel in Egypt, up until Moses gave them the tablets, and sprinkled the blood of the covenant were outside the covenant. Exodus 24 (vs 8).
Once they broke the covenant, YHVH was still committed to them, and fulfilling his Word to Abraham, Issac, and Israel/Jacob.
Read the above.
No. It's entirely relevant.
You seem to think that you can disassemble the Bible into individual components to fit your ideas.
Hebrews 10 reiterated what David said of Jesus...
In the volume of the book it is written of me.
The entire Bible is about God fulfilling his Word to Abraham.
Gen 12:3 WEB I will bless those who bless you, and I will curse him who treats you with contempt. All the families of the earth will be blessed through you.”
Wake up Tom.
This is infinitely larger than anyone fully understands.
Bob Carabbio
Well-known member
So ONE "Theology" says that "Black is Black", and the next "Theology says that "Black is White", and BOTH "theologies" prove it "from the Scriptures - And I'm supposed to take EITHER seriously??
SteveB
Well-known member
That's not what I actually said.
come on C-lady.
read what I actually stated!
the book of Revelation is based on the old testament.
i provided several links to describe and explain this.
Revelation is 404 verses.
there are over 800 allusions to old testament material.
this means that for every verse, there are an average of 2 old testament references in each verse of Revelation.
you missed it.
ever examined the "Joshuaproject.net" site? How about the Voice of the Martyrs site?
Christianity by country - Wikipedia
So, the other 6 churches all perish?
Are you sure about this?
Please reread the 7 letters.
Where?
Rockson
Well-known member
Potentially yes!
One theology says you're saved as long as you seek to be a good person.
Another theology says you're saved hearing and receiving what Jesus did on the cross and it's not by works lest any man should boast.....so you're saying forget it you don't even have to think of these things. Nothing you have to get right and be right about? And what about the warning of false teachers and the exhortations to follow after those who have sound doctrine.....none of this matters? Bob dial back what you've said and just acknowledge you've misspoke. I'm convinced you truly don't believe what you've stated above.
Bob Carabbio
Well-known member
Based on what???
SteveB
Well-known member
Their own biases and preconceptions about you and your beliefs.
Rockson
Well-known member
Good grief Bob you've been on here talking about theological positions you agree with and disagree! How about your post here #1342 from the Hypostatic Union thread,
WE have a Human Nature, and are joined by the Holy Spirit whenever we're Born Again.
SO essentially EVERY CHRISTIAN has "two natures" The "OLD MAN", and the "Christ nature". Paul talks about that in Romans 7.
So you're talking theology Bob, THEOLOGY! Plus other things you say in other posts as well!
Rockson
Well-known member
My own biases?????
Look Steve are you just on here to throw out any insult to others just for the sake of throwing them out? Study the man's posts and tell me he at times isn't arguing for different theological positions! Look I'm trying to help the man by getting him back on track from saying something potentially dangerous for him to say that Bible truths don't matter! That doesn't go over well in heaven when one says such a thing. Consider being a part of the man's solution AND NOT a part of his problem. Trusting and hoping you'll give up you unjustified criticisms
SteveB
Well-known member
That's what it appears to me.
you're welcome to file a complaint with mgmt.
I'm just making an observation.
I think you're barking up the wrong tree.
trying to help....
I'm apparently not allowed to state the obvious over on CARM, so I'll see if I can do the same here.
with Bob, you're way outclassed here.
instead of "trying to help", slow down, dial it back and seek to actually understand.
people with Bob's extensive experience and knowledge of God's Word don't need help. From what I'm observing, he's playing you like a well-tuned fiddle.
You're literally outclassed and outgunned.
Step down.
Then change your attitude.
You really should learn.
I think Paul told Timothy to
1Ti 5:1 KJV Rebuke not an elder, but intreat him as a father; and the younger men as brethren;
I'm still waiting for you to answer my question I'd asked you in response to your post yesterday about the 1988 second coming theory.
Are you trying to avoid it?
Post in thread 'Why there can be no gap between the 69th and 70th week' https://berean-apologetics.communit...etween-the-69th-and-70th-week.1362/post-57700
Last edited:
Rockson
Well-known member
Why don't you stop trying to put me on the defensive about some other issue and just acknowledge you were out of line by implying I had bias in what I was saying to Bob, to help him.
But no I wasn't trying to avoid your post but I don't guarantee I'll answer every post anyone makes. And sometimes I answer them when there's a slow time on here and it may even be on here a week or a month. I don't see there's a need to have things put down in REAL TIME.
