Why I don’t believe or accept the trinity.

"New birth" seems to be something Pentecostals say. Is that what your religion is and are you of the Oneness variety?
The new birth and the gospel.


Born of Water John 3


John 3:1-7. Lets look at the context of Jesus interaction with Nicodemus. All human beings have experienced natural birth on earth, if they expect to go to heaven, they must experience a supernatural spiritual birth from above. Nicodemus was a well educated religious leader who did not understand what the Saviour was talking about. Jesus was speaking about a spiritual birth, but Nicodemus thought of a physical birth.

The situation is no different today When you talk with people about being born again, they often begin to discuss their family's religious heritage, their church membership, religious ceremonies like baptism etc....Jesus being a patient teacher picked up on Nicodemus' words and further explained the new birth. To be "born of water" is to be born physically ("enter a second time into his mother's womb") but to be born again means to be born of the Spirit. Just as there are two parents for physical birth, so there are two for spiritual birth: the Spirit of God (John 3:5) and the Word of God (James 1:18; 1 Peter 1:23-25). The Spirit of God takes the Word of God and, when the sinner believes, imparts the life of God.Jesus was not teaching that the new birth comes through water baptism. In the NT baptism is connected with death, not birth and no amount of physical water can cause a spiritual change in a person.

The emphasis in John 3:14-21 is on believing, because salvation comes through faith. John 1:12-13 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, 13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

Understanding Jesus teaching in John 3 on Born Again !

John 3:3 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.”

4 “How can someone be born when they are old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!”
5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. 6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. 7 You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”
9 “How can this be?” Nicodemus asked
10 “You are Israel’s teacher,” said Jesus, “and do you not understand these things?

So lets go through this point by point.

1- to enter the kingdom of God a person must be born again( a 2nd time)
2- flesh gives birth to flesh ( 1st birth )
3- the Spirit gives birth to spirit( 2nd birth )
4- the wind(spirit) blows wherever IT pleases
5- we hear the sound of the wind but do not know where it is coming from or going to
6- the same with the Spirit( we see its effects but not its coming or going)
7- the spirit is the same as the wind- it does as it pleases and we see its effects in both the natural(wind) and supernatural ( spirit)
8- God causes us to be born again
9- the new birth is compared to the physical birth just as the wind is compared to the spirits work
10- in the new birth God is the Active One and the one who causes the birth but we must believe to be saved, regenerated.

There can be no other reading into the text but what has been outlined in the 10 points. Those 10 points are directly from the text.

Now The PARALLELS and CONTRASTS Jesus makes in the passage are the following 10 by reading through and observing the passage :

1- the 2 births
2- the wind and the spirit
3- flesh and the spirit
4- water and spirit
5- earthly and heavenly things
6- effects of both the wind and spirit
7- the seen with the unseen
8- the physical with the supernatural
9- knowing and not knowing, understanding and not understanding
10- entering the kingdom and not entering the kingdom, believing and not believing

summary- just as flesh gives birth to flesh( 1st birth as a person) so to does the Spirit give birth to the spirit(the new birth- born again, regeneration, born of the spirit, spiritual birth, born of God etc....... are all synonyms)

Ezekiel 18 declares : “a NEW SPIRIT I WILL (future) put WITHIN them…” These predictions mean that even Ezekiel was not regenerated, nor was any man prior to Ezekiel. And Ezekiel lived near the end of the OT time period. Scripture talks about 2 kinds of life. Physical and Spiritual. What other “kind of life” does the Bible talk about other than the life we are given in the flesh when we are born of the flesh, and eternal life which we are given when we are born of the Spirit? There is no other “kind of life” taught about in the Bible. When a man is born of the eternal Spirit, by the eternal Word of God, he is given eternal life. A man is regenerated when He is made alive with Jesus Christ (Eph. 2:5). Can a man be “made alive with Jesus Christ” apart from having Jesus Christ dwelling in him? Also, Paul explicitly states, “You are not in the flesh but in the Spirit IF THE SPIRIT OF GOD DWELL IN YOU. And if any man HAVE NOT THE SPIRIT OF CHRIST HE IS NONE OF HIS.” (Rom. 8:9). We are born again THROUGH THE RESURRECTION OF JESUS CHRIST FROM THE DEAD (1Peter 1:3). Can a man be born again through the resurrection of Jesus Christ before Jesus Christ actually rose again from the dead? No so Jesus in John 3 was not talking about spiritual life in the OT but the promise of the Spirit that would come at Pentecost when His spirit would be poured out upon all who believe in Him and become born again children of God from the preaching of the gospel and receiving Him as Lord.

1 Peter 1:3
Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

1 Peter 1:23
For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.

James 1:18
He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we would be a kind of firstfruits of His creation.