SteveB
Well-known member
Instead of letting yourself feel like you need to defend yourself, focus.
I've been acquainted with Bob dating back a good 11 years over on CARM.
you're seriously outclassed and outgunned.
It's been over 24 hours.
You have had rather curious discussion with Tom and Bob.
I figured you were smart enough to realize that Bob was playing you, but obviously I'm mistaken.
Why you decided to not respond to my response to your obvious gripe out something that occurred 43 to 38 years ago as though it happened in the past few months to years is rather curious.
So, stop justifying and just answer my response to you.
Rockson
Well-known member
First I'm not seeking to compete against him. I consider he is a precious brother in the Lord. And FYI I was over at CARM too for I guess a number of years and have known Bob there too.....perhaps just as long as you have and have talked to him numbers of times before.
Our friend has claimed theology is not important and has made light of it. I truly don't believe this reflects what he really believes FOR HIS BENEFIT.
Anyway having read through all your post and no offence but I think it's best that I just put you on ignore. I could be wrong and I'm not perfect myself but at least to me it seems you're just wanting to take delight in provoking people. If I'm right in that assessment I trust and hope you'll decide to change this way. Perhaps some time in the future I'll check back to see if you have. If I don't talk to you again though I sincerely do wish you all the best.
Sorry first you state I did not show how those things were fulfilled when i did
then you say it was not detailed
both are false
Well you failed to show why it was BS
You appealed only to modern day Israel which has nothing at all to do with the fulfillment of Christ's atonement in ther 70 weeks
Says the man who denied Christ was anointed
refuses to accept the fact God clearly stated Cyrus would say Jerusalem was to be rebuilt
Refuses the anointing of Christ as the revelation of the anointed one
You ignored no less than four lines of evidence that Chjrist was revealed as the anointed one at his baptism
And that before his entrance into Jerusalem he was already being hailed.
No from scripture you are ignoringThe truly amazing thing is that you fail to grasp that.
Wow! Talking about desperation!
You're impressively mind boggling, at how far you will go to win.
Did you learn that in college, or over on CARM?
Isaiah 44:24–45:13 (NASB 2020) — 24 This is what the LORD says, He who is your Redeemer, and the one who formed you from the womb: “I, the LORD, am the maker of all things, Stretching out the heavens by Myself And spreading out the earth alone, 25 Causing the omens of diviners to fail, Making fools of fortune-tellers; Causing wise men to turn back And making their knowledge ridiculous, 26 Confirming the word of His servant And carrying out the purpose of His messengers. It is I who says of Jerusalem, ‘She shall be inhabited!’ And of the cities of Judah, ‘They shall be built.’ And I will raise her ruins again. 27 “I am the One who says to the depth of the sea, ‘Dry up!’ And I will make your rivers dry up. 28 “It is I who says of Cyrus, ‘He is My shepherd, And he will carry out all My desire.’ And he says of Jerusalem, ‘She will be built,’ And of the temple, ‘Your foundation will be laid.’ ” 1 This is what the LORD says to Cyrus His anointed, Whom I have taken by the right hand, To subdue nations before him And to undo the weapons belt on the waist of kings; To open doors before him so that gates will not be shut: 2 “I will go before you and make the rough places smooth; I will shatter the doors of bronze and cut through their iron bars. 3 “I will give you the treasures of darkness And hidden wealth of secret places, So that you may know that it is I, The LORD, the God of Israel, who calls you by your name. 4 “For the sake of Jacob My servant, And Israel My chosen one, I have also called you by your name; I have given you a title of honor Though you have not known Me. 5 “I am the LORD, and there is no one else; There is no God except Me. I will arm you, though you have not known Me, 6 So that people may know from the rising to the setting of the sun That there is no one besides Me. I am the LORD, and there is no one else, 7 The One forming light and creating darkness, Causing well-being and creating disaster; I am the LORD who does all these things. 8 “Drip down, heavens, from above, And let the clouds pour down righteousness; Let the earth open up and salvation bear fruit, And righteousness sprout with it. I, the LORD, have created it. 9 “Woe to the one who quarrels with his Maker— A piece of pottery among the other earthenware pottery pieces! Will the clay say to the potter, ‘What are you doing?’ Or the thing you are making say, ‘He has no hands’? 10 “Woe to him who says to a father, ‘What are you fathering?’ Or to a woman, ‘To what are you giving birth?’ ” 11 This is what the LORD says, the Holy One of Israel and his Maker: “Ask Me about the things to come concerning My sons, And you shall commit to Me the work of My hands. 12 “It is I who made the earth, and created mankind upon it. I stretched out the heavens with My hands, And I ordained all their lights. 13 “I have stirred him in righteousness, And I will make all his ways smooth. He will build My city and let My exiles go free, Without any payment or reward,” says the LORD of armies.