Titus 3:5
He saved us, not by the righteous deeds we had done, but according to His mercy, through the washing of new birth and renewal by the Holy Spirit

John 1:12-13
Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believe in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God

No one was born again until Pentecost
period. The disciples were not born again until Pentecost. Jesus taught and told them to tarry until Pentecost when the Holy Spirit would be with them and IN THEM. Not before Pentecost. It was at that time when they would be transformed inwardly by the power of the Holy Spirit working in them and through them. As Jesus told them it is better for you that I go away and send the Helper/Comforter who would lead them and guide them into all truth and bring to them remembrance of everything he had taught them. Until Pentecost they were still in hiding and fearful, carnal and in the flesh, not in the Spirit.

The disciples did not understand the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus which is the gospel. They did not believe it until they physically saw Jesus Resurrected from the dead.

Matthew 16:8-11
Aware of their discussion, Jesus asked, “You of little faith, why are you talking among yourselves about having no bread? 9 Do you still not understand? Don’t you remember the five loaves for the five thousand, and how many basketfuls you gathered? 10 Or the seven loaves for the four thousand, and how many basketfuls you gathered? 11 How is it you don’t understand that I was not talking to you about bread?

Mark 7:18
And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, itcannot defile him;

Mark 8:31-33
He then began to teach them that the Son of Man must suffer many things and be rejected by the elders, the chief priests and the teachers of the law, and that he must be killed and after three days rise again. 32 He spoke plainly about this, and Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him. 33 But when Jesus turned and looked at his disciples, he rebuked Peter. “Get behind me, Satan!” he said. “You do not have in mind the concerns of God, but merely human concerns.”

Luke 9:43-45
While everyone was marveling at all that Jesus did, he said to his disciples, 44 “Listen carefully to what I am about to tell you: The Son of Man is going to be delivered into the hands of men.” 45 But they did not understand what this meant. It was hidden from them, so that they did not grasp it, and they were afraid to ask him about it.

Jesus predicts His death a 3rd time

Luke 18:31-34

Jesus took the Twelve aside and told them, “We are going up to Jerusalem, and everything that is written by the prophets about the Son of Man will be fulfilled. 32 He will be delivered over to the Gentiles. They will mock him, insult him and spit on him; 33 they will flog him and kill him. On the third day he will rise again.” 34 The disciples did not understand any of this. Its meaning was hidden from them, and they did not know what he was talking about.


Luke 24:25-26

He said to them, “How foolish you are, and how slow to believe all that the prophets have spoken! 26 Did not the Messiah have to suffer these things and then enter his glory?

John 7:39
By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive. Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified.

John 12:16
At first His disciples did not understand these things, but after Jesus was glorified they remembered what had been done to Him, and they realized that these very things had also been written about Him.

John 13
Jesus replied, “You do not realize now what I am doing, but later you will understand…. I am telling you now before it happens, so that when it does happen you will believe that I am who I am.”

Jesus promised the disciples He would bring to their remembrance when Pentecost came and the Holy Spirit would be in them and guide them into all truth.

John 14:26
But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you

John 16:7
"It is expedient for you that I go away; for if I go not away the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart I will send him unto you."

John 16:13
But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.

hope this helps !!!
 
The new birth and the gospel.


Born of Water John 3


John 3:1-7. Lets look at the context of Jesus interaction with Nicodemus. All human beings have experienced natural birth on earth, if they expect to go to heaven, they must experience a supernatural spiritual birth from above. Nicodemus was a well educated religious leader who did not understand what the Saviour was talking about. Jesus was speaking about a spiritual birth, but Nicodemus thought of a physical birth.

The situation is no different today When you talk with people about being born again, they often begin to discuss their family's religious heritage, their church membership, religious ceremonies like baptism etc....Jesus being a patient teacher picked up on Nicodemus' words and further explained the new birth. To be "born of water" is to be born physically ("enter a second time into his mother's womb") but to be born again means to be born of the Spirit. Just as there are two parents for physical birth, so there are two for spiritual birth: the Spirit of God (John 3:5) and the Word of God (James 1:18; 1 Peter 1:23-25). The Spirit of God takes the Word of God and, when the sinner believes, imparts the life of God.Jesus was not teaching that the new birth comes through water baptism. In the NT baptism is connected with death, not birth and no amount of physical water can cause a spiritual change in a person.

The emphasis in John 3:14-21 is on believing, because salvation comes through faith. John 1:12-13 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, 13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

Understanding Jesus teaching in John 3 on Born Again !

John 3:3 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.”

4 “How can someone be born when they are old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!”
5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. 6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. 7 You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”
9 “How can this be?” Nicodemus asked
10 “You are Israel’s teacher,” said Jesus, “and do you not understand these things?

So lets go through this point by point.

1- to enter the kingdom of God a person must be born again( a 2nd time)
2- flesh gives birth to flesh ( 1st birth )
3- the Spirit gives birth to spirit( 2nd birth )
4- the wind(spirit) blows wherever IT pleases
5- we hear the sound of the wind but do not know where it is coming from or going to
6- the same with the Spirit( we see its effects but not its coming or going)
7- the spirit is the same as the wind- it does as it pleases and we see its effects in both the natural(wind) and supernatural ( spirit)
8- God causes us to be born again
9- the new birth is compared to the physical birth just as the wind is compared to the spirits work
10- in the new birth God is the Active One and the one who causes the birth but we must believe to be saved, regenerated.

There can be no other reading into the text but what has been outlined in the 10 points. Those 10 points are directly from the text.

Now The PARALLELS and CONTRASTS Jesus makes in the passage are the following 10 by reading through and observing the passage :

1- the 2 births
2- the wind and the spirit
3- flesh and the spirit
4- water and spirit
5- earthly and heavenly things
6- effects of both the wind and spirit
7- the seen with the unseen
8- the physical with the supernatural
9- knowing and not knowing, understanding and not understanding
10- entering the kingdom and not entering the kingdom, believing and not believing

summary- just as flesh gives birth to flesh( 1st birth as a person) so to does the Spirit give birth to the spirit(the new birth- born again, regeneration, born of the spirit, spiritual birth, born of God etc....... are all synonyms)

Ezekiel 18 declares : “a NEW SPIRIT I WILL (future) put WITHIN them…” These predictions mean that even Ezekiel was not regenerated, nor was any man prior to Ezekiel. And Ezekiel lived near the end of the OT time period. Scripture talks about 2 kinds of life. Physical and Spiritual. What other “kind of life” does the Bible talk about other than the life we are given in the flesh when we are born of the flesh, and eternal life which we are given when we are born of the Spirit? There is no other “kind of life” taught about in the Bible. When a man is born of the eternal Spirit, by the eternal Word of God, he is given eternal life. A man is regenerated when He is made alive with Jesus Christ (Eph. 2:5). Can a man be “made alive with Jesus Christ” apart from having Jesus Christ dwelling in him? Also, Paul explicitly states, “You are not in the flesh but in the Spirit IF THE SPIRIT OF GOD DWELL IN YOU. And if any man HAVE NOT THE SPIRIT OF CHRIST HE IS NONE OF HIS.” (Rom. 8:9). We are born again THROUGH THE RESURRECTION OF JESUS CHRIST FROM THE DEAD (1Peter 1:3). Can a man be born again through the resurrection of Jesus Christ before Jesus Christ actually rose again from the dead? No so Jesus in John 3 was not talking about spiritual life in the OT but the promise of the Spirit that would come at Pentecost when His spirit would be poured out upon all who believe in Him and become born again children of God from the preaching of the gospel and receiving Him as Lord.

1 Peter 1:3
Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

1 Peter 1:23
For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.

James 1:18
He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we would be a kind of firstfruits of His creation.

Titus 3:5
He saved us, not by the righteous deeds we had done, but according to His mercy, through the washing of new birth and renewal by the Holy Spirit

John 1:12-13
Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believe in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God

No one was born again until Pentecost
period. The disciples were not born again until Pentecost. Jesus taught and told them to tarry until Pentecost when the Holy Spirit would be with them and IN THEM. Not before Pentecost. It was at that time when they would be transformed inwardly by the power of the Holy Spirit working in them and through them. As Jesus told them it is better for you that I go away and send the Helper/Comforter who would lead them and guide them into all truth and bring to them remembrance of everything he had taught them. Until Pentecost they were still in hiding and fearful, carnal and in the flesh, not in the Spirit.

The disciples did not understand the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus which is the gospel. They did not believe it until they physically saw Jesus Resurrected from the dead.

Matthew 16:8-11
Aware of their discussion, Jesus asked, “You of little faith, why are you talking among yourselves about having no bread? 9 Do you still not understand? Don’t you remember the five loaves for the five thousand, and how many basketfuls you gathered? 10 Or the seven loaves for the four thousand, and how many basketfuls you gathered? 11 How is it you don’t understand that I was not talking to you about bread?

Mark 7:18
And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, itcannot defile him;

Mark 8:31-33
He then began to teach them that the Son of Man must suffer many things and be rejected by the elders, the chief priests and the teachers of the law, and that he must be killed and after three days rise again. 32 He spoke plainly about this, and Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him. 33 But when Jesus turned and looked at his disciples, he rebuked Peter. “Get behind me, Satan!” he said. “You do not have in mind the concerns of God, but merely human concerns.”

Luke 9:43-45
While everyone was marveling at all that Jesus did, he said to his disciples, 44 “Listen carefully to what I am about to tell you: The Son of Man is going to be delivered into the hands of men.” 45 But they did not understand what this meant. It was hidden from them, so that they did not grasp it, and they were afraid to ask him about it.