LOL aimless rhetoric unrelated to fact or argument
Sorry but you do not appear to know what a contradiction is
Saying he was anointed to build God a house is not evidence against the evidence that God clearly stated Cyrus would issue the decree to rebuild Jerusalem,
but you clearly contradict what God states in Isaiah seen above.
So it is rather strange you repeat that worthless argument
With the wrong start point and the wrong revelation of the anointed one, your view is clearly erroneous
And that is why scripture should be carefully examined and upheld
SteveB
Well-known member
Looks otherwise from the perspective I have.
Based on the years of observation and interactions over there, I'd say that He's bemusingly disgusted by the level of discussion on this topic, and sees no reason to take it seriously. Thus, playing you like a well-tuned fiddle.
Had you actually understood his perspective, you'd be seeing that too.
yeah. You go right ahead and do that.
it makes it easier to withdraw from common sense reasoning.
see you in eternity.
then you can explain why what happened in the 80's at Calvary Chapel was such a problem and what your point was.
All this does is prove to me that you just wanted me to believe you, instead of having a valid reason to post it.
Which is exceedingly disappointing.
And yet you're the one who posted a provocative rant about faithful brothers' attempting to make sense out something the rest of the church historians, eschatologicalists, and theologians clearly struggled and balked at.
I.e., you had absolutely no point. You just thought you found a hook to succeed in manipulation.
If you're right... does this mean that you recognize that you could be totally and completely wrong, and will apologize?
Or is this why you're running away?
You know you're wrong and don't have the fortitude to stand as a man and admit it?
And what happens if I'm actually right?
Will you change your way?
Sounds like you're incapable of being wrong.
In which case, don't bother.
You'll still be blinded by your own errors.
All the best of what?
I'm seeking to experience the Grace of God in its fullest possible measure, in every aspect of my life.
Heb 13:9 WEB Don’t be carried away by various and strange teachings, for it is good that the heart be established by grace, not by foods, through which those who were so occupied were not benefited.
Tit 2:11-15 WEB 11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men, 12 instructing us to the intent that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we would live soberly, righteously, and godly in this present age; 13 looking for the blessed hope and appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, 14 who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity and purify for himself a people for his own possession, zealous for good works. 15 Say these things and exhort and reprove with all authority. Let no one despise you.
And apparently, according to verse 15, I'm supposed to be incredibly anal about making sure I do it right, and then protect it with all diligence.
It's clearly an imperative that we should be established by Grace.
Paul further stated in Ephesians 4
Eph 4:11-16 WEB 11 He gave some to be apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, shepherds and teachers; 12 for the perfecting of the saints, to the work of serving, to the building up of the body of Christ, 13 until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a full grown man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ, 14 that we may no longer be children, tossed back and forth and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in craftiness, after the wiles of error; 15 but speaking truth in love, we may grow up in all things into him who is the head, Christ, 16 from whom all the body, being fitted and knit together through that which every joint supplies, according to the working in measure of each individual part, makes the body increase to the building up of itself in love.
So, I'm thinking that God's Grace, and his Love is infinitely better.
So, I'll give you what YHVH is giving me and my fellow Jesus followers.
Num 6:24-26 WEB 24 ‘Yahweh bless you, and keep you. 25 Yahweh make his face to shine on you, and be gracious to you. 26 Yahweh lift up his face toward you, and give you peace.’
May you grow in the grace and knowledge of Jesus.
civic
Well-known member
It's my favorite topic to study- Theo(God) ology ( the study of ). Theology the study of God.
One of my all-time favorite books ever written was by AW Tozer- The pursuit of God followed by the Knowledge of the Holy.
SteveB
Well-known member
Congratulations!
aimless rhetoric unrelated to fact or argument
couldn't have said it any better.
All your posts are aimless rhetoric, unrelated to fact. I'd say argument, but since you only want to win an argument, so you can have another notch on your belt, I'm thinking that's enough.
So, since I didn't join this discussion to win an argument and that's the only thing you do want, let's make it easy for you.
You win.
Congratulations.
Truth is irrelevant and you've not actually influenced anyone.
But, you enjoy your win.
Now, if you'll excuse me I have some more enjoyable activities to engage in.
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