Jesus predicts His death a 3rd time

Luke 18:31-34

Jesus took the Twelve aside and told them, “We are going up to Jerusalem, and everything that is written by the prophets about the Son of Man will be fulfilled. 32 He will be delivered over to the Gentiles. They will mock him, insult him and spit on him; 33 they will flog him and kill him. On the third day he will rise again.” 34 The disciples did not understand any of this. Its meaning was hidden from them, and they did not know what he was talking about.


Luke 24:25-26

He said to them, “How foolish you are, and how slow to believe all that the prophets have spoken! 26 Did not the Messiah have to suffer these things and then enter his glory?

John 7:39
By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive. Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified.

John 12:16
At first His disciples did not understand these things, but after Jesus was glorified they remembered what had been done to Him, and they realized that these very things had also been written about Him.

John 13
Jesus replied, “You do not realize now what I am doing, but later you will understand…. I am telling you now before it happens, so that when it does happen you will believe that I am who I am.”

Jesus promised the disciples He would bring to their remembrance when Pentecost came and the Holy Spirit would be in them and guide them into all truth.

John 14:26
But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you

John 16:7
"It is expedient for you that I go away; for if I go not away the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart I will send him unto you."

John 16:13
But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.

hope this helps !!!
There is much to disagree with here. At least you didn't mention tongues being required for salvation, but is that something you believe?

And did you notice that nothing in Peter's sermon in Acts 2 mentioned anything about believing Jesus is God? Peter called Jesus a man.

Acts 2
22Men of Israel, listen to this message: Jesus of Nazareth was a man certified by God to you by miracles, wonders, and signs, which God did among you through Him, as you yourselves know.
 
There is much to disagree with here. At least you didn't mention tongues being required for salvation, but is that something you believe?

And did you notice that nothing in Peter's sermon in Acts 2 mentioned anything about believing Jesus is God? Peter called Jesus a man.

Acts 2
22Men of Israel, listen to this message: Jesus of Nazareth was a man certified by God to you by miracles, wonders, and signs, which God did among you through Him, as you yourselves know.
Personally I'm a cessationist if you know what that means. Even in the N.T. it wasn't a requirement but a gift. And everyone has different gifts from the Holy Spirit to build up the body of Christ.
 
It’s easy to identify who is speaking / posting by the power and insight from the Holy Spirit and who is not such as @Studyman and @Runningman.

They do not glorify Jesus above all and do not bring Him praise or glorify to Him. They refuse to glorify the Son. This is a litmus test to tell who is being led by the Holy Spirit and who is being guided by the flesh, carnal mind apart from the Spirit. They dishonor the Son.

Rejecting the very Words of the Christ, in order to exalt the image of God your Catholic mother created in the likeness of some random longhaired handsome man, Dishonors the Son. Rejecting the Commandments, Statutes and Judgments of the God and Father of the Lord's Christ, dishonors both the Father and the Son who offered Himself to provide you with a chance to, as it is written;

Eph. 4: 22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; 23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; 24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created "in righteousness and true holiness".

Rejecting the Father and His Righteousness, "in Christ's Name", didn't work for those Christians in Matt. 7. I'm not sure who convinced you that you can live the same lifestyle, and not be treated the same way by Jesus.


Sanctify them in TRUTH- THY WORD is TRUTH. The Word of God is Truth. When the Comforter ( Holy Spirit ) comes He will guide you into all truth- Gods word- the TRUTH. The Holy Spirit ALWAYS points a believer To Christ alone.

John 6: 44 No man can come to me, "except the Father" which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me. 46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father. 47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life. 48 I am that bread of life.

You work to divide Christ from His Father. You should be ashamed of yourself.

So from Jesus own words- the TRUTH you do not testify to the Son so I know you do not speak from the Spirit since you do not glorify the Son as Jesus promised the Holy Spirit would do. You only see the Father worthy of glory, honor, praise and worship. The Holy Spirit honors the Son. He points people to the Son, not the Father.

You have your opinions of others who don't bow down to your specific adopted religious business. Calvinists, Pharisees, etc., are no different than you. The Jesus "of the Bible" said if I became a "doer" of His Sayings, and not a hearer only like you, that my house will stand. Only a fool would turn away from the God and Father of the Lord's Christ that the Jesus "of the Bible" says to know "Is Eternal Life". This Jesus saw you coming and prepared me so that I might stand. He said you wouldn't like me for adopting His "Way of Life".

Eph. 6: 13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

John 15:26
New King James Version
“But when the Helper comes, whom I shall send to you "from the Father", the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify of Me.

John 10: 36 Say ye of him, whom "the Father" hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, "I am the Son of God?"

Yes, the Holy Spirit from the God and Father of the Lord's Christ, testifies of His Son, the "Jesus of the Bible", who HE sent. My Savior is Truly the Son of God, my Salvation, and is advocating between me and His Father even now. And for this I am eternally grateful.

English Standard Version
“But when the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth, who proceeds from the Father, he will bear witness about me.

Matt. 3: 17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, "This is my beloved Son", in whom I am well pleased.

In your religion, would this voice not be the Holy Spirit? And if it is, why do you preach to others that the Jesus "of the Bible" IS NOT "the Son" of God, but God Himself?

John 16:13-15
But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. 14 He will glorify me because it is from me that he will receive what he will make known to you. 15 All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will receive from me what "he will make known to you.”

John 17: 1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify "thy Son", that "thy Son" also may glorify thee:

2 As "thou hast given him power" over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many "as thou hast given him".

3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, "and" Jesus Christ, whom "thou hast sent".

4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which "thou gavest me to do".

5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory "which I had with thee" before the world was.

1 Corinthians 12:1-3
Now about the gifts of the Spirit, brothers and sisters, I do not want you to be uninformed. 2 You know that when you were pagans, somehow or other you were influenced and led astray to mute idols. 3 Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.

Matt. 7: 21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied "in thy name"? and "in thy name" have cast out devils? and "in thy name" done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Every verse you posted, exposes your bias against the God and Father of the Lord's Christ, and against the Jesus "of the Bible".

Honoring Christ with your lips is popular, and a great marketing strategy for the religious sects and businesses of this world as they compete for butts to fill the seats of their manmade shrines of worship.

But believing God and His Son, the Jesus "of the Bible", must include being a "Doer" of His Sayings, not a hearer only.

At least this is what the Jesus "of the Bible" teaches. And I believe in this Jesus, not "another Jesus" promoted by the religions of this world.
 
Rejecting the very Words of the Christ, in order to exalt the image of God your Catholic mother created in the likeness of some random longhaired handsome man, Dishonors the Son. Rejecting the Commandments, Statutes and Judgments of the God and Father of the Lord's Christ, dishonors both the Father and the Son who offered Himself to provide you with a chance to, as it is written;

Eph. 4: 22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; 23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; 24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created "in righteousness and true holiness".

Rejecting the Father and His Righteousness, "in Christ's Name", didn't work for those Christians in Matt. 7. I'm not sure who convinced you that you can live the same lifestyle, and not be treated the same way by Jesus.




John 6: 44 No man can come to me, "except the Father" which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me. 46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father. 47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life. 48 I am that bread of life.

You work to divide Christ from His Father. You should be ashamed of yourself.



You have your opinions of others who don't bow down to your specific adopted religious business. Calvinists, Pharisees, etc., are no different than you. The Jesus "of the Bible" said if I became a "doer" of His Sayings, and not a hearer only like you, that my house will stand. Only a fool would turn away from the God and Father of the Lord's Christ that the Jesus "of the Bible" says to know "Is Eternal Life". This Jesus saw you coming and prepared me so that I might stand. He said you wouldn't like me for adopting His "Way of Life".

Eph. 6: 13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.



John 10: 36 Say ye of him, whom "the Father" hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, "I am the Son of God?"

Yes, the Holy Spirit from the God and Father of the Lord's Christ, testifies of His Son, the "Jesus of the Bible", who HE sent. My Savior is Truly the Son of God, my Salvation, and is advocating between me and His Father even now. And for this I am eternally grateful.



Matt. 3: 17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, "This is my beloved Son", in whom I am well pleased.

In your religion, would this voice not be the Holy Spirit? And if it is, why do you preach to others that the Jesus "of the Bible" IS NOT "the Son" of God, but God Himself?



John 17: 1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify "thy Son", that "thy Son" also may glorify thee:

2 As "thou hast given him power" over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many "as thou hast given him".

3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, "and" Jesus Christ, whom "thou hast sent".

4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which "thou gavest me to do".

5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory "which I had with thee" before the world was.



Matt. 7: 21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied "in thy name"? and "in thy name" have cast out devils? and "in thy name" done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Every verse you posted, exposes your bias against the God and Father of the Lord's Christ, and against the Jesus "of the Bible".

Honoring Christ with your lips is popular, and a great marketing strategy for the religious sects and businesses of this world as they compete for butts to fill the seats of their manmade shrines of worship.

But believing God and His Son, the Jesus "of the Bible", must include being a "Doer" of His Sayings, not a hearer only.

At least this is what the Jesus "of the Bible" teaches. And I believe in this Jesus, not "another Jesus" promoted by the religions of this world.
It's nice to know you are a fatalist/determinist and that you read the Bible through those rose colored glasses. You promote a false gospel and christ and a works based salvation that Paul says is ACCURSED in Galatians 1:6-9.

hope this helps !!!
 
The disciples did not understand the death, burial and resurrection of Christ until after His Resurrection when they were born again. This proves your view of the new birth is wrong in John 3.

Zacharias understood the death, burial and resurrection of Christ. Abraham understood the death, burial and resurrection of Christ. Simeon understood the death, burial and resurrection of Christ. Truly these men were "Born again". And yet you preach to the world that they were not. This is why the Jesus "of the Bible" warned specifically about men to call Him Lord, Lord, and yet live in outright rejection of God's Statutes, Judgments and Commandments of God, because you preach for doctrines, the commandments of men, and you full well transgress the Commandments of God, that you might live by your own religious traditions.

Truly there is nothing new under the sun.
 
Zacharias understood the death, burial and resurrection of Christ. Abraham understood the death, burial and resurrection of Christ. Simeon understood the death, burial and resurrection of Christ. Truly these men were "Born again". And yet you preach to the world that they were not. This is why the Jesus "of the Bible" warned specifically about men to call Him Lord, Lord, and yet live in outright rejection of God's Statutes, Judgments and Commandments of God, because you preach for doctrines, the commandments of men, and you full well transgress the Commandments of God, that you might live by your own religious traditions.

Truly there is nothing new under the sun.
the old bait and switch again- I'm talking about the disciples/Apostles
 
It's nice to know you are a fatalist/determinist and that you read the Bible through those rose colored glasses. You promote a false gospel and christ and a works based salvation that Paul says is ACCURSED in Galatians 1:6-9.

According to you, EVERYONE who doesn't bow down to your specific adopted religious sect, is promoting a false gospel. The Calvinists are the same as you and promote the same philosophy.

God's Word promotes a "works based salvation". Paul is speaking to you in Romans 2.

Rom. 2: 5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart "treasurest up unto thyself wrath" against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;

You judge anyone who believes in the Righteous Judgments of God, as a fatalist/determinist/legalists/Judaizers and your mission here on this forum is to turn men away from the Righteous Judgments of God. But Paul doesn't promote your false gospel. Perhaps you might consider all of his words, and not just a few sentences that you can twist to exalt yourself above those with who believe what is written over your adopted religious philosophy.


6 Who will render to every man "according to his deeds:" (Works based)

7 To them "who by patient continuance in well doing" (Works based) seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, "but obey unrighteousness", (Works based) indignation and wrath,

9 Tribulation and anguish, upon "every soul of man" that "doeth" evil, (Works based) of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

10 But glory, honour, and peace, to "every man" that "worketh" good, (Works based) to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

I could show you pages of Holy Scriptures which say the same thing. But you will not be persuaded, so why bother. I know you will not be persuaded, because the Jesus "of the bible" told me.

Luke 16: 29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.

30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.

31 And he said unto him, If they "hear not Moses and the prophets", neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
 
John 4 (KJV)
23But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. 24God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in TRUTH.
Correct, and I Cannot "worship Him In Truth" by Denying All of The Following Plain And Clear
TRUTHful Passages Of His Inerrant Word Of Truth, eh?:

Why The Triune GodHead Is Correct!

Amen.
 
the old bait and switch again- I'm talking about the disciples/Apostles

The Apostles and Disciples, just like Abraham and Zacharias, was given the Holy Spirit when they Obeyed God. They partook of the Lord's Feast, Passover, and then observed the Holy Feast of Unleavened bread, then obediently counted the days so as to be Gathered together on Feast of Weeks, AKA, Pentecost.

You wouldn't understand.
 
Personally I'm a cessationist if you know what that means. Even in the N.T. it wasn't a requirement but a gift. And everyone has different gifts from the Holy Spirit to build up the body of Christ.
Yes, there are different gifts for different people. I wouldn't be a Christian if the gifts had stopped.
 
Correct, and I Cannot "worship Him In Truth" by Denying All of The Following Plain And Clear
TRUTHful Passages Of His Inerrant Word Of Truth, eh?:

Why The Triune GodHead Is Correct!

Amen.
Nothing in Scripture directly calls Jesus God. Some of the "proofs" you posted in your thread are simply semantics, misunderstanding the grammar, or taking it out of context. The bottom line is John 17:3 says the Father is the "only" true God. Either that's true or Jesus was wrong. I believe you would do well to, at the minimum, rethink Trinitarianism. It isn't adequate to explain who God is.
 
The Apostles and Disciples, just like Abraham and Zacharias, was given the Holy Spirit when they Obeyed God. They partook of the Lord's Feast, Passover, and then observed the Holy Feast of Unleavened bread, then obediently counted the days so as to be Gathered together on Feast of Weeks, AKA, Pentecost.

You wouldn't understand.
no those you mentioned were not the 12 apostles/disciples-

nice try dodging it again
 
The new birth and the gospel.


Born of Water John 3


John 3:1-7. Lets look at the context of Jesus interaction with Nicodemus. All human beings have experienced natural birth on earth, if they expect to go to heaven, they must experience a supernatural spiritual birth from above. Nicodemus was a well educated religious leader who did not understand what the Saviour was talking about. Jesus was speaking about a spiritual birth, but Nicodemus thought of a physical birth.

The situation is no different today When you talk with people about being born again, they often begin to discuss their family's religious heritage, their church membership, religious ceremonies like baptism etc....Jesus being a patient teacher picked up on Nicodemus' words and further explained the new birth. To be "born of water" is to be born physically ("enter a second time into his mother's womb") but to be born again means to be born of the Spirit. Just as there are two parents for physical birth, so there are two for spiritual birth: the Spirit of God (John 3:5) and the Word of God (James 1:18; 1 Peter 1:23-25). The Spirit of God takes the Word of God and, when the sinner believes, imparts the life of God.Jesus was not teaching that the new birth comes through water baptism. In the NT baptism is connected with death, not birth and no amount of physical water can cause a spiritual change in a person.

The emphasis in John 3:14-21 is on believing, because salvation comes through faith. John 1:12-13 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, 13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

Understanding Jesus teaching in John 3 on Born Again !

John 3:3 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.”

4 “How can someone be born when they are old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!”
5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. 6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. 7 You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”
9 “How can this be?” Nicodemus asked
10 “You are Israel’s teacher,” said Jesus, “and do you not understand these things?

So lets go through this point by point.

1- to enter the kingdom of God a person must be born again( a 2nd time)
2- flesh gives birth to flesh ( 1st birth )
3- the Spirit gives birth to spirit( 2nd birth )
4- the wind(spirit) blows wherever IT pleases
5- we hear the sound of the wind but do not know where it is coming from or going to
6- the same with the Spirit( we see its effects but not its coming or going)
7- the spirit is the same as the wind- it does as it pleases and we see its effects in both the natural(wind) and supernatural ( spirit)
8- God causes us to be born again
9- the new birth is compared to the physical birth just as the wind is compared to the spirits work
10- in the new birth God is the Active One and the one who causes the birth but we must believe to be saved, regenerated.

There can be no other reading into the text but what has been outlined in the 10 points. Those 10 points are directly from the text.

Now The PARALLELS and CONTRASTS Jesus makes in the passage are the following 10 by reading through and observing the passage :

1- the 2 births
2- the wind and the spirit
3- flesh and the spirit
4- water and spirit
5- earthly and heavenly things
6- effects of both the wind and spirit
7- the seen with the unseen
8- the physical with the supernatural
9- knowing and not knowing, understanding and not understanding
10- entering the kingdom and not entering the kingdom, believing and not believing

summary- just as flesh gives birth to flesh( 1st birth as a person) so to does the Spirit give birth to the spirit(the new birth- born again, regeneration, born of the spirit, spiritual birth, born of God etc....... are all synonyms)

Ezekiel 18 declares : “a NEW SPIRIT I WILL (future) put WITHIN them…” These predictions mean that even Ezekiel was not regenerated, nor was any man prior to Ezekiel. And Ezekiel lived near the end of the OT time period. Scripture talks about 2 kinds of life. Physical and Spiritual. What other “kind of life” does the Bible talk about other than the life we are given in the flesh when we are born of the flesh, and eternal life which we are given when we are born of the Spirit? There is no other “kind of life” taught about in the Bible. When a man is born of the eternal Spirit, by the eternal Word of God, he is given eternal life. A man is regenerated when He is made alive with Jesus Christ (Eph. 2:5). Can a man be “made alive with Jesus Christ” apart from having Jesus Christ dwelling in him? Also, Paul explicitly states, “You are not in the flesh but in the Spirit IF THE SPIRIT OF GOD DWELL IN YOU. And if any man HAVE NOT THE SPIRIT OF CHRIST HE IS NONE OF HIS.” (Rom. 8:9). We are born again THROUGH THE RESURRECTION OF JESUS CHRIST FROM THE DEAD (1Peter 1:3). Can a man be born again through the resurrection of Jesus Christ before Jesus Christ actually rose again from the dead? No so Jesus in John 3 was not talking about spiritual life in the OT but the promise of the Spirit that would come at Pentecost when His spirit would be poured out upon all who believe in Him and become born again children of God from the preaching of the gospel and receiving Him as Lord.

1 Peter 1:3
Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

1 Peter 1:23
For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.

James 1:18
He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we would be a kind of firstfruits of His creation.

Titus 3:5
He saved us, not by the righteous deeds we had done, but according to His mercy, through the washing of new birth and renewal by the Holy Spirit

John 1:12-13
Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believe in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God

No one was born again until Pentecost
period. The disciples were not born again until Pentecost. Jesus taught and told them to tarry until Pentecost when the Holy Spirit would be with them and IN THEM. Not before Pentecost. It was at that time when they would be transformed inwardly by the power of the Holy Spirit working in them and through them. As Jesus told them it is better for you that I go away and send the Helper/Comforter who would lead them and guide them into all truth and bring to them remembrance of everything he had taught them. Until Pentecost they were still in hiding and fearful, carnal and in the flesh, not in the Spirit.

The disciples did not understand the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus which is the gospel. They did not believe it until they physically saw Jesus Resurrected from the dead.

Matthew 16:8-11
Aware of their discussion, Jesus asked, “You of little faith, why are you talking among yourselves about having no bread? 9 Do you still not understand? Don’t you remember the five loaves for the five thousand, and how many basketfuls you gathered? 10 Or the seven loaves for the four thousand, and how many basketfuls you gathered? 11 How is it you don’t understand that I was not talking to you about bread?

Mark 7:18
And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, itcannot defile him;

Mark 8:31-33
He then began to teach them that the Son of Man must suffer many things and be rejected by the elders, the chief priests and the teachers of the law, and that he must be killed and after three days rise again. 32 He spoke plainly about this, and Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him. 33 But when Jesus turned and looked at his disciples, he rebuked Peter. “Get behind me, Satan!” he said. “You do not have in mind the concerns of God, but merely human concerns.”

Luke 9:43-45
While everyone was marveling at all that Jesus did, he said to his disciples, 44 “Listen carefully to what I am about to tell you: The Son of Man is going to be delivered into the hands of men.” 45 But they did not understand what this meant. It was hidden from them, so that they did not grasp it, and they were afraid to ask him about it.

Jesus predicts His death a 3rd time

Luke 18:31-34

Jesus took the Twelve aside and told them, “We are going up to Jerusalem, and everything that is written by the prophets about the Son of Man will be fulfilled. 32 He will be delivered over to the Gentiles. They will mock him, insult him and spit on him; 33 they will flog him and kill him. On the third day he will rise again.” 34 The disciples did not understand any of this. Its meaning was hidden from them, and they did not know what he was talking about.


Luke 24:25-26

He said to them, “How foolish you are, and how slow to believe all that the prophets have spoken! 26 Did not the Messiah have to suffer these things and then enter his glory?

John 7:39
By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive. Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified.

John 12:16
At first His disciples did not understand these things, but after Jesus was glorified they remembered what had been done to Him, and they realized that these very things had also been written about Him.

John 13
Jesus replied, “You do not realize now what I am doing, but later you will understand…. I am telling you now before it happens, so that when it does happen you will believe that I am who I am.”

Jesus promised the disciples He would bring to their remembrance when Pentecost came and the Holy Spirit would be in them and guide them into all truth.

John 14:26
But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you

John 16:7
"It is expedient for you that I go away; for if I go not away the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart I will send him unto you."

John 16:13
But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.

hope this helps !!!
Did not read it all - yet- and the Born-Again exposure is GREAT

One BAD apple = you stated that men could not be regenerated in OT times/era.
OT scripture says; some men were regenerated in the OT era but they did not have the Baptism in/of the Holy Spirit

Regeneration occurs in a man's heart when God calls them and CIRCUMCISES their heart unto Salvation in the WORD

And all these, having obtained a good testimony through faith, did not receive the promise,
God having provided something better for us, that they should not be made perfect apart from us.
 
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Personally I'm a cessationist if you know what that means. Even in the N.T. it wasn't a requirement but a gift. And everyone has different gifts from the Holy Spirit to build up the body of Christ.
lol my BROTHER = if you have "gifts from the Holy Spirit" then you are NOT a "cessationist"

Always remember that we can laugh TOGETHER, which is completely different from laughing at each other
 
@civic @Grace ambassador

Deuteronomy 30: 6 - And the Lord your God will circumcise your heart and the heart of your descendants, to love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul, that you may live.

Jeremiah 4:4
For thus says the Lord to the men of Judah and Jerusalem:
“Break up your fallow ground,
And do not sow among thorns.
Circumcise yourselves to the Lord,
And take away the foreskins of your hearts,

You men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem

Psalm 16
Preserve[ me, O God, for in You I put my trust.
O my soul, you have said to the Lord,
“You are my Lord,
My goodness is nothing apart from You.”
As for the (OT) saints who are on the earth,
“They are the excellent ones, in whom is all my delight.
"

For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh; but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit,
not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God.
 
Meaning the sign gifts only have ceased

Please keep these as our Top Priority = we are TOGETHER in CHRIST by One Spirit

There is ONLY ONE TRUTH = John 17:17 = "Thy word is Truth.................Sanctify them in thy TRUTH"

The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of TRUTH = what HE says in the Scriptures MUST be believed or we can fall into DIVISION which God hates

Context is NOT the Holy Spirit but it is a historical account as well as a parameter of framework of SUBJECT but not LIMITED to it.

With these eternal Scriptural Rules set forth by the FATHER/SON/HOLY SPIRIT we MUST discover if 'cessation of gifts' is of God or if it is another error from a heart of unbelief against "It is written".

Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively applied to myself and Apollos for your sakes,
so that in us you may learn
not to exceed what is written,
so that no one of you will become
arrogant in behalf of one against the other.

God has MANDATED/COMMANDED this to @civic @Grace ambassador @DavidTree @Administrator and the Body of Christ
 
